Phoenix Jones Loses Job, Barred From Working With Children

If any average civilian went in to stop the violent brawls that led to his arrest he’d be looked at as a hero. So now a bunch of kids with autism have lost the man who has been at their side for years. No charges were filed and the evidence I’ve seen on video shows the violence he stopped and not the frolicking and dancing the SPD statements describe. I guess in Seattle you’re guilty until proven innocent.

Makes me so sad. Autistic children have a hard enough time with other people, but taking someone close to them away is going to set them back a bunch. Phoenix did nothing wrong.

Rich and Danny, you really believe that after EVERYONE involved (except Phony Jones) says they are friends who were just dancing and having fun? What he did was a violent unprovoked attack on a group of friends who were doing no wrong. Phony Jones is violent and dangerous; he should be nowhere near vulnerable individuals. Hooray for DSHS! They did right for once.

@godofthebasement you sound mad. maybe you were one of the violent people that got pepper sprayed?

Hooray for godofthebasement for having no brains

God is delusional!?

someone unplug the modem in godofthebasements basement

did you actually watch the slowed down video? you can clearly see an altercation that he did not provoke prior to his arrival. 

godofthebasement = trollolol

Nobody agrees with godofthebasement.

Apparently I have to repeat: the statements of EVERYONE involved.

Apparently I have to repeat: the statements of EVERYONE involved.

I think this guy is awesome and to lose his job when he hasn’t even been charged is disgusting. Keep up the good work Phoenix Jones, your fans in the UK love you.

I know I shouldn’t take the bait, but what the hell.
You people need to face reality: life isn’t a comic book. According to all of you, any of us can violently attack anyone one the street for no reason, and that’s not only OK, apparently it’s admirable. So: unprovoked violence by people in stupid costumes: good! A group of friends dancing in the street: very very bad. And yes I’ve seen the vedeo (of UFO/Bigfoot quality) many times, it doesn’t show squat.

That’s because godofthebasement is the only person on the thread who doesn’t jack off to comic books. That’s because godofthebasement lives in the real world.

keep up the good work! The world needs more like you!

Poor godofthebasement; he only sees what he wants to see. Sad.

Guilty until proven innocent I see. There’s no charges against him. The police obviously handled this wrong, if it was assault they should have detained all parties being charged with assault. And you don’t take them unless charges are being filed. You don’t refuse to talk to a witness with a camera of what happened. You claim the video doesn’t show anything (I disagree, but that’s not important here), you know ZERO charges were filed against him, you also claim he’s guilty. Apparently the police don’t think he’s guilty enough to make charges stick, but you do.

Did you watch the same video (or “vedeo” as the case may be…) that the rest of the class watched?  You’ll hear no argument from me that the camera work being performed by the videographer is shoddy, hardly war-photographer quality- but in his defense he was being assaulted at the time, by the people you say were “dancing”.  Even if the quality of his footage is not fantastic, the resolution is more than enough, and he stays on target well enough to clearly see that anyone saying that Phoenix Jones pepper-sprayed some people dancing cause he’s a menace to society- anyone saying this can only possibly be a troll, because it’s literally not possible to be that stupid.

godofthebasement needs to pull his head from his ass. Phoenix Jones BROKE UP a fight in the streets, using pepper spray and a video camera. Then he got chased around by two drunk fat chicks that could hardly stand up. They were NOT freakin dancing you idiot.

The same scared, spineless and, insecure people who hide in the closets of their house at night fearing their shadow would be the ones who would try to keep dedicated and altruistic individuals from helping anyone and everyone else.  Cowards die many times before their deaths-  The valiant never taste of death but once. Keep up the fight Phoenix, the tough road and the right road are usually one and the same.

Meh, in my opinion I don’t really think spraying someone with pepper spray is really that violent. Sure it might irritate for awhile but in my mind it really don’t sound violent.

