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Texas to Subject Women to Sonogram, Lecture Before Abortions

On Friday, a federal appeals court ordered the immediate enforcement of a Texas law requiring doctors to subject all women seeking abortions to an ultrasound, to show them an image of the fetus, and to play them the sound of the fetal heartbeat. (Women can decline to view the images or listen to the heartbeat, but they have to listen to a description of the exam).

Advocates for reproductive rights argued that the law—which one blogger described as “yet another hoop in the series people with unwanted or dangerous pregnancies must jump through to get access to medical care”—violated abortion providers’ right to free speech, on the grounds that forcing abortion doctors to say something (i.e., to verbally describe the exam) is just as bad as denying them the opportunity to say something.

Meanwhile, pharmacists and doctors can refuse to dispense medication or provide services on the grounds that doing so would violate their “conscience,” yet providers who believe it’s wrong to subject women to an ultrasound and a lecture on fetal development are not allowed to refuse to do so on similar grounds—a double standard that privileges religious extremists over advocates for women and women’s right to make their own reproductive choices. (In Washington State, a federal appeals court is expected to rule on a case involving pharmacists who claim their religious beliefs allow them to refuse to stock or dispense emergency contraception later this month).

I’m not a lawyer, but both arguments seem eminently sound to me. No doctor should be forced to read from a script he or she believes is harmful to his or her patients, and “conscience” laws, if they must exist, should apply not only to religious zealots seeking the right to refuse care, but also to providers whose conscience dictates that they shouldn’t subject women to a cruel, invasive, and costly procedure.


  • DA

    Knowledge is power.  Pro-choicers don’t like the sonogram requirement because they’re afraid that women might come to have some sort of affection for the tiny person they see on the screen.  Much easier to throw her in the dumpster if you don’t have to look at her, right?

  • caturday

    If you even bothered to try to understand the psychology of the situation, you wouldn’t make such an ignorant comment. As usual, rehash talking points first, think never.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    this bill that you are willingly ignoring is about forcing women to listen about their unwanted, human parasitic fetus against their will — just to get an abortion.

    if a woman changes her mind and keep the pregnancy, since pro-choice supports a woman’s choice– we don’t have a problem with that.

    that’s ok because a woman can have an natural abortion, and the sonogram wouldn’t be a problem.

  • Jimb

    Flushing unborn babies down the toilet = “making their own reproductive choices”.

    Only in LibbyLand.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    THIS IS SCIENCE:

    FETUS IS NOT A BABY (GOOGLE THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT CHART), but a parasite because the classification of the biological relationship that is based on the behavior one organism (fetus) and how it relates to the woman’s body.

    as a zygote, it invaded the woman’s uterus using its TROPHOBLAST cells, hijacked her immune system by using NEUROKININ B and HCG— so her body doesn’t kill it, steals her nutrients to survive, and causes her harm or potential death.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophoblast

    “The placenta functions as an immunological barrier between the mother and the fetus, creating an immunologically privileged site. For this purpose, it uses several mechanisms:
    It secretes Neurokinin B containing phosphocholine molecules. This is the same mechanism used by parasitic nematodes to avoid detection by the immune system of their host.[2]”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_tolerance_in_pregnancy

    “Progesterone enriches the uterus with a thick lining of blood vessels and capillaries so that it can sustain the growing fetus. Due to its highly-negative charge, hCG may repel the immune cells of the mother, protecting the fetus during the first trimester. It has also been hypothesized that hCG may be a placental link for the development of local maternal immunotolerance.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chorionic_gonadotropin

    “It is also possible for a symbiotic relationship to exist between two organisms of the same species.”
    http://www.answers.com/topic/symbiosis  — Gale’s Science of Everyday Things.

    just like a parasitic twin — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_twin

    “an animal or plant that lives in or on another (the host) from which it obtains nourishment. The host does not benefit from the association and is often harmed by it”
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parasite

    pregnancy CAUSES HARM: http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm

    since a man can kill his tapeworm at anytime, so should a woman abort unwanted, human-parasitic fetus.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    THIS IS THE LAW:

    ABORTION IS A CIVIL AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT SUPPORTED BY THE RIGHTS TO PRIVACY, THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT, AND THE 13TH AMENDMENT.

