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Both McGinn and His Critics Are Wrong About Why Prop. 1 Lost

“Liberal Authoritarian” ? Seattle City Council member and Sierra Clubber Mike O’Brien at the $60 car tab party. Photo by Craig Benjamin

Mayor Mike McGinn and his opponents are both wrong about why Prop. 1, the $60 car tab fee, failed last night.

McGinn, hearkening back to the days when the “roads and transit” ballot measure failed because it tied light rail (which voters wanted) to miles and miles of new freeway lanes (which they didn’t), declared today, “I personally believe that if we had a stronger transit component in the ballot measure, that would be appealing to voters.”

McGinn was referring to the need for rail between Ballard and downtown, which he has been pushing since his campaign in 2009. About half the car-tab proceeds would have gone to transit improvements, but those would have consisted of improvements to bus speed and reliability like bus bulbs and queue jump lanes, not new transit service hours.

McGinn is wrong that voters want to fund more capital investments in transit. Those who ride buses are keenly aware that what’s needed now is not a shiny new streetcar line, but improvements to service that actually make the struggling system work. As anyone who’s ridden the 44 from the U District to Ballard can tell you, allowing buses to jump ahead in line (instead of waiting endlessly in the righthand lane) would improve travel speeds for everyone. That should be the priority, not streetcars.

Additionally, voters disliked the fact that the car-tab fee, the only option legislators gave the city to pay for transportation enhancements, is regressive: A person who drives a clunker would have paid the same fee as someone who drives a luxury SUV.

Meanwhile, opponents of McGinn’s transportation policy, like PI.com curmudgeon Joel Connelly, are saying the vote represents a rejection of frivolous expenditures on bikes and transit and “social engineering” by liberals who want to take away our God-given right to drive everywhere.

Trashing the fee because it prioritized transit speed improvements over road repairs and bridges (footnote: bridges are fantastically expensive to fix; repairing the Magnolia Bridge alone would cost more than the entire car-tab fee would have raised over 10 years, which is one reason bridge repairs are largely federally funded), Connelly called it “the brainchild of an insular echo chamber of liberal authoritarians in the Emerald City who purport to do what they judge is best for all of us”—meaning the mayor and the Sierra Club.

Is Connelly really arguing that Kate Joncas of the Downtown Seattle Association, Estela Ortega of El Centro de la Raza, Keith Weir of the Building and Construction Trades Council, John Littel of the carpenters’ union, Columbia City developer Rob Mohn, Paulo Nunes-Ueno of Children’s Hospital, and Lynn Tangen of Vulcan, are part of a liberal/enviromentalist “echo chamber” consisting of “a select few”?

Voters rejected the fee because they resent McGinn. The campaign failed to do a good enough job dissociating themselves from the unpopular mayor, and the result was that many voters believed the measure was more bike-centric (in fact, it included just 6.8 percent percent for bikes) and less car-unfriendly (half the money would have gone directly to street repairs, and bike safety and transit speed improvements benefit drivers, too) than it actually was.

And although Connelly mentions the regressivity argument (as well as the “not enough money for bridges” argument, debunked above), his main point is that Seattle voters don’t want those liberal social engineers telling us what to do. Which would all be well and good, except that the car-tab measure was actually the “brainchild” of a city council-appointed committee consisting of trade union members, business representatives, public health advocates, and social-justice lefties, along with the environmentalists Connelly vilifies.

(He even goes so far as to suggest the Sierra Club should get back to promoting conservation—ignoring the fact that the environmental movement hasn’t been about conservation for decades, ever since global warming became a major concern in the 1990s).

Is Connelly really arguing that Kate Joncas, of the Downtown Seattle Association, Estela Ortega, of El Centro de la Raza, Keith Weir, of the Building and Construction Trades Council, John Littel of the carpenters’ union, Columbia City developer Rob Mohn, Paulo Nunes-Ueno of Children’s Hospital, and Lynn Tangen of Vulcan, are part of a liberal/enviromentalist “echo chamber” consisting of “a select few”? Or that those groups are somehow in cahoots with “Mayor McGinn, Councilman Mike O’Brien, the Sierra Club-Cascade Chapter, Cascade Bicycle Club, Transportation Choices Coalition, and an insufferable, self-important local political web site”?

Additionally, it’s pretty ludicrous to claim, as Connelly does, that tolls are a great way of funding transportation while simultaneously trashing car-tab fees as social engineering. The truth is that both are social engineering—much like highway spending, they encourage certain ways of getting around while discouraging others. Social engineering is inevitable in any society but an anarchy; the question is, what kind do we want? Connelly likes tolls; I, personally, like both tolls and car-tab fees. Apparently, that makes me (and anyone who supported Proposition 1, including the list of business, social justice, and labor leaders above) a “liberal authoritarian.”


  • Junipero

    Do you actually have evidence of these claims? At all? If you look at the Seattle Transit Blog post on Prop 1′s defeat you can see comments from a lot of transit advocates who said the regressivity argument was a big issue for them, leading many to either vote no or reluctantly vote yes.

    As to the transit, Prop 1 actually severely restricted funding for streetcars, coming well short of what McGinn wanted. Most of the funding would have indeed gone to help buses like the 44.

