Category: LGBTQ+

homelessness, King County, LGBTQ+, Mayor Wilson, Police, public safety

This Week On PubliCola: Katie Wilson is Jimmy Carter, Key Shelter Provider Closes Abruptly, SPD Delayed Information on Shooting

Inside a Pallet shelter.
Inside a Pallet shelter.

By Erica C. Barnett

Monday, August 31

Poll Tests Anti-Density Messages

A new poll sponsored by groups like Tree Action Seattle and Seattle Residents for Responsible Growth tested out messages opposing the city’s comprehensive plan update (currently tied up in litigation), which would allow modest density increases in areas directly adjacent to existing frequent transit stops and small commercial areas.

Mayor Wilson Does Damage Control

Less than a day before we published our story about interim Police Chief Andre Sayles’ complaint against a detective who spoke at a pro-LGBTQ event, Mayor Katie Wilson assured the city’s LGBTQ Commission that the complaint was less significant than it turned out to be, angering some commissioners.

Ron Davis Has Another Anti-Stranger Manifesto

Former legislative candidate Ron Davis just won’t let the Stranger’s decision to endorse a different candidate go. In a 3,300-word email, he told campaign supporters he has a plan to neutralize the power of the paper’s endorsements, which he called corrupt and oligarchical.

Tuesday, September 1

Greater Seattle: Katie Wilson is to Jimmy Carter as Zohran Mamdani is to Barack Obama

In this week’s edition of his column, Josh says Katie Wilson has a Jimmy Carter problem—unlike NYC Mayor Zohran Mamdani, she hasn’t dazzled the media with her charisma (and yes, the fact that he’s a he and she’s a she is a factor). Plus, some plaudits for a rare win for affordable homeownership in Seattle.

Wednesday, September 2

King County Assessor Wilson Misused County Resources Amid Stalking and Harassment Allegations: Report

A report from the King County ombuds office concluded that King County Assessor John Arthur Wilson misused county resources to negotiate a lease for a vacation home, violate a domestic-violence protection order, attempt to get the sheriff to visit his ex’s home, and set up campaign meetings to do damage control amid negative media coverage of the allegations against him. Wilson has been ordered to pay a $20,000 fine for the violations.

Thursday, September 3

Pallet, Company That Built Just-Opened Interbay Shelter, Closes Abruptly

Pallet, a nine-year-old company that produced utilitarian individual shelter units, went out of business suddenly this week. The company partnered on the city’s latest modular shelter in Interbay, and was expected to be a key player in Mayor Katie Wilson’s ongoing shelter expansion push.

Friday, September 4

Mayor Wilson Says City Will Improve Crisis Communications In Wake of Shooting

In response to a communications breakdown after a shooting at Seattle Center in late July, Mayor Wilson announced changes she says will improve public access to information during future public safety emergencies. In the future, the city plans to release information within an hour of an incident whenever possible, and push information out on Alert Seattle, an opt-in app. Additionally, no more than three members of SPD’s executive staff can be out of town at a time—during the shooting, the police chief and both of his deputy chiefs were in other cities.

Messages Show SPD Primarily Responsible for Information Gap After Bite of Seattle Shooting

Hundreds of pages of Teams and text messages released by the mayor’s office on Friday reveal that almost all of the delay in disseminating information about the Bite of Seattle shooting resulted because SPD failed to update the public after an initial, alarming X post immediately after the shooting. Mayor Wilson’s office was indecisive about whether to send her to the scene of the shooting (ultimately doing so under media pressure), but her absence, and a brief wait for other elected officials to arrive, did not significantly contribute to the delay, and messages show her team repeatedly and unsuccessfully urging SPD to let the public know what was going on.

Density, Elections, LGBTQ+, Mayor Wilson, Media, Police, Uncategorized

Poll Tests Anti-Density Messages, Mayor Wilson Does Damage Control, and Ron Davis Has Another Anti-Stranger Manifesto
Source: Fulcrum Strategy Group poll

1. A recent messaging poll by a group calling itself the “Green Neighborhoods Coalition” tested talking points against Mayor Katie Wilson’s proposal to finally get moving on the the Seattle Comprehensive Plan, which has been mired in appeals for more than a year. Activists who oppose the plan claim that allowing modest new apartment buildings in and around Seattle’s suburban-style single-family enclaves will “deforest” Seattle, result in the deaths of orcas and salmon, and lead to untold environmental devastation.

