Viva La Cola!

Founded in January 2009, PubliCola is a blog about Seattle written by journalists who are dedicated to non-partisan, original daily reporting that prioritizes a balanced approach to news. Started by longtime local editor and award-winning reporter Josh Feit, PubliCola is the first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol.

PubliCola was off and running. In June 2009, PubliCola hired another award-winning journalist, super-sourced Seattle city hall reporter Erica C. Barnett.

People were afraid that blogging would change journalism. Instead, we believe journalism can change blogging. Twenty-first century journalism may look and feel different, and yes Erica isn't afraid to get cranky, but we're committed to making sure online news still delivers independent, reliable, even-keeled coverage. And most of all, we're committed to making sure the coverage sparks honest civic debate.

Bringing you cola for the people, PubliCola is named after Publius Valerius PubliCola, the alias for the authors of the Federalist Papers—the original bloggers.

The first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol and Seattle city hall, PubliCola has been called a “must-read” by the Seattle Post Intelligencer and a hot “New Media Mover and Shaker” by Seattle Magazine—which also cited our own Erica C. Barnett as the city's No. 1 news nerd.

An Adult Conversation about Adult Entertainment and Budget Deficits

The state’s financial situation is bleak. Revenues are plunging, we can’t raise taxes, the recession isn’t going away, and legislators are making deep cuts into core programs. We have to find a way to generate new funding, but we’re running hard into a wall of shallow politics and antiquated morals.

For Washington State, gaming and liquor are two revenue sources begging to be expanded. In Seattle, we’re squandering millions of dollars in potential revenues. Our current elected politicians are willing to sacrifice jobs, education, and health care in order to avoid an open discussion on how to make money from things they publicly find distasteful. It’s time we had an honest and open, mature conversation on adult entertainment.

Adult businesses, obviously, can have negative impacts. But as with any business, the state and city can mitigate these impacts by  regulating them and ensuring that they operate safely and responsibly.

Washington currently makes no direct revenue from tribal gaming, a $1.6 billion dollar industry in this state. In 2005, Gov. Gregoire passed on a compact with the tribes that would have brought $140 million per year into state coffers. It’s time to revisit this deal and get that money.

Minnesota is considering legalizing slot machines in bars statewide and the state estimates the expanded gambling would generate $630 million a year in new state revenue. In Pennsylvania, slots provided $616.5 million in revenue last year.  With over 1.4 million more people in Washington State than Minnesota, and with a more aggressive licensing plan than Pennsylvania (where only 10 of 14 potential licenses are operating), Washington could see even more revenue.

Those two moves alone could generate at least a quick $770 million per year for our state.

Despite the recent loss of two poorly worded liquor-privatization measures, it seems clear that many people in this state would like more access to liquor during more hours. People—at least people on this side of the mountains—are frustrated with the lack of selection, frustrated by the lack of stores, frustrated by the ridiculous hours, and frustrated by the quality of service. So how about tripling the number of liquor stores in the state, operating them seven days a week and on holidays, and keeping them open later hours? If the state currently makes $200 million per year from liquor sales and taxes, I’m pretty sure we could double that amount.

If we go further, and get the state out of the liquor retail business entirely, licensing retailers in a limited way, keeping much of the markup we now get but expanding outlets, improving service, increasing product choices, and hiring cheaper non-union labor, we could see even more revenue from retail liquor sales.

How could the state make even more from liquor sales? Get rid of closing times. At the city level, existing closing times costs cities precious public safety dollars and are creating an unsafe scenario at 2am.

More, you say? Allow drinking in strip clubs. Tons of states do it, from Texas to our friends down in Oregon.

Without increasing taxes, we could raise some $1.5 billion in annual revenues for the state. These aren’t short-term federal government bailout dollars, but long-term income to the state and city governments.

And that’s not even considering at the secondary money that would come from additional sales taxes, increased tourism, construction and new jobs (in Illinois, just 9 riverboat casinos employed 7,083 people, and paid $495 million in taxes, 600 new liquor store means over 2,000 new jobs, etc.)

With this money we could:

• Fully fund the Basic Health Plan, which offers subsidized health insurance to 66,000 low-income individuals: $347 million.

• Fully fund the Disability Lifeline grant for the temporarily unemployable, which serves 28,000 people a month, and the Disability Lifeline Medical Program, which serves 21,000 clients who have a temporary disability and are unable to work each year: $327 million.

• Pay for all employee salary increases called for under Initiative 732 for K-12 and higher education teachers and school employees:
$280 million.

• Fund K-4 class-size reduction funds provided to school districts that exceed the state’s basic education allocation: $216 million.

