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PubliCola was off and running. In June 2009, PubliCola hired another award-winning journalist, super-sourced Seattle city hall reporter Erica C. Barnett.

People were afraid that blogging would change journalism. Instead, we believe journalism can change blogging. Twenty-first century journalism may look and feel different, and yes Erica isn't afraid to get cranky, but we're committed to making sure online news still delivers independent, reliable, even-keeled coverage. And most of all, we're committed to making sure the coverage sparks honest civic debate.

Bringing you cola for the people, PubliCola is named after Publius Valerius PubliCola, the alias for the authors of the Federalist Papers—the original bloggers.

The first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol and Seattle city hall, PubliCola has been called a “must-read” by the Seattle Post Intelligencer and a hot “New Media Mover and Shaker” by Seattle Magazine—which also cited our own Erica C. Barnett as the city's No. 1 news nerd.

Constantine: Seattle Tunnel Opponents Want to Force People to “Abandon Their Cars”

King County Executive Dow Constantine continued to play the role of leading tunnel proponent (or leading Mayor Mike McGinn opponent) that he formally took on when he headed up a press conference denouncing McGinn’s obstruction and challenging the mayor to defend the surface transit option last month

In an otherwise sprawling speech about transportation and the economy to the Bellevue Downtown Association this morning, Constantine accused “a small faction” in Seattle—obvious code for Mayor Mike McGinn and his fellow proponents of the surface/transit/I-5 alternative for replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct—of “believ[ing] that the key to the future lies in forcing traffic gridlock so that people abandon their cars.”

Constantine predicted gridlock—”transportation gridlock, political gridlock, economic gridlock”—will be the inevitable result if the state doesn’t build a deep-bore tunnel freeway on the waterfront.

“I know that traffic congestion—even intentionally-created traffic congestion—has dreadful and unintended impacts to our economy, our quality of life—and our environment,” Constantine said. “I don’t want a 6-lane, slow-motion, surface highway along Seattle’s waterfront. And we all know that freight doesn’t take the bus.”

“If we don’t build the deep-bore tunnel in Seattle, there will be consequences,” Constantine continued. “We will get regional gridlock. Our billion dollars in state highway money will go to another county, one less urban than ours, to facilitate sprawl and move jobs elsewhere. Our cities, our economy, our quality of life, our people lose.

Constantine also argued that opposition to light rail in Bellevue could have a similar effect—that opposition to rail in Bellevue “threatens to create unnecessary delays in voter-approved and voter-funded services” to the Eastside. “If we don’t build light rail on the Eastside, we not only break our pledge to voters, but we fail future generations,” Constantine said.

Read Constantine’s whole speech here.


  • Anonymous

    Erica, I notice that you and all us regular commenters are now part of the Pete Holmes/Protect Seattle Now/WSDOT lawsuit! I looked up online the the pleadings filed by Manca yesterday, and he attached a printout of your interview with Pete Holmes, along with all our comments.

    Gawrsh, we’re part of history now, such as it is!

  • Anonymous

    Erica, I notice that you and all us regular commenters are now part of the Pete Holmes/Protect Seattle Now/WSDOT lawsuit! I looked up online the the pleadings filed by Manca yesterday, and he attached a printout of your interview with Pete Holmes, along with all our comments.

    Gawrsh, we’re part of history now, such as it is!

  • Anonymous

    “And we all know that freight doesn’t take the bus.” Very true.

    Note also how he is both pro-tunnel and pro-light rail. These two are not mutually exclusive no matter what some McGinn supporters might have you believe.

  • archie

    I usually respect and agree with Constantine, but how can he say this with a straight face when the tunnel with tolls will also dump cars on the surface causing “gridlock”? The argument for Surface/Transit/I-5 is not to induce gridlock but to turn to cheaper, longer term (dare I say sustainable?) solutions for our transportation system.

  • pro-people

    Gridlock! Earthquake! Danger! Gridlock!

  • Elaina

    Looks like the sanctimonious little whore took an unflattering out take from his campaign kick off video from his run against Slusan Hutchison. Real classy. What’s next, the little zombie spinning eyes the stranger put on the 8 INSANE council members? For awhile there it looked like pubicola was adopting a more even tone in their tunnel reporting, but apparently we’re back in junior high journalism class again.

  • Cary

    This smells both desperate and dishonest. What is he thinking?
    All the options can provide for local/ regional mobility, moving +/- 1% of trips.
    Both the tunnel option and I5/S/T have the same 4 lane urban street on the waterfront with roughly the same number of trips.
    Both the tunnel option and I5/S/T work the same way for freight. The Port’s east/west container traffic is unaffected; local freight accessing downtown and industrial neighborhoods will use the waterfront street and Elliott/ Western connections primarily, and regional freight goes to I5. (I5/S/T makes room for freight, but the tunnel does not.)
    The bored tunnel, if tolled, fares worse on local access to downtown, on congestion to unimproved downtown streets, on bus access to downtown, and it creates mayhem at the Pioneer Square mega-interchange where the streets are simply too few and too narrow handle the 50,000 – 75,000 cars concentrated there each day.
    The Nelson Nygaard report of last week was the first and only in-depth piece of due diligence on the proposed tunnel from the perspective of Seattle’s local concerns and interests. And guess what: it flunks on every measure.

    Yes, the politicians are probably embarrassed they backed a loser. But making shit up, saying its too late to turn back, is kind of the opposite of leadership.

  • Ignoring the Other Issues

    What, nothing about his discussion of funding for arts and culture? Nothing about the way he handled detractors of light rail? Oh – I’m sorry, I forgot that you are not reporting on other issues from local folks these days.