The comprehensive plan, which has been pushed back repeatedly since early 2023, epitomizes the concept of “endless delay”—or the “Seattle Process,” if you prefer.

The poll, conducted by Fulcrum Strategy Group (the same pollster behind recent Chamber and Challenge Seattle polls), describes Mayor Katie Wilson’s “taller, denser, faster” approach to the comprehensive plan neutrally, as a series of zoning changes designed “to more quickly address Seattle’s affordable housing crisis by supporting faster development of apartments and condos across Seattle with a particular focus on greater density transit corridors.”

Then, it tests detailed negative messages among people who say they support “a more deliberate approach” to development, including the argument that building more housing will destroy “parks, trees, and greenways”; that the approach “shortchanges climate resiliency” by “ignoring” climate change and “long-term environmental resiliency”; and that (finally) moving forward on the comp plan is a way of “cutting corners, taking shortcuts, excluding community voices, and trying to rush a decision.”

Andrew Thibault, the co-founder of Fulcrum, said the Green Neighborhoods Coalition’s messaging was not “NIMBY/anti-density.”

Editor’s note: This post originally said that the Seattle Parks Foundation was “the group behind” the Green Neighborhoods Coalition. They are the Green Neighborhoods Coalition’s fiscal sponsor, not a direct funder. We regret the error.

2. Less than a day before we published our story about interim Police Chief Andre Sayles’ complaint against a detective who spoke at a pro-LGBTQ event, Mayor Katie Wilson was at a meeting of the city’s LGBTQ Commission, doing a bit of preemptive damage control. At the time of the Thursday night meeting, Wilson’s office still had not responded to our questions for the story we published the following morning.

According to three commission members, and as reported by Seattle Gay News, Wilson and a staffer told the commission our story was basically toothless—specifically, that Sayles had only asserted that the detective, Beth Wareing, represented herself as an SPD detective in violation of orders not to do so. Wilson explained the issue as a “procedural” problem rather than a serious overstep by Sayles, one commissioner said, and let the commission know the case had been dismissed.

Not only did Wareing not mention her affiliation with SPD at the No Hate in WA State press conference, this was not the most incendiary allegation Sayles made against her. He also alleged that she lied about what two anti-LGBTQ initiatives would do, which would be a violation of SPD’s policy against dishonesty and a fireable offense that could have ended Wareing’s career. (She retired rather than continuing at SPD after a sabbatical as the direct result of Sayles’ unfounded complaint). According to OPA, Sayles’ claims against Wareing risked violating her right to free speech.

Jessa Davis, the co-chair of the LGBTQ Commission, said she was most concerned that Sayles seems to have taken right-wing podcaster Brandi Kruse at her word that Wareing lied about what the initiatives would do. Kruse, Davis said, is a “political activist who has publicly advocated in support of these ballot initiatives that the detective was speaking against.” In fact, she’s being investigated by the state Public Disclosure Commission for her advocacy work on behalf of the initiative sponsor Let’s Go Washington, which the PDC calls an in-kind contribution.

“We’ve seen SPD officers engage in political expression before, including statements that many people in Seattle and in the 2SLGBTQIA+ community find deeply troubling,” Davis said, pointing to the double standard that allows SPD officers to express right-wing viewpoints freely. “If we’re going to protect the officers’ rights to political expression, then the rules have to be applied consistently.”

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Wilson’s office said they didn’t have complete information about Sayles’ allegations when they spoke to the LGBTQ+ Commission, and that they were trying to be “transparent and provide them with information” before PubliCola’s story went up. “It was meant to be a high-level heads up, not an attempt to minimize the story or explain it away,” a spokesperson said. “In part, the briefing was for Mayor Wilson to express her expectation that Chief Sayles would be an inclusive leader.”

According to the spokesperson, Wilson had only read the closed case summary about the complaint, which did not include most of the information we reported, when she addressed our story at the meeting.

“The Mayor had only received very high-level information about the case,” and was “actively working with OPA to obtain additional documentation. We believed it was important for us to share with the community the limited information we had received.”

Some commission members, however, left the meeting feeling reassured that Sayles had done nothing serious, and that PubliCola’s story was about a minor incident that fizzled—rather than a serious complaint that led a 30-year detective to leave the department in frustration and disgust.