• Cover more than a third of the $860 million needed for the Student Achievement Program under Initiative 728, which mandated smaller class sizes, extended learning time for students and professional development for teachers.

Without additional revenues, the state plans to cut all those programs in the next budget.

At the city level, we see more of the same.

In Tukwila, which has a population of just 18,000, the city made $4.2 million from gambling excise taxes in 2009-2010.  In Kenmore, the now-closed 11th Frame card room, along with the attached Kenmore Lanes, generated the most tax revenue of any business in the city. Shoreline makes more than $3 million annually in gambling taxes. In Federal Way, the only card room in town, P.J. Pockets, is responsible for approximately $840,000 of the city’s gambling tax revenues and employs about 120 people.

In contrast, card rooms are currently illegal in Seattle.

If the city changed the law, Seattle could open just four card rooms and make $4 million per year in gambling excise taxes. If the state allowed slots, more liquor stores, extended hours, and liquor in strip clubs, we could also generate millions more tax dollars and jobs for Seattle as these businesses open up and operate here.

The bottom line is that we’re leaving tons of money on the table—money we desperately need for important government programs to make this state a great place to live. Money that other great cities like London, Chicago, Austin and our neighbors Portland and Vancouver, BC, rely on. Here, we’re sacrificing education, health care and jobs to Prohibition-era values. We rejected these values in 1933. It’s time to finally change the laws.




  • Olymeb

    Unofortunately, in order to have adult conversations, you need adults to be in leadership positions in Olympia. Haven’t seen any leadership comming out of Olympia for a while. Sounds like a great idea for a few more citizen initiatives!

  • yup

    Sssssshhhhhhh. Tim Eyman is lurking around here….

  • gloomy gus

    Well, having done what you could to defeat the Gates tax measure, I suppose it’s only fair you’d try to make up for it with something that coincides so nicely with your business model.

  • Meinert

    GG – so your answer is to just increase taxes, not create new business? Sigh…my liberal friends, I agree, we need an income tax. But at the same time if we do not find ways to create new business, along with more efficient regulations that encourage better business and risk taking, we will never get out of this recession. And that spells doom for the environment, for families, for the elderly, law enforcement, food safety, and all those who need the social safety net of government. We can’t just tax, we need to create more economic activity. If you have other ideas that we can do given our current situation (including the very lame I-1033 passing) please propose them.

  • gloomy gus

    I’d like you to have supported I-1033 and forwarded these too. That’s water under the bridge, of course. But for now, please don’t paint me as wanting only to increase taxes, no matter how much all of us enjoy knocking down a good straw man here and there.

  • beyond jaded

    So, the Washington Restaurant Association, who have been shopping this proposal to legislators, tribal lobbyists, and other interested parties like the Washington State Lottery, and the Governor…any headway? One question I have is how do you plan to curcumvent the cities (like Seattle) that specicially prohibit gambling? Another question is who really benefits? Throw some alluring numbers from other states, have a couple of simple solutions, blame those pesky injuns… and poof! free money! A billion dollars worth? Six Billion dollars worth?

  • Brian

    The reason we got into this economic recession was due to excessive risk taking. We don’t need more risk taking. What we lack is economic stability. Increased risk taking will only further exacerbate the systemic imbalances present in our economy right now. All these thing you mention (the environment, public safety, etc.) can all be negatively impacted through the revenue solutions you mention, but you complete ignore any of the social costs (that quickly become real $ costs).

    This is in many ways self-interested commentary and there is nothing even mentioned as to your personal and economic interests in some of the proposals you recommend.

  • Barleywine

    I agree except for one aspect.
    Hunkering down does not contribute to economic activity.

    We need to have fun, and I hope Seattle can wrap itself around that idea. At least as an experiment.
    And a personal plea; let’s have smoking in any establishment that chooses to allow it. I voted for the ban, but that was stupid. Seattle, and the rest of Washington, has lost so much of my business because of that.

    We have enough room here for all kinds of businesses to thrive if we’d only let them.

  • Wider Perspective

    Why not raise the concept of spending money on benefits for those people who are in the country, state, county and city legally? How many millions of tax dollars are being spent to subsidize illegals at the expense of legal citizens? Why not bring that into the discussion as well?

  • sarah

    Why would the tribes be interested in that proposition? And why would opening up gambling in Seattle and maybe a few other cities provide all that benefit for the whole state? And who would pay for the state employees/contracted private-enterprise employees to oversee that gambling enterprise? And just how many people are interested in drinking until 4 am instead of 2 am, and exactly why would drinking until 4 am mean lower criminal justice costs?