Life imitates art.  Pheonix Jones is much like a comic book hero.  A normal guy who at times wears a costume and tries to stop crimes.  The only difference between a superhero and a cop is- superheroes don’t get paid (most often) and superheroes are not TOOLS of the government out to meet their quotas by giving people tickets for nonsense and such.  I admire Phoenix Jones for having courage and imagination and I hope money-wise things become better for him.  Soon.

  godofthebasement is a stubborn troll who has deluded him/herself into thinking Phoenix Jones attacked a random group of strangers, why can’t you accept the fact that some people are trying to make the world a better place? Not everyone has to sink to your level.

Seriously, what he does on his own time should be irrelevant to his job as long as it isn’t a crime. And it ISN’T. Totally absurd to fire him over this. If I had a special needs kid, I’d be thrilled to have someone who is willing to put his money where his mouth is, like Phoenix, to be his teacher. This guy is the real deal and people need to respect him for it instead of throw mud at him.

Knowing a thing or two about DSHS and civil liability, especially as it pertains to vulnerable citizens, they are doing the right thing.  Whenever there is any reason to believe someone working with or caring for a vulnerable citizen may endanger that person, it is incumbent upon the Department to disallow contact until the investigation against them is over.

In this scenario, if Mr. Fodor was with one of his clients, and decided to intervene in a crime, and that client were injured, the State could very well be held liable for those injuries, having the knowledge they currently have about Mr. Fodor. 

Just a bit of perspective.

This would be the same as any person who was with a client of the same responsibility who may or may not inject themselves in a crime. Here is a perspective – ask yourself these questions: what if Mr. Fodor was a person who went with police as a volunteer and therefore was more likely (and perhaps be in the same situation that had to do with his ultimate unmasking)  to be in the middle of assisting police with criminals. Would he still have a job with autistic people? Has in the last year or so in which Mr. Fodor was fighting crime ever any of his clients injured because of what he does when he is not with his former clients – even threatened? What if he was a part time police officer?
In regards to the investigation – he was never charged. There have been voiced pending charges – for how long does he have to wait for these pending (I hear the words, “right to a speedy trial” as I write this) charges? In court the video showed him breaking up a fight and him getting assaulted but not hitting back and no charges were filed though his property was stolen by the police.
Another final perspective, does Mr. Fodor lose? No, he will find another job or probably get much more money than he had watching autistic kids. Ultimately, the losers are the kids he was helping out. Sad perspective indeed.

The video shows a man being punched and grappling with two other men, at one point having his shirt taken off. So either they’re fighting, or they have some wacked out mosh pit dance moves I’ve never seen before. Either way, Jones ran in to stop it, and in turn got beaten by some chick in her shoes. Later, when he told the group that his men called plice and they were on their way, 3 men started walking towards him. He told them to stay away, and they charged. I’m sorry, but if three drunk guys started charging me, and I had a can of bear mace, I’d use it, too. Self defense if I ever saw it.

Where did you get this whole comic book thing? Not a single person on here said any of the things you are claiming they said. Of course spontaneous act of violence are terrible, but nobody said differently. And, you automatically believe the people that have all the reason they need to lie to the cops? 
You my friend need to get a better grip on reality.

Here’s the video so you can judge for yourselves instead of listening to possible lying eyewitnesses.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/10/phoenix-jones-attacked-by-stilletto-the-full-arrest-video/

I don’t think he should have lost his job based on it, but the video I saw did not show a fight it should some people drunkenly stumbling around until he charged them at which point one fell down.  

There is a good question raised here, which I can’t believe I can actually legitimately ask in the real world: if I stumble across a crime walking down the street and stop it happening, I’m a hero. If I do it three times in a year, I’m still a hero. But put on a mask or costume, and I’m viewed different because I went looking for the crime? I can’t believe I get to write that question…

And, all that said…

My Dad once tried to help a woman he thought was being assaulted on the El in NYC.

The girl told him that the guy was her boyfriend and to mind his own business.

That seems to apply here.  There was no cry for help and the “victim” assaulted Jones.

What can you say…?

John Bailo is mentally deficient:

It is NOT the same, since it wasn’t the fat skanky whores who were being assaulted, it was the guys their friends were targetting and then tried to run over.

Get a clue jackass. 

Taking a long-time care worker away from Autistic children is going to play havoc on those kids’ lives. It is the worst possible decision as the children will suffer because of this.