    NO HUMAN has a right to life or any due process rights by the 14th amendment to use another human’s body or body parts AGAINST their will, civil and constitutional rights: that’s why you are not forced to donate your kidney—the human fetus is no exception; this is supported by the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, which makes reproductive slavery unconstitutional.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause

    consensual sex=/= a legal, binding contract to an unwanted fetus to live.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

     the bible supported abortion, that was done by a priest, in god’s name, in his holly temple!
    the 1984 NIV footnote of numbers 5:11-31 explained what “to thy thigh to rot, they belly to swell” meant: numbers 5:21 “or causes you to have a miscarrying womb and barrenness” to CAUSE a miscarrying womb IS an abortion.

    the judeo-christian god is a myth and historical evidence proves it.
    3.3.3 ATHEISM: A HISTORY OF GOD (Part 1)

  • caturday

    It’s so formulaic.

    1) Post non-factual appeals to emotion.
    2) Add a cutesy yet insulting nickname for your opponent.
    3) Run away before you read a comment that might call your flimsy, misguided worldview into question.

    I would call you a troll, but that’s insulting to trolls as they generally have enough intelligence to continue making troll arguments. You’re just an idiot.

  • DA

    Are you a pro-lifer masquerading as a pro-choicer in order to ridicule them?  I have a hard time believing that any rational pro-choice activist would publicly call a fetus “parasitic.”  Are all fetuses parasitic?  So you and I were once parasites?  Or does just the fact that the child is unwanted make it a parasite?  So like some babies are wonderful miracles sent from the angels in heaven, and others are parasitic worms, based on the mother’s “choice.”  Do you see how some people would find this kind of language morally troubling?

    And I love how you use very technical terms to refer to the unborn.  It’s a “pregnancy,” a “fetus,” it’s “parasitic.”  Some women might look at what’s inside them and realize that what’s there is all that and one more thing too: a child.  And the choice you’re so eager to have them make will then be a much more informed and balanced one, we can all agree.

  • DA

    “pregnancy CAUSES HARM,” says our zealous friend Gale.

    It also caused you and me…  But you sound like quite a monster, so maybe you’re onto something…

  • caturday

    More personal attacks…

    Unsurprising.

  • caturday

    Yes, all fetuses are parasitic. Perhaps if you spent less time worrying about the connotation and more time looking up the definition, you’d understand why she used it. Perhaps then also you might see why it is indeed a difficult choice for a mother to make, though not for the reasons you assume.

    We impose penalties for ending a human life for two reasons. First, because the life has value to the person living it. This requires consciousness, and consciousness before birth is meaningless. Second, because life has value to the people impacted by the life. Again, before birth, the people impacted by a fetus’ life consist of exactly one: the mother. Therefore, since the fetus’ consciousness is meaningless and the only other party with authority to make a decision is the mother, it’s entirely the mother’s decision to make.

    Also, there are no such thing as “angels” or “heaven” and the sooner you figure that out, the better off you’ll be. Mark my words.

  • DA

    “Again, before birth, the people impacted by a fetus’ life consist of exactly one: the mother.”  I would add one life to that: the fetus.  You can call it a fetus, a parasite, or whatever you wish, but you can’t change the fact that it is a genetically unique human creature that is alive, which is caused by the procedure of abortion to be dead.  We can all disagree about the moral implications of that act, but don’t pretend that that’s not the central moral issue here.

    And the angels in heaven comment was a joke, so take a deep breath and calm down.  But as a condescending urban liberal, I’m sure you feel you have the right to tell people what they may or may not believe in terms of religion.  I’d advise you to drop the patronizing judgment and be a little more tolerant of diversity.

  • Anonymous

    You would be more effective if you put forth an argument instead of just insulting people. That isn’t respectful to others or yourself.

  • Anonymous

    The pro-abortion zealots call human fetuses “parasites” all the time. Go read the “pro-choice” blogs at the heart of the movement.

  • Anonymous

    Gale Routh is weird.

  • caturday

    Who cares if it’s “a genetically unique human creature that is alive”. If you’ll notice, I made no argument that it was either not human or not alive. I made an argument based on consciousness, and it is most certainly not conscious in the same way as you and I. No one is pretending, you just don’t understand human philosophy.

    Additionally, I have the right to tell people whatever I want to tell them. Your rights end where mine begin, and so on. I’m only intolerant of “diversity” when the diversity in question manifests as outright stupidity and scientific denialism. Not only does it distract from the main issue, as you’ve so kindly illustrated, but it does humanity in general no good. You can believe in invisible sky demons all you want, but dammit you will NOT be given the power to dictate that *I* must live by your invisible sky demon’s demands.