    A good post-mortem of Prop 1 is important for moving forward on transportation, but we have to get it right.

  • http://twitter.com/rizzuhjj John Jensen

    “Voters” is more powerful than “my opinion,” but you have absolutely no data to back up your assertions and I consider this entire post uncredible. You’re in the fishbowl with the rest of us and often you put way too much stock in narratives and conventional wisdom. Just because the “no” campaign won doesn’t mean its message resonated and “won.” In fact, with numbers like this it would be pragmatic to assume that the campaigns had no effect at all on the yes vs. no outcome, since campaigns work on the margins.

  • Bill B in the Central District

    “Voters rejected the fee because they resent McGinn”

    Really?  Personally i voted against it because of its half-assed approach to dealing wit the spectrum of transit and infrastructure issues we have in this City.

    What we need is for Council and SDOT to come up with REAL net dollars necessary to address our backlog AND desires.  And from that we can have an honest conversation about getting this work funded and done.

    Prop 1 was a joke, and the voters, rightly or wrongly with their rationale, have given us an opportunity to do it right. 

    Perhaps, in this way only, McGinn is right…

  • Anonymous

    And that’s exactly what I said: “Additionally, voters disliked the fact that the car-tab fee, the only option legislators gave the city to pay for transportation enhancements, is regressive: A person who drives a clunker would have paid the same fee as someone who drives a luxury SUV.”

  • Benleis1

    Everyone is free to interpret the results as they will but you can’t really claim anyone is right or wrong without some polling data to back it up.  That said I personally voted it against for somewhat similar reasons to the ones you outlined.

    Ben

  • Gomez

    All three of you are wrong. Asking voters to pay an extra $60 a year in a down economy amidst multiple uncertainties, especially after foisting a previous $20 car tab measure on voters just a few months ago, is what killed the measure. “Do you want to pay substantially more money for your life?” is a question that’s usually going to get rejected.

  • Graham

    Anyone driving around Seattle on our network of collapsing streets and roads saw Prop 1 as failing to address the problem. Larding it up with trolley follies, bike lanes etc. just made it more unpalatable. I think if the measure had asked for $100 car tabs to repair streets and bridges and add more sidewalks it would have passed 60/40.

  • Jon Morgan

    Erica, this is not true: “the only option legislators gave the city to pay for transportation enhancements, is regressive”.  The TBD had other funding options available to it including tolls.

  • Jon Morgan

    That’s not accurate.  The TBD had at least 3 different funding mechanisms it could choose from, including tolls, VLF, and at least one more I’m forgetting.  The state did NOT lock TBD into choosing VLF; they chose it because it polled best.

  • Rod S.

    Regressive fees in a progressive city… I could of easily afforded the additional $60, but it would have been nearly impossible for a lot of people. If there had been a mechanism in it for granting waivers to low income individuals, I probably would have voted for it.

  • FrequentPoster

    I ask myself: Why come to Publicola? I now know: To see just what utterly stupid thing one of them will say next.

    Voters rejected the fee because they resent McGinn.

    Yup. This from the same Publicola that, just a few hours ago, told us that passage of the Families & Education levy was a McDope victory. Don’t ya kinda sorta maybe think there was a little more to it than that, Erica?

    half the money would have
    gone directly to street repairs

    When in doubt, repeat the lie, huh Erica? The CTAC group advised that 20% of the money go to fix the streets. Not half. Were you out sick for all of fourth grade? 20% is not 50%. Honest.

    his main
    point is that Seattle voters don’t want those liberal social engineers
    telling us what to do

    Guess what? We don’t. Remember when the director of the parks tried to ban smoking because it set a bad example for the children? He was out in a week. How quickly these people forget.

    the
    car-tab measure was actually the “brainchild” of a city
    council-appointed committee consisting of trade union members, business
    representatives, public health advocates, and social-justice lefties,
    along with the environmentalists Connelly vilifies

    In other words, friends of McDope and Paul Allen, each of whom is less popular in liberal Seattle than Obama is among the cattle ranchers of Eastern Oregon. To portray that cabal as anything but a bunch of ass-kissing insiders is, well, nuts. Not to put too fine a point on it.

    ignoring the fact that the environmental
    movement hasn’t been about conservation for decades, ever since global
    warming became a major concern in the 1990s

    Publicola’s servers don’t have the capacity, nor do it readers have the attention span, to handle a full rebuttal to that. But this is a subject near ‘n dear to my heart. Environmentalists — the real ones, that is — are all about “conservation.” Then, now, forever. There is no conflict between conservation and addressing global warming. In fact, they go hand in glove.

    Is Connelly really arguing … that those groups are somehow in cahoots with “Mayor McGinn,
    Councilman Mike O’Brien, the Sierra Club-Cascade Chapter, Cascade
    Bicycle Club, Transportation Choices Coalition, and an insufferable,
    self-important local political web site”?

    God, I hope so. If he won’t, I sure as hell will.