The guy did nothing wrong. I don’t see how breaking up a fight is a terrible crime. If they’d done their research they’d had viewed the video and come to the conclusion that Phoenix Jones was working within the boundaries of the law and was trying to break up a fight. He defuses situations AND calls the cops at the same time. I know the cynical person in all of us is quick to come to the conclusion he’s a nutcase, but from what I’ve seen he is not. He doesn’t go around beating people up. And he doesn’t spray pepperface into a crowd for no good reason. For an accurate view of how he works, check out his videos on youtube.

Regardless of what did or did not happen in the video, The state has once again messed up these kids lives. Kids who are autistic need schedules and they grow very attached to people. He was not attacking anyone while he was at work. He never put those kids in danger.     

I agree! Let the man do his work!

this is disgusting… 

lets keep punishing people for doing good.

Please do not let injustice sadden your heart, PHOENIX! They will get their reward for the EVIL they commit, YOU will get rewarded for all the GOOD you do..

A: I’m just pointing out the facts.  If Mr. Fodor were to cause injury to one of his clients while injecting himself into a hostile situation, and DSHS knew he had a history of doing so, then there would be outcry against Mr. Fodor.

As for your example – if he were “volunteering” with police, and they allowed him to “assist” with criminals, and he was injured, then he would likely have a cause of action against the police.  Hands on assisting in the manner he does would not be tolerated.  If shit’s going down and someone is riding along with police, they get to stay in the car, not get in the middle of the action. 

Regardless, he hasn’t been charged yet.  There is an ongoing police investigation, and in order to ensure that the kids are protected, that needs to finish.  Additionally, DSHS should (and I imagine likely will) also do an investigation to determine whether or not he should still be licensed to work with extremely vulnerable children. 

But in the end, it is the duty of DSHS to err on the side of caution, and I’m glad they do.  If he really cared about the kids, he wouldn’t be crying about him losing a job, but would instead be cooperative with all investigations, and prove that he is not a threat.

Wow, a ton of very..fervent Phoenix Jones defenders here. One thing no one’s mentioned – now that he’s had his identity revealed, don’t you think that makes him a target?  I mean, I know this isn’t comics and the Green Goblin or the Joker isn’t gonna come in and throw his girlfriend off a bridge or something, but regular pissed off morons do more than enough damage without needing to be supervillains.  If some nutjob went after him for being Phoenix Jones and one of the kids got hurt, the parents would be outraged (and I might say rightfully so), and might have cause to go after DSHS or the state.  It sucks that he’s losing his job here, but it looks like the state’s just covering its ass.

This is the kind of bonehead decision that comes from having social services in the hands of the state rather than private non-profit organizations.  

Fact: His clients were never with him while he was on patrol. What threatening incident happened during his 5 years with the kids he was helping? What evidence is there that they are at risk – you can’t bring up the breaking the fight up incident because he was not found guilty? Fact: He was not found guilty – nor has there been raised a reasonable time line on a trial whereby his guilt could be claimed, and in the US you are presumed innocent until proven otherwise, regardless of the possibility of guilt. Based on his past 5 years with the kids he worked for, what items can you or anyone produce that he was putting the kids at risk on the job?

Do you think the night of the fight he broke up he should have stood by and done nothing? Would you have stood by if you had his day job of helping kids or let’s say a surgeon who needs to keep his hands in perfect shape to save lives the next day? Would you stand by and do nothing and wait the 20+ minutes after calling 911 for the police to take care of it? Situations happen like this. http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/26/understanding-the-bystander-effect/ (Note the story’s quote, “I didn’t want to be involved.”) And yes, volunteers and people who are in the sidelines can be called into action if the police are overwhelmed by the criminal element or there is an issue regarding their immediate safety, though this is admittedly rare. http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/state/caught-on-camera%3A-passer-by-saves-dayton-police-officer-during-traffic-stop

I do agree with you that DSHS *should* at least have done an investigation or something rather than remove him from his job in the middle of his work day apparently without warning or giving him a chance to talk about the incident and if it would cause a problem with the kids he took care of. None of this was done from what I have read, and if I were a betting man I think I would be richer if I put the odds on DSHS not doing an investigation in the future, because they have already taken action. Some reports are even writing that Mr. Fodor can’t take care of kids in any occupational capacity anymore.