3. Ron Davis, the former 46th District legislative candidate who ran as an urbanist alternative to state Rep. Gerry Pollet, sent out yet another 3,300-word manifesto to his supporters last week, this one all about the Stranger and its failure to endorse him. In Davis’ mind, this decision was not based on the paper’s actual assessment of him and his candidacy, because that process would have obviously led them to endorse Davis over Will Dreher, the other candidate in the race.

Instead, Davis’ theory is that the “oligarchs” who bought the Stranger (and got rid of three staffers Davis preferred to the current staff) 1) forced the editorial board to endorse Dreher after voting for Davis and 2) maybe (?) told the union that represents Stranger workers to write a statement saying that the board really did prefer Dreher, not Davis, which Davis argues is impossible without interference by publisher Brady Walkinshaw, who knows Dreher. (He also knows Davis, by the way, and endorsed him personally for city council in 2023.)

Assuring readers that he “consulted heavily with two STEM PhDs” in his analysis, Davis spins out a theory in which the Stranger’s endorsement is “always decisive” for lefty candidates, across “hundreds” of past elections, and that there is a knowable, specific “Stranger bump” that applies to all of those candidates, and which Davis should have rightly received.

The whole tendentious essay is almost a textbook definition of correlation-causation confusion, all leading up to Davis’ argument that the new, crowdsourced “Lefty Cheat Sheet” can be a viable alternative to the Stranger’s endorsements, whose “buyout and behavior” have “dismayed and betrayed” its readers.

Candidates are often pissed that they don’t get endorsements. Davis is the first one I can recall who has turnsd a grudge against the Stranger into a proto-crusade against the paper’s endorsements in general. The truth, as Josh argued last week, is almost certainly much more banal—the Stranger met Davis, and they weren’t impressed by him. That should lead to self-reflection, not a multi-volume conspiracy theory.

4. We discussed a counter-complaint against Sayles, KCRHA’s handling of recent layoffs, and Davis’ post-election meltdown on last week’s episode of Seattle Nice—give it a listen if you haven’t already!

LGBTQ+, Police

Police Accountability Office Investigating Retaliation Complaint Against Interim Police Chief

The investigation comes after the Office of Police Accountability said any “further investigation” of Sayles’ complaint against a detective who spoke at a pro-LGBTQ press conference could violate her constitutional rights and open the city to a lawsuit. 

By Erica C. Barnett

The city’s Office of Police Accountability is investigating a complaint filed against interim Police Chief Andre Sayles alleging that he retaliated against a detective who spoke at a pro-LGBTQ rally with SPD’s permission last year. The complaint, filed last month, also accuses Sayles of violating SPD’s policy on professionalism.

As PublCola reported exclusively last week, Sayles filed a potentially career-ending OPA complaint against longtime SPD detective Beth Wareing after she spoke at a press conference held by No Hate in WA State. The group is opposing two initiatives that would take away students’ ability to speak in confidence to school counselors and require girls to submit to genital exams to prove they have vaginas before participating in school sports.

Wareing had written permission to speak at the rally as long as she didn’t mention she worked at SPD or purport to represent the views of the department, and she followed those guidelines in her remarks, which lasted roughly three minutes and were available online shortly after the rally.

It’s not uncommon for police to speak publicly on political issues; former police guild president Mike Solan spouted off every week on his incendiary podcast. What is unusual is for police to express left-leaning views. Wareing’s comments got the attention of right-wing podcaster Brandi Kruse, who promptly told SPD Wareing had misrepresented the initiatives when she spoke. At least partly on the basis of Kruse’s claims, Sayles filed his complaint against Wareing, accusing her of disobeying a direct order and being “dishonest in saying inaccurate and untrue things at the press conference.”

OPA, which is housed in the police department, quickly dismissed the complaint, noting that any further investigation would clearly violate Wareing’s right to free speech and open SPD up to a lawsuit. The complaint against Sayles was opened after the investigation into Wareing concluded.

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According to a notice that went to select city officials, including the mayor, city attorney, and Councilmembers Joy Hollingsworth and Bob Kettle last week, the complaint against Sayles “alleges potential violations of department policy relating to retaliation and professionalism by the Interim Chief of Police.”

Since 2022, when the city codified the first formal process for complaints against the police chief, city law has treated complaints against the chief of police differently than complaints against all other officers. Anyone, including OPA itself, can file a complaint against the chief. Once that happens,  OPA decides whether to consider the case and whether to dismiss it as a “contact log” or conduct a full investigation into whether the chief has violated an SPD policy or a law.

