Tag: Andre Sayles

LGBTQ+, Police

Interim Police Chief Andre Sayles Says He Won’t Be Barnes 2.0: “I’m All About Collaboration”

By Erica C. Barnett

Last week, after negotiating a minimum $741,000 settlement package with former police chief Shon Barnes, Mayor Katie Wilson announced she would be appointing one of Barnes’ two deputy chiefs, Andre Sayles, as interim police chief while the city begins a formal search and hiring process for the next permanent chief.

Barnes recruited Sayles last year from his job as police chief in Beloit, WI, about an hour south of Madison, where Barnes was previously chief. Like Barnes, Sayles has a family home in Illinois, a few miles outside Beloit (Barnes’ family home is in Chicago). where his wife continues to live; his kids also live in the area. His Washington state home, which he describes as his primary residence, is in east King County.

PubliCola sat down with Sayles at SPD headquarters last Friday for a conversation about the future of SPD, how his style and priorities differ from Barnes’, the culture at SPD, and more. I’ve edited our conversation for length and clarity.

Erica C, Barnett (PubliCola): Barnes recruited you to come to Seattle. You’ve mentioned that you’re personal friends. I’m curious why you decided to say yes to the interim chief job, given the circumstances of his departure and the fact that you’re so closely linked with him.

Andre Sayles: I never knew [Barnes] before January 2021. He came to my swearing-in April 2021 when I became police chief [in Beloit], and we kept in contact with each other professionally and developed a friendship personally after that. So when he presented [the Seattle deputy chief position] to me, I said, you know, I know I can be successful here. I can bring my personal touch to it, being a human first, and not being a chief or anything like that, and treating people with dignity and respect, not just inside the police department, but in the community as well. So I said, hey, let’s take this challenge because, you know, challenges help you grow.

PubliCola: What have you learned so far about the differences between policing in a small town like Beloit and a larger city like Seattle?

Sayles: I think sometimes it gets lost in the wording of ‘small’ that Beloit is a very diverse community. We dealt with a lot. There was a time where we were averaging anywhere between 10 and 12 homicides a year, for a city that’s anywhere between 38 and 40,000 people. That’s a lot of work for a quote-unquote small town. I truly believe policing is transferable. My skills and ability can go anywhere in this nation. As a patrol officer, I led homicide investigations. I led the drug and gang unit. It’s [a matter of] scaling your knowledge and skills to where you’re at.

PubliCola: Do you think that SPD has been doing that? Chief Barnes was doing a lot of community meetings, but they weren’t very well attended by actual community members. Will you change anything about how SPD does community outreach?

Sayles: Well, I think we have to remember if there’s 25 people in that meeting, sometimes people talk to 10 other people. So we are reaching people. But it’s a matter of getting more seats filled, more people to come to those meetings. And I think when we leave, we should provide a challenge to our community members: Hey, next time we have this meeting, bring two people with you. Because we want to hear from everyone that’s in this specific community. And let’s continue to do it, because I don’t want it to be a situation where we don’t show up.

But I would be happy if we showed up to a place and there was one person there, because that’s one person that’s dedicated to what we want to do for that community. Then that person is going to say, ‘Hey, they showed up five times. They’re committed to community policing.’

PubliCola: The city’s annual budget discussions are coming up, and there’s been a debate over whether SPD will slow down police hiring to stay within its budget. Can you talk about that possibility?

Sayles: I don’t know if we’re going to slow down, but we’re going to look at some steps to make sure that we’re able to get officers on the street in a timely manner. We may hire the same amount of people, but we may say, ‘All right, let’s take a two-three week break from hiring.’ So we can get people through the field training program, get them through [Basic Law Enforcement Academy], get them through post-BLEA, and then say, ‘All right, now let’s hire a certain amount of people.’ So it’s going to be a collective effort with our recruitment and retention team, and also the mayor’s office, to say, What does that look like? Let’s come up with a plan to say we’re going to hire X amount of officers during [each] quarter. That’s going to help the patrol staffing numbers and give that work-life balance back to our patrol officers to make sure that they can utilize their time away and be with their families.

