Pedestrian Death Map

Did I miss it, or did you not link to the map?

Did I miss it, or did you not link to the map?

Interesting stuff. It’d be even more interesting if you linked to the map.

I’m curious how Rainier’s death toll compares to Aurora’s, which is similar in traffic, speed, and layout.

Interesting stuff. It’d be even more interesting if you linked to the map.

I’m curious how Rainier’s death toll compares to Aurora’s, which is similar in traffic, speed, and layout.

OK, the map is here.

I count 4 deaths on Rainier, not 7. Where did you get your number, Erica?

There were also 4 deaths on Aurora Ave, and 4 deaths on 24th/23rd Ave going from Montlake to the CD.

Half of the above happened at major intersections with stop lights. It’s unclear from the the map if the others were at intersections, or if there was a light.

This is a good start, but there’s really not enough data here to point to any particular remedy. If we’re going to spend money to improve safety, our decision should be based on a complete data set of pedestrian/car accidents that includes non-fatalities and the circumstances surrounding the accidents (e.g., drunk driver, jaywalker, running a light, etc.).

To identify any design problems, you’d also need to know the average amount of pedestrian and car traffic on the streets, since either one will drive likelihood of accidents up regardless of what we do.

Three deaths in Northgate.

Thanks for the link.

I was Christmas shopping at the Market when I saw the investigators measuring various things at the site of that horrible crash. I couldn’t figure out what had happened, but didn’t really have the stomach to ask. Glad I didn’t.

PS,
Erica, don’t you know to not use the word “accident” when reporting crashes and other street-related carnage? The fact is that in most “accidents” one or more participants are doing things immediately prior that any sane person would suggest to be extremely dangerous: speeding, driving aggressively, or being drunk are some common ones. Thus, they really aren’t very accidental since people are making choices that directly result in the heinous consequences. The word “accident” somewhat absolves the responsible driver (or walker, or biker) for their possibly dangerous and selfish choices.

“…people are going to keep jaywalking across Rainier, and people are going to keep getting hit.” This would seem to be a pedestrian stupidity problem. Solution: don’t jaywalk.

And where do you get that MLK Jr Way has fewer lanes than Rainier Ave? MLK Way is a lot wider than Rainier, due to the light rail down the middle, which is about as wide as 3 traffic lanes, plus the 2 lanes of traffic in each direction, and a left-turn lane for traffic at many intersections.

Perhaps the main difference is that the light rail tracks provide somewhat of a physical barrier to prevent jaywalking on MLK Jr Way, thus protecting pedestrians from their own stupidity.

Yup. The City’s Pedestrian Master Plan, as underfunded as it is, looks at a whole slew of variables when attempting to prioritize what work can be done with available funding. Engineering is only one component of pedestrian safety; education and enforcement are two critical pieces as well.

Should also point out that MLK and Rainier are vastly different streets in terms of pedestrian destinations; whole stretches of MLK are extremely residential in nature. We really need better ped count (something Mike O’Brien is working on) data city-wide.

Thanks, John, good to know. Is that data is publicly available?

Time of day and day of year would be interesting information to help better understand the problems. And non-fatality incidents would be also good to have.

its sad when you recognize one of the spots. the spot at alki was from some drag racer drunk who went off the road and killed some guy who was on his skateboard on the path

That sounds horrible. This is an important distinction to make I think, when a car hits a pedestrian (skater, etc.) that is on a sidewalk (not even in the road) this is a completely different issue at hand that is not so much car vs. ped but more like a complete idiot low-life vs. the world.

Although I’m a huge pedestrian advocate, I disagree about using the word accident. Accident means it wasn’t on purpose. These drivers didn’t hit the pedestrians on purpose. If they did, that would be vehicular assault or homicide. So while it is true that we need to make sure people know that in a lot (or perhaps most) of these the driver was at fault, it was still an accident.