  • ceryous

    We saw that the strip clubs were havens for prostitution and racketeering. We know that more access to alcohol will promote drunk driving and teenage drinking. We know gambling destroys families and is regressive, hurting the lower income families the hardest.

    There is not only a social cost to these issues, but also a financial cost. How much more policing will occur at alcohol fueled strip clubs, how much more costs in judging and jailing drunk drivers and spousal abuse, how much more for alcohol prevention programs, gambling prevention programs, how much more medical care for victims of drunk driving?

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr Baker

    Can’t we just stop giving tax money to people that do not want to pay taxes first?
    Corporate welfare must end.
    Levy equalization must end.

    We do not need more strip clubs or gambling joints, not really the recipe for a family friendly community, so these social shitholes will find their way into neighborhoods where poor folks that don’t have political mu$cle will have to suffer with every downside these businesses play host to.
    It is bad enough being poor, it both sucks and blows to have to put up with the kind of society you are promoting, in somebody else’s neighborhood.

  • Jakers

    I’m to the left and all for government telling people and corporation what to do with their money and life, but part of what I get in exchange is being able to tell corporations and people what they can’t do because I don’t like it, and this for one is something I don’t think our society needs and I don’t like. I guess I’m a social services liberal, social morals conservative.

  • Ipeefreely

    Well, I can field the last one. Having staggered closing times means you don’t have a bunch of angry drunks, still full of energy because it’s only 1:40, vomited out onto the street all at once. If there is no set closing time people get tired and go home in small innocuous drifts, critical mass is never achieved for the kind of brawling and hooliganism that requires a large police presence. and I would be interested in drinking until 4 am occasionally, and until 2:30 or 3 fairly often. As it is now most bars are so terrified of our draconian liquor control board that they have last call at 1:15 and throw you out at 1:40, which is something you’d expect of Utah.

  • ivan

    Whatever Meinert advocates will always result in more Benjamins in Meinert’s pocket. He never disappoints.

  • TMN

    It’s the regressive source of gambling income that I have the biggest problem with. Yes, we can generate millions of dollars by siphoning it at $2 a pull from the pockets of the poorest and least educated. It doesn’t mean we SHOULD.

  • Anc

    I’ve never understood the streak of Puritanism that runs underneath a lot of Seattle/Washington’s laws. I mean, seriously even Alabama has private liquor stores and alcohol in strip clubs. Thankfully they mostly seem to be legacy laws and are slowly being chipped away at. Be nice if we went at them with a chainsaw though….

  • Anc

    You say that like it is necessarily a bad thing…?

  • Meinert

    It’d be fine if it was true, but unfortunately for me it’s not. In this case, it could be true that if I had a gambling license one bar I own would benefit from slots. But I’m not planning on opening a strip club or card room. And money from Tribal Gaming would be going to the State not me.

  • Meinert

    A lot of it has to do with the rampant corruption in the SPD and local politics that came to light in the 60′s and 70′s. Read the book “On the Take” and you’ll get some background. But this is a new era.

  • Anonymous

    There are few things more stable than peoples’ desire for drink, sex, and games of chance.

  • Anonymous

    Because an ‘illegal’ kid dying of a preventable illness is still a kid dying.

  • Dmeinert

    Oops – above I meant 1053 not 1033. Either way I opposed both.

  • Dmeinert

    Oops – above I meant 1053 not 1033. Either way I opposed both.

  • Brian

    I’m not advocating for hunkering down per se. I’m advocating for business not being enabled to take foolish risks that contribute to our boom and bust economic cycle we’ve experienced in the last 10-20 years. Its getting worse as we continue to incentivize risky behavior by “entrepreneurs” who chose to pass along most of the consequences of business failure onto society. But maybe some people think another housing explosion is a good thing.

  • gloomy gus

    Duh to me as well, look how I followed merrily along – the only initiative I wish you hadn’t opposed was the Gates tax initiative, 1098. Of course the others were odious.

  • Blue Light

    Tribal gambling cuts were dealt away for campaign contributions by Christine Gregoire. So that ship has sailed. However, there are untapped opportunities in the “sovereign” arena (and maybe we could negotiate a better deal with them).

    Tribal casinos should offer marijuana bars and prostitutes.

  • Matt the Engineer

    I’d expand this conversation a bit. In theory, I’d remove any law against victimless crimes and just tax them at a level where we can discourage their use and pay for programs to mitigate negative impacts (rehab centers, public information services, etc.).

    The two areas where this would be hard is: hard drugs and prostitution. It would make me uncomfortable for society to profit off creating addiction or selling sex. Not that these should be outlawed (outlawing something just makes it unregulated, it clearly doesn’t stop it), they should just be heavily regulated and any tax money should go directly to mitigation and education – not the general fund.