    Also, using that photo is juvenile and disrespectful – a still from a campaign video to somehow prove your point? Not that you are going to care about this comment as you sit in smug satisfaction at your gotcha “journalism.”

  • Monster

    I didn’t vote for Dow the first time but I will next time

  • http://thesunbreak.com Michael van Baker

    Dow is going to have to go to a LOT more concerts at Neumos to make up for that one.

  • Anonymous

    Damn, keep a lid on it, whoever you are.

  • Elaina

    Because the spillover from the tunnel is mainly outside of rush-hour–the tolling study showed people will cough up the $4 during rush hour. Surface/tran forces cars onto the grid rush hour or not. And in any case this is not so much an actual problem as it is a convenient talking point against the tunnel–There is a very simple fix for this and that is to toll 99 a bit further back so that you pay the toll whether you divert to surface streets or take the tunnel. This would also enable a reduction of the toll rates to the point where it wouldn’t be worth people’s time to avoid it anyway.

  • Anonymous

    Since you brought up the NelsonNygaard report that came out last week, do you have any insight into why neither Slog nor Publicola has spent any time reporting on all the interesting findings and suggestions it makes? While I don’t find it as compelling as you do, the lack of coverage on it kind of mystifies me. Any hints as to why?

  • What’s wrong with Dow?

    Seriously, has he gone insane?

  • What’s wrong with Dow?

    Seriously, has he gone insane?

  • What’s wrong with Dow?

    Seriously, has he gone insane?

  • sarah

    That’s a silly move. Filing an affidavit to get a different judge could take more time, i.e. past the deadline to get on the August ballot.

  • fount

    it’s a picture of the man speaking. That’s what Dow looks like.

    Let me know exactly how Erica is a “sanctimonious little whore” for a picture of the man speaking.

  • Nothing’s wrong with Dow

    He’s highly intelligent, articulate, and would beat your pants in a debate, sunny-boy.

  • Nothing’s wrong with Dow

    He’s highly intelligent, articulate, and would beat your pants in a debate, sunny-boy.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr Baker

    There isn’t any Transit for the Surface option, zero.

    The thing about analysis is that when you apply different criteria to two subjects in the same report it really isn’t very useful.

    All options require transit involving the same folks that damn near choked on a $20 car tab tax for two yours.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr Baker

    There isn’t any Transit for the Surface option, zero.

    The thing about analysis is that when you apply different criteria to two subjects in the same report it really isn’t very useful.

    All options require transit involving the same folks that damn near choked on a $20 car tab tax for two yours.

  • David Sucher

    It’s tragic that Dow has drunk the Koolhaas-aid with the Tunnel _opponents_ who also refuse to consider the Repair/Rebuild-in-place option.

    Yes, ironically, Dow and McGinn have lined up together to back the two options — Tunnel and Surface/Transit — which are impractical.

  • That’s too bad.

    This is an unfortunate political play on Dow’s part. He may very well prefer the tunnel on its merits (though I doubt it), but to mischaracterize the I5/Surface/Transit supporters as trying to force people to abandon their cars gets us into Glenn Beck territory regarding truth.

  • ratcityreprobate

    This speech is what our $60 grand for Christian Sinderman is getting us, it was probably written by Waggener-Edstrom and polished up by Sinderman.

  • Grover

    A 6-lane viaduct is the only option that works as a transportation project. The tunnel and surface/transit will both make traffic within downtown Seattle much worse than it is now.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    Grist.org has a great series on the Bicycle Economy.

    The Seattle DBT comes under fire here in this article about tearing down urban freeways (it defines the Tunnel as an “unnecessary” urban freeway):

    President Eisenhower, the father of the U.S. interstate system, agreed. He reportedly only discovered that freeways were being built in cities, rather than between them, in 1959. He wanted them to be eliminated, but the march of progress had already left him behind.

    He was right: We don't need freeways in cities. And we can't afford them.

    Not every city has gotten that message. Right now in Seattle, the earthquake-damaged Alaskan Way Viaduct seems destined to be replaced by a costly freeway tunnel along the city's waterfront -- despite the wishes of voters.

    In San Diego County, the $2.6 billion proposed for spending on bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure over the next 40 years has attracted more scrutiny than the $82 billion slated for roads in the same plan, including at least one highly contested freeway expansion project.

    In Portland, planning is underway for a new, widened freeway bridge that will bring more congestion into the center of the city. The ultimate cost of that project is estimated to be between $4 and $10 billion.

    http://www.grist.org/biking/2011-03-14-tearing-down-urban-freeways-to-make-room-for-a-new-bicycle-econ

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    The comments about downtown Seattle by politicians such as Constantine make me think they rarely, if ever, go there.

    I recently worked there for a year and a half. By 10 am the major avenues were mostly empty, even by the largest skyscrapers that are sold as “prime real estate” (even though there have been a number of daylight stabbings and drug dealings there recently).

    Seattle could accommodate much more car traffic through its current surface streets because even at rush hour the traffic moves more smoothly than say, Central Avenue in downtown Kent at 4pm!

    Constantine is just a hapless puppet whose every utterance is made for him…in Olympia.

    Next time, elect a Republican who speaks for himself and the people.

  • My vote still only counts once

    This makes no sense what so ever. Without cars how else are you going to fund transit with MVET and road improvements for transit with gas tax ? Seriously, think about SDOT’s budget if say 50% of the households in Seattle decided to live car free. Now expand that to King, Pierce and Snohomish counties. What do you think happens to any planned expansion of light rail ? Transit and cars have a symbiotic relationship – one cannot survive without the other.