    Additionally, it’s pretty ludicrous to claim, as Connelly does, that
    tolls are a great way of funding transportation while simultaneously
    trashing car-tab fees as social engineering. The truth is that both are
    social engineering—much like highway spending, they encourage certain
    ways of getting around while discouraging others. Social engineering is
    inevitable in any society but an anarchy; the question is, what kind do
    we want?

    Nice try with the reductionism. Nothing means anything, huh Erica? The fact that this or that policy has a broader social impact does not make it “social engineering.” Holy cow, Publicola, get a damn clue. Or maybe not, because if you and your friends keep it up, I for one will have all kinds of fun watching your asses get kicked over and over at the polls.

  • Mary

    “Voters rejected the fee because they resent McGinn. The campaign failed to do a good enough job dissociating themselves from the unpopular mayor….”   This is in my opinion the crux of the issue.  I have never seen a Mayor so unpopular and this was seen as a vote again McGinn.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Martin H. Duke

    That’s odd, because the Families and Ed levy makes us pay substantially more for our lives, and it cruised to victory.

  • Grover

    So you think that the League of Women Voters, the Municipal League, the 42nd and 11th District Democrats, et al endorsed NO on Prop 1 because they don’t like McGinn?

  • Nemo

    I have much of the “resentment” of FrequentPoster on this. But it ain’t against the Mayor. This was a proposal that primarily came out of the City Council after all, with of course some level of input from the Mayor’s office. The city council basically rubber stamped a committee recommendation, most of whom were in fact too insular (like the mayors office), not well versed on the day to day operation of the city, but looking to built a peice of something they could incrementally increment over time.  Neither they nor the clownsil were looking at what people are actually dealing with on a daily basis, and did not treat basic infrastructure maintainence as a priority- their lip service to it was almost non-existent, and always lame. The was not lost upon a lot of people who voted against this.

    The additional reason prop1 lost is especially since the Bridging the Gap fiasco, people got wise to the bait and switch. People were also very insistent that potholes and road maintainence trumps streetcars and bus bulbs, as well as bicycle improvements. This measure did not provide enough to catch up on the backlog, much less maintian it afterwards. Too much for too little in the end.

  • Nemo

    Correction to the above: looking to build a piece of somethng they could incrementally IMPLEMENT over time… 

  • Grover

    The revenue in the Families and Education levy was dedicated to something that the voters considered worthwhile — not garbage like streetcars, curb bulbs and bike lanes.

  • ivan

    Tolls are not regressive? 

  • Bruce Nourish

    “McGinn is wrong that voters want to fund more capital investments in transit.”

    I would qualify that as “major new capital investments”. Bus bulbs and queue jumps are capital investments, just ones of a very different scale.

  • Gomez

    If you’re a homeowner, yes, but you can probably afford it.

    If I can’t afford to own a home but do own a car, I’d still have to pay the car tabs.

    Not everyone is an $80,000 a year software engineer and lives in an economic reality that makes it fair to compare the two items in a vacuum.

  • Anonymous

    we all know why you read publicola, troll.

  • MVH

    The Families and Education Levy was also a renewal of a current tax–if it lost, it would have taken a ton of money away from schools.

  • Nemo

    I would think it’s more accurate to think capital investments that increase BOTH transit capacity and reliability would be what most people want. That could include light rail on the West side, after basic street and infrastructure maintianence is caught up and can be maintained. They are separate issues in the minds of many.  This piecemeal approach at the expense of basic infrastructure leaves too many voids that can no longer be ignored.

  • Mr. X

    Disagreeable as FP often (OK, usually if you like) is, he made a lot of really excellent points in that post. 

    If all you can do in response is call him a troll you’re the one who’s out of gas intellectually.

  • Anonymous

    Why would you patronize a website you always disagree with? Because you’re a troll. 

  • Big Jim Slade

    ” If there had been a mechanism in it for granting waivers to low income individuals, I probably would have voted for it. ”

    And I still would voted it down cold because we all know there’s no way in hell that could ever be enforced.

    Look, the answer is all of the above. Prop 1 didn’t pass because the timing was awful coming on the heels of the County’s fee increase, it didn’t make the case that enough would go towards infrastructure repair instead of baloney like bus bulbs and bike lanes, it was regressive as regressive can be, and it had McGinn behind it which in this town is enough to bring out a solid 40% anti-vote. Christ Erica, is it really that tough for you to understand?

  • Big Jim Slade

    “Why would you patronize a website you always disagree with?”

    Some people don’t care to get all their news from the echo chamber …

  • Guest

    It’s perfectly legitimate to argue that Prop 1 was a half-assed approach.  Your argument is much more constructive than the typical anti-government, anti-bike screeds we hear from most Prop 1 opponents  But, you should at least be willing to put forward some ideas of how to come up with the REAL net dollars necessary to address both the maintenance backlog and our desires.  I think Prop 1′s biggest advocates would agree that it was half-assed, but that’s because the state has not left cities with many good finance tools to deal with infrastructure needs.  If you have some ideas, please come forward with them.

  • Guest

    And it’s no more specific in what it promises than Prop. 1. 

