The Case for Lowering Speed Limits

I wonder if McGinn wouldn’t have more success as a sort of Manchurian advocate at this point. Publicly take sides that he actually disagrees with, simply because so many people might automatically do the opposite of what McGinn wants.

Actually, could work for Obama too.

Probably has nothing to do with either forcing urban density (longer commute times, lower quality of life) or The Cult of the Bicycle…

Your understanding of the matter has a lot to do with your being a retarded dipshit.

For those who aren’t retarded dipshits, a map of the city’s arterials is here:

http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/streetclassmaps/planweb.pdf

Pretty much any street that people frequently drive long distances on will be an arterial.

i’m all for this. 

but there is no reason that residential streets need to have speed limits above 15MPH.  we’re talking about seconds in additional travel time in exchange for streets that are safer not only for the dreaded bicyclists but for kids too.

If there is going to be legislation to reduce speed limits for the safety of bicyclists, there should also be legislation that applies directly to the cyclist. This legislation should state that a bicyclist must have a headlight and taillight. They must have reflectors on the bicycle and on their person. They must wear bright construction-type orange or fluorescent yellow vests on their person with reflective material.

Bicyclists ride on the side of the road where cars are not accustomed to looking. The are often riding next to parked cars and blend in. They do not stand out and may not ride defensively. They need to take part of the responsibility for own their safety.

We get this request from neighbors every week. Will be in Olympia to testify in support of this one.

Bicyclists must have a front headlight and rear reflector when riding in the street after dark (Revised Code of Washington 46.61.780). Bicycles also must have a working brake. Bicyclists in streets are subject to all rules of the road (RCW 46.61.755), although that same RCW allows them to be considered pedestrians when riding on the sidewalk.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0bmgeriXnjI/TpvAdt4aGXI/AAAAAAAAAGE/g37w6uuidzs/s1600/photo-797501.JPG

I am now convinced that Publicola’s writers are living in mom’s basement. Speed limits on many neighborhood streets are already 20 miles an hour. It’s that way all over where I live. And to emphasize the point, there are big circular planters smack in the middle of a whole lot of interesections. The same ones, of course, that the cyclista nazis now want to remove so they can turn side streets into bicycle freeways for their psychotic, fixie-riding, organ donor wannabe friends.

But still, Erica, you blithering, obtuse idiot, you do need to get out and look around the city you so clearly have little knowledge of. Now, on the other hand, if you bastards want to cut arterial speed limits to 20, that’s a whole ‘nother ball of wax. I see that your good buddy, Mayor McDope, wants carte blanche authority to reduce speed limits. Judging from his lies about the waterfront tunnel, his stated rationale is so many farts in the wind.

As for Michael Wang, well, if you want to penalize every motorist in this city because some bicyclist got run over, then you and your friends better be prepared for Seattle’s voters to tell you that this ain’t some kind of junior high school that you’re trying to run. Better pay attention to what happens to your oh-so-treasured Prop. 1 on Nov. 8th, because trust me, there’s more where it came from.

why does this seem to crush your soul?

I’m now convinced Frequie is stuck in mom’s basement cuz the door done shrunk.

Why are you so angry?

the article is pretty clear that this effort is about “non-arterial roads.”

and I’m pretty sure dozens of people wouldn’t be working on this initiative if it simply already existed.

so instead of calling Erica a “blithering, obtuse, oblivious idiot,” maybe take a look at the legislation and the roads it would apply to. then you can decide for yourself, without insulting anyone, whether this is the “cyclista nazi” plot you think it is.

FP- I believe you may be mistaken.  All non-arterial streets have a defacto speed limit of 25 mph.  As part of an effort years ago, Seattle installed Residential Street warning signs with a 20-mph advisory speed sign.  It is not the regulatory speed limit.

Also, many areas have a 20-mph speed limit during school hours, but as the name suggests, it is only during school hours.

Erica- Just curious but where did you get the information that the motorist that hit Mike Wang was traveling at approximately 45 mph?  From what I heard (and this was based on the Seattle Times), the motorist was taking a left turn in front of him.  Is it even possible to take that turn at 45 mph without flipping?  Not trolling, just wondering.

REally? I wonder how those three assholes riding up 15th ave Saturday night, 3 abreast in the right lane, no lights, no helmets, managed to ride past a cop and not get ticketed.

No I agree, Mike Wang was hit in an intersection.   45 miles on a left turn in the intersection?  Would be cool to see. In fact did any of the three recent deaths have to do with a speed over 20?  It’s truly irresponsible journalism to report in this way.  Erica, I would like to see your source.  Also, I am all for this legislation, as long as they make it illegal for bikes to be on sidewalks.