  • Dorothy

    Count me in the camp that approves of Dow’s leadership on this and on several other issues. I heard from someone who attended the luncheon – a lefty Seattle someone – how Dow gave a great speech and took on several issues in his Q&A – this was not the only topic.

    Dow knows what he is talking about on the tunnel – he is been involved in all stages of this issue for at least 10 years. Yes – it would be nice to hear someone discuss the other parts of the recent report – and it would nice to have someone explain where the money for transit is coming from in the surface-transit option. The state money is prohibited from being used for transit. Looking at how hard it is to get funding to keep our current level of transit – I would love a factual explanation of where we will get money for new transit.

    And, I am in the category who thinks it was a cheap shot to use what seems to be a still shot from Dow’s campaign announcement off of You Tube. There are hundreds of photos of him out there looking normal – and I bet you could have even had someone take one at today’s event.

  • Anonymous

    you voted for Susan Hutchison? gee whiz, you must be a complete nut job.

  • Anonymous

    I think it’s quite a flattering picture of him. he looked better and healthier during the campaign than he does now. I’m always happy to point out Erica’s bias, but I don’t get this one.

  • Godwin

    “Both the tunnel option and I5/S/T work the same way for freight. The Port’s east/west container traffic is unaffected; local freight accessing downtown and industrial neighborhoods will use the waterfront street and Elliott/ Western connections primarily, and regional freight goes to I5. (I5/S/T makes room for freight, but the tunnel does not.)”

    Too bad virtually everyone involved in said industries disagrees with you. Wonder why that is?

  • Godwin

    Repair/Rebuild: ain’t gonna happen. Get over it.

  • Anonymous

    The Nielsen/Nygaard report also panned the bored tunnel side-affect of creating bottlenecks at its portals, particularly the north portal through the Mercer Mess and the Denny Way Dawg Run. This traffic mismanagement problem is predicted at all hours. Let’s pretend the bored tunnel has no flaws and that the alternate options are poo-poo caca. That way, our superiors will pat us on the back and say thank you, little person.

  • David Sucher

    Actually I think you are dead wrong, Godwin. So you get over it.

    Repair (Rebuild-in-place) is the only logical solution.

    Oh, if you were going to tell me that it can’t be done, maybe you can also tell me why the Spokane Street Viaduct couldn’t be Rebuilt-in-place.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll agree that politicians are susceptable to corruption. However, the Republican Party philosophy is corrupted to serve wealth and power over others. The rightwing has lost most of its defensible principles including their ability to speak the truth.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll agree that politicians are susceptable to corruption. However, the Republican Party philosophy is corrupted to serve wealth and power over others. The rightwing has lost most of its defensible principles including their ability to speak the truth.

  • Anonymous

    Strange how at least 5 people admit to liking this Elaina person’s bitchy post.

  • Anonymous

    Strange how at least 5 people admit to liking this Elaina person’s bitchy post.

  • Stinky

    Who in the Downtown Seattle business group slipped Dow a nice chunk of campaign change or a promise for one?

  • Anonymous

    Transit wasn’t included in Wsdot’s surface boulevard studies to produce the worst results EXACTLY as the bastards intended. Wsdot also factored in a dozen more stoplights than actually required to spoil surface boulevard study results. The love traffic jams and the death toll and the air pollution and the poisoned water and hanging out with good ol boy fellows drunk at the country club, rubbing their little balls.

  • Anonymous

    The 4-lane design (widened to 6-lane south of Marion or so) for Alaskan Way is bogus. The 6-lane Couplet even moreso. Wsdot has messed up this project so badly it’s a crime. Wsdot has knowingly committed fraud.
    Douglas MacDonald should go to prison for at least 5 years.

  • Anonymous

    The photo of Dow is just a photo. Get over it. If the highway club gets its way, this little game will be repeated as the traffic worsens and new money-hole projects are lined for the next theft of the public treasury.

    Transit is as much a fundamental mode of travel as walking. Transit users are first of all walkers. But when “Transportation” planning excludes mass transit, pedestrian and bicycling infrastructure, not only do these fundamental modes of travel suffer, driving too fails to function optimally. Just obey your masters and say what they tell you to say. Don’t think for yourself. Don’t question the rich and powerful who buy politicians of every stripe. Seattle is overrun with traffic. Why expect Wsdot & sdot to have learned from their mistakes? How can they not want to fix I-5? Why is Link LRT the ‘worst’ new light rail in the nation? Why is the Lake Union Streetcar likewise the worst new streetcar line? These clowns intentionally make Seattle’s traffic a nightmare.

  • Monster

    The difference between you and me is though I have watched what he did over the past two years or however long he has been in office, was impressed and am willing to vote for him if he wants to run again, In fact if he ran for higher office I would most likely support him. That is alot more then people like you who vote a straight democrat ticket with out even looking at the opposition.

    next time Obama invades a country or kowtows to a big corporation a faggot like you will be the first person to defend his shitty position.

  • sarah

    Are you going to pay for the repair/rebuild, David? Because the state won’t, which is why it won’t happen. It doesn’t matter what’s the “logical” solution.

  • Dorothy

    And this still does not answer my question of where we will find funding for transit on this project. For the record, I commute solely by transit and take transit many other place. I agree that is fundamental – however, there is no extra funding and the Rs in Congress are threatening FTA. And, transit, bikes, and pedestrians all are considered in regional transportation planning

    Um, why are you saying link Light Rail is the “worst in the nation”? Because you don’t like it? And, fixes to I-5 have been in transportation plans for several years.