  • ratcityreprobate

    Shortly before midnight on Sunday some guy in Phoenix orders a drink at a strip club, goes out and gets his 38 revolver from his car, comes back in and kills two people chosen at random. Oh yeah, we need some of that action here, we are such repressed puritans.

    We could also sell Wazzu and UDub to the University of Phoenix, close Walla Walla for a couple of years and send everybody home on a sabbatical and tell them to come back in couple of years when the economy and tax revenues have improved.

    There are just all kinds of innovative ways we could deal with the financial challenges faced by the State, counties and cities, unfortunately, few if any, make any sense. Since we (collectively) are unwilling pay the taxes for things we need or want we will just have to do without, and it is going to be ugly.

  • http://www.twitter.com/joeszi Joe Szilagyi

    The sooner we kill off the remaining Puritanical nonsense the better. If other cities, states, and nations can handle these little vices, there is no reason we cannot.

  • http://www.twitter.com/joeszi Joe Szilagyi

    The sooner we kill off the remaining Puritanical nonsense the better. If other cities, states, and nations can handle these little vices, there is no reason we cannot.

  • Blue Light

    Prostitution is a “green” job. And, probably, a whole lot more viable than the green jobs pitched by our legislature and myriad non-profit advocacy organizations (like Sightline).

  • Jakers

    Totally agree with you on the money not flowing into the general fund and only going to mitigation and education. And agreed on the hard drugs and prostitution, but I see no problem with keeping lesser harmful activities/substances illegal.

    Just on the victimless crime portion, is not wearing a seatbelt and not using a helmet a victimless crime or are there costs to society?

  • Jakers

    I guess my friends to the right would argue for killing off all government babysitting. They would prefer killing off public education, social security, medicare, etc. and would call it social nonsense that individuals should be able to handle. I say, if the government wants to force me to wear a seatbelt or helmet, shouldn’t the government be able to control other aspects of our lives that I see as socially beneficial?

  • http://www.twitter.com/joeszi Joe Szilagyi

    I see what you did there!

  • Matt the Engineer

    I see infractions like that as being regulated more than outlawed. We create incentives to wear your helmet – if you get caught you pay a bit of money and have the inconvenience of being stopped by a police officer. You don’t go to jail. Yes, it’s a clumsy incentive mechanism and I’d much prefer charging people a dollar or two every time they ride without a helmet, but there’s not a clear taxing mechanism like there would be with pot or card rooms.

  • Matt the Engineer

    Wait, I think I missed something. Did you really mean “I see no problem with keeping lesser harmful activities/substances illegal.

    “? Because I think you meant “making (them) legal”. Unless you’re making a much different point than I thought you were making.

  • Meinert

    So, for the record, I voted for 1098 and in the end ceased my opposition to it in light of the other tax issues on the ballot. I stand by my original thoughts on it – I’m for an income tax, just one that doesn’t hit small business owners so much – but, in light of 1053, I wish 1098 would have passed. We need to fund government.

  • gloomy gus

    I’m so glad! Thanks for letting me know.

  • Anc

    Added to my Amazon Wish List. Thanks for the recommendation.

  • Goldy

    Meinert isn’t just calling for something minor, he’s calling for a radical transformation that will make every bar in WA state like every bar in NV, putting slot machines into all our communities, whether we like it or not.

    Anyway, I’ve posted my initial refutation over on Slog: http://bit.ly/dUABZQ

  • J Swift

    Allow me to present another modest proposal. Olympia at present neglects the possibilities to be found in the termination of pregnancy which liberal-minded policy has made licit in our fair state. Such terminations make available a potential nutritional resource whose exploitation would both augment state revenues and provide needed employment in these troubled times. Surely those regions of the world which suffer from dietary inadequacies could benefit from the importation of a low-cost energy-rich high-protein meat product, and thereby grant Washington state an opportunity to do well by doing good.

  • http://twitter.com/mrstevengomez Steven Gomez

    As long as Sen. Margarita Prentice has a seat in the Leg, you’re not getting any additional casino taxes from Indian gaming. They’ve had her in their back pocket since day one (she in fact spear-headed the online gambling ban in WA in part because they felt online poker undermined their market share), and she’s by far the largest voice in the Leg when it comes to regulating the casinos.

  • http://twitter.com/mrstevengomez Steven Gomez

    And you’re certainly not getting slot machines in bars, or cardrooms in Seattle, or anything else that could potentially cut into Indian gaming revenue.

  • Comment

    Not that anyone cares, but I, for one, don’t go in for the games of chance.

  • http://twitter.com/mrstevengomez Steven Gomez

    “Guns don’t kill people….”