  • Guest

    Erica is right.  The tolling authority in the TBD legislation is pretty useless.  The only other options are property tax or sales tax. Sales tax is already high and property tax is already the funding source for Bridging the Gap. John Fox also argued for impact fees, but that’s a pretty illusory source too given the slow pace of new development in this economy. 

  • RossB

    Are there any polls out about what people liked or didn’t like about the proposal? Until then, my guess is as good as any:

    1) Too high a tax on cars. It is crazy, because before Eyman, we paid a lot more for tabs, but people forget this. They only see the tabs going up significantly, in tough times no less (when many folks live in their cars).
    2) The money for streetcar systems. There are a lot of people (myself included) that don’t like the South Lake Union streetcar and think it is a waste of money. They see money spent on similar systems as similarly wasteful. That doesn’t mean it couldn’t be sold better, and might make sense. For example, a trolley line replacing a heavily used bus route could free up the buses, which could result in more frequent service. But that sales job didn’t happen. Instead, people saw more South Lake Union streetcar type systems, and they don’t like it. They would much rather have a real light rail system (meaning fast) or a rapid bus system (not quite as fast, but cheaper).
    3) Money for bikes. This was a small part of the proposal, and it wasn’t sold very well. Every bike commuter means one less driver. I drive to work sometimes, and other times I ride my bike. I only ride on the Burke Gilman, and I take a bus to my bike, which sits inside a bike locker. More bike lockers and more safe bike paths are a really inexpensive way to reduce traffic. But it wasn’t sold that way, and that played a part in it losing.
    4) Not enough money for sidewalks. There are parts of the city that lack sidewalks, and it is terrible. This would provide some money for it, but again, not enough, or it wasn’t sold well enough. I haven’t looked at the numbers, buy my guess is that this proposal lost in many of the areas that lack sidewalks. If people in those areas thought this would result in more sidewalks, they would have supported it.

    One of the big weaknesses of this was the lack of cooperation with the county. The county runs the buses. If McGinn really wants to save his job, he needs to work with the county in developing systems that work together. I didn’t see it with this proposal, and that probably played a part in the defeat of this measure.

  • David Miller

    As someone who was actually on the campaign trail and seen the polling, I also disagree with “Voters rejected the fee because they resent McGinn.” McGinn can be faulted for driving this flawed measure (and those who don’t think this was his baby are either trying to protect him or weren’t paying attention how it got started in the first place) but people voted against it because it was badly put together.

    The 20-point margin wasn’t about the regressive nature of the VLF, either. Those who voted against this because the VLF is regressive were a (perhaps meaningful) minority. The issue for most concerned about the regressive nature of this tax is the TBD put off until later dealing with it. It may be that we come back to voters in 2012 with the same VLF because Olympia refuses to give us a MVET. But I would hope (and will work hard to prevent) coming back without an up-front way to address the regressivity that voters get to vote on. Whether that is rebates or ? remains to be seen and we won’t know for sure until after the regular session is concluded.

    This failed because of streetcar studies, bicycle parking spots, no money even for bridge maintenance, too few sidewalks, and above all because the vague language allowed SDOT to put out at least three different budgets inside two months — all with meaningfully different spending and all within the framework of the TBD’s proposal. The idea the TBD could, as Councilmember O’Brien famously stated, “do whatever they wanted” with the money was soundly rejected.

    Now we have to clean up after this mess and bring a better measure back to voters. I’m confident that by borrowing spending controls like Tim Burgess put into the Famlies & Ed levy, specificity of categories (though not probably not many specific projects) like we did for the Parks & Green Spaces Levy, and by shifting money to actual infrastructure projects that directly help Seattle’s transit and other commuters we can get it done — even if Olympia doesn’t give us additional tools.

    If you want to help, join our mailing list at http://www.sidewalksandstreets.org/join_donate.html

    David Miller

  • Eddiew

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/JTC/Documents/TRM/LocalTaxes2009.pdf  see page 131 for revenue menu: sales tax, property tax, tolls, vehicle fees, impact fees, and LID.  all are regressive or clumsy.  Tolls are pre-empted by state by recent legislation (HB 2211?). CTACiii did polling before choosing the lesser of the evils.

    mayors are not involved in TBDs, only the councils.

    the entire state tax code is regressive; what else is new. slow and unreliable transit and a lack of sidewalks are also regressive.  by the way, regressivity is measured against income, not per vehicle.  there is a positive correlation between the number of vehicles and income among households.  it is regressive, but not as  much as the opponents outlined.

  • Guest

    What is this “Bridging the Gap fiasco” you keep referring to?  By any measure, Bridging the Gap has been quite successful, delivering significantly more than promised.

  • My vote still only counts once

    David – I completely agree with your paragraph # 3. When I saw that almost 10% or $18 million of the entire measure was ear marked for a study of expanding street cars that sealed the deal for me. It’s ironic that in this budget cycle, where the council has extended once again the loan on the SLUT, the Mayor wants to ….study it ?

  • Guest

    Baloney like bus bulbs and bike lanes? This is the attitude that always has elected officials overlooking simple fixes in favor of mega-project scale projects like rail and highways.  Bike lanes are a very cheap way to improve safety.  Bus bulbs are a cheap way to provide faster and more reliable bus service. But people like Big Jim just can’t see the value of low-dollar investments that provide real bang for the buck. So electeds go back to promoting projects that cost hundreds of millions of dollars whatever the demand and whatever the external costs.