Police chief investigations are rare. At the end of 2025, for example, the Office of Inspector General, an independent police accountability office that certifies OPA cases as timely, thorough, and objective, reported two open police chief investigations and 29 cases that were closed without an investigation.

OPA would not comment on the complaint against Sayles, other than to confirm that it exists. But the existence of an investigation itself indicates that the city’s police accountability system is taking the complaint against Sayles seriously. OPA’s findings (and recommended discipline, if any), along with OIG’s review of those findings, will include the agency’s assessment of whether Sayles violated Wareing’s First Amendment rights or retaliated against her for exercising them.

homelessness, King County, LGBTQ+, Mayor Wilson, Police, Privacy

This Week on PubliCola: August 23, 2026
King County’s uncanny AI “trainer”

KCRHA Layoffs Begin, SPD Chief Files Unfounded Complaint Against Detective, Privacy Advocates vs. Surveillance Cameras and More

By Erica C. Barnett

Monday, August 17

Greater Seattle: Junk Fees, Recalling Wilson, and Ron Davis’ Post-Election Fixation

In his latest column, Josh says Katie Wilson is doing what she said she would do—working to make housing more affordable—even though it pisses off people who supported Bruce Harrell, like the North Seattle couple seeking to recall her. And in what turned out to be a very controversial hot take (at least among Ron Davis supporters), Josh calls the former legislative candidate’s 3,000-word newsletter—which spun a conspiracy theory about why the Stranger didn’t endorse him that the Stranger’s union took the trouble to correct—unhinged.

Tuesday, August 18

As KCRHA Begins Layoffs, Union Suggests Cutting Top Executives First

The King County Regional Homelessness Authority is beginning to scale back, as the city and county take over contracts after a damning forensic audit revealed serious financial issues. The initial layoffs reportedly hit some divisions the agency will still need going forward, while protecting top executives. In a blistering letter, the union representing many KCRHA staff said the agency could save more than half a million dollars by eliminating the jobs of CEO Kelly Kinnison and her deputy William Towey.

As Business-Backed Poll Says Most Support Police Surveillance Cameras, Privacy Advocates Raise Security Concerns

A new business-backed poll showed a huge spike in support for police camera surveillance across Seattle—but the questions are worded in such a pro-surveillance way, it’s hard to know how much organic support the poll represents. Meanwhile, privacy advocates who toured SPD’s surveillance HQ said what they learned made them even more concerned that surveillance footage could escape containment and get into the hands of ICE or hackers.

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Thursday, August 20

King County Enlists Uncanny AI Videos for Ethics Training

King County is using what it calls an “innovative tool” to train 4,000 executive branch employees on how to prevent waste, fraud, and misuse of public dollars: A series of short videos in which an uncanny AI avatar recites scripts about various training topics. The county’s IT department produced the videos using a company called Synthesia, which aims its product at small businesses.

Drop in Mayor’s Approval Rating Follows Anti-Wilson Media Frenzy

The Chamber released another poll result this week: Mayor Wilson’s approval rating has dropped to 37 percent. That’s hardly surprising, given that public opinion doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and the media (particularly TV and radio) have spent weeks calling Wilson incompetent, blaming her (and not SPD) for a delay in information after the Bite of Seattle shooting, and relentlessly covering a doomed recall effort against her.

Report: Police Contract Severely Limits CARE Team’s Ability to Do Their Jobs

A report from the city’s Office of Inspector General concluded that the new contract between the city and the Seattle Police Officers Guild (SPOG) drastically limits the ability of the CARE team of civilian first responders to respond to crisis calls. But CARE Chief Amy Barden sees some reason for optimism in the most recent numbers, which show that the team is now responding to more calls than in previous years.

Friday, August 21

Interim Police Chief Sayles Filed Complaint Against Hate Crimes Detective for Speaking At Pro-LGBTQ Rally

Interim police chief Andre Sayles filed a complaint against a longtime SPD detective who spoke out against two right-wing initiatives aimed at LGBTQ kids. The detective had permission to speak at the rally, but after hearing complaints from, among others, right-wing podcaster Brandi Kruse, Sayles claimed she refused to follow his orders and lied about what the initiatives would do—either of which would be a fireable offense. Sayles’ complaint was quickly dismissed (an investigator called it an infringement on the detective’s free speech rights), but the incident led the detective to retire rather than return to work after a sabbatical.