    Before you make a poor argument out of my use of the word “you”, please understand that I use it in the royal sense.

  • caturday

    Also, you label me a “condescending urban liberal”. I assure you that I would hold the same beliefs if I lived in a suburban or rural environment, so we can strike that term from the rhetoric. Of course I’m a (social) liberal, that’s hardly even a question when religious zealots have so thoroughly hijacked social conservatism for their own ends.

    And if you consider nothing else in this post, consider this: would the first human ancestor to discover and use fire not have been condescending toward his less intelligent fellows when, even after given proof that fire would move their civilization forward, they refused it and spent their lives in the cold?

  • caturday

    Did you not just claim (incorrectly, at that) that I would do more good here if I refrained from insults? This seems hypocritical, given your behavior, hmm?

  • caturday

    And you would be more effective if instead of ignoring most of the comment you wouldn’t pick out one or two words and decide that the entire thing was an insult. It’s only insulting if DA believes that it’s unnecessary to understand an argument before taking a side.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not arguing against anyone. I’m not saying, Gale Routh is wrong because she is weird. That would be a stupid argument as for why she is wrong. She is just weird. Not trying to prove anything so I don’t see what argument I am harming or undercutting.

    If I think Gale Routh is weird then Gale Routh is weird. That is my reality. Are you trying to impose your morals on me?

  • caturday

    Now you’re just trying, unsuccessfully again, to reverse my own argument on me. You said she’s weird. I’m sure you’re weird in a lot of ways, too. I know I am. In fact, I’m sure every damn person who finds this page, whether or not they comment, is weird.

    Given that, why did you find it necessary to call out her general weirdness? What did you think it added to the discussion? These are serious questions.

  • Anonymous

    It was a quick observation. If I could sum up my thoughts on her in a single word, “weird” is what came to mind. I’m sure lots of people are weird.

  • death penalty equality mmm?

    hello pro lifers, if it’s a life then all women who get abortions and their doctors should get the lectic chair, right?  if not, then it’s a life that has got less rights or status than other lives so you are buying into the pro choice argument.
    so, do you support the death penalty for a woman who gets an abortion in washignton state to abort the fetus of her rapist?  cuz that would be first degre murder in your view.  so, you want about 40 million women in the usa to get the death penalty.  riiiiiight? 

    oh, no?  explain, though you can’t.

  • caturday

    There are two explanations for why you posted that. You might have done it because you thought it would discredit her in the eyes of your peers. Most people would view your post as inflammatory or childish or both. Nearly everyone would likely agree that it adds no value. If you posted it knowing this, then it was intended to be derogatory. If you posted *not* knowing this, then you’re a sociopath or you speak without thinking.

  • caturday

    So which is it? Hypocrite, sociopath, or idiot?

  • Julian

    I have never heard anyone discuss a emotional human event, abortion, with such clinical language. Do you really think that we can dispense with “connotations,” evoking emotions when we’re discussing a topic such as abortion?  That is not only irrational, it socio-pathological.

    You’re posting here so you evidently want to sway minds, so why do you use a word such as “parasite” that will only repulse people?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    “wow, you can’t be pro-choice with actual logic and science to back up your claims, which completely destroys my little pro-life fascist fantasy….NOOOO” says you.

    heck no, i’m not a pro-life schizophrenic fascist like you and your ilk, and yes every mammal was once a parasite to its mom, at one time….so your point is?

    unlike you, i try to see the SCIENCE behind the emotional drama….so feel free to become a logical and rational person with us pro-choicers.

    a fetus is not a child, google the human development chart.

    “And the choice you’re so eager to have them make will then be a much more informed and balanced one”

    no, you and this bill are just trying  to emotionally blackmailing a woman to not abort, she already knows what pregnancy is…since she is pregnant.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    “zealous” ?

    so you are not going to b*tch about the science, but every harm that pregnancy causes listed on this site : http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm

    whatever.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    well, i love you, too.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WLANNXG267BDEZS74YSQIQQHXU Gale Routh

    thanks for the defense.

  • Julian

    Someone who refuses to or can’t grasp the implications of using a word “parasite,” to describe a fetus is no longer functioning normally. No point in boring anyone with analogies.   

  • Bark More Wag Less

    “since a man can kill his tapeworm at anytime, so should a woman abort unwanted, human-parasitic fetus”

    Glad you’re not my mom.