  • Bill B in the Central District

    I believe we have quite a few tools that we are afraid to use.  Adequate EIS analysis and proper identification of mitigation measures would help us out of this downward spiral of growth without commensurate (and concurrent) provision of adequate transit improvements.  Impact fees would be one way to provide the mitagations.   McGinn’s approach to remove SEPA pushes us in the wrong direction.

    Given we have probably dozens of planners on staff I would use SDOT as the starting point – what projects are proposed (how many gazillion plans do we have now, TMP, SETS, etc etc) and what are projected costs, their priority, etc.  The CIP may have data points as well.  Point is that there should be staff “expert” in these issues that can pull together the picture of what needs to be done.  Prioritization would then have to be done.  I would use local community input for some of that.

    I woudl also look at trying to do things more on the cheap.  For example, I would create bike greenways by placing ecology blocks at one street end (with emergency vehicle-wide gap) and look to neighborhoods to define local bikeways. 

    When Bridging the Gap rolls around again we should have a better baseline for what is required.

    I also believe that our B&O taxes should be looked at – I don’t know if this is possible but I hope that they could be made more progressive.  And I would reinstate the head tax with a vengeance.  And an employment tax.   Too many people come to work in the city that do not live here (hence massive investments on roads and transit necessary to get them in and out), and they need to pay more of the share of our infrastructure costs. 

    I would also look to changing the state law that prevents the City from undertaking infrastructure projects and putting everything into the hands of private contractors. 

  • Guest

    What could possibly be more directly beneficial to transit than the speed and reliability improvements in Prop 1? These are bread and butter projects that are well proven to make a real difference to the experience of bus riders. And, best of all, they’re cheap.

  • RossB

    David, what exactly do you have against bicycle parking spots? As I stated, without a bike locker, I would drive every day to work, thus helping clog up 15th Ave NE (you know that street, right?) as well as I-5. Instead, I take a bus to the U-District, then open up my bike locker and peddle my way to Fremont. I’m way too old and slow to bike on busy streets, or up and over Maple Leaf. But the Burke Gilman is very easy and safe.

    This is a combination that works really well going the other direction as well. There are lots of folks going over to Redmond, and many of them endure a nasty commute only because they need to take two buses to get over there. A ride to 520 makes sense. From there, the bus jumps to the head of the line and they might actually save time. The problem of course, is that people don’t want to have their bike stolen, so they need a bike locker. Without it, they won’t bother and just drive.

    Bike lockers are really cheap for what they provide. At least I assume they are. Maybe you’ve done the homework and figured how much of the proposal was going to bike lockers. My guess is would be less than $1 (out of the $60).

  • Girl w/o bangs

    None of the options could rightly be considered progressive. They went with VLF because it was closest to a user fee & polled best of the options

  • Jefferson

    ‘always’ is a generalization.  Name calling is a form of trolling as well.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr Baker

    I voted no. I have my reasons, Erica failed to state any of them.

    McGinn is correct in that an attempt to bury the streetcar light rail-ish campaign promise in a larger mixed bag of stuff did muddy the water on the voter’s opinion on that subject. He’s dillutional thinking that it would have faired better as a solo vote.

    It’s the nexus, Erica. Taxing cars to study a future possible streetcar while those cars are driving on crumbling roads today is too far to reach when money is so short.
    Narrower projects, more comprehensive plans to execute, on obvious problems.

    Part out these treasures, let people vote on them

  • gohuskies

    I imagine most people didn’t make their decision based on the 11th LD Democrats endorsement.

  • Anonymous

    The nod to the regressive nature of the tab was only a smokescreen to hide your ongoing petty feud with Connelly as well as your academic argument this was all about hating McGinn.  sure, there was some of that, but really, it was a poorly writtten proposition that was vague on its allocations and ultimate goals.  People didn’t want to pay a lot of money and then ten years later have nothing to show for it but more studies…sort of like we paid — what?  $400,000 for a bike plan that 5 years later McGinn wants to do over?  It’s not about bikes or cars or transit, it’s about actually achieving something.  Anyway, Martin Duke does a much better job covering this issue, mainly because he doesn’t have an axe to grind with love/hate relationships with the Mayor and that guy a the PI.

    http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/11/09/prop-1-loses-badly/

    One other thing…in another article that either you or Josh wrote, you claim the Family and School Levy was McGinn’s signature achievement, and even mentioned his pettiness in denying Burgess any sort of credit. Well, it’s interesting that passed so handily with McGinn’s stamp on it while Prop 1, with his stamp on it, did not. Seems to be an inconsistency in your conspiracy theory…academic thesis.

  • Anonymous

    Actually it while it was a renewal of the current tax, it also doubled it.

  • Anonymous

    Right, which was also a McGinn initiative…maybe people weren’t voting for and against McGinn by proxy through Fam and Ed Levy and Prop 1.  Maybe they just picked and chose the ones that made the most sense and had specific, well delineated goals.