LGBTQ+, Mayor Wilson, Police

Interim Police Chief Sayles Filed Complaint Against Hate Crimes Detective for Speaking At Pro-LGBTQ Rally

“Any further investigation would violate [the detective’s] constitutional rights and open the city to a lawsuit,” an investigator concluded when dismissing Sayles’ complaint.

By Erica C. Barnett

Seattle interim police chief Andre Sayles filed a complaint with the Office of Police Accountability against a veteran detective (and onetime leader of of SPD’s hate crimes unit) over a three-minute speech she gave at a No Hate in WA State rally last November, when Sayles was deputy chief. Sayles accused detective Beth Wareing of failing to follow a lawful order and dishonesty— fireable offenses that could have cost the 29-year police veteran her job, her law enforcement certification, and her ability to testify in court as a police officer.

“In her speech, Det. Wareing made several comments that lacked credible facts related to the potential exposure to sexual assault by adults on youth, especially females and persons who identify as LGBTQ+,” Sayles wrote. “In the attachments, I’ve attached an email along with the video of Det. Wareing speaking.”

The links Sayles provided included two videos by right-wing commentator Brandi Kruse, who attacked Wareing at length on her show on December 11 and December 15, calling her comments “genuinely disgusting.” On the December 11 segment, Kruse said she had contacted SPD about Wareing’s comments and “prayed to God” they would take action against her. Addressing Wareing, Kruse said, “do you really think there is going to be no ramifications for just lying through your teeth as a Seattle police detective?”

Sayles filed his complaint on December 15, the day the second segment ran. The complaint broadly parroted Kruse’s talking points, alleging that Wareing “was insubordinate, violating the guidelines he set out for her, and that she was dishonest in saying inaccurate and untrue things during the press conference,” according to OPA’s summary.

Kruse says she didn’t personally file a complaint against Wareing or talk to Sayles directly. “I made it clear how I felt about her comments on my show,” she said. “A police detective should not be abusing their position to fear monger parents about a topic as serious as sexual abuse. That’s grotesque. I am not surprised there are complaints against her—there should be.”

Investigators who looked into Sayles’ complaint disagreed—and swiftly. On January 8, OPA let the city’s Office of Inspector General, a separate police oversight body, know that they were expediting and dismissing the complaint, finding that Sayles’ claims were unfounded and may have violated Wareing’s right to free speech.

In a memo proposing the dismissal language, OPA noted pointedly that political statements  “are protected free speech and political activity” under state law, legal case law, guidance from the Seattle Ethics and  Elections Commission, and SPD’s own police manual. Wareing, the dismissal continued, “was also not insubordinate as she did in fact follow the guidance she was given” when she sought, and received, explicit permission from Sayles to speak at the rally.

“Any further investigation of [Wareing] would violate her constitutional rights and open the city to a lawsuit,” the memo concluded.

For Wareing, who was on sabbatical pursuing a PhD when she spoke at the rally, the complaint was a shocking attempt to curtail her free speech and smear her after a long career as a hostage negotiator, bias crimes expert, and clinical counselor. As the direct result of the complaint, she said, she decided to retire from SPD and pursue a different career.

“Chief Sayles’s complaint was poorly considered, unprofessional, and an attempted violation of my First Amendment rights,” Wareing told PubliCola. “It was a decisive factor in my decision to retire rather than remain at SPD after sabbatical, ending a career that was my passion for 29 years. This conduct should concern every officer at SPD.”

PubliCola has confirmed that Mayor Katie Wilson knew about Sayles’ complaint against Wareing, and its dismissal, before she chose him as interim chief three weeks ago.

Wareing’s comments at the No Hate rally were a personalized version of the basic talking points against the two anti-LGBTQ initiatives, funded by right-wing billionaire Brian Heywood through his group Let’s Go Washington. No Hate In WA State, known last year as Washington Families for Freedom, argues both initiatives would put children at risk.

The first initiative would give parents access to all their child’s school records, including confidential counseling notes, with no exceptions for parents with histories of abuse. The second would require girls to submit to genital inspections to prove they have vaginas as a condition of participating in sports. Although student athletes are required to have physicals to ensure they can play without injury, there is no genital inspection requirement for girls, nor is any student required to show a doctor their penis or vagina so that schools can categorize them into teams by sex.