Because there is absolutely no track record of the Mayor trying to negatively impact automobile commuters and no one is actively fighting for dedicated corridors for bikes.  He only left out “for the children” this time.

The same way nearly every driver ever who drives past a cop while exceeding the speed limit manages not to get ticketed probably.

because he’s a troll

It amazes me that real people exist that are against this. Do you ever walk across the street to go to a store? Do your confine your children to the back yard? Do you go anywhere that doesn’t have a parking lot?

Maybe you just live in the suburbs and want to get home as quickly as possible.

The way some people drive in residential areas is beyond shameful. If a community wants to lower the speed limit to 10mph and put in speed bumps they should be able to.

Have to admit this is a good idea, grudgingly, and for me it’s not about bicyclists. Anyone who lives in a residential area has experienced the reckless drivers who treat side streets like arterials creating a hazard for everyone. BTW, for a city that prides itself on being progressive, it’s amazing how non-chalant people here are about driving through school zones, around school buses, and other safety issues that other big cities have zero tolerance for.  

Arterials should be 25 mph, all other streets should be 15. ALL roads should be 5 mph when retarded children or bicyclists are present. This is a small price to pay for the protection of society’s most vulnerable.

http://i55.tinypic.com/hs81e0.jpg

Crosswalk paint costs money.  A pedestrian could jaywalk, how would I identify and report them if not for a visible shoe license plate or dog tags?  And sidewalks cost money and cars aren’t even allowed to use them!  Let’s have the people using these public facilities pay for it.  

Ah yes, the all purpose trolling accusation, the last refuge of the lazy Internet fuckwit.

Last year’s bill sailed through the state house and died in the senate,
in Mary Margaret Haugen’s (D-10) notoriously cyclist-unfriendly
transportation committee. This year, it’s one of the top items on the
bicycling lobby’s agenda.

After Nov. 8th, the politicians in Olympia will understand that they can safely ignore the cyclista lobby.

Well, I learned something: The 20 mph limits aren’t limits at all. Thanks for telling me. Cyclistas, beware.

Only if all cyclistas have to be preceded by a dwarf carrying a red flag.

I have made that left turn many times. It’s how you get to Aurora northbound from Denny eastbound. It is impossible to make that left turn at 45. You simply can’t get up to that speed. in the short block from Denny to Thomas. Erica is making shit up as usual. It is incorrect to call it “irresponsible journalism” because it isn’t journalism at all. It’s propagandizing. 

Besides that, none of this has anything to do with being able to lower speed limits on nonarterial streets. That’s strictly an issue of neighborhood autonomy, and only a narcissistic sociopath would have a problem with it.

Should be “short two blocks.” 

ah yes, the all purpose threat of the lazy internet fuckwit.

So, I think the issue here is not the *lack* of laws that apply to cyclists but indeed the lack of active *enforcement*.

I’ve heard (ad nauseum) that license tags on bikes would make it easier for police to enforce these laws, but I don’t see many cyclists running from the cops after infractions.

And the counter to this point is (again, ad nauseum) that license tags would make it easier for motorists to report scofflaw cyclists? Please. When is the last time anyone reported a scofflaw motorist – running a stop sign or red light, failing to yield to pedestrians when such did NOT result in pedestrian injury – and received satisfaction that the scofflaw motorist was apprehended/cited?

So just because a law is passed (and our legislature is radomized even more off of more important topics),  you REALLY think people will slow down, or that it wil be able to be enforced given our already short staffed police department?  That is kind of cute, it really is.

We already pay for it Kevin – all of us.  It’s called taxes.  So I assume what you’re really saying is, “Those of us who choose not to use it don’t want to pay for it anymore.”  The problem with that ideology is that you assume those who don’t “use” it receive no benefit from it.  This is typically not the case.  For instance motorists benefit from bus riders who reduce the number of cars on the road.  In this case one could easily argue that the motorist is receiving the better end of the deal.  So, who should realy pay for all of these things?  Let’s be a cmmunity and take some responsibility for each other for once. 

Jim, why don’t you read up a little before making a fool of yourself. Lights & reflectors are already in the law.

Police cannot act on eyewitness reports of infractions.

And as soon as you squish a kid, we’ll find out your real  name, and name the bill after you. 

By your logic we should remove speed limits in residential areas, because the cops are too busy. Very cute.

Most people follow the law. And most people will not be effected by this law, since they give a shit about their neighbors and already drive slowly in residential areas. The law will just make it easier for the overworked police to ticket violators.