  • FrequentPoster

    Why would you patronize a website you always disagree with? Because you’re a troll.

    Or maybe it’s because I think that smug pieces of shit like you ought to be told what smug pieces of shit they are.

  • Chad N

    I’m tired of the argument that a VLF is regressive. You don’t have to own a car. But if you decide to, it is reasonable that an annual fee is charged. The VLF is an externality fee to make up for the environmental, congestion and social costs that the car imposes on everyone else. 1986 Corrolas and 2010 BMWs impose generally the same externalities on society. If the fee is indexed at all, it should be based on something like CO2-emissions/mile, not dollar value. I am sure that that externality cost is a lot more than $60/year, or even $160/year.
    $60 is a pittance compared to the actual costs imposed.

  • FrequentPoster

    Hey, ya loafer licking liar, Families & Education started in the early 1990s. I’m afraid that your tavern buddy, Mayor McDope, is a Michael-Come-Lately on that one.

  • RossB

    The fee is regressive in the sense that it does not correlate with wealth. Income correlates with wealth to a great degree. So does property (the land and buildings you own or rent). Some people live in their car, but they would pay the same tabs as someone who owned a very expensive car (the folks who live in their car obviously don’t own expensive cars).

  • Anonymous

    1) I don’t wear loafers
    2) I’m not a fan of McGinn and never was
    3) You’re right about the history of the initiative, and I was unclear on what I meant.  The Levy doubled the tax and McGinn was a huge part of promoting it.  That’s why he took all the credit for it when it passed.

  • Anonymous

    Since you hate transit, safe pedestrian walkways, and bikes so much, why do you live in a city?

  • Anonymous

    Caveat: I have to admit, I actually agree with most of this post (much as I detest how FP delivers his message 95% of the time).

  • Nemo

    If that were true, we would not have a backlog on street maintainence now. There were improvement projects, sure, I still see the signs. I don’t see the pothole rangers able to keep up yet. What gap was it supposed to be bridging?  I thought it was street maintainence.

  • Big Jim Slade

    That case wasn’t made to the public at all Guest. To quote ivan “fuck bus bulbs and fuck Prop. 1″

  • simple question

    how much is a bike locker, and why can’t you pay $3 a day to use one?

  • blind to 1%/99%

    hello!  regressivity is about how the cost is differentially imposed, not whether it should be imposed. 

    if the point is externalities it makes no freaking sense to charge a $600 scooter an 100% tax over ten years (Here’s math, it’s $60 times ten, divided by $600, change the number to a percent, got it?) as a $40,000 Hummer that’s driven 20,000 miles a year, wastefully, in which case the tax burden is approximately 0.00000000000000001 percent if you know what I mean.  don’t abandon the concept of regressivity just because you want something, regressivity has a meaning.  and in fact many people do have to own a car, pal, to think otherwise is elitist, smug, wrong and fails to note that our region has no effectie fast rapid transit system going all over.  you also fail to note there’s already many fees charged to car owners alnd you completely fail the fairness test in thinking owners of a beamer and a 2986 corolla can equaly bear a fee — this is true 1% thinking.  and the $60 isn’t a pittance if you’re poor and you can’t pay the light bill or the rent pal.  in fact that with the 20 plus the 20 means the burden on the lowest quintile would have risen to about 17.5% of their income from 17% — why would you cruelly make the poor pay disporportionately and protect those BMW owners? 

  • the smuggest 1%

    oh but if you live in your own car you’re creating externalities!!! just like a BMW owner!

  • Mr. X

    …or maybe it’s because the rest of us on the left refuse to let you so-called “New Urbanists” define being progressive solely as hating cars and unconditionally loving density (and developers).

  • Mr. X

    You want a fiasco?  Taking just about every non-voted City tax dollar
    that was adopted at the same time as BTG (close to $100 million) and
    squandering it (along with a ton of Federal money that could also have
    gone to other projects) on the Mercer Street beautification project –
    and then pleading poverty and coming to the voters hat-in-hand with a
    regressive tax.

    Now THAT’S a fiasco – and the voters saw through it.

  • Mr. X

    …and how many new riders would they really attract – a quarter of a percent?

  • Scuba Steve

    Why does anyone call this a car tab tax? This lazy reckless proposition would have put the same tab expense on a 300-pound scooter as it would on a 6000-pound SUV. Which of these has a greater impact on roads? Motorcycles cause virtually no damage to roads and spend most of their time as standby vehicles parked in storage.

    The owner of  $100,000 RV enjoys the same $150 tab as the owner of the $1,500 compact. Which of these owners can afford to (and should) pay for road improvements?

    It is very lazy to expense every vehicle when so many of them hardly ever even see the road and cause little or no damage to it when they do.

    If the goal is road improvement then tax the damaging use of roads, not the ownership of a license plate.

    Fuel tax is THE MOST efficient way to tax the actual use of roads. If you’re burning a lot of fuel, you’re using a lot of road.

     If you’ve convinced yourselves that a fuel tax is not an option and that tabs are a must, then at least consider either exempting the vehicles that have little impact on roads or use vehicle weight to determine the cost of a license tab.