  • Dorothy

    And this still does not answer my question of where we will find funding for transit on this project. For the record, I commute solely by transit and take transit many other place. I agree that is fundamental – however, there is no extra funding and the Rs in Congress are threatening FTA. And, transit, bikes, and pedestrians all are considered in regional transportation planning

    Um, why are you saying link Light Rail is the “worst in the nation”? Because you don’t like it? And, fixes to I-5 have been in transportation plans for several years.

  • David Sucher

    As a matter of fact Sarah, I was hoping to pay. Thanks for reminding me.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s go easy on the anti-gay slurs.

  • http://www.dougsvotersguide.com DOUG.

    A majority of Seattle residents do not support the tunnel. That’s more than a small faction.

  • Anonymous

    Why do you suppose traffic flows better through downtown than through Kent, even though downtown Seattle represents the largest concentration of jobs in the region? Could it be because of the mass transit options–buses, trains, street cars, ferries, trolleys?

  • Alpha

    “sanctimonious little whore”? You are such a clever wit. Between you and the gay slurs from Monster, it is really troll-a-palooza.

  • Anonymous

    If 50% of households relied mostly on transit, buses likely wouldn’t need operating subsidies.

  • archie

    Since SDOT’s budget comes almost entirely from property tax, SDOT would do just fine if less people drove. In fact, they could spend more of that property tax money on things that people start using instead: sidewalks, trails, bus lanes, etc. instead of their most expensive endeavor today: repairing and rebuilding roads.

  • Biliruben

    Man. Full court press on the tunnel. Attack. Attack.

    Attack some more.

    All the stops are being pulled. They even got Dow spewing the bull-danky.

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    Nor will freight take the tunnel, for the most part. With or without a tunnel, the new Alaskan Way will be the preferred truck route.

    But even with the tunnel, there will be tens of thousand of trips diverted onto surface streets. If buses are stuck in gridlock, then that really would be Carmageddon. But if buses are held harmless from SOV gridlock by redesigning 3rd Ave into a transit-only busway, and enough transit-only lanes are segregated on the other streets to keep bus and car traffic separate, then mobility can be preserved.

    Freight going into downtown would have to take the surface streets, but freight passing through would just take Alaskan Way, which is not seriously impacted by transit.

    Dow, at least I’ve offered a suggestion for how to get buses, cars, and freight through downtown smoothely. You have yet to proffer a plan.

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    Don’t be an alarmist. The Big One won’t hit until after 2016. But do be alarmed about 2017.

  • Wilbur

    I was under the impression that petty personal name calling wasn’t allowed here?

  • Wilbur

    I agree w/you & am a “faggot”…try to show some class, people. So much for civil society.

  • Wilbur

    Smug?

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    Keep it PG-rated, sirkulat. But you’re right that the surface option is a straw man created by the state.

    Instead of defending the pathetic surface option, we ought to be asking why the politicians aren’t open to the obvious idea of closing off 3rd Ave to general traffic, among other relatively cheap fixes that will protect downtown from complete gridlock, with or without the tunnel.

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    Could it be that the freight lobby wants to divert car traffic to the tunnel, so that they can have Alaskan Way for themselves? (not that cars will actually stay off of Alaskan, mind you)

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    What? An 8-lane option won’t work?

  • Wilbur

    That bridge between Portland & Vancouver WA will include light rail…one big reason for the expense.

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    I thought Christian was supposed to be convincing the public of the utility of efficiencies in government, rather than the advantages of the DBT. Nevertheless, if he is doing his job for the county and for the DBT campaign using the same sentences, then that is a pretty good example of an efficiency.

  • Wilbur

    A majority of Seattle residents always agree on what the don’t want. It’s coming up with a majority that supports a timely solution that gets problematic.

  • BlueCollarEnviro

    Certain fixes are more about political cost than financial cost. Restriping a lane to be for transit only is pretty cheap, except from the standpoint of the elected official running for re-election.

    Bike lanes significantly reduce repavement costs, but the bike haters keep trying to portray them as costing the taxpayers money.

  • Anonymous

    I get the feeling Josh and Erica don’t watch the threads any more. Some days they don’t even seem interested in what they’re posting about.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    So let’s see if I’ve got this straight, no one’s going to take the tunnel, but cars are going to backtrack from miles around to line up at the tunnel portals so they can take the tunnel.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    So let’s see if I’ve got this straight, no one’s going to take the tunnel, but cars are going to backtrack from miles around to line up at the tunnel portals so they can take the tunnel.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    I certainly wouldn’t condone the “little whore” part, but if there’s one thing that characterizes the surface crowd it’s their sanctimoniousness. Just compare the tone and zeal of the two camps. She’s so convinced that god is on her side that she trolls through several minutes of video to find a shot of Constantine looking like John Biala with his mouth open. She disagrees with him, so she’s trying to make him look crazy. She did the same thing with Pete Holmes the other day, to a lesser extent. If she wants to use those kind of tactics then she shouldn’t be too surprised if someone calls her a little whore, though sanctimonious little bitch might have been more apt. Or, wait, what was the C for again?

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Sanctimonious.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Mischaracterize? That’s their entire sanctimonious point.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Probably they realize it bends over backwards to try and support the position of the irritating one issue mayor who commissioned it. And the whole thing is predicated on tolling, which could easily be tweaked so there’s essentially no problem whatsoever, but they never mention that as an option–unless you count their crackpot idea of tolling every road in the entire city.

    So they spend hundreds of pages detailing all the consequences of the most idiotic way of tolling, without mentioning, oh, by the way, there’s a very easy fix for that which would eliminate all of these dire consequences.

    That must be why.

  • Charlie Mas

    People are attacking the tunnel because it is a profoundly bad idea.