PubliCola: To talk about the money, though, SPD will likely be over budget this year because you’re hiring more people than anticipated. There’s a huge budget deficit. Mayor Wilson has asked every department, including yours, to come up with very significant potential cuts. Is SPD going to cut its budget or resist taking any cuts?

Sayles: I think our biggest thing right now is to leave the people out of what we may put forward on the budget, because we want people, There’s some things that we may look at. Like—do we need to buy new chairs every year, or can we come up with a rotation for equipment for offices and things that nature, being very cognizant of the budget and being good stewards of the budget, and creating a roadmap and a plan within SPD, presenting it to the mayor’s office, presenting it to council members, and saying ‘This is what we’re committed to do.’ I think that’s what we’re going to do. We’ve been working diligently on that as an executive command staff team. I would like to bring in our captains and say, ‘What do you see in your precincts? What do you see in your unit?’ and have a group session on these things.

PubliCola: I saw that CARE Department Chief Amy Barden posted a photo of the two of you on Instagram this morning. In the past, she’s expressed some frustration about CARE not being authorized to respond to the kind of calls they were set up to respond to. Have you sat down with her and talked about her concerns? And will we see any changes with the relationship between SPD and CARE going forward?

Sayles: I met with Amy twice over the seven days I’ve been interim chief. I met Amy at a community meeting last year, where there was a situation that required CARE, and we co-responded to that situation together.

PubliCola: What was the situation?

Sayles: Then-mayor Bruce Harrell was at a Safeway talking [at an event promoting a food access initiative], and a gentleman was yelling and screaming. And we went over and we calmed down that situation together. So it’s going to be a new approach, because my ideas are similar to Chief Barnes, but they’re somewhat different, and my relationship with Amy is going to be different than Chief Barnes because I’m a different person. I’m a person that that is all about collaboration. Not saying that Chief Barnes was not, but I’m just talking about me specifically.

We’ve had a good conversation over the last week about some of the things that we want to do. So it’s bringing in SPD, bringing CARE to the table, bringing in Fire, bringing in the mayor’s office. And prior to us leaving the room, everybody agreeing that this is what we’re going to do, bringing in [the Seattle Police Officers Guild] and saying, ‘Hey, this is what we’re looking at,’ and putting a lock on that door before we leave, and everybody can walk out saying, ‘I like the collective idea that we came up with together.’

PubliCola: I want to ask a question about the Bite of Seattle shooting. I understand that you’re not going to be able to provide specific information, but there’s been a feeling of lost trust because there’s just still no new information coming out about what happened. What can you tell me about what’s going on with the investigation and why we don’t know anything yet?

Sayles: It’s one of those roadblocks in policing that some day, hopefully, we can get past in regards to the information that we can provide. I think the biggest thing is when we provide information, sometimes it gives that person that we may be looking for the idea and the advance knowledge of, ‘Oh, they know who I am.’ And we unfortunately sometimes have to keep that close to the vest because we have to proceed in our investigation with caution, and say, ‘We have this information. We can’t fully give it out to the community yet because, unfortunately, sometimes people help these suspects in these situations. I had a great talk with our investigators yesterday. Hopefully, in the coming days and coming weeks, there’s some things that’s going to happen that we will be able to talk about.

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PubliCola: I want to talk a little bit about the culture at SPD, which has been criticized as misogynist and anti-LGBTQ. Under former chief Barnes, there were a lot of problematic incidents and missed opportunities, including the way SPD handled the [anti-trans] Mayday USA rally last year. Do you think there’s room for improvement in SPD’s relationship with LGBTQ+ residents, and how will your  approach differ from Barnes’?

Sayles: People have identified that I came from outside, but I was actually a part of [SPD’s] LGBTQ+ Advisory Board until taking the interim position. I hadn’t seen anything in my 13, 14 months that would lead me to believe that’s what occurred. But I can’t be ignorant to what has been put out there and what has been said. So I want to strengthen that relationship. I think we’re making inroads to strengthen that relationship.