Lets take this argument about Mr. Fordor being a risk a step further, he has small kids of his own that he takes care of with his wife. Now that his identity is known, should he take care of these kids too? Or should these kids (who are younger, and arguably just as vulnerable as the kids he took care of on the job) not be watched by Mr. Fodor, their father, either? Perhaps this sounds like a silly argument, but the risks are realistically similar and if he can take care of his kids, I argue he can take care of autistic kids he has for the last five years without any issues that we know of.

Someone who dresses up in a costume at night and goes looking for crime shows a clear mental instability.  Thank God DSHS took this action.  Who knows when this guy was going to crack.

Five years with the kids in his employ and more than a year in costume and he hasn’t cracked – unlikely he would have. He comes across in interviews as very intelligent and passionate about what he does.

Yes because as the video shows, CLEARLY throwing arms around at someones body/face is a dance move. Just because a group of people say they are doing one thing, doesn’t mean that’s the truth.

Quote from the Seattle Times to put this in perspective on who the victim was:
“About midnight Saturday, Fabio Heuring, 27, was on a sidewalk outside
Pioneer Square’s Trinity Bar, fearing he was about to get beaten up by
three men after an altercation in the bar spilled outside.

Just then, Phoenix Jones appeared out of nowhere and squirted the
trio with pepper spray, Heuring said. Police later responded, logging
the incident as a questionable use of pepper spray. But Heuring said
Fodor was a hero.

“He really saved us from a potential beat-down,” said Heuring, of Auburn.”

58 likes? I’ve been reading this shitrag since it first plopped out of josh’s ass and I’ve never seen anywhere near that amount for anything, let alone for this clown. Something stinks.

Stabilized video shows much more clearly what was happening and can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQMbZzhScgU

Ben Fodor, You should get a new laywer and sue DSHS based on the fact that you are technically immune from State prosecution and liability under Washington States “Good Samaritan” laws.

You should sue in Civil Court that DSHS violated your civil rights. A case could be made, however tenuously, that you were acting to prevent injury to others. You were certainly within your rights to protect yourself and as far as being fired for inserting yourself into dangerous situations, just working with “some” autistic children would create that situation within the scope of your job, let alone living and working in Downtown Seattle.

You should also file a Freedom of Information suit to obtain all of their employees work records to determine if DSHS had ever hired a policeman or Sherriff to work with children.

Michael -

Using your logic, shouldn’t the state also restrict anyone convicted of a DUI? Even a state employee who receives a speeding ticket has demonstrated their propensity to interject themselves into dangerous situations.

Us fans of PJ have read many comics.  When Stark, Parker, and the others had to reveal their names for the Government, they didn’t become targets any more than when they were behind the mask.  It just made them more accessible in the minds of their ‘new audience’.  Made them like Us.  No crazies in masks, but our neighbors trying to do good (and in the past, have been punished for it…(for the masks))

and get that eyewitness that called you a hero for saving him up in that joint!

If you’ve read many comics, then I’m going to assume you’re familiar with One More Day. For those who aren’t, this is the storyline in Spider-Man coming out of Civil War (where Spider-Man revealed his identity).  The storyline where Aunt May gets shot (although I believe they were trying to get Mary Jane).  Where Peter ends up giving up his marriage to the devil to save her (and get his identity secret again).  The whole reason we’re into Brand New Day and the stories that spun out of that.  That wouldn’t have happened if Peter never revealed who he was.

Remember how Gwen Stacy died?  Green Goblin knew who Spider-Man was, and threw her off a bridge.

Batman got framed for murder because someone knew his identity and killed someone close to him (well, Bruce Wayne did, but it was set up so the people who knew he was Batman thought Batman did it).

I’m sure I could think of more examples given more than five minutes, but I think my point is proven.  Not that “it never happened in the comics” really means anything one way or the other.  We don’t have witness protection programs for no reason, after all.