70% of all drivers go over the existing speed limits.  maybe in addition to lowering limits, we should enforce those we already have?  sadly, too many media and activists focus on changing the law, not on how government actually operates to enforce or in this case not enforce the law.  the nonenforcement techniques include the unwritten code it’s okay to go over about 10 mph at a 40mph limit or  5 at 25 or 30.  why not declare “starting monday we will ticket everyone going over the speed limit.”  in about two days, driver conduct would change.  btw enforcement OR lowering limits is more doable politically if it isn’t framed as for the safety of cyclists it should be for the safety of everyone, drivers included, and btw bring up insurance rates which are our means of socializing the costs of the automobile.  I’d also say the lack of real coverage in most policies is more a threat to a cyclist, you get paralyzed by a negligent driver their little teeny $300K auto policy will cover about six months of the long term care you will need.  why not require $3 million in coverage for all drivers?  it’s only about $500 a year more. 

They should lower it to 20 mph on arterials as well…any place there is an interface between significant pedestrian and bicycle traffic.   It will help improve the laminar flow.

You realize of course that Seattle is about 10 miles in radius.  With a maximum trip of 20 miles, at 30 mph the trip would take 40 minutes…and at the new speed limit 60 minutes.

So given the worse case trip at the lowest speed….is 20 minutes too high a price to pay for a child’s life?

Please provide a link that bikers want to remove the intersection planters.

And they still use cell phones while driving!

It’s ironic to cite “simple physics” in support of this when the point of the legislation is to bypass engineering studies — i.e. science, fact-based decision making — and let speed limits be set politically. So whenever there’s an accident or a bunch of nimbys get together and raise a stink, city hall throws them a bone by arbitrarily lowering a speed limit.

All because we can’t afford traffic engineering studies. But we can afford an exponential increase in speed limit signage to map out which blocks are host to neighborhood activists or are notorious because an accident happened there? And we can afford the cops to enforce it? Oh, wait, McGinn is going to tell the cops “work smarter, not harder” right?

It’s all distraction to make activists feel like they’re influential and make politicians look like they’re leading. If you want safer traffic, spend money on real enforcement. Where to get the money? Fix the tax system.

Goddamnit, don’t people take any personal responsiblity for themselves, anymore?  “Well, if we lower the speed limit, cops will have to enforce it.”  “Well, you kids and cyclists need to be more careful.”  Point the finger, point the finger.  Driving a car is like handling a gun, you have to have respect for the fact that there are ethical issues involved.  It’s not rocket science that if you drive slower and keep more space between you and the object in front of you (the length of 1 car space if you’re driving 10mph, 2 car spaces at 20mph, and so on), less “accidents” will happen.  Wake up and say to yourself, “What can I do to drive more safely?  How can I pay more attention when I am at the wheel?” instead of all this entitlement BS because you own a car.  If people with guns acted the way people with cars did…

Mr. Miller, If you support slower speeds, why do you hate road diets so much? 

so you want to “fix the tax system” so we can pay for engineering studies to lower speed limits in residential areas?

I think Kevin was being sarcastic.

I want to fix the tax system so that local governments have the money to pay for whatever they need, be it engineering studies or hiring more cops.

Instead of governing by knee-jerk, no-cost, no-benefit responses to every media panic. The reason McGinn likes this sort of legislation is that he has a budget with no money in it, so he is looking for ways to show the public he is doing something. On the cheap, of course. On the cheap.

This is coming from the same folks who want to pass a lot of new penalties for drivers who hit bicyclists or pedestrians — all with no money for the police to enforce it, no money for courts to process all the violations, and no money for jails to punish offenders. Passing a lot of new laws is free, and it gets the loudmouths off your back. The hitch is that it wastes time while real problems go unsolved.

Why not get a 3 million dollar policy for your bike? Wouldn’t you feel much better knowing that if you get hit by an evil motorist you do not have to worry about whether or not he has insurance?

 I know I would not put my life on the line everyday by riding a bike on the street in the first place without having coverage.

Depends on the kid. Most of the time, yes.

Hey, you self-righeous geek, the personal responsibility here is to not ride your fixie so fast through rush hour traffic that you can’t maneuver out of the the way of a car that takes half your lane while beginning to make a left turn.

Where is “JN” to declare that sarcasm is the lowest form of humor?

“Success” and “McGinn” are incompatible terms, generally not to be used in the same sentence. But there some exceptions, such as, “We met success by recalling the least competent mayor in Seattle’s history, Michael McGinn.”

The proposal does not limit speed limit reductions to non-arterial streets. Given that McGinn is a proven liar, and his supporters are cyclista scum, drug dealers, drunks, and derelicts, I would not rely on their promises to keep any of this from affecting arterials.