    People with self-destructive tendencies will exercise them whether they have access to vices or not. Such people are in the minority and are already going to Shoreline/Tukwila/Tulalip/Muckleshoot to get their vice on, so you’re not solving anything through continued prohibition.

  • Meinert

    Goldy doesn’t get it. He’s thinking like a moralist instead of a pragmatist. His tired old ways of thinking won’t solve our budget issues.

    Do we need to allow slots in every bar like Vegas in order to get $600 million or so in taxes from slots – no way. Pennsylvania gets over $600 million with just 10 gambling licenses for slots. Has their state fallen apart? Nope. Do we need to allow prostitution in order to have drinking in strip clubs and get more tax revenue from them? Nope. Portland and Vancouver BC do it and they seem to be doing better than Seattle. Do we need to allow mega casinos in Belltown in order to allow cardrooms? Nope. Tukwila made $4.2 million in tax revenue from just 3 modest cardrooms this year. Shoreline, Federal Way, and several other nearby cities do it as well.

    Goldy is an old school thinker. He recognizes a few problems with something and wants to just ban it completely. Instead of banning, let’s openly and honestly identify the problems, then find ways to mitigate them, then benefit from the result. The problems are real.

    There are also some big environmental problems with allowing cruise ships docking in Seattle. Should we ban them because of it? No way. We should address the problems. Same with gambling, stripping, alcohol, etc. Goldy I’m sure would love to ban the cruise ships. Among all sorts of other things he just personally doesn’t like but that could generate revenue that will make Seattle a better place.

    The ironic thing is that the Stranger seems to be leading a moralistic anti-fun crusade, anti new tax revenue crusade led by an old curmudgeon. Very weird. Is Savage on vacation or something?

  • Meinert

    Since the Dems in Olympia can’t seem to make the State work by doing some obvious things, maybe it’s time for the left and right – including folks like me and Eyman, to work together to fix some things. I’m sure there is some common ground we could find.

    Maybe we need to get rid of the House of Reps in Oly completely and just have the Senate. Would save a lot of money in elections, staffing, etc. I bet Eyman would get on board with that.

  • Doc Johnson

    Yikes! You Christian zealots are an odd bunch.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr Baker

    Will you stop whining soon?

  • J Galt

    Yes indeed. Instead of purveying a false opium to the people, we should emulate great capitalists such as JJ Astor and provide them with the real thing.

  • Goldy

    Dave… you’re the one who used Minnesota as an example (you know, slots in bars), and then you criticize me for not getting it when I come out in opposition to slots in bars? What’s up with that?

    And speaking of not getting it, do you have any idea how the tribal compacts and the federal laws guiding them work? Do you understand that we can’t unilaterally reopen the compact and demand revenue sharing? And do you realize that if we give a non-tribal, commercial casino a license to build a 3000-slot parlor like the ones you point to in Pennsylvania, then all of our tribes would have the same right too?

    Do you have any idea how the gaming industry works… the economies of scale, the reliance on slots, the relationship between betting limits, house credit and the prevalence (or lack thereof) of loan sharks? Are you familiar with problem gambling statistics? Have you ever read the studies that suggest that local casinos and cardrooms, despite the jobs they create, provide little or no net gain in employment or economic activity, because all but the destination sites merely attract local entertainment dollars away from other venues?

    It’s funny. You call for an adult conversation, and there’s plenty to converse about here, but then you just dismiss me and my arguments as “old school,” “moralistic,” “tired,” “curmudgeonly” and so forth. Huh. That dosn’t seem like a very adult conversation to me. But then, your very call for an adult conversation inherently implies that the other side isn’t capable of one, so you really don’t want a conversation at all, do you?

    I’m not necessarily opposed to extending closing hours or loosening liquor laws, and I didn’t even know you couldn’t serve alcohol in strip clubs. Never been in one. But gambling and tax structure are two issues I know inside out, so if you want to have an adult conversation with me about using the former to prop up the latter, you better do your homework.

  • Michaelp

    Here I am, mixing work and obsessing over my VT-22, and whether I need 7027’s or EL34’s (I would prefer 7027’s, but it looks like, unless I want to pay for more work than a pot cleaning and a cap check, I’m stuck with the EL34’s), and I see that there’s a pissing match between SLOG and Publicola again. Except this time, it pits contributors. In one corner, Dave Meinert – proprietor of establishments that he would like to see make more money. In the other, Goldy – proprietor of horsesass.com (or .org, or whatever the fuck it is).

    And neither can seem to follow the basic premise of the title, at least – an adult conversation. Mr. Meinert gets stuck in the mud with his profit driven motices and…writing style that should be greatly edited, while Goldy ends up in the wide world of hyperbole and moralistic, knee-jerk responses, replete with missing or creating facts (how very will_in_seattle of you).