Wareing had written authorization from SPD, including direct permission from Sayles, to speak at the event in her own personal capacity, as long as she didn’t say she was representing or worked for SPD, which she did not. In her remarks, Wareing said the two initiatives “serve to stigmatize LGBTQ+ children and put them at greater risk of harassment, assault, abuse at home, homelessness, and death by suicide.”

The anti-trans initiative, Wareing said, “would increase the risk of sexual abuse for girls participating in sports” and “is not something I would put my child through.”

The second initiative, eliminating students’ ability to speak privately with school counselors and staff about sensitive topics, such as gender, abortion, and sexuality, would make abused children especially vulnerable, Wareing continued, “I recall many times teachers and school counselors have been a primary support person for a child at risk, and my heart would be broken for them if they were forced by an unjust law to report a child’s private information, even if it puts a child at risk of injury.”

In an interview with OPA investigators, Sayles admitted that he did not read either of the initiatives he accused his own detective of lying about before filing his complaint, according to OPA’s investigation file.

PubliCola sent Wilson’s office a list of detailed questions on Wednesday, including why she did not consider Sayles’ unfounded complaint against Wareing disqualifying, what Sayles told Wilson when she asked about the complaint, and whether Wilson believed Wareing’s comments were inappropriate

A staffer responded, “We have discussed the investigation with Interim Chief Sayles. He will continue being an inclusive leader, protecting all Seattle residents, workers, and visitors, especially those furthest from social justice, including the trans community. Seattle is a place where everyone should feel safe.”

In response to detailed questions, SPD provided a similar statement, emphasizing that “the employee [Wareing] was cleared of all wrongdoing.” The spokesperson did not mention the finding that Sayles may have violated Wareing’s right to free speech and opened the city up to a lawsuit.

“Since his arrival, Chief Sayles has been a part of the SPD LGBTQ+ committee and remains focused on creating a safe city for all who live, visit, and work in Seattle. He has committed to building community connections to help develop a sense of welcomeness that fosters this safety,” an SPD spokesperson said.

Under Barnes, SPD made a series of unforced errors that alienated many in the city’s LGBTQ community and led to multiple discrimination lawsuits (including one that quotes Barnes’ chief of staff, Alex Ricketts, as saying, “We’re not here for the gays.” SPD has also struggled to hire women under Barnes and is unlikely, at the current rate, to come close to its adopted goal of having a 30 percent female recruit class in the next three years. Wareing, who worked on the 30 x 30 initiative, just became one more female SPD officer on her way out the door.

LGBTQ+, Police

Interim Police Chief Andre Sayles Says He Won’t Be Barnes 2.0: “I’m All About Collaboration”

By Erica C. Barnett

Last week, after negotiating a minimum $741,000 settlement package with former police chief Shon Barnes, Mayor Katie Wilson announced she would be appointing one of Barnes’ two deputy chiefs, Andre Sayles, as interim police chief while the city begins a formal search and hiring process for the next permanent chief.

Barnes recruited Sayles last year from his job as police chief in Beloit, WI, about an hour south of Madison, where Barnes was previously chief. Like Barnes, Sayles has a family home in Illinois, a few miles outside Beloit (Barnes’ family home is in Chicago). where his wife continues to live; his kids also live in the area. His Washington state home, which he describes as his primary residence, is in east King County.

PubliCola sat down with Sayles at SPD headquarters last Friday for a conversation about the future of SPD, how his style and priorities differ from Barnes’, the culture at SPD, and more. I’ve edited our conversation for length and clarity.

Erica C, Barnett (PubliCola): Barnes recruited you to come to Seattle. You’ve mentioned that you’re personal friends. I’m curious why you decided to say yes to the interim chief job, given the circumstances of his departure and the fact that you’re so closely linked with him.

Andre Sayles: I never knew [Barnes] before January 2021. He came to my swearing-in April 2021 when I became police chief [in Beloit], and we kept in contact with each other professionally and developed a friendship personally after that. So when he presented [the Seattle deputy chief position] to me, I said, you know, I know I can be successful here. I can bring my personal touch to it, being a human first, and not being a chief or anything like that, and treating people with dignity and respect, not just inside the police department, but in the community as well. So I said, hey, let’s take this challenge because, you know, challenges help you grow.

PubliCola: What have you learned so far about the differences between policing in a small town like Beloit and a larger city like Seattle?