Because cyclistas don’t give a shit about traffic laws, common sense, or their own lives.

How about a video?

The reason cyclistas don’t want license plates is because, by and large, they are destitute and childish freeloaders who will accept no responsibilities of any kind. That’s why their precious Proposition 1 is going to be stomped into the dust, face first, on November 8th. License plates or not, we’ve got your number, cyclistas!

The proposed legal change does not limit anything to non-arterials. Given McDope‘s track record of telling lies, and given that his supporters are lying cyclistas, drunks, addicts, and derelicts, I put zero faith in any promises that he or you might make with respect to how any legal changes might be applied.

Love it when the liberals go for “neighborhood autonomy,” until, say, the Roosevelt neighborhood says “Fuck you” to the city’s planner nazis. Then the liberals gang up on ‘em and call them the KKK.

Yeah, and now I bet you’re just a-hopin’ and a-prayin’ that I squish a cyclista, so you can advance your political goals. Every time some cyclist buys the farm, including when it’s through their own negligence, you people have a smugness orgasm and go crazy for whatever’s on your agenda at the moment.

Luckily, you don’t have to rely on drunks, addicts, or derelicts to decide which roads the new legislation would apply to…you can rely on FACTS!

Here’s the language from the legislation, which it takes just a second to click through to. The “obtuse, blithering idiot” Erica provided a neat link for you:

“Cities and towns in their respective jurisdictions mayestablish a maximum speed limit of twenty miles per hour on aNONARTERIAL highway, or part of a nonarterial highway, that is withina residence district or business district.”

just out of curiosity, who isn’t a Nazi?

You think there is some magic number of cops that would allow all laws to be enforced absolutely? There is: when every citizen is a cop. The logic that we can’t make laws because we don’t live in a police state strong enough to enforce every law is ludicrous.

Let’s start by removing speed limits in your neighborhood and McGinn’s neighborhood, but only when either of you is out riding your bike. Deal?

Enforce absolutely? No. Enforcing all laws “absolutely” would be unrealistic, wouldn’t it? And a “police state” would certainly be awful. Which is probably why I said no such thing. I also didn’t say we “can’t make laws”. I said making toothless, unfunded laws “wastes time” which could be better spent working on the real problem.

Straw man much?

So speed limits are toothless, unfunded laws? If not, which ones are? 

Oh, it still is. But before you go calling out others on it’s use, stop using it yourself.

Wrong again, asshole.

“For the children”  ……  the ultimate cheesy line

You post inflammatory insulting bullshit pretty much solely to start fights.

Even when I agree with you I think you’re the textbook definition of an internet troll.

The limit should be raised to 90 on arterial roads  and cars should be equipped with mid door buzz saws that cut any pedestrians and bicyclists in 1/2. Even if you are on the sidewalk.

Just out of curioisty, where do you get the idea I hate road diets?

Overnighter spewed: “So you’re saying these should not exist?”

Yes, I’m saying that because I’m trying as hard as I can to say super, super retarded things. I sit and think of the most absurd crap I can and post it because it makes you look smart, and making you look smart my goal.

Or…. maybe that’s your straw man talking again. You don’t know what a straw man is, do you? You just think straw man fallacies are the way humans talk to each other. “Can I have fries with that? “What! You’re saying you want to eat the entire Idaho potato crop deep fried?” “Uh, no. I just wanted fries with that.” “What? You want to stick your head in the fryer?” “Uh. No…”

Douche.

From your comments here and elsewhere.  Can you provide a statement in full support of road diets?  Cause we all know you don’t like them, David.

I’ve posted some background on this topic on our office blog: http://mayormcginn.seattle.gov/thoughts-on-recent-reports-regarding-speed-limits-in-seattle/

Yes…

All the way through 0-25MPH – people who get into accidents at these low speeds are going to have them no matter what the limit is. So long as they’re moving, someone is going to crash.

The streets of Seattle are dangerous because they just plain effing suck. They are poorly laid out, poorly maintained upon a shoddily laid foundation, and once again are going to be dangerous no matter what speed you travel at.

How many of you on bikes have hit a raised asphalt panel when not looking and lost control? How many cars lose control on a slippery road because the surface has been allowed to deteriorate into loose concrete and dirt-filled potholes?

There is no money to fix anything, and lowering speed limits will just keep people out of downtown, and make it more of a pain for businesses to operate there. Select roads now, but watch as the mayor makes it a blanket limit for the entire downtown corridor.