I know in July we had a meeting where there was a person that was trying to disrupt the meeting, and everyone in that group, from what I heard, actually was like, ‘Hey, the police are here. They’ve been here. They’ve been supportive of what we’re trying to do. Like, you can’t come in here and try to disrupt this meeting. And we’re developing a great relationship with the police department.’ I think it’s all about relationships and understanding that the things happened in the past, we have to be aware of it, but we also need to move past it and work on strengthening that relationship beyond some of the missteps that happened in the past. 

PubliCola: I’ve heard some critics and commentators say that the next permanent police chief needs be someone with roots in this community who rose up through the ranks at SPD, as opposed to someone who comes from elsewhere, like yourself. What do you think of that critique?

Sayles: I hope that we get a leader that wants to be involved in the community, someone that’s going to lead this department for our people inside this police department and outside this police department, not leading because you want a certain title. I think that’s the biggest thing, and that’s what it should be—a person that’s going to look at what SPD stands for: Service, pride, and dedication. If it’s a person from the inside, by all means, let’s go forward and be great. If it’s a person from outside, let’s forward, let’s go forward and be great.

PubliCola:  Are you applying?

Sayles: I have not had an opportunity to take a second to even think about that. It’s been a long week, and as things start to slow down for me a little bit. I think I’ll take a glance at it. But once again, I’m more focused on the people inside this police department—how can I help them?—and then also on our community members. I’m a person that’s selfless. I don’t really talk about myself and what I’ve done, and here’s this accolade or that accolade. I’m all about the people, and I’m all about a we mentality instead of a me mentality. So, if I decide to put in for it, I’ll decide to put in for it. But I haven’t thought about that because I’m focused on what we need to accomplish now.

PubliCola: Like Barnes, you still have a home in Illinois. What is your long-term plan, as far as moving to this area permanently versus keeping a home out of state?

Sayles: My home is in the Issaquah area. My secondary residence that I worked hard for is in Illinois. I asked the mayor when we talked, I said, ‘I just want to know that I have a place here in Seattle. Whenever there’s a permanent decision made, I would like to remain here.’ I came here because I believe my higher power put me here for a reason, and that is to be a leader within whatever role I have here at SPD.

I think I have shown that I’ve been very involved with our rank and file. I’ve been involved in our professional staff, and I’m getting myself out there in the community more than I have over the last year. I’ve been involved in the community, but now I want to be more involved in the community. And this is a place that I chose to come to. I uprooted myself to come out here because I believed in what the mission and vision was of Seattle before Chief Barnes, during Chief Barnes, and where we’re going to go in the future.

 

City Council, Mayor Wilson, Police

Wilson, New Interim Police Chief Sayles Address Barnes’ Ouster, SPD’s Future

By Erica C. Barnett

This post has been updated to include the information that former chief Barnes is receiving a $700,000 payout to leave the city.

A press conference with Mayor Katie Wilson and new interim Police Chief Andre Sayles revolved, somewhat predictably, around questions about why Wilson didn’t talk to the press sooner both after Sunday’s mass shooting and yesterday, when she finally announced at 3:30 that she had asked for Seattle Police Chief Shon Barnes’ resignation.

Sayles, Barnes’ replacement, was previously the police chief of Beloit, Wisconsin, a small town near the Illinois border. Barnes hired Sayles as his second deputy chief as part of a hiring spree that included several other brand-new executive positions. During the press conference, Sayles confirmed that his family, like Barnes’, lives in Illinois (not Wisconsin, as I previously reported); property records indicate they live in a town called Belvidere, just across the Wisconsin border.

“I do frequently go back to visit my family, probably about every eight weeks or so, but my wife spends most of her time out here with me” at a second home in East King County, Sayles said. “We’re looking to make this our home. It’s our area that we can retire from one day. But right now, we have kids that we need to get settled, and one day we’ll make this area our home.”

Wilson emphasized the need for the next permanent police chief to live here full-time and be part of the Seattle community. Unlike Harrell, who appointed Barnes with no public process, Wilson said she’ll appoint a search committee “that reflects the full diversity of Seattle to conduct “a meaningful engagement process.”

Reporters, including many TV reporters who spent much of yesterday fuming about the lack of information from the mayor’s office, also asked why the mayor was firing a chief who’s popular with so many current council members.