    It is a bad idea because it will have no downtown on-ramps or off-ramps. That means that it only works as a bypass route. That puts it in direct competition with another bypass route about a mile away: I-5. When I-5 is free and the tunnel costs money, people will take I-5.

    Also, because it does not have any downtown on-ramps or off-ramps, the tunnel does not replace the viaduct for all of the folks who use it to get to or from downtown. It is an ineffective replacement. All of those cars are diverted to surface streets. So for all of the concern about choking the surface streets that tunnel fans show, they don’t show any concern for the impact the tunnel will have on surface street traffic.

    In the end, it is likely that very few people will use the tunnel, either because it doesn’t go where they want to go (downtown) or because it costs money when there is a readily available free alternative. Just who do the tunnel supporters think is going to drive through this thing?

  • http://twitter.com/michaelp_206 Michaelp

    By that logic, an even larger majority of Seattle residents do not support the S/T option.

  • Down

    So disappointing, Dow. I thought you knew better. (And, frankly, I think you do, but you’re playing the game now.)

  • fount

    Wow. So far on this thread, we’ve seen people called “whore,” “bitch,” and “faggot.”

    At least when Ivan calls people names, he calls them “shithead” or “pissant” — terms that aren’t loaded with homophobia or misogyny.

    On either side of the tunnel divide, we should welcome a debate. But do you really need to degrade people to do it? Use of data is usually so much more effective.

  • fount

    This is really the logic of most tunnel supporters, on display. She makes clear: it “doesn’t matter” whether anything is actually a good solution or not. The only criterion that matters is whether an idea has political support. If it does – run with it, no matter how flawed or expensive.

    I for one like to think a little more broadly. Most of the good ideas that have happened, in this city or beyond, had very little political support at one time. And most of the very bad ideas start with plenty of it.

  • “Highways end congestion!”

    1. “force out of cars” language shows he’s planning to run state wide asap. It’s a bit antienvironmental. Tunnel opponents do include some against all cars, but also include some who argue it’s just a bad investment even for car mobility. And this rhetoric does not address the cost benefit issue. To explain: SOME road projects are good, SOME are bad, some transit good, some bad, etc. etc. Dow is joining the car tribe not in a CBA type way but in a hot rheotorical way. disappointing I hope the Sierra club never backs him again.
    2. 38,000 car trips a day for billions is a BAD road project. A bypass highway is a bad project. A tolled road in this era of 25% underemployment and 25% of adults not even having cars is a very unjust idea. Social justice wise. A DBT that makes West seattle transit times LONGER than they are today is a bad, anti transit idea. Spending billions on a two mile stretch of road when the state is broke is a bad idea. Creating two HUGE portals in the middle of the supposedly walkable dense part of Seattle is an antiwalkable idea.
    Because we will have “gridlock” on downtown streets no matter what option we pursue.
    But if you want mainstream donor backing for higher office, it’s a very, very good idea. Will it be governor in 4 years? AG if Ferguson loses in 4 years? Or just positioning to be ready when…McDermott is out of office?

  • Monster

    Civil society is dead, liberals killed it.

  • Guest

    Dow’s a man after my own heart. Like him I support both the Link and the DBT.

  • Anonymous

    Strategically, it’s a smart move.

  • Anonymous

    On a side note. Gridlock is an irrational argument. It is based in the Freight concerns of losing profits by slowing delivery and burning fuel while not moving.

    Like most of us, sometimes you have to wait in line if you go to your favorite restaurant for lunch, sometimes the line is long.
    Even at the drive thru.

    Take your own lunch to work……or don’t……but there is no right here for anyone to expect immediacy in anything. That’s why “Gridlock” is actually irrelevant to the reality of this project.

  • Anonymous

    On another note…..”forcing people to abandon cars”…..he could have easily and acuratley said “creating alternatives”for the people and business’s that travel through our city.. after all incentive based maneuvers have been used since the first “tax break” was used to create incentive for change and growth. If it is more convenient and less expensive to use public transportation…..that would be a step forward into the future, a better future.

    This tact of “abandonment” is, well , sensational really. and is an argument for the past, and the continuation of past thinking that has gotten us where we are right now.

  • fount

    so Monster, that absolves you of any need to be decent?

    Also, what exactly do “faggots” have to do with this debate, and why did you bring them into it?

  • or Ozzie-ish

    yes but if you say forcing people out of cars, you firm up with the middle for whom being environmental means recycling, voting for small car tab fees for the busses then supporting BILLIONS for a megahighway.

    Our environmentalism in Seattle and area is pretty shallow, we’re basially an uptight suburban kind of place. Dow’s comments sound like that dad Red in the 70′s show — angry suburban dad of the 70s.

  • Anonymous

    @ Ozzie…..lol, next Dow will just start calling anti-tunnel folks “Dumbass”. Wanna see Red (Dow) flip? ask him what his overall transportation scheme is for seattle in the next 20 years is, and how he plans to calm traffic, limit emissions, implement alternative fuel incentives like hydrogen or electricity, and get Port freighting to realize that freighting is as much a problem as it is a solution.

    “Get in the Car Dumbass, were going to town, back talk me again and i’ll flip you like a grilled cheese sandwhich” lol

  • http://twitter.com/michaelp_206 Michaelp

    It is sad that someone who was, and will be, supported by so many good progressives and Democrats is now being thrown under the bus due to his disagreement over one issue.

    It is worse that, as fount pointed out, we have devolved our talking points on this into hate speech. It is as if we have all heard our own and each others’ arguments about the DBT so much that we have to insult one another, and in order to really make it come out through the din of this debate…well, it is a shame. I thought we were better than this.