This, the viaduct/tunnel project, and looming economy… Good luck downtown, you’re gonna need it.

hello!  the proposal is for the speed limit on nonarterials, non 99, and non I 5!

I did read the large and fine print.  You should read all the comments.

I propose below just that — lower speed even on arterials.

It would help the laminar flow even on I-5 at rush hour.

I grew up on a street in Queens, NY.   It was a one lane, one way with two parking lanes on either side.

If a car showed up, we would go into singsong and say

Car, Car
C-A-R
Stick your head in a jelly jar.

And we would all hide between the parked cars.

However, that was in the 1960s.   And back then people did not use their cars as frequently.   For example, many women did not drive.   People would walk blocks and blocks to the grocery store. My Mom would take us four kids to Bohacks supermarket, and then “steal” a shopping cart and walk all the way back to the house, talking to neighbors along the way (boy, was that ever the most boring thing in the world!).

On Sunday’s there were still blue laws, so people went to church, ate, and that was it until Disney came on at 7.   So you could play scully and wiffle ball without too much traffic.

I remember bicycling back then, and even in the suburbs on a weekday, the side streets were deserted!

I personally fucking hate so-called “road diets” and follow the issue closely, and I’ve never heard a peep of opposition out of Mr. Miller on them (in fact – he has been quite active in working on neighborhood speed control issues in Maple Leaf).

If you’re going to try and demonize people, do keep your facts straight.

It’s ok, keep trying.

Kind of fatalistic, huh?  I think lowering speed limits on side roads is a great idea.  People park so close to corners now that you can’t see traffic coming.  If the speed limit were 20 perhaps people would actually drive 25 to 30.  That would be an improvement.

Also, bikes are problematic.  I’m pro-bike but they need to take some responsibility. I was driving on Greenwood and taking a left watching the pacing of cars to slide between when I didn’t see (but did miss thankfully) the cyclist in all his multi-colored garb which blended well with the storefronts who seemed to come out of nowhere.  I don’t know the answer but more caution from everybody can’t hurt. 

But then I guess everything is about business and money these days.  People are now expendable.

Whatever, trollista.

So when McGinn mostly stays out of the no tunnel campaign, y’all say he’s classless for that but when he brings attention to a stalled issue (that needs the attention) he should just not? It’s almost like he can’t win.

Point out those comments. I’d be interested to read them.

Last year’s bill sailed through the state house and died in the senate, in Mary Margaret Haugen’s (D-10) notoriously cyclist-unfriendly transportation committee. This year, it’s one of the top items on the bicycling lobby’s agenda.

HB 1217 died because it was a lie and street stakeholders finally caught up with it and nailed it to the wall in the senate after it was whisked through the house in a particularly dishonest fashion. “salied” is not the word I would have chosen.

Washington state law requires any speed limit set below 30mph to have an engineering study performed. The engineering studies are about $300, take a week, are performed at a rate of 100 per week in the state, and over 1,000 technicians are trained to perform them. They are standardized across the United States, not every city coming up with their own homebrew version as HB1217 allowed. That was nuts.

Because setting the speed limit inappropriately low causes traffic migration and other negative outcomes, the engineers often recommend against lowering them below the safe 85th percentile. If a problem exists, which the results often showed there was no problem, use traffic calming devices. The cyclists had a fit and decided to shoot the messenger, the traffic engineers, and just politicize the decision. The Senate wisely said NO! We do not shoot the messenger in this state.

If someone is foolish enough to try it again, the same 100 stakeholder groups are now much more organized and will stomp out this piece of stupidity again. The WSDOT and county Public Works Department Association were just two that said NO to this insanity.

This bit of brainlessness centered around a 14-year-old London study that concluded injuries are less serious at lower speeds. Duh! How about that for a revelation…

I hereby nominate “trollista” as the new “winning”. 

JN haz won the internets.

Typical liberal hypocrite. One set of rules for himself — none at at — and another for everyone else. This is exactly the same thing you see from the wingnuts on their websites.

I love you too, Mr. X.

Ah yes, the all purpose troll accusation, the last refuge of the lazy Internet fuckwit. What are you going to say about Seattle’s voters when they stomp your cherished Prop. 1 into the dirt, face-first, on Nov. 8th? Gonna call them “trolls,” too?

Excellent posting. Isn’t it interesting how liberals here are all about legal process, until it gets in the way of their constant attempts to tell everyone else what to do?

How am I being a hypocrite? If you will provide some credible examples, I will gladly swallow my words. Unfortunately I have learned that I cannot expect the same from you, FQ. Maybe if you learn some humility and stop automatically insulting everyone who disagrees with you, regardless of any valid points they make, people will not be so adamantly opposed to you.

