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Licata v. Fox on $60 Car Tabs

In a weird twist of fate, the city council’s leftiest member, Nick Licata, was pitted against Seattle Displacement Coalition founder John Fox and Maple Leaf neighborhood activist David Miller at a meeting of the Metropolitan Democratic Club on the second floor of the downtown 600 Stewart building this afternoon. The issue: A proposal on the November ballot that would increase car-tab fees in the city by $60 to pay for street maintenance, transit improvements, and bike and pedestrian projects.

Licata (who left in the company of Viet Shelton, a staffer at Transportation Choices Coalition who used to work for former mayor Greg Nickels) is for the fee; Fox and Miller—traditional Licata allies—are against it. Historically, Licata has been one of the biggest opponents of Vulcan’s development and transportation plans in South Lake Union—voting against upzoning their properties from 65 feet to 85, opposed buying property back from Vulcan that the city had previously sold to the company, was the lone vote against giving Vulcan a tax break for moderate-income housing, and opposed former mayor Greg Nickels’ proposed fix for the Mercer Mess in the neighborhood, among many other anti-Vulcan votes.

Licata, historically the council’s loudest opponent of fixed-rail transit, called electric trolley buses (which aren’t streetcars, but are on fixed routes) “probably one of the best investments you can make” in transit and noting that the fee only pays for planning to build two specific extensions of the streetcar—from South Lake Union to First Hill and from the Capitol Hill light rail station to north Capitol Hill. And he responded, preemptively, to the criticism that the flat car-tab fee is regressive (as Fox noted shortly, “a guy who drives a Lexus plays about the same amount as a family that buys a 30 or 40 year-old Chevrolet”), acknowledging, “it’s a bad tax, but I don’t think anything better is going to come along. Gas tax would be better, but we can’t use that.” The state constitution requires gas taxes to pay for state highways.

“If you believe that transit should improve in Seattle, I think it’s something you should support,” said Licata—who, perhaps significantly, started taking the bus to work every day a few years ago. “If you think that [transit] is bad and we should do something else, then you should oppose it.”

Fox shot back: “The problem with buses is the need for more buses, more service hours, and more routes. There is not one dime for more buses” in the proposal. (Fact check: King County funds bus service; the city can only pay for road improvements that speed up bus performance.) Fox also criticized the plan for focusing on streetcar and bike improvements over bridges and road maintenance (“I call it the slush fund for [Vulcan founder] Paul Allen’s streetcar,” he said), and suggested that impact fees for developers would be a better way to pay for transportation improvements.

Miller, who ran for city council in 2009 (Mike O’Brien won that seat), piled on the anti-bike bandwagon, saying that he personally thought “kids walking in the middle of the street in North and South Seattle” because there are no sidewalks is “more important than bike parking,” a comment that elicited an “amen” or two from the crowd of about 30 MDC members. In reality, all bike improvements, taken together, would make up less than 7 percent of the proposed car-tab package.

On the way out, I congratulated Licata on being in the pocket of Vulcan, as Fox alleged. “I wish!” he said, before striding south toward city hall.


  • http://www.facebook.com/alexjon Alex-jon Earl

    The solution offered by Fox and Miller would still have those kids walking in the street and would ensure that their future bus riding experience would be slower than today. But hey, they’ll save you 16 cents a day! And isn’t that more important than those two hypothetical kids?

    I like Licata’s approach.

  • Billy

    Why is David Miller fighting against doubling the amount of money our city spends on sidewalks every year?  

  • guest

    By electric trolleys, Licata means the electric trolley buses, not streetcars on rails. 

  • http://www.charlesredell.com/ Charles

    I am so sick of this trope that somehow choosing to ride a bike on city streets means that I deserve less in the way of infrastructure. Besides the rash of deaths we’ve seen recently around here (some might call them killings or at least manslaughter) making clear the fact that something has to be done to improve safety for citizens who don’t or can’t drive for any particular trip, it’s just patently untrue that I don’t pay my fair share for roads.

    I know Publicola has written to debunk the lies that gas taxes pay for roads and that licensing bike riders or bikes would solve all our problems, but maybe it’s time for a refresher?

  • Guest

    Correct. A small chunk of the $60 VLF money is slated for extending the the ETB network. Trolleys are zero emissions, trolleybus wire is $3 million/mile vs >$20 mil for streetcars, and the operations costs are only a little higher than buses.

  • Tyler

    Is John Fox the world’s angriest man?  

  • Tyler

    Is John Fox the world’s angriest man?  

  • Anonymous

    I wish they would run a streetcar up Jackson to 23rd.

  • Grover

    Streetcars cost over $50 million per mile.  And the operating costs of streetcars are far higher than for buses.

    Buses do everything that streetcars can do for a fraction of the cost.  Streetcars are nothing but a stupid waste of money.

  • guest

    Lower operating costs, but higher up-front capital costs

  • guest

    Lower operating costs, but higher up-front capital costs

  • FrequentPoster

    some might call them killings or at least manslaughter

    And others might call them the predictable results of cyclista recklessness and inattention.

  • FrequentPoster

    Maybe because a) it’s a tiny percentage of the total take, and b) we already approved a referendum to fund that.

  • http://www.charlesredell.com/ Charles
  • Grover

    Wrong.  Much higher operating costs for streetcars than for buses.

    http://www.soundtransit.org/Documents/pdf/about/financial/2011/Adopted2011Budget.pdf

    Sound Transit 2011 Budget, page 37, Operating Cost per Revenue Vehicle Hour:

    Tacoma Streetcar 2011 adopted budget:  $423.80/hour
    ST Express Bus 2011 adopted budget:  $136.14/hour

    I think you will find that Metro buses cost around $136 per hour to operate, also.  That is about 1/3 the operating cost of the Tacoma streetcar.