    This is yet another reason I am sick of this debate, and look forward to the drills drilling. We can and should be discussing transit as a whole – what we want it to look like, how we get there, how we pay for it, and share ideas and criticisms. That’s the PubliCola comment threads I enjoy, and am really starting to miss.

  • Anonymous

    Take heart – I get the sense that those trying to throw him under the bus haven’t the strength and can’t find the bus.

  • Anonymous

    Take heart – I get the sense that those trying to throw him under the bus haven’t the strength and can’t find the bus.

  • Rob

    the repair and rebuild is not going to happen – because it will upset the land owners/developers. Why do you think they’re ramming the tunnel through?

  • Rob

    the repair and rebuild is not going to happen – because it will upset the land owners/developers. Why do you think they’re ramming the tunnel through?

  • Rob

    Thanks… Since an anonymous “left Seattle some” approves, I guess I need to reconsider my position on this.

  • Monster

    “Note also how he is both pro-tunnel and pro-light rail. These two are not mutually exclusive no matter what some McGinn supporters might have you believe.”

  • Anonymous

    The other new LRT lines have met or exceeded predictions, unlike Link; same with the Lake Union Streetcar. My standards for rail transit are higher than what most people set. Seattle transportation planning agencies are staffed with the incompetent and led by the corrupt. The money for transit projects comes when the public trusts its agencies. Seattlers have good reason to distrust Metro, Sound Transit, SDOT & especially Wsdot.
    The bored tunnel is a horrible mistake. Watch the SeattleChannel interview with David Bricklin again and again until the argument against the bored tunnel make sense.

  • Dorothy

    The person I am mentioning was talking about Dow’s entire speech and Q&A – which was more extensive than mentioned here. I was concerned that the article focused on one aspect discussed, but left out other issues he addressed.

  • Anonymous

    Dumping more traffic to/from the Bored Tunnel North Portal into the Mercer Mess corridor from I-5 to Elliott is a huge mistake. The Surface Boulevard option can work better mainly because it keeps traffic on the Alaskan Way & Elliott/Western corridor which is more suitably commercial, has fewer cross streets and cross-street traffic, fewer stoplights, less hillclimb, and the shorter, straighter route to Interbay. A bridge over the RR tracks at Broad Street would help, during construction and after. Keep the Battery Street Tunnel and the Broad Street Underpass. Forget the DBT & Mercer West widening nonsense. The DOT crew has committed fraud. Doug MacDonald could go to jail.

  • Monster
  • Agilestory

    Constantine works every day in downtown Seattle and has lived in West Seattle since he was born, so he’s pretty familiar with the state of Seattle’s transportation grid.

  • Agilestory

    Constantine works every day in downtown Seattle and has lived in West Seattle since he was born, so he’s pretty familiar with the state of Seattle’s transportation grid.

  • Oh, please

    Get over yourself. You’ve been just as involved in the insulting and name-calling as anyone else, and you know it.

  • sarah

    I don’t support anything in particular. But things cost money, and since the only money out there for ANYTHING is with the state (and it is a state road), and they want the tunnel, the tunnel we will get.

    Think as broadly as you wish, Fount, but if you wish to run with anything other than the tunnel, you must pay for it. Perhaps you and David could go halves.

  • Joe Biden

    That’s because at 10am in Seattle everyone is inside working. At 10am in Kent everyone is driving around looking for drugs and prostitutes.

  • The Biden

    If bad design was considered fraud and punishable by imprisonment everyone at Microsoft would be in jail.

  • tvguide

    Well, regardless of your opinion, you have to hand it to PubliCola for making so much hay from the viaduct. Stoking the fire of car/anti-car debate produces mucho hits on the internet. Without the AWV and DBT, Josh and Erica would be living under the viaduct right now, which would be very sad,

  • Anonymous

    Better the slurs than the beatdown like what happened in Baltimore, by two African American females.

  • Anonymous

    Better the slurs than the beatdown like what happened in Baltimore, by two African American females.

  • Nemo

    The very fact that Constantine is resorting to these hysterics (and he is not the first one), shows how truly worried they are about realising they have lost the high ground by spewing nonsense. Not how much they are concerned about doing the right thing, for everyone..Old talking points and hysterics don’t negate current conditions, although they are certainly tyring their damndest to make it appear so.

    Careful what he wishes for, as people may aboandon HIM instead. No one seems to be concerned about getting the most for the money, and having the flexiblity to deal with the traffic and street grid. This is not your puppy’s DBT. it’s now a mangy, undisciplined, fully grown adult.