    But, for fun, I feel like chiming in. I haven’t been commenting much lately (I’m sure much to Josh and Erica’s delight), so I’ll just put it all in one big punch.

    I fully agree that we should see some serious changes to “adult entertainment” in Washington State. To Mr. Meinert, that seems to mean allowing his bars to serve more booze, later hours, and allow gambling at the same time. I’ve been in a Meinert bar. That method will lead to a dram shop claim against a Meinert bar someday.

    That said, the State should look into ways that they could expand selection and hours at state run liquor stores. I wholly disagree with Mr. Meinert’s anti-union rhetoric (but am not surprised – anything that he can do to lower his bottom line, including screwing over workers, sounds right up the alley of some business owners), but if anything, expanding liquor sales to Sundays in some areas has been good for the State’s bottom line. The State should continue that.

    As for gambling – while it is unfair that we don’t allow card rooms in Seattle – Shoreline, White Center, Renton, all have them – there is a significant distinction between card rooms and slot machines. Slot machines cause problems. We have plenty of casinos in the area that allow them, and any sort of expansion – putting the financial and psychological security of many Washingtonians at risk so anti-union folks like Mr. Meinert can make a profit – is a bad, bad idea. I disagree with Goldy that doing so would some way make this area like Atlantic City – comparing apples to oranges – but having the distance between casinos, I believe, is in the best interest of the State as a whole.

    Then there’s the closing times issue. Here, Mr. Meinert is basically on point. While it is unfortunate that many of the policy makers haven’t been out imbibing in 20 years, the way that drinking and nightlife works today leads to binging at the end of the legal serving hours. Extend serving hours, and I believe that this binging, this excessive drinking, will go down.

    And it’s not like every bar would be open 24 hours a day. The market just isn’t there for that. But I fail to see how it would be such a horrible thing to allow the market to determine last call.

    I am, of course, dubious of Mr. Meinert’s numbers. He cites nothing other than his own brain, which I suppose makes this perfect for Publicola. But even if they are true, do we really want to see education in Washington financed on the backs of gambling addicts?

    It’s a shame we can’t have an adult talk about an income tax. It’s a shame that folks like Meinert were more concerned with their bottom line than education and health care for kids in Washington this past year. But creating a vice state so folks like Mr. Meinert can make more money off of other people’s problems, in an attempt to make for better public schools, is not a path that we should walk down, IMHO.

    Luckily, the stodgy folks in Olympia are not likely any time soon to take his side, so there’s that.

  • Meinert

    Michaelp,

    Thanks for the (mostly) thoughtful analysis.

    Let me clarify a few things. In general I am not anti-union. I do however have some issues with how liquor stores and distribution is run in this state from an efficiency standpoint and am unconvinced that state run liquor stores can make a profit paying the union wages and benefits they currently are. I’d be happy to be proven wrong. I’m all for the minimum wage increase coming up next week, and am on the side of the working man and most union labor. But in no way do I think unions are perfect or the best option all the time. But yes, I believe there is a demand for more retail liquor availablity in Washington, better service, and expanded hours and selection.

    And I’m glad we agree on card rooms. Horsey seems to ignore this issue completely. 12 card rooms in Seattle could raise as much money towards the budget hole as the commercial parking tax increase. These aren’t mega casinos. Just fairly humble card rooms. They already exist very near to Seattle, just right over the city line, but we don’t get any of the tax revenue from them. If Tukwila can have 3 with an 18,000 person population, seems Seattle could handle 12 with 560,000 person population.

    As for slots, would you be so opposed to video lottery machines? These seem to work in many other states without too much problem from what I’ve read. Also, in my mind, which I didn’t spell out in the article, slots would be pretty limited. I’d think somewhere along the lines of I-892. Limited to non-tribal, current gambling license holders (I am not one btw), 21 and over venues, and limited by some number per venue. So we wouldn’t be opening any new places with slots (except I’d allow the 12 new Seattle card rooms to have them).

    As for my numbers, all come from research I’ve done, if you doubt any, ask specifics and I’ll send you a link to it. They aren’t made up.

    I am for an income tax in this state. I don’t want a vice state, whatever that means. Everything I proposed is either already legal in this state in some form (card rooms, slots), or is in a neighboring state (extended hours, alcohol in strip clubs).

  • Meinert

    Goldy – other states get money from tribal gaming. Washington does not. California renegotiated their gaming compacts with their Tribes in 2004 and received an initial $1 billion payment to the state and then annual payments between $150 million and $275 million. You’ve done more research on this than I have admittedly, but if other States can get the money, Washington should be able to.