“As long as people have to walk a half-mile in each direction to get to the nearest stop light and back, people are going to keep jaywalking across Rainier, and people are going to keep getting hit.”
A note on this: every single intersection is a crosswalk whether it’s marked or unmarked, except when signs specifically say it’s not! Drivers are legally required to stop for pedestrians crossing at any intersection. The only problem is, drivers don’t know this, and neither do pedestrians, so it would be good to add some marked crosswalks along Rainier, and to do some traffic calming. Here’s some info about it: http://www.seattlepi.com/transportation/414017_gettingthere11.html

You mean like building a pedestrian bridge and then having to send cops to try to stop all the people who refuse to use it and instead run out into traffic? How has that worked out?

you’ll notice a concentration of these deaths in areas where wandering out into traffic without looking is a cultural norme. Anyone who has driven in the CD or Rainier Valley knows what I’m talking about.

“4 deaths on Rainier”
“4 deaths on Aurora Ave”
“4 deaths on 24th/23rd”

Anyone see a pattern here?

“very single intersection is a crosswalk whether it’s marked or unmarked”

Which has to be one of the stupidest laws around…one I regularly see cops ignoring.

Build more ped crossings, British style zebra crossings, clear, bright with no parking near them, not these half-assed near invisible Seattle ones with a mishmash of signage and fading paint. Don’t expect cars to be stopping every block some moron decides to dart out. I mean, imagine the CO2 emissions!

The “death map” was originally posted at Walking in Seattle http://walkinginseattle.troyh.us/?p=1265

Yes – people die in four-packs.

And now I’ve seen the city actually removing xwalks. Literally grinding them out of existance. The roadway is still there. The need to cross the street is still there, but the one thing that actually helps cars respect pedestrian right-of-way is removed. When I assert my right to cross the street, I do so very actively and i stare down cars (and don’t step all the way out in front of them), but man I have been yelled at, honked at, screamed at, flicked off, and every thing else because people are ignorant of the fact that I have the right to stop them and cross at intersections. More striped crosswalks would help immensely.

Anyone have info on the change in traffic volumes between MLK and Rainier pre/post light rail? I know I don’t take MLK anymore though my house is 1 block off of it, because though the pavement is quite smooth, the lights and train priority add 5-10 minutes from Cap Hill. I’d rather drive down Rainier and go through the more vibrant business districts there. I’m just wondering if increased traffic fatalities was in parallel with increased traffic.

It would be useful to show separately the three ‘categories’ of vicitims: children, intoxciated, and elderly.

The removal of crosswalks is partly to do with liability… but mostly to do with evidence that crosswalks without any kind of signaling can be MORE dangerous for pedestrians because they do not assert their rights as you do, but simply assume cars will stop for them.

I wouldn’t stop for you no matter how hard you stare. Go to a cross walk or wait until traffic clears. Afterall, you don’t to cause more CO2 emissions do you?

You forgot ‘members of certain communities that simply wander into the street life idiots without ever looking’.

I call it the CD/Rainier Valley Frogger.

You sound like a real gem

You forgot idiots who make rude comments they other wise wouldn’t if they weren’t hiding behind a computer and a moniker.

Yeah, I figured it was liability and some stupid tort that made the city responsible as a crosswalk was defined as implying that the pedestrian could just walk out. But I would so much rather see an education campaign to help pedestrians remember that “look both ways” applies to both 6-year olds AND adults, and an education campaign to help drivers remember that pedestrian right-of-way is law. It just makes me sad to see.

Don’t worry: when I see raised up F250s with macho guys with tiny “assets” I don’t tend to step out in front of them. I have been known to kick in rear quarter panels, however.

Transit lanes for Rainier, please!

… which would make it much harder for the teens to drag-race.

yes I don’t understand the usage of the term ‘jaywalking’ if crossing happens at an intersection – its completely legal to cross at any intersection unless there is signage saying otherwise. Crosswalks are just safer legal places to cross, not the only legal place to.

I beleive that is the charge in the Pike Place collision- vehicular assault. It is a charge and not a conviction, but calling it an “accident” starts to sound like exoneration before the facts are all counted.

I would like to see bike fatalities on the same map. I know the engineering and behavior problems are different, but I think the pattern could also reveal problem areas where cars are so dominant that the drivers don’t look for anything else.

Too bad all these comments are based on faulty facts quoted in the story. There are no more deaths on Rainier than several other ares of the City.