    NB. Electric and hydrogen cars won’t do a thing about congestion.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    You clearly have not followed Dow’s political career–he has a long history of standing up for what he believes in. Unlike you (and McGinn, for that matter) he participated in the stakeholder meetings. He entered that process favoring the surface option. Over the course of the 16 meetings, it became apparent to him, and nearly everyone else (including Cary Moon!) that they couldn’t make it work and the tunnel was the best option.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    The no downtown exits is one of the myths used against the tunnel. There are currently 2 exits, which are choke points that are severely backed up during rush hour. The tunnel allows cars to access Alaskan, 1st and 4th Avenues and filter into downtown essentially in the exact same manner as the surface plan–from countless different points. Unlike with the surface plan though, thru traffic is removed from those streets so you can actually use them to get into town rather than just sitting there idling.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Dow has a long proven track record of standing up for what he believes in–just ask anyone out in the 34th district. If he was going to pander to anyone, he would just as likely pander to the loudmouth stranger readers as to the downtown business lobby. He raised over a million dollars in his last campaign and most of that was from small donors of the stranger ilk. He has studied this issue for 10 years, and probably was thinking about it for quite a while even before the earthquake. He’s a lot more informed on this than most of the people shooting their mouths off about it.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Cary Moon has talked about 1/3 of current trips disappearing–that’s code for forcing people out of cars. And that might be well and good except this is an existing hiway at the core of our urban area, so what will happen is a lot of businesses and people will be forced out to places like Auburn. And Nick Licata’s consultant on this found that the surface plan causes more pollution because cars are sitting there idling. Another finding was that the surface plan would so max out the downtown streets it would make it nearly impossible to add more transit.
    The 38,000 figure is a BS number–there are many easy ways to tweak the tolling so that most thru traffic uses the tunnel.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Hysterics? By Cary Moon’s own admission 1/3 of car trips will disappear–code for forcing people out of cars by creating gridlock. Dow has stated that it’s true that traffic will seek it’s own level–it’s just that in this case the capacity being removed is at the core, and that will force people out to surrounding areas, causing sprawl. He’s very much opposed to building new freeways out in the exurbs, which is exactly what will happen to our 1 billion in state money if we don’t take it.

  • Anonymous

    I believe Wsdot ‘rigged’ their studies. That’s considered fraud, a punishable crime.
    The DBT is a bad plan and Wsdot directors know it.

  • Anonymous

    Shut up. No one is saying “No one’s going to take the tunnel.” I’ve been saying all along that dumping Interbay/Ballard traffic onto the Mercer corridor is wrong because Mercer is overloaded with traffic through Lake Union, Queen Anne is “residential” and both districts are pedestrian-oriented. Nice try, but stupid.
    The report suggests the north portal area can’t handle the least amount of additional traffic. Some improvements there are a good idea, especially reconnecting the grid at John, Thomas and Harrison streets. But, that is possible to do even BETTER with keeping the Battery Street Tunnel and the Broad Street Underpass. Wsdot is robbing the treasury for road projects the directors know are huge mistakes. Wsdot’s conservative cronies hate Seattle liberalism.

  • fount

    The logic of a true believer. Because 70% of viaduct users want to go to or from downtown, the exits downtown are used so often they become “choke points.” The tunnel’s solution: remove them. Then, the remaining 30% who actually want to use the tunnel won’t be stuck at any “choke points.”

    Oh, and following IP Freely’s style of argument from above, I suppose I should end by saying, “You’re an ugly whore.”

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    The people no longer stuck at the choke points are the ones accessing downtown, not the ones using the tunnel, Mr Logic. And don’t you pin that whore comment on me, I said I don’t condone it, merely that I understood how someone could be pissed enough at Erica for obviously trolling through several minutes of video to find a denigrating outtake because she disagrees with him on this issue. That’s the kind of shit the Rs do in their 3rd party campaign ads. So fuck her, if she wants to pull that kind of stunt on someone who’s widely regarded as our most intelligent and effective progressive leader then the grouchy little she-gnome deserves whatever shit people want to heap on her.

  • Johns

    actually, no. Most of the expense is interchange and other car-related expenses. Light rail is a relatively small portion.

  • Guest

    Wow, though. That a post containing a casual, bizarre, and trollish use of a homophobic slur has been allowed to stand for over a day is a huge failure on the part of the moderators, and makes the site as a whole seem questionable. If that’s the quality of discourse present here, you might as well just go read the seattle times comment threads.

  • Guest

    What the unmitigated hell? So this site is completely unmoderated? I wonder if we could get away with dumping stuff from 4chan here…

  • Guest

    This “car trips disappearing is code for forcing people out of cars” rhetoric is wrong on the face of it. Many, many people (including me) do not enjoy driving and only do it when they have to, because they have to. Provide alternatives (like decent transit) and I will GLADLY get off the road — which leaves more road space for people like you, who like driving so much that you’ll only leave your car by force.

  • Guest

    So I’m wondering: the surface/transit people have many examples (San Francisco, Vancouver B.C., Portland) of cities removing freeways and, for whatever reason, not experiencing gridlock. Likewise, there are a ton of examples of cities adding freeway capacity and still experiencing congestion due to induced demand (Caro’s biography of Robert Moses lays out in detail how this happened in NYC).

    Are there any examples from the pro-tunnel side of cities removing freeways and then _actually getting gridlocked_? This is a serious question…

  • http://profiles.google.com/christopher.stefan Christopher Stefan

    Grover, not nearly bold enough! Clearly we need a 16 lane elevated freeway through downtown. While we’re at it we should double the width of I-5 as well as replace Denny/Mercer with a highway connecting the two.

  • http://profiles.google.com/christopher.stefan Christopher Stefan

    Grover, not nearly bold enough! Clearly we need a 16 lane elevated freeway through downtown. While we’re at it we should double the width of I-5 as well as replace Denny/Mercer with a highway connecting the two.

  • http://profiles.google.com/christopher.stefan Christopher Stefan

    Grover, not nearly bold enough! Clearly we need a 16 lane elevated freeway through downtown. While we’re at it we should double the width of I-5 as well as replace Denny/Mercer with a highway connecting the two.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    That is an excellent question. Unfortunately I don’t think there are many instances of freeway removals. And when they have been removed they were in very different situations than the quite unique set up we have here. San Francisco ex-pats have, for instance, pointed out the extreme dissimilarities with the embarcadero. The freeways that have been torn down were not as critical to their regions, or had an effective means to replace their capacity, or they wouldn’t have been torn down in the first place.