  • Anonymous

    How did the voters “see through” the east Mercer fiasco? It’s being built in case you didn’t notice. And we haven’t gotten to the west Mercer mess, which is essential to make sure traffic flow works after the DBTunnel replaces the viaduct (the DBT north portal is east of Seattle Center without the current Western ramp used by BINMIC traffic).

  • Anonymous

    “the entire state tax code is regressive” is the real problem, and I don’t see it being addressed any time soon.

  • FrequentPoster

    Let’s chalk this up to mutual brain farts. Your post was muddy, but I did go off on the wrong guy (you). Anything McGinn makes me a little crazier than usual, which is saying a lot. God, I wish someone would launch a recall campaign against the jerk.

  • FrequentPoster

    You can take your bike lanes and shove ‘em up your ass. Those things are detriments to all concerned.

  • Anonymous

    Sure, I’d prefer separate bike trails (like B-G), and that would ensure a far higher percentage of personal transit not in cars (or buses). Until that time comes, you’ll have to live with bike lanes and other accommodations that drive you (and Grover) crazy. Boo hoo for you.

  • Girl w/o bangs

    It’s sad that we live in a society where many people’s car payments have led them to foreclosure. We should afford people the freedom in our city not to need a car.

  • Guest

    Have you reached out to the Streets for All leaders and started a discussion on how you will all work together to get a successful ballot issue on the table for 11/2012?

  • MVH

    Quite true, but voting it down would have defunded many current programs, including all school health clinics.

    There was no such issue with the $60 car tabs.

  • Wally3

    Here’s an idea:  dedicate 100% of the new tax revenue on dealing with the over $1.8 billion in deferred road and bridge maintenance.  I voted “no” on Prop 1 because it did not allocate enough to road and bridge maintenance.  I would gladly approve a $60 or even an $80 increase in my car tab fees if the funds were dedicated to chipping away at the enormous amount of deferred maintenance that Seattle has created over the past few decades. 

  • Mr. X

    They saw that the money that was available to the City has been pissed away on unnecessary projects, yet they plead poverty and ask for more.  It couldn’t be more obvious, really (and the City has squashed the various AWV plans around their preordained Mercer scheme, rather than the opposite as you state).

  • Anonymous

    You think the DBT was designed to fit Mercer? Maybe so. Regardless, your point is pretty indirect; I don’t think voters thought a lot about the misuse of fed. $ on Mercer. It’s inside baseball.

  • FrequentPoster

    Yeah, and you’ll be happy to live with the occasional cyclista who, after hitting a pothole that your best buddy, Mayor McDope, decided not to fix, gets crushed by a car or truck. Never fear, though, because every cyclista death is a happy day for your crowd, because it gives you another chance to launch propaganda missiles at drivers.

    And don’t those work so well? Last summer, we had a barista cyclist who died when he drove down a flight of stairs, quite possibly while driving and texting. Then we had some delivery boy buy the farm when he raced his fixie straight into a turning vehicle during rush hour. Oh, the opportunities!

    The result? Prop. 1 lost 60-40.

    It’ll happen again.

  • FrequentPoster

    Devote 100% of it to “pavement preservatioin,” and I’ll vote for it.

  • FrequentPoster

    Who put a gun to your head and forced you to buy a car?

  • FrequentPoster

    The “regressive tax” aspect isn’t relevant. You have faux-”progressives” objecting to Prop. 1 on the grounds of its regressive nature, while turning right around and supporting road tolls, which are every bit as regressive. The “progressives” of Seattle, like the typical wingnuts out East, have no principles at all — just talking points.

  • Anonymous

    You really are an AH. Do you enjoy being reviled?

  • Anonymous

    thats absurd.  you shouldnt have bought a hummer then.

  • Big Jim Slade

    “It’s sad that we live in a society where many people’s car payments have led them to foreclosure. ”

    Absurd. NOBODY would choose their car payment over getting evicted.

  • FrequentPoster

    If you revile me, I consider it a compliment.

  • Norge

    The public voted down fixing the Mercer Mess on at least two occasions — at about the same time Paul Allen was pushing the Commons Park – BTG money was not to be used on the Mercer Mess — but obviously the City manipulated BTG funds for Paul Allen’s neighborhood.  Paul Allen is only concerned with the SLU neighborhood — he doesn’t care about West Mercer.  The more traffic backup on West Mercer — the less traffic in front of his numerous properties in SLU.  Thank goodness Bill Gates has opened his offices on Mercer — now the taxpayers of Seattle will have to appease Bill Gates and fix Mercer West.   

  • Anonymous

    In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s not just me. I just find you pathetic after getting over my flash of anger at your violent and obnoxious posts. I’m on blogs to learn and to educate, to participate in a community dialogue; your goal appears to be to piss off people who hold ideas and ideals that you revile.

  • FrequentPoster

    No one wants to vote against “families and education.” I did vote against, but I had some second thoughts.

  • FrequentPoster

    I’m on this blog to fart in your general direction. Well, not just you. Come on, don’t you ever get tired of that insufferably, comically earnest and self-righteous hypocrite you see in the mirror? “What? Me? But … but … but … I’m so good!”