Five council members issued statements (and several did interviews) yesterday excoriating the mayor for firing Barnes. Four of the five (Rob Saka, Joy Hollingsworth, Maritza Rivera, Bob Kettle, and Debora Juarez) are centrists elected as a bloc in 2023 and most explicitly supported Harrell over Wilson last year. (Juarez, who described herself as an “elected leader” in an interview with KOMO, declined to run for reelection in 2023 and was appointed last year to replace Cathy Moore, a member of the Class of 2023 who quit less than a year and a half into her term).

Asked about the council’s opposition to her decision, Wilson said, “As the executive of the city, I do have a different window into our police department,” adding that she was confident that she made the right decision.

As I reported yesterday, one reason police took so long to release information about Sunday’s shooting was that the police chief, who spent much of his time out of town and whose family lives in Chicago, was at a conference in Dallas. Barnes reportedly wanted to be briefed on the shooting before he would allow SPD assistant chief Tyrone Davis to brief the press, who had gathered at the scene of the shooting and spent hours irritably standing around waiting for information on the shooting.

Wilson has not directly explained the reason for yesterday’s delay in releasing information. However, my own reporting indicates that Barnes did not agree to a settlement until late afternoon—a full day after rumors that he had been fired began swirling.

Barnes will receive a settlement of $700,000—about two years’ annual salary—as part of his agreement to step down. Wilson wouldn’t say how much he’ll receive; I’ve filed a records request for that information.

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I was able to confirm that Barnes gets to keep the entire $50,000 “lateral hiring bonus” he and several of his new staff received when Harrell hired him, a story I broke last August. The city approved the lateral hiring bonus during what Harrell and most of the city council claimed was a police hiring “crisis,” and it was designed explicitly to recruit “new police officers”—not top executives—from other police departments. Under the law, any officer who receives the bonus and doesn’t remain at the city for five years has to pay the bonus back on a pro-rated basis, so Barnes has received an exemption from that requirement.

Although the mayor declined to elaborate on why she gave Barnes the boot, it’s clear that his temperament and frequent travel out of town, both to his family home in Chicago and to conferences around the country, were factors in the decision. Barnes was also reportedly unpopular with many rank and file officers, and gave short shrift to the CARE Team, a group of social workers created to respond to 911 crisis calls that don’t require police. Barnes did not meet with CARE Department Chief Amy Barden for more than a year, and CARE has been hamstrung since last year by a police union contract that restricts what kind of calls they can respond to.

In searching for a new chief, Wilson said, she’ll be looking for a person “who can earn the respect of our police force while also leading needed changes to culture and protocol in a way that’s firm and fair. I will be looking for someone who can practice clear communication in stressful situations. I will be looking for someone who is consistently present in Seattle, keeping travel to an appropriate minimum, and who also ensures that when they are away, there is sufficient SPD leadership in town to guide our city from any emergency.” Wilson also name-checked the CARE Team, saying she wants a police chief “who understands the value of our alternative crisis response system, our CARE and fire departments, and our service providers.”

We discussed Barnes’ ouster, which was still unconfirmed at the time we recorded, on this week’s edition of Seattle Nice, and will be doing another episode over the weekend, so stay tuned.

Mayor Wilson

Police Chief Shon Barnes is Out, His Deputy Andre Sayles Will Serve as Interim Chief

 

By Erica C. Barnett

After a silence of nearly 24 hours, Mayor Katie Wilson announced at 3:30 this afternoon that Police Chief Shon Barnes has resigned and will be replaced on an interim basis by one of his two deputies, Andre Sayles.

Wilson asked for Barnes’ resignation yesterday, but discussions over how much he will receive in severance did not conclude until late this afternoon, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

In an interview late Thursday afternoon, Wilson told PubliCola, “Last night, we agreed [on Barnes’ resignation] at a very high level and needed some extra time to make sure that we were entirely on the same page about the path forward and how we were rolling it out. And in addition, we had to figure out interim leadership for the department. So there were a lot of details and moving pieces that needed to be settled before it was appropriate to make a public statement.”

PubliCola reported on the mayor’s decision last night.