    A lot has been made of the well established phenomena of adding capacity simply fueling new demand. The tunnel does not add capacity however, it merely relocating an existing hiway underground so that it no longer fucks up our waterfront. Constantine believes that reducing that much capacity at the core will cause sprawl by forcing people to relocate to outlying areas. He wants the same thing as most of the surface people, it’s just that he has more information available to him, a much broader knowledge base, and has thought it through more carefully than the knee jerk all cars and freeways are bad all the time folks. He is also responsible for ensuring that our buses are able to function and aren’t idling in a gridlocked morass, and that our economy recovers and thrives. It’s easy for sanctimonious capitol hill kids to demand idealistic solutions. So once again he’s the adult in the room.

  • Godwin

    Yeah. Been to Vancouver BC recently?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/GEWCRKWNCMRUT7GQ6GCKQSMYV4 Carlton

    And Constantine wants to tax us to pay for keeping people in their cars.

  • Gomez

    Nelson/Nygaard are an engineering firm specializing mainly in developing public transit systems. Their bias and agenda behind any study they conduct, conclusion they draw or action they advocate is clear to anyone willing to pay attention.

  • Gomez

    They’re going to spend the money either way or it’s going to disappear into some other WA road project. If they don’t build a tunnel, they will rebuild the double decker highway.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Actually he wants to tax us to pay for more bus service, if you’re paying attention.

  • Isaac Patterson Freely III

    Ok, your response was better.

  • Anonymous

    Their study is more credible than your opinion. I read the executive summary and was impressed with its clarity. Bored Tunnel proponents and peanut gallery advocates are the ones trying to hide their bias or agenda. Seattle really has no choice but to invest in transit. That couldn’t be more obvious.

  • Anon.

    Constantine just went full-out anti-transit cars-and-asphalt-worshipper whackjob.

    Wow.

    If that stupid argument is all he can come up with for a very badly designed overpriced POS tunnel — the shallow-bore design made some sense, the deep-bore is absurd — then it’s clear he’s got nothing. Which makes me wonder who’s paying him kickbacks for the deep bore tunnel.

  • Anon.

    The Alaskan Way Viaduct has no importance to the region; this has been shown before. It’s not used for long-distance trips; those use I-5. It’s used primarily for trips into downtown… which the deep-bore tunnel won’t serve.

    The deep-bore tunnel is a solution looking for a problem. Constantine just showed that he’s the screaming baby in the room. If the adults were in charge, the deep-bore tunnel would have been abandoned as soon as it was rejected by the initial Alternatives Analysis process (because a shallow tunnel is cheaper and better in every way). Instead, politicians looking for kickbacks appear to be in charge.

  • Anon

    There just isn’t that much through traffic on the Alaskan Way Viaduct — less than half of it is through traffic. The Dumb Deep Bore Tunnel omits any downtown exit, and therefore forces the half of the traffic which is headed downtown onto the surface, or I-5, or makes those trips “disappear”.

    It’s a *dumb plan*. Building a super-expensive tunnel for less than half the trips currently taken on the viaduct is just dumb.

  • Anon

    And yet he obviously never even bothered to read the professional studies which concluded that a deep bore tunnel was a stupid idea because a shallow tunnel combined with the seawall was cheaper and better in every way (including having downtown exits).

    That doesn’t sound very informed to me.

  • Anon.

    Digesting your argument, you’re saying that a very expensive tunnel is worth it to carry 30% of the current Viaduct traffic.

    That doesn’t pass any cost-benefit test.

  • Anon

    I guess Dow believes in standing up for stupid, bad ideas.

    The deep bore tunnel is strictly inferior in every way to a shallow tunnel. Dow didn’t bother to fight for *that*, but a more expensive, less effective deep bore tunnel which will pour 70% of Viaduct traffic onto the surface…. sure, he’ll fight for THAT!

  • Anon

    I guess Dow believes in standing up for stupid, bad ideas.

    The deep bore tunnel is strictly inferior in every way to a shallow tunnel. Dow didn’t bother to fight for *that*, but a more expensive, less effective deep bore tunnel which will pour 70% of Viaduct traffic onto the surface…. sure, he’ll fight for THAT!

  • Anon

    Remember, WSDOT rejected the deep-bore tunnel idea in their original studies, back in the original Alternatives Analysis.

    After the shallow-bore tunnel was designed and had gone through the EIS process and everything, it apparently lost political support, some politicians went into a smoke-filled back room and decided to support a deep-bore idea instead. I have no idea whose deep pockets are paying for this outrageously bad idea, but it’s clear that’s what it is — it originated in a shady backroom deal in Olympia, contrary to every study by WSDOT, so there’s got to be a payoff involved somewhere. I suggest looking through the list of property owners adjacent to Alaskan Way for one who would have been particularly inconvenienced by a shallow tunnel, and then looking for one among those who particularly hates transit…. or owns a tunnel-boring-machine company.

  • Anon

    You can’t “tweak” tolling to fix the problems that not very many people want to bypass downtown, and I-5 provides a free bypass of downtown. Fundamentally, the deep-bore tunnel simply won’t be able to collect meaningful amounts of toll revenue. Even if it’s untolled it will be half-empty; if tolled it will be almost completely empty.

    It’s just a moronic design, has been since it was unveiled in the back rooms of Olympia.

  • Panducle

    I’m not certain if anyone cares what Dow Consatintine was doing while he was vigilantly working his way through college as a bartender – sleeping with the available cocktail waitress. Years later, at a supposedly hip party he attempted to do the same thing. Possilbly he was with his livetime partner at this time. I thought Eddie Vedder was a thoughtful person, I’m dissapointed.

  • Panducle

    Por favor, someone more technologically advanced, please remove, there are some spelling errors