  • Grover

    If you care about your life, don’t ride a bicycle on streets with motor vehicles.  That is just stupidly dangerous.

  • Anonymous

    By the way, what is cyclista, an insect sex organ?

  • Bill B in the Central District

    i wish they would run a streetcar up Jackson to MLK.

  • Bill B in the Central District

    i wish they would run a streetcar up Jackson to MLK.

  • Grover

    What for?

  • shane phillips

    I’m incredibly liberal, and while I’m with Licata on this one, I feel like he’s been wrong on a lot of important issues lately. He’s not the worst or anything, but I really don’t like the guy much.

  • colored lines on maps.

    if you take a bus, it’s not as urban hip cool as a streetcar; a streetcar let’s you pretend you’re part of this grand tribal moment, perhaps you’re at heart an Amsterdammer, you know where they have looooong street cars webbing over all cities from amsterdam to the hague even for 50 miles linked to raeal trains and soft intercity rubber tired trains and multiple layers of trains and everything denser anyway as part of a huge rail system.  but since we don’t have that system, if you get a streetcar for your neighborhood, paid for by all of us who don’t get one, then you cna feel like you’re part of a tribe of protransit folks.

    even though a bus gets you where you’re going just as fast. 

    SOLUTION: get bus.  paint the word streetcar on it!  paint colored lines on a map too showing the “street car routes” where we have put streetcars that as as fast (that is slow) as a bus.  Then put the map on your website and it makes you feel like you have a subway system!

  • pointless meandering

    yeah, and another thing I don’t like is fritata. or baseball. there’s stuff about it I like ,but lately, not so much. 

  • David Miller

    Because it does not double the amount of sidewalks built every year.

  • David Miller

    Fact Check: Seattle already buys “extra” bus hours from King County. See the BTG budget. This measure does not add any funding for bus hours, adds no new bus routes, and will “speed up” 0.89 routes per year of the roughly 155 Metro routes that serve Seattle.

    Calling it a “transit” measure is misleading.

  • David Miller

    We need to funds transportation. We need rebalance and rework like happened in 2007 and bring a better measure back like in 2008.

    On the roughly 146 routes serving Seattle, the future bus riding experience won’t change because of this.

    Our campaign has never complained about the cost. We’ve complained about this proposal. And if you think only “a couple” of kids are walking to school in the middle of the street because we don’t have sidewalks in north and south Seattle, you’re just not paying attention.

  • Munchkin

    Fact check: $100 million to make transit faster and more reliable. Take it or leave it! I’m voting YES on Prop 1 so I can count on my bus being on time and get me downtown faster. That’s the kind of city I want to live in.

  • guest

    Fact Check:  Spending Seattle tax dollars on bus hours is a waste of money without the matching dollars provided by Metro as with Transit Now and BTG.  As long as the bus service continues to be provided by Metro sales tax dollars, it makes a lot more sense for Seattle to invest its transit dollars in permanent infrastructure that improves speed on key bus corridors.  And by “key,” I mean the ones that carry 85% of the passenger trips.  These issues were discussed ad nauseam in the CTAC meetings.

  • guest

    Fact Check:  Spending Seattle tax dollars on bus hours is a waste of money without the matching dollars provided by Metro as with Transit Now and BTG.  As long as the bus service continues to be provided by Metro sales tax dollars, it makes a lot more sense for Seattle to invest its transit dollars in permanent infrastructure that improves speed on key bus corridors.  And by “key,” I mean the ones that carry 85% of the passenger trips.  These issues were discussed ad nauseam in the CTAC meetings.

  • RossB

    What is the number when you adjust for capacity? A streetcar can carry a lot more people. That doesn’t mean that streetcars will come out ahead, but they will be closer.

  • Eddiew

    ECB: the 18th amendment limits the gas tax revenue to highway purposes, but not just state highways; it can be spent on local roads
    Licata spoke to the cost-effectiveness of electrict trolley buses, not streetcars.  Licata was also one of two NO votes on the half-baked Vulcan-Nickels-Drago SLU streetcar.
    Giffy and Bill: there was a South Jackson Street streetcar to Mt Baker via 31st Avenue South; it was dismantled in 1940.  The arterial has frequent electric service on routes 7, 14, and 36.
    Miller: Seattle has too many bus routes and not enough service frequency; under BTG, Metro provided 2/3 of the cost of the new hours; that was a good deal.  It will take $1 billion to add sidewalks to the arterials that lack them; that is beyond the capacity of the TBD VLF.  There should be another measure.  Let’s get started with this one.

  • Eddiew

    ECB: the 18th amendment limits the gas tax revenue to highway purposes, but not just state highways; it can be spent on local roads
    Licata spoke to the cost-effectiveness of electrict trolley buses, not streetcars.  Licata was also one of two NO votes on the half-baked Vulcan-Nickels-Drago SLU streetcar.
    Giffy and Bill: there was a South Jackson Street streetcar to Mt Baker via 31st Avenue South; it was dismantled in 1940.  The arterial has frequent electric service on routes 7, 14, and 36.
    Miller: Seattle has too many bus routes and not enough service frequency; under BTG, Metro provided 2/3 of the cost of the new hours; that was a good deal.  It will take $1 billion to add sidewalks to the arterials that lack them; that is beyond the capacity of the TBD VLF.  There should be another measure.  Let’s get started with this one.

  • FrequentPoster

    Too main rail fetishists out there.