Barnes’ family lives at their home in Chicago while he rents an apartment here, and he has been under fire recently for his frequent absences from the city. Those absences have included trips around the country to conferences as well as trips home to see his family in Chicago. PubliCola first reported on Barnes’ heavy travel schedule last July, and was the first to report that he was out of town, at a conference in Dallas, when a mass shooting took place at Seattle center on Sunday.

When South Seattle Emerald reporter Connor Nash asked Barnes about my reporting on his absences, the police chief lashed out, telling Nash “no, you listen to me!” before he was hustled away, still sputtering, by his chief of staff Alex Ricketts.

Asked if Barnes’ outsize reaction to a reporter’s question about his schedulewas a factor in her decision to ditch the chief, Wilson said, “there were multiple factors and considerations that informed the conversation that the chief and I had that led to this call, and obviously, how Sunday unfolded and the aftermath was part of that, but not certainly not the only thing. I don’t believe I’m someone who acts rashly, and there were multiple considerations in this decision.”

Sayles’ family, like Barnes’, lives outside the state—in Illinois, just across the border from Beloit, WI, a small town where Sayles was police chief before Barnes appointed him deputy chief in Seattle. We’ve requested his schedule to see how much time he has spent with his family in Illinois. Asked if she was concerned about hiring another chief whose family home is out of state, Wilson said, “I want to emphasize that this is an interim role, and also that Deputy Chief Sayles understands the importance of presence in Seattle during this interim period.” (Editor’s note: This post originally said Sayles’ family home is in Wisconsin; we’ve updated the post to reflect that they live in Illinois.)

City council members have criticized the mayor’s decision, which leaves the police department without permanent leadership during an active investigation of a major shooting incident and with one potential suspect still at large. City council members were quick to criticize the decision, with Rob Saka and Maritza Rivera criticizing the decision before it was official on Thursday. A majority of the council has reportedly expressed disapproval of the decision, according to sources familiar with the council’s reaction.

Progressive Councilmember Alexis Mercedes Rinck expressed frustration with the lack of information from the mayor’s office, saying in a statement, “I am disappointed that I found out about the possible dismissal of Chief Barnes from reports on social media last night and did not receive any update or information about this development from the Mayor or Mayor’s Office until mid-morning today. Chief Barnes’ recent interactions with press have been concerning, but I have yet to receive an explanation of what decisions have or haven’t been made, or full rationale behind why any decision has been made.”

Wilson said she gets that “many of the council members strongly disagree with the path that we’re on with this decision” but dismissed the idea that they would try to block her when it comes time to appoint a new permanent chief. “I believe that moving forward, we will be able to work together to select an excellent candidate for our next chief.”

Barnes issued a statement Thursday evening, which read in part, “Dr. Barnes is a long-time law enforcement leader known for establishing a culture of excellence and procedural justice within the departments he has led and the communities he has served. He brought the same steadfast leadership and professionalism to the City of Seattle that has defined his law enforcement career, which resulted in a substantial reduction in the city’s crime rates and an important vision for further reduction in the years to come.” Barnes, who has not typically used the title “doctor” while serving as police chief, has a Ph.D. in Leadership Studies from North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University.

On Thursday afternoon, reporters swarmed the lobby of City Hall, doing standups at 4pm waiting around all day for interviews and information.  Wilson gave one-on-one interviews to a handful of reporters (Publicola’s is supposed to happen at 4), which prompted those left downstairs, including TV reporters who have hounded Wilson and blamed her for inaccurate information and delays in the hours and days after the shooting. Cameramen and reporters could be heard grousing about the differential treatment; Wilson plans to hold a general press conference at 11:00 tomorrow morning.

“I understand the frustration and the desire for information, and in this case, I don’t think that was avoidable,” Wilson said.

Interim Chief Sayles, like Assistant Chief Nicole Powell and Barnes himself, accepted a $50,000 hiring bonus intended to recruit experienced rank and file police officers from other departments during what police described as a hiring crisis. The terms of the bonus require officers to return the money, on a prorated basis, if they serve less than five years. We’ve reached out to the mayor’s office to find out whether Barnes will have to return his bonus.