    Are there issues with gambling – hell yes. I’m the first to admit that. Is the answer to that to ban slots in the State? Hell no. Let’s find a way to liberalize our policies on these things and then mitigate the problems. The number of people who are addictied to gambling is a tiny percentage of people who gamble for entertainment. Let’s not punish everyone for the minorities problems. Tax the gambling profits and use that money as one way to help the budget. It’s working elsewhere.

    You’ve also completely ignored my take on card rooms. What’s yours?

    PS – I don’t get your point about Minnesota at all.

  • Michaelp

    First – WTF is up with Disqus and/or Publicola? It kept crashing Firefox, and just is having a shit time working in Chrome…

    Now, admit it, the talk about vacuum tubes and a 1973 Ampeg VT-22 is totally what made the rest of my dribble worth reading ;-) .

    But, to the point – the fact remains that State run liquor stores turn a profit, and that’s with the unionized workers. Should the state move towards privatization? Sure. But, as I stated during the 1100/1105 debate, now is not the time. We have 1,500 good paid folks working those liquor stores, and if the State would expand hours where appropriate, and expand selection where appropriate, that could mean more jobs and more revenue.

    Let’s see…we agree on the card room thing, so I’ll leave that be.

    And yes. I would be opposed to video lottery machines. I understand you’re going through the pull tab fiasco right now, which I’m sure helped put this all in your brain (pull tabs are lame, anyway), but pull tabs are very different from slot machines. Video lottery machines, to me, have many of the same issues I have with slot machines, namely that you can put a bunch of money in at once, and just bet, bet, bet (but I confess, I just have a cursory understanding).

    And there lies a lot of the issues I personally have – gambling at a card table (and they really should allow roulette in card rooms) is a very different experience than a slot machine or video lottery machine. Each time you bet, you are physically handling and betting the money, as opposed to starting with a certain amount in, and not having that same physical connection with the funds (which I’m sure makes no sense, but I get it in my head).

    I am glad to hear you support an income tax, and while I understand the issues you had, as an S-Corp, with 1098 (and fully recognize that you are nowhere near important enough to have had any significant impact either way, no offense), it is unfortunate you chose not to support it.

    And I don’t know what I meant when I typed that. Let’s be honest – I’m probably drunk right now (j/k). The point I was trying to get across is that I would hate to see this State have to begin relying on “adult” industries to fund the government, all because some asshole with a funny shaped face keeps passing initiatives. Slots are legal on reservations, which is a complete different legal entity.

    As for the extended hours, card rooms, and booze in strip joints – I’m right there with you. But there needs to be strict regulation on gambling, to help keep degenerates from become even worse degenerates.

  • Michaelp

    Oh, and eff you! Mostly. Pffft! There was very little thought put into my response!

  • Meinert

    I know, it keeps crashing mine as well. SUCKS.

  • Barleywine

    What’s your view on video poker?
    That’s the only thing I ever got a real kick out of, when they came to Bellevue, Nebraska for a short and happy while. Every grocery store entrance was stuffed with them, and I had a rule: Play eight quarters, and when they’re gone, they’re gone. Continue shopping only when you ran out of quarters or won more than you started with.

    Slots are for grandmothers to get rid every last dime before they die.

    At least with poker you have the illusion of being in control.

  • Goldy

    Dave… yes, we could renegotiate the compacts to include revenue sharing, but as the initial Spokane compact showed (the one Gregoire rejected), the tribes would demand substantial concessions in the form of a dramatic expansion: more slots, no limits, house credit, 24-hour operations and especially, off-reservation casinos.

    Perhaps you have no problem with increasing the size of the tribal gaming industry tenfold, and in putting off-reservation tribal casinos in the middle of population centers, but I just don’t think it’s worth it for $140 million a year.

    And you keep talking about me wanting to ban slots. I’m not proposing that we ban slots anymore than I’m proposing that we ban alcohol. We already have slots, and their within a reasonable drive of 90 percent of the state’s population. I’m just saying that I don’t want slots at every neighborhood bar and restaurant. And judging from the overwhelming defeat of I-892, I’m not in the minority there.

    As for card rooms, yes, allowing them in Seattle would create some card room related revenue for the city, but it would draw revenue away from card rooms in the surrounding jurisdictions, AND from other entertainment related businesses. People only have so much disposable entertainment dollars–if you spend it at a casino, you won’t have it to spend at a restaurant or a theater or a ball game (or a glass museum)–so I don’t see this being a net gain economically, unless you’re looking at pitting one local community against another.