I don’t care if you or the other brainless cyclistas here oppose me, JN. I know that I am with the large majority of Seattle voters who are going to shove your faces straight into the dirt on Nov. 8th by trouncing Proposition 1. And yes, I’ll be back to mercilessly taunt you. Count on it!

FrequentPoster continues to post this canned response because he has no counter-point. He knows that he is a “troll”, and attempts to besmirch his accusers by using foul language and insults, showing that he is immature and crass as well.

They already have 20 mph signs all over the side streets here. And on most of those streets, it’s pretty hard to even reach 20, let alone exceed it. This proposal is redundant at best, and of course it ignores established practice requiring engineering studies to change speed limits.

No evidence of my hypocrisy, FrequentPoster? You can still present evidence of it if you want. Otherwise the responsible thing to do would be to admit you were wrong. 

You’re right, your precious Mayor McDope cannot win. In the real world, as opposed to online, you have to look long and hard in this city before you find a Seattle voter not affiliated with the city government who supports the idiot. He is less popular here than Obama is among the cattlemen of Eastern Oregon. The best thing McDope could do is clean out his desk, slink out of the side door, and never come back.

Downtown? Business? Dirty words here. Don’t you know that we eat karma and fart smugness?

Better watch out. Pretty soon he’ll haul out the all-purpose troll accusation …

I’m not affiliated with city government and I quite like him (although I’m not thrilled with his handling of Westlake and a few other issues).

No, I’m just hoping you take the hint and drive without putting people at risk. So much for subtlety.

No, I’m just hoping you take the hint and drive without putting people at risk. So much for subtlety.

How many people ride Bicycles year round? How many people drive cars? Why are we contemplating making everyone suffer by voluntarily screwing the majority for the lowest common denominator? Spend the money on creatign trails. Why make biclye haters if we dont have to?  

Mr. Miller, Can you provide a statement in full support of road diets?  Cause you won’t.  

What part of “in the real world, as opposed to online,” don’t you understand?

Yeah, gentle liberal cyclistas are so subtle. Forgot about that.

Start here: http://publicola.com/2010/07/09/sdot-proposes-maple-leaf-bike-lanes-parking-removal/

Note that your MO is to pretend you like something, but to make every argument against it.  ”I am not against X, but I think it is a stupid idea.”"The poicy of the City is not only to accomodate bikes, but reduce parking and driver convenience. Starting with Nickels and now exponentially pushed by McGinn, the policy amounts to the idea that if we make it miserable for people to own cars they’ll take transit. While I don’t disagree with a bike lane through Maple Leaf, and see merit in the Roosevelt solution as a straight shot, all this “road diet” stuff misses the point. Seattleites would adopt transit if it were convenient. More bus service, more frequently, with more hours is the answer.And to the people who say they just get stuck in traffic, so does at-grade light rail and streetcars — to a greater degree, in fact, because it is impossible for them to detour when something goes wrong.Better bus service with dedicated bus lanes on backbone routes is the cheaper, better alternative. The McGinn crew spends so much time thinking they need to “teach” Seattleites to be environmentally sound they completely miss the fact Seattleites were there ahead of them.”

I’m a regular bicyclist, and I care about all three. You, on the other hand, don’t give a shit about reasonable opinions (let alone arguments) based on facts instead of generalizations, name calling, and other fallacies. Forget about civility (look it up). I don’t know what motivates your hateful ranting, but it doesn’t have much to do with improving the quality of life in our community.

Clearly more than you.

See ya on Nov. 8th, when the large majority of Seattle voters tell you exactly what we think of you and your cyclista dreams.

Always good to see someone from Mayor McDope‘s office here.

You’re among friends, so tell us, what genius decided that your boss would give that magazine an interview, anyway? And how do you account for his popularity in Seattle, one of the most liberal cities in the country, being lower than Barack Obama’s among cattlemen in Eastern Oregon ranch country? And when Prop. 1 loses by two-thirds of the vote, is he going to refuse to fix any potholes because the voters are “stupid trolls,” or will he finally eat some crow and tell everyone what a childish fool he’s been?

Plenty of people ride bicycles year round. The reason there aren’t more is because there is already a severe lack of safe infrastructure, and when you add rain, cold and reduced visibility, most people who would consider using a bicycle feel that it isn’t worth it. Northern European countries have very high bicycle usage percentages and they are much colder and have more severe weather than we do here, but they have safe, effective bicycle infrastructure. And to get back on point, this proposed legislation makes the streets safer for everyone, including pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorists.

We’ll talk again in three weeks!