  • Anonymous

    I don’t recall any public votes on Mercer Mess, and I can find no evidence of such digging around on internet. Lots of City Council votes, sure. Was Mercer project hidden in BTG or some other public levy?

    I agree with you about Paul Allen; a self-entitled 1%er for sure

  • Anonymous

    No. And I don’t lie.

  • Norge

    Replying to Another Neighborhood Activist — this is quote from Nick Licata in October 2008

    ·                
    Bridging the Gap did not specify the
    Mercer Project:

    A few of the arterial improvements
    were mega-projects, such as the Spokane Street Viaduct interchange, the Lander
    Street Overpass and the Mercer Corridor Project. These three projects were not
    included in the property tax levy and thus were never directly voted on by the
    public. Instead the City Council directed two new taxes, the commercial parking
    tax and the employee tax, to fund them. These taxes remain in force until the
    Council removes them, unlike the property levy which ends in 2015.
    Outside of this, check out the Searttle Times as follows:  Editorial 5/21/2008; 11/25/2006 Article by Mike Lindbloom
    Searttle PI – 5/12/2008 and 2/20/09 articles by Larry Lange
    To make it brief the BTG is paid for by tax payer levy.  Bonds to be issued to pay for Mercer Street by the City Council with no vote of the public. 
    The City Council has used BTG money on the Mercer project.

  • Anonymous

    norge–Thanks for your excellent memory. Here’s the link for those who want to read this specific Licata newsletter which is a lengthy discussion of Mercer and transportation funding generally.

    Licata is so prescient; this should be required reading for McGinn and Council before they revisit transportation issue after defeat of Prop 1.

  • FrequentPoster

    Oh, blow it out your ass, hypocrite. The “regressivity” issue is a phony. Liberals couldn’t give a shit about it. If you did care, yiu wouldn’t have supported tolling the roads, which is much more regressive, and much more expensive, than a $60 increase in license tabs.

  • Johns

    To be precise (and I wish the Seattle Times piece had been more accurate) the Bicycle Master Plan is not something that “McGinn wants to do over”. The plan itself called for an update at the 5-year mark, which makes sense since the state-of-the-art in bicycle facilities, and the City itself, have changed, and will undoubtedly change more going forward. You can argue the cost of the update, but it’s not a “McGinn wants to do over” issue.

  • Johns

    RossB,

    New sidewalks are tremendously expensive. To build out the Tier 1 projects in the City’s Pedestrian Master Plan would take $840 million – and Prop 1 would have raised ~$200 million over 10 years. Currently the City spends approximately $15 million/year on pedestrian projects, and certainly not all of that is new sidewalk construction, not even close.

    I’m a pedestrian advocate, and I voted for Prop 1 for a variety of reasons, knowing the tax method was less than ideal. And I would have been pleased to see new $$ for sidewalk construction, focused around safe routes to schools, arterials and transit access. But even with the new money from Prop 1, we’d continue to have an enormous backlog of sidewalk construction.

    As Bill B said above, there are residential streets (north of 85th in particular) where we should be looking at options other than traditional curb/gutter sidewalk construction.

  • Johns

    Again, the State didn’t give the City the option of a gas tax for the TBD. The County has the authority to levy a local option gas tax, which is something I would support. Additionally, the car tab authority given was strictly a blanket fee, with no exemptions. I would hope that this short session in Olympia will feature some lobbying by those who voted against Prop 1 to help come up with better tax options.

  • Girl w/o bangs

    Sounds like he’s willing to pay to use it. It just needs to be build first.

  • FrequentPoster

    Or someone who will lie about having voted against Prop. 1. If “Olympia” tries to put the fix in, then “Olympia” is going to be in trouble. There’s an election next year, and the Democrat’s edge has already diminished. Best not to pull on the tail of 60% of the voters of Seattle.

  • blah blah

    1. I don’t support tolling all roads or most.
    2. regressivity is fact, not opinion, and you be wrong dude.
    3. yes, it’s too sad some liberals don’t seem to give a shit about it, glad you agree with me.
    could you do so less violently please?
    4. tolling is not more regressive as it’s tied to use.
    5. like most I have principles that are a bit flexible.

  • some, not all.

    amigo, you have other progressives who want higher taxes, communist health care for all a/k/a medicar for all, regulating wall street, kindergarten programs for all, transit, roads repaired, some bike stuff, and do not want regressive taxes like the VLF.  this is a set of policies that’s fairly consistent.  only some progressives are into the regressive VLF.

  • use the normal taxes

    or, the city could just use its own normal taxing power to do it instead of falling for the ultra regressive options the olympia anti poor crowd just wets its pants for liberals in seattle to use, all part of their long term strategy to show liberals fuck up government and will just tax you to death, a strategem liberals too often fall for.

  • Anonymous

    Re #3: “Liberals” who don’t care about regressivity are not liberal (or at least not being liberal on the issue at hand). Remember, the opposite of regressive taxes is progressive, an alternate name for liberal. Go far enough left and the maxim is “from each according to their ability,” the ultimate statement of progressivity. As for FP, getting him to be flexible (or nuanced) is like convincing a rock to be less hard.