I think what you are referring to is or is similar to ‘a duty to rescue.’  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue .. from this article: “A duty to rescue arises where a person creates a hazardous situation. If
another person then falls into peril because of this hazardous
situation, the creator of the hazard – who may not necessarily have been
a negligent tortfeasor – has a duty to rescue the individual in peril.”I believe there was a hazard introduced by three men that night.I like too your suggestion in the last paragraph and maybe extend it to any work that where they may ‘inject’ themselves into potential injury (eg: a paramedic who enters a dangerous situation in order to do their work.)

I’m not up to date on Washington’s Good Samaritan laws, but my understanding of those types of laws in general is that they protect someone trying to give medical assistance who might accidentally do more harm instead and/or make it a crime to not offer reasonable help to someone who is seriously injured.  As far as I know they don’t allow someone to intervene in fights.

@Coren,@57f8bfa083428ce910cb2c4dd755c0c6:disqus 
Please try the following link to Washington State’s web page and search for the RCW statutes for Good Samrital Laws for further details. If you combine this first statute with the intent of the lower staute, then perhaps Mr. Fodor should be offered his job back with compensation for wrongful termination.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/pages/search.aspx

RCW 9.01.055
Citizen immunity if aiding officer, scope — When.
Private citizens aiding a police officer, or other officers of the law in the performance of their duties as police officers or officers of the law, shall have the same civil and criminal immunity as such officer, as a result of any act or commission for aiding or attempting to aid a police officer or other officer of the law, when such officer is in imminent danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury or when such officer requests such assistance and when such action was taken under emergency conditions and in good faith.
[1969 c 37 § 1.]
[1969 c 37 § 1.]
 

RCW 7.69.010
Intent.
In recognition of the severe and detrimental impact of crime on victims, survivors of victims, and witnesses of crime and the civic and moral duty of victims, survivors of victims, and witnesses of crimes to fully and voluntarily cooperate with law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies, and in further recognition of the continuing importance of such citizen cooperation to state and local law enforcement efforts and the general effectiveness and well-being of the criminal justice system of this state, the legislature declares its intent, in this chapter, to grant to the victims of crime and the survivors of such victims a significant role in the criminal justice system. The legislature further intends to ensure that all victims and witnesses of crime are treated with dignity, respect, courtesy, and sensitivity; and that the rights extended in this chapter to victims, survivors of victims, and witnesses of crime are honored and protected by law enforcement agencies, prosecutors, and judges in a manner no less vigorous than the protections afforded criminal defendants.
[1985 c 443 § 1; 1981 c 145 § 1.]
[1985 c 443 § 1; 1981 c 145 § 1.]

Everything is going just as I planned.
HHHAAAAAA HHHAAAA HHHAAA

Good bye Phoenix Jones

Coren, Look above at my ‘duty to rescue’ quote as well as the reference in the Wikipedia article – I thought the same about the Good Samaritan idea when I read more about it (which I feel is unfortunate in a civilized society). But the duty to rescue is a bit more clear about helping your fellow man when it is obvious there is clear and present danger.

Which statements? Because the party’s statement keeps changing.

With a handle like “godofthebasement?” Really? You’re going to make that claim with that handle? Seriously?

I’m sorry but I am a comic geek. I’ve read them since I was a kid. I am obsessed with superheroes and the idea of justice winning every time…

I’m also a parent. I’ve got 2 small boys, both under 4 years old. Forgive me for wanting a safe world for my children to grow up in, forgive me for being scared that knife and gun crime here in the UK where I live is going up. I carried these small persons inside my body for 9 months each, I nearly died giving birth to both of them due to my body being stupid and broken and I currently struggle as a single mum bringing them up. If we had someone like Phoenix Jones patrolling the streets in my town I would sleep a lot easier in my bed. If we had someone like him looking out for people I would feel safer going out to buy milk. I’m not neurotic, I know the chances of anything actually happening to me and/or my children are slim but I’m also a realist. when the police wont do anything to help, when the governments have let us down, we need someone to fight for what is right and that’s why, in my opinion, Phoenix Jones is a hero. Believe me, were I five years younger and not a parent (and a couple of lb’s lighter… haha), I’d be considering doing the same thing.

Superzero fail.

They’re children and adults with autism. Not autistic children.