Portland vs. Seattle

I have a great friend from college (’82) that lives there and who I visit quite a lot. One thing that Portland does well is keep its low density neighborhoods free of high density condos. This allows traffic to be spread out more evenly and provides the safe bicycle routes of which you speak. Suburbs expanded greatly during the 90s, into Beaverton and other high tech areas, and they didn’t seem to be bounded by GMA. Also, Portland has a rich network of concentric highways, by-passes and interstates that allow freely flowing car traffic to stay off the local roads for driving even a few miles.

Overall, Portland has more rational planning and less ideology bottlenecks than Seattle.

Portland also provides cheap customer parking garages downtown and in its neighborhoods. Its parking meters are much cheaper than Seattle.

Portland also provides cheap customer parking garages downtown and in its neighborhoods. Its parking meters are much cheaper than Seattle.

Portland? I’d say Honolulu is more envied.

Dense, walkable, urban, international; great bus system; very diverse; and btw

a kinda nice “waterfront” that you *actually* can go wading in……

No mention of the Street Food allowed in Portland?

No mention of the Street Food allowed in Portland?

They are also running an innovative Hydrogen fuel cell car pilot program with GM:

http://www.kitv.com/r/23524686/detail.html

Don’t be surprised to see more hydrogen fuel cell cars on Hawaii’s roads.

General Motors is rolling out up to 15 of its new hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in the 50th state as it prepares to commercially produce the cars in the next five years.

They are also running an innovative Hydrogen fuel cell car pilot program with GM:

http://www.kitv.com/r/23524686/detail.html

Don’t be surprised to see more hydrogen fuel cell cars on Hawaii’s roads.

General Motors is rolling out up to 15 of its new hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in the 50th state as it prepares to commercially produce the cars in the next five years.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology is a fraud perpetuated by automobile-dependency interests like GM. Plug-in hybrid vehicle technology offers the most benefits and advantages, followed by battery-only electric vehicles which have the same sort, but not as many drawbacks as hydrogen fuel cell. Why am I not surprised Bailo is a fuel cell fan?

Build the Honolulu light rail. The Oahu bus system will work better as it complements the light rail. Portland has the advantage over most US cities in land-use and development, which Oahu, like most US cities, has allowed to be car-oriented sprawl.

Just to balance out the PDX love-fest,
Haven’t you heard of PDX’s plan to put I-5 in a tunnel along the east side of the river? You think the DBT is expensive, think of that! Plus for all their transit focus, Seattle still has a greater percentage using it to get to work (17% vs. 13%). Seattle has a higher walkability index (ranked 6th nationally to PDX’s 10th), and more people walking to work than in PDX. PDX trumps SEA in biking, but is much flatter, and easier for many to bike. Note, Seattle’s 300-ft grid was modelled after New York City, and that hasn’t hurt pedestrian mobility too much there.

Pearl District is nice, but is severely lacking in support facilities for families (no schools, no community centers, etc..). It was developer driven and those don’t make money. Same concern for SLU, so we’ll see.

Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of positives about PDX, but lets not ignore what we have going on here in our backward gaze.

I have friends in PDX, and visit there for work, and for pleasure, and I would like it even better if people weren’t so smug/envious about it.

Both cities have great neighborhoods, lush parks and greenery, and progressive culture. Historically, Seattle has always been more ambitious (Denny re-grade anyone??), with Portland being more reserved.

Seattle has much better views of water and mountains, more waterfront access around the City, a greater downtown core, better transit through downtown (transit tunnel), ferries, working waterfront, Pike Place Market, Ballard Locks, Seattle Center, the ID. We also have a major univesity campus here in the City, the Burke Gilman trail.

Its always good to have a little envy to drive us to better ourselves, but I think the PDX-love/jealousy is getting a bit obsessive…

Portland also has 2x the park acreage as Seattle, where we wall off our public space and install expensive glass exhibits.

I am with you 100%, Dan, on the Portland-mooning-over, but it seems a bit disingenuous to hold up the Pearl District as a model for urban redevelopment. High quality I’ll grant you, but damn it’s expensive to buy a condo there, it makes Belltown look appealing. The buildings are beautiful and the public spaces are lovely and it’s great for walking and biking — but every time I visit there the extreme homogeneity of the area, everyone so white and well-heeled, gives me pause. Next time you’re there, count the number of stores selling high-end bath products. The Pearl District feels more like an enclave than a neighborhood.