    My objections are not moralistic, they’re utilitarian. I see no evidence that dramatically increasing access to gaming, as you propose, results in a net increase in the common weal. If anything, the opposite. Gambling is addictive, and the profits are disproportionately earned on the backs of addicts. There is a cost to that which you gravely underestimate.

    Finally, my biggest objection to your proposal, and one which I intend to address directly in a subsequent post, is that it lets our elected officials off the hook by suggesting that taxpayers can have something for nothing: the services they want without the taxes they don’t. In fact there are many more responsible and sustainable alternatives to funding our government by promoting an activity that destroys the lives a significant portion of population who engages in it.

  • Barleywine

    I’m agnostic, but leaning Goldy’s way about now.

    Nice posts on both sides, but Goldy is taking the high ground; and the high ground always wins in the end.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    during the last decade population in WA went up 13 percent. taxes went up 50 percent.

    we went from a solvent state with the highest scrutiny, to a corrupt spendthrift one

    even with crisis staring us in the face, there is no talk of halting the out of control spending

  • Barleywine

    I have one from Siig, with a trackball.
    And I hate it.

    Took me too long to figure out that the Num-Lock was on, and sending garbage to the PC. And once I did figure it out, it still sends garbage.
    Mouse buttons have to be smacked to work. Enter key sticks.

    So much for couch life. Should have checked out the HP one first.
    But a PC hooked to the TV/Amp is the future.

    Oh, and I agree with your other stuff, too.

  • http://twitter.com/mrstevengomez Steven Gomez

    Video poker is at least involving. I never understood the allure of slots, of putting in credits and then just pressing a button and watching. For the gaming wonks out there, video poker also has less of a negative expected value than slots (though all gambling has a negative expected value for the consumer: That’s how the casinos get so rich), especially if you play with some sort of useful strategy, so people can often play longer on, say, $20 at video poker than they do at slots.

  • http://twitter.com/scottdavis89 Scott Davis

    Im all for it. My opinion is summed up in what you said about politicians not approving of these activities because they find them distasteful in their personal lives. A politician’s personal life is only one of they many personal lives they should be representing. To play a moral high ground is to ignore genuine interests of constituents.

  • Meinert

    “we could renegotiate the compacts to include revenue sharing, but as the initial Spokane compact showed (the one Gregoire rejected), the tribes would demand substantial concessions in the form of a dramatic expansion: more slots, no limits, house credit, 24-hour operations and especially, off-reservation casinos.”

    Maybe we need a better negotiator. Seriously, look at what California got in 2004 without giving up all the things you say Washington would have had to in 2005. But also, the things you mention aren’t necessarily so bad. An off-reservation Casino inside Seattle could bring the City a lot of money and tourism. And we can get far more than $140 million per year out of the deal if we could negotiate hard. California got an up front payment of $1 billion plus between $100 – $200 million per year. I think the State should be taking a hard stand on Tribal gaming and we should be looking at how the State benefits from it, and try to get more. Tribal donations to the Dems isn’t helping the Dems in power take a hard stand against the Tribes.

    As for slots – if you’re against my plan, then you’re against allowing a limited number of slots in just a small percentage of bars and restaurants that already have gambling licenses. You’re argument is typical straw man attack – you’re arguing against having slots in “very neighborhood bar and restaurant” but that’s not what I want. So are you against having slots in a limited number of bars and at card rooms and racetracks? Rather than tossing the idea altogether, let’s find a way to make it work.

    As to your point on card rooms – there are currently illegal, untaxed games going on all around this city. And I don’t think anyone involved in other entertainment businesses is worried about card rooms taking revenue away from them. And you’re wrong about there not being a net gain to make – you’re just throwing shit at the wall on your arguments here. Card rooms could bring millions a year to the City budget, much more if slots could be allowed at them. Check out the other cities that have them, they all generate serious money. That’s a fact. You’re just guessing at anything different.

    If you don’t see how a net increase to the State and City coffers happens from increased gaming and liquor sales, I don’t know what to tell you. I suppose that’s why you’re a blogger and not a business person or economist. Look at other states for actual facts about what they have been able to bring in.

    But all that said – let’s talk about your biggest objection. I think this is your real objection and your other arguments are weakly argued with little basis in fact. Your biggest concern is that you want higher taxes and more revenue from other places. I agree with you on this. We can’t rely just on gambling and liquor to solve our budget crisis. At best I see $1.5 billion per year going to the State from my proposals. And maybe $15 million per year to the City. This is not near enough to make up for the cuts we’ve had to do to our State and City budgets. But it’s one option that is doable in context of our current situation. Saying you don’t want to rely just on this option is agreeable to me. To totally throw it completely out because you don’t like it is short sighted.