Since it’s clear that you prefer Western Europe, why don’t you move there?

Ok, 15 mph all roads, all the time. That’s my final offer.

why should the majority of drivers be made to drive slower for minority bike nazis? If people hated you before they hate you bicyclists even more now. You are hurting your cause by pissing everyone off. Go ahead, push your biking agenda. It will get overturned because the people will hate it, then see if the taxpayers ever pass anything again benefiting you guys. 

Since it’s clear you don’t like people, why don’t you move to Mars?

My life and that of most people does not revolve around one ballot measure or election. I’m working for a better community on an ongoing basis. Granted, my definition of “better community” is mine, not yours, but it would be nice to know what you advocate for besides eating slabs of dead cows and running over bicyclists who have the audacity to be on the same road as cars.

Is that you FP? What’s with all the hatred (you used the word three times)?

Answer: Because it’s good for the quality of life in our neighborhoods. Pedestrians, people crossing the street in front of their house to get into their cars, even. Maybe you want a little car that takes you from your front door to the regular sized car at the curb for driving to work?

Have you ever had some twit go by so fast you were afraid they were going to take off your car door? (I have.) I.e., making neighborhoods more people friendly is not a “biking agenda;” it’s a human agenda.

Enforcement is the problem. Cops barely enforce existing traffic laws on main arterials. Where do you get the idea that they’re going to find the resources to camp in your neighborhood and make sure drivers don’t go over 15?

You may not realize this, but we don’t live in the Matrix. McGinn supporters online, they come from the real world.

Make ya a deal: First you move Amsterdam. Then I will move to Mars. Promise.

Don’t know who runs the I.T. side of the Publicola site, but they have my permission to prove that anotherneighbohoodactivist has lied again. All they need to do is post in this thread that my I.P. address is different from “Hapygoluky.”

activist, I can only wish that, someday, I get the chance to “door” you as you zip past my parked car.

“Gee, officer, I never saw the guy. Dang!”

No deal. I’m American, not Dutch. You are clearly Martian.

I had to go back and see what you meant when you refereed to me as”FP”. I am assuming that you mean “Frequent Poster”. And no, I don’t really hate anyone, but I do have a strong loathing feeling for people that try to tell everyone how to live their life’s. I am guessing that you were given the job as a hall monitor in school, and you’ve managed to graduate to road patrol, so congratulations on that! No,I don’t have a small car, I have a MDX but I think you’ve just inspired me to trade it in for a big diesel truck so I can blow exhaust fumes on bikers when I pass them stoping on my accelerator. I do agree that it is a bad idea to speed through neighborhoods but be honest thats not what this bill is about is it? On a more serious note, I think that if this bill passes and drivers are made to share the roads with bikes on our already overcrowded streets that we should also pass something making bikers share the burden of paying for the roads too. Maybe they should get speeding tickets for exceeding speed limits and breaking traffic laws. And maybe they should be made to license their bikes. Heck why not even make they pay for parking too? You bikers take up entire lanes of traffic for bike only lanes in WASHINGTON FREAKING STATE WHERE IT RAINS CONSTANTLY. How much use are you really going to get out of a bike lane when there is crappy weather most of the year? What a huge waste of resources!SOOOO many people are pissed off about this!  The more people that find out, the more people that are going to be pissed off! You best believe this is going to back fire hugely on your little biking community and mayor McSchwinn the huge “Dope”. Your a freaking dope too. I hope my generation wises up and stops listening to dirty ex-hippies lecture us. Go hug a tree and leave the rest of us alone to try to earn a living to bail out your sorry ass out from the huge mountain of debt that your generation created for all of my generation. How dare you lecture us about everything!

Not only are you unremittingly angry, but you’re increasingly humorless as well. How are you going to know it’s me you’re “dooring,” or is your hatred of bikers so vast that you’ll just start doing it regardless. This is not your first violence threatening post. The one thing you’ve succeeded at as an occasionally amusing trollista is drag me into dialogue with you, but I’m done with you.

p.s. As for IPs, the next few times a biker is doored in Seattle, you’ll be the first suspect. Not only are you violent and humorless, but you’re stupid as well.

I don’t know what generation you are talking about, but Generation Y as well as my own generation does not consider cars to be essential. And paying for insurance, gas, expensive repairs and other expenditures is not what my generation considers a good use of resources.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/09/generation-y-buying-fewer-cars-driving-less.html

oooh, pushed a little button, did I? Of course you’re not FP, but you sure have all his points covered: Lots of anger, not much humor, statements of doing violence, idiotic facts (far less than half the days a year have rain). And so on. I’m sorry you feel so aggrieved. We need dialogue, not diatribes.