Plus, who’s city council has pledged to be carbon neutral by 2030? Ok, it’s all words at this point, but that’s a huge commitment that I don’t hear Portland matching.

And yet when it comes to CO2 all of that is outweighed by the electricity generation method.

Pardon me while I don’t get to excited about bike boxes and various bureaucratic reorganizations and commissions. I am sure they are all very exciting to the few who take advantage or care, but I am not one of those.

I never understand how worked up people can get over the smallest things while ignoring those that matter. This is not one of those problems where acting locally will do much good unless by local you mean state or country wide.

A quick energy efficiency note: although Portland has more Energy Star buildings by number, we have 20.1 million square feet of energy star buildings compared to their 13.6 million. I’d say this is far more important than the number of buildings.

Yeah, but much of that has to do with how urban boundaries are drawn. Portland also has Forest Park which is a pretty massive piece of land and since Portland is about half the size of Seattle in terms of land area thats going to skew things.

King County for example has about 25,000 acres of parks while Multnomah County only has about 10,000.

I agree with a lot of this post and am a frequent sufferer of Portland Envy myself (of which your facts list certainly exacerbated), BUT:

The South Waterfront is a 90+ acre area roughly shaped as a rectangle.

Seattle’s Central Waterfront is more than 4 times smaller at 20 acres and is a long, skinny section of land, with a width barely reaching 50 meters.

Its simply not a fair comparison.

I think Portland has to be cooler because Seattle is prettier. Fair is fair.

There is only one cure for Portland envy. And we all know what it is.

I lived in Seattle for 9 years and have lived in Portland for 1 year. I would never have left Seattle if it weren’t for my husband’s job, but here I am in the city Seattle claims to envy.

There are lots of things to be happy about in Portland. This city has an excellent growth – management plan, and walkability and bikability are superb. There are a lot of public transportation options and it’s very family oriented here, largely because of the family- friendly activities available here and the low cost of living. The restaurants here are superb, and are much more affordable than Seattle.

The downside? There are lots. This place is so white that I practically high-five any person of color who passes by me in the street (which happens once a week). The communities of color out here are completely segregated, and the lack of diversity here is just disturbing.

The downtown core needs to be revitalized (ever gone on the weekend? Compared to Seattle, it’s dead). The Pearl is nice, but its ritzy and unaffordable and not nearly as vibrant as folks make it out to be.

Seattle is HEADS AND SHOULDERS above Portland when it comes to arts and culture, and I miss Seattle terribly because of that. The Olympic Sculpture Park, African American Museum, Wing Luke, Seattle Center… NOTHING like this exists in Portland, not at that scale or diversity. Music, theater, all the stuff folks take for granted in Seattle does not exist at the same level in Portland (yes, there is lots of indie stuff here but if you want to see a real SHOW, like Maxwell or Jill Scott or something, you better trek up to Seattle). While Portland has the Trailblazers, Seattle has the Seahawks and the Mariners AND the Sounders. Meanwhile Portland just lost it’s minor league baseball team. Please trust me, there is much more to DO in Seattle than in Portland.

How would I boil it down? Seattle is a city. Portland is a big town. I’m glad I spent my 20′s in Seattle. Now that I am in my 30′s and starting a family, Portland is a nice, affordable, quiet place to settle

Seattle has not had “more of an extractive economy” than Portland. Portland was the original extractive hub in the northwest as a fur trading center and base for Hudson’s Bay company long before there was a twinkle in the Denny party’s eyes. And that trend continued with lumber and fishing barons denuding the mountains and plundering the Columbia River. Oregon’s economy is in the tank worse the ours today because of its heavier reliance on forest products, which are lagging due to the housing market collapse.

Having said all that, I put part of the blame on cultural development. Having race-horse corporate success stories like Boeing and later Msoft has had an unintended consequence of stifling innovation within governing circles. For years, there was no expert like a Boeing engineer to solve any problem that came along, sort of like a father-knows-best malaise. That’s been followed in the contemporary period by the unquestion worship of the Microsoft millionaire as the paragon of civic standards in these parts.

Well, although Portland has much to commend it, seriously Portland just about equals Seattle. Almost exactly.

A more interesting comparison — rather than two Northwest coastal urbopolises — would be Seattle versus Tri-Cities. I recently visited Tri-Cities and if you want to see a town that has a real future, Richland wins hands down. The bicycling facilities are superb. And