Sayles: I think sometimes it gets lost in the wording of ‘small’ that Beloit is a very diverse community. We dealt with a lot. There was a time where we were averaging anywhere between 10 and 12 homicides a year, for a city that’s anywhere between 38 and 40,000 people. That’s a lot of work for a quote-unquote small town. I truly believe policing is transferable. My skills and ability can go anywhere in this nation. As a patrol officer, I led homicide investigations. I led the drug and gang unit. It’s [a matter of] scaling your knowledge and skills to where you’re at.

PubliCola: Do you think that SPD has been doing that? Chief Barnes was doing a lot of community meetings, but they weren’t very well attended by actual community members. Will you change anything about how SPD does community outreach?

Sayles: Well, I think we have to remember if there’s 25 people in that meeting, sometimes people talk to 10 other people. So we are reaching people. But it’s a matter of getting more seats filled, more people to come to those meetings. And I think when we leave, we should provide a challenge to our community members: Hey, next time we have this meeting, bring two people with you. Because we want to hear from everyone that’s in this specific community. And let’s continue to do it, because I don’t want it to be a situation where we don’t show up.

But I would be happy if we showed up to a place and there was one person there, because that’s one person that’s dedicated to what we want to do for that community. Then that person is going to say, ‘Hey, they showed up five times. They’re committed to community policing.’

PubliCola: The city’s annual budget discussions are coming up, and there’s been a debate over whether SPD will slow down police hiring to stay within its budget. Can you talk about that possibility?

Sayles: I don’t know if we’re going to slow down, but we’re going to look at some steps to make sure that we’re able to get officers on the street in a timely manner. We may hire the same amount of people, but we may say, ‘All right, let’s take a two-three week break from hiring.’ So we can get people through the field training program, get them through [Basic Law Enforcement Academy], get them through post-BLEA, and then say, ‘All right, now let’s hire a certain amount of people.’ So it’s going to be a collective effort with our recruitment and retention team, and also the mayor’s office, to say, What does that look like? Let’s come up with a plan to say we’re going to hire X amount of officers during [each] quarter. That’s going to help the patrol staffing numbers and give that work-life balance back to our patrol officers to make sure that they can utilize their time away and be with their families.

PubliCola: To talk about the money, though, SPD will likely be over budget this year because you’re hiring more people than anticipated. There’s a huge budget deficit. Mayor Wilson has asked every department, including yours, to come up with very significant potential cuts. Is SPD going to cut its budget or resist taking any cuts?

Sayles: I think our biggest thing right now is to leave the people out of what we may put forward on the budget, because we want people, There’s some things that we may look at. Like—do we need to buy new chairs every year, or can we come up with a rotation for equipment for offices and things that nature, being very cognizant of the budget and being good stewards of the budget, and creating a roadmap and a plan within SPD, presenting it to the mayor’s office, presenting it to council members, and saying ‘This is what we’re committed to do.’ I think that’s what we’re going to do. We’ve been working diligently on that as an executive command staff team. I would like to bring in our captains and say, ‘What do you see in your precincts? What do you see in your unit?’ and have a group session on these things.

PubliCola: I saw that CARE Department Chief Amy Barden posted a photo of the two of you on Instagram this morning. In the past, she’s expressed some frustration about CARE not being authorized to respond to the kind of calls they were set up to respond to. Have you sat down with her and talked about her concerns? And will we see any changes with the relationship between SPD and CARE going forward?

Sayles: I met with Amy twice over the seven days I’ve been interim chief. I met Amy at a community meeting last year, where there was a situation that required CARE, and we co-responded to that situation together.

PubliCola: What was the situation?

Sayles: Then-mayor Bruce Harrell was at a Safeway talking [at an event promoting a food access initiative], and a gentleman was yelling and screaming. And we went over and we calmed down that situation together. So it’s going to be a new approach, because my ideas are similar to Chief Barnes, but they’re somewhat different, and my relationship with Amy is going to be different than Chief Barnes because I’m a different person. I’m a person that that is all about collaboration. Not saying that Chief Barnes was not, but I’m just talking about me specifically.

We’ve had a good conversation over the last week about some of the things that we want to do. So it’s bringing in SPD, bringing CARE to the table, bringing in Fire, bringing in the mayor’s office. And prior to us leaving the room, everybody agreeing that this is what we’re going to do, bringing in [the Seattle Police Officers Guild] and saying, ‘Hey, this is what we’re looking at,’ and putting a lock on that door before we leave, and everybody can walk out saying, ‘I like the collective idea that we came up with together.’