Poor, poor baby!

Oh, blow it out your smug, self-righteous fashionista ass. Maybe you’ve fooled yourself into thinking that you’re high, mighty, civic minded, and everything else’s that’s good, but your kind is three weeks away from getting a nasty ol’ spankin’ from this city’s voters, most of whom are fed up with your transparent, self-important horseshit. What are you going to do then? Call the whole city a bunch of trolls, you pathetic, whining, laughable dweeb?

JN, come on, just admit it: You can’t afford a car on a barista’s wages. Or was that a bellhop?

When I was growing up, we were taught that bullies like you are actually cowards and we should stand up to them.

Let’s start by removing your frontal lobe.

The problem with cowards is that they are extremely dangerous with guns, cars, etc. Trolls and bullies have much in common. Banishment has its uses.

One of these days, I suppose I’ll find one. Maybe pinned under my pickup truck.

Let’s have a chat after Nov. 8th, when I and my fellow “bullies” stomp all over your precious Proposition 1. And who knows, maybe we’ll even pass I-1125. Now that would be fun!

I’m glad to see that you’re preparing for the ass-kicking you’re about to take at the polls. Who knows, maybe we’ll even manage to pass I-1125 too. Now wouldn’t that be a kick!

Yeah, but Martians vote. You’ll see.

He has one?

Nope, too busy investing my money in my 401k and in other investments. You know, planning for the future, not having to resort to getting a loan for anything. Being financially solvent, basically.

Here is FrequentPoster’s strategy for making an “argument”: insult, curse words, sarcasm, maybe sprinkle a few “-istas” in there. No facts, rational statements, or attempts to present his position in anything approaching an intelligent manner.

Whereas people like Kemper Freeman and Tim Eyman are perfectly innocent people who have the best interest in mind and only associate with good consorts.

“Better bus service with dedicated bus lanes on backbone routes is the cheaper, better alternative.”

And this is a statement against road diets, how?

Note that **your** MO is to assume I’m against something simply because you and your friends don’t like me. So you make these blanket statements like “Miller is against density” or “Miller is against road diets” or “Miller hates transit.” It’s all in your imagination and largely stems from your inability to understand governance requires knowing issues are rarely black and white. I learned the hard way that’s YOUR problem, not mine.

Feel free to continue to make assumptions about me based upon “someone told me a friend told him his second cousin heard Miller opposes ‘X’.” It actually works out better for me because when I go to meet people and have a meaningful conversation with them, they see I don’t actually have horns and a tail. They understand and see the same nuances they do and, frankly, it ends up being you they start to have doubts about.

Jn by your logic there is no “safe enough”. How about a speed limit of 1 mph? Is that good enough? Your trying to use the idea of  child safety to get your bicycle first rule applied to all. It wont work. You might try and tell everyone its for the enviroment. Green seems to be the key word thats creats the most useless legislation these days. And of course, you want everyone else to pay for it. Lets keep the bicycle rules to where we spend 50 percent of our time. On the sidewalks. Leave the rest of the voters out of the bicycle hater party. 

I didn’t say anything about “bicycle first”. If anything, I am for “bicycle equal”, i.e. designing appropriate roads and facilities with bicycles equal to cars, pedestrians and transit. I pay property tax, sales tax, everything that pays for roads, yet as a cyclist I have next to nothing to show for it. My money pays for highways, freeways, bridges, and tunnels that I am completely barred from using, yet certain people would have the voting public believe that the “cycling lobby” is all-powerful and controls every single road-planning decision made in this city. My commute takes me on roads where the bicycle facilities are some paint and some ridiculous bicycle painted onto the roadway. This is not safe and will not encourage enough people to use a bicycle for commuting, running errands, or anything else. 
And there WOULD be more people using a bicycle for these things if the infrastructure was there. Examples exist all over the world, and Seattle is not some special case where bicycles would never work. And btw, our topography also limits car usage. Just watch the viaduct when it shuts down. I’ll be riding past all of the people in their cars and my commute time won’t be a minute slower.

Way, way, way, way WAY too frequent.

If anything, I am for “bicycle equal”

That’s complete horseshit.

JN despises cars and drivers. He wants bicycles to come before anything else. Oh, and unlike motor vehicles, he and his fellow 20-somethings who live on the margins refuse to have themselves or their bicycles licensed. They are prototypical freeriders, wanting adults to indulge them and pay their bills.

JN and the rest of the cyclistas need to grow up if they wish to be respected.

Says the boor who’s only manner of speaking is insults and curse words. No facts, no reasoning whatsoever.