PubliCola: I want to ask a question about the Bite of Seattle shooting. I understand that you’re not going to be able to provide specific information, but there’s been a feeling of lost trust because there’s just still no new information coming out about what happened. What can you tell me about what’s going on with the investigation and why we don’t know anything yet?

Sayles: It’s one of those roadblocks in policing that some day, hopefully, we can get past in regards to the information that we can provide. I think the biggest thing is when we provide information, sometimes it gives that person that we may be looking for the idea and the advance knowledge of, ‘Oh, they know who I am.’ And we unfortunately sometimes have to keep that close to the vest because we have to proceed in our investigation with caution, and say, ‘We have this information. We can’t fully give it out to the community yet because, unfortunately, sometimes people help these suspects in these situations. I had a great talk with our investigators yesterday. Hopefully, in the coming days and coming weeks, there’s some things that’s going to happen that we will be able to talk about.

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PubliCola: I want to talk a little bit about the culture at SPD, which has been criticized as misogynist and anti-LGBTQ. Under former chief Barnes, there were a lot of problematic incidents and missed opportunities, including the way SPD handled the [anti-trans] Mayday USA rally last year. Do you think there’s room for improvement in SPD’s relationship with LGBTQ+ residents, and how will your  approach differ from Barnes’?

Sayles: People have identified that I came from outside, but I was actually a part of [SPD’s] LGBTQ+ Advisory Board until taking the interim position. I hadn’t seen anything in my 13, 14 months that would lead me to believe that’s what occurred. But I can’t be ignorant to what has been put out there and what has been said. So I want to strengthen that relationship. I think we’re making inroads to strengthen that relationship.

I know in July we had a meeting where there was a person that was trying to disrupt the meeting, and everyone in that group, from what I heard, actually was like, ‘Hey, the police are here. They’ve been here. They’ve been supportive of what we’re trying to do. Like, you can’t come in here and try to disrupt this meeting. And we’re developing a great relationship with the police department.’ I think it’s all about relationships and understanding that the things happened in the past, we have to be aware of it, but we also need to move past it and work on strengthening that relationship beyond some of the missteps that happened in the past. 

PubliCola: I’ve heard some critics and commentators say that the next permanent police chief needs be someone with roots in this community who rose up through the ranks at SPD, as opposed to someone who comes from elsewhere, like yourself. What do you think of that critique?

Sayles: I hope that we get a leader that wants to be involved in the community, someone that’s going to lead this department for our people inside this police department and outside this police department, not leading because you want a certain title. I think that’s the biggest thing, and that’s what it should be—a person that’s going to look at what SPD stands for: Service, pride, and dedication. If it’s a person from the inside, by all means, let’s go forward and be great. If it’s a person from outside, let’s forward, let’s go forward and be great.

PubliCola:  Are you applying?

Sayles: I have not had an opportunity to take a second to even think about that. It’s been a long week, and as things start to slow down for me a little bit. I think I’ll take a glance at it. But once again, I’m more focused on the people inside this police department—how can I help them?—and then also on our community members. I’m a person that’s selfless. I don’t really talk about myself and what I’ve done, and here’s this accolade or that accolade. I’m all about the people, and I’m all about a we mentality instead of a me mentality. So, if I decide to put in for it, I’ll decide to put in for it. But I haven’t thought about that because I’m focused on what we need to accomplish now.

PubliCola: Like Barnes, you still have a home in Illinois. What is your long-term plan, as far as moving to this area permanently versus keeping a home out of state?

Sayles: My home is in the Issaquah area. My secondary residence that I worked hard for is in Illinois. I asked the mayor when we talked, I said, ‘I just want to know that I have a place here in Seattle. Whenever there’s a permanent decision made, I would like to remain here.’ I came here because I believe my higher power put me here for a reason, and that is to be a leader within whatever role I have here at SPD.

I think I have shown that I’ve been very involved with our rank and file. I’ve been involved in our professional staff, and I’m getting myself out there in the community more than I have over the last year. I’ve been involved in the community, but now I want to be more involved in the community. And this is a place that I chose to come to. I uprooted myself to come out here because I believed in what the mission and vision was of Seattle before Chief Barnes, during Chief Barnes, and where we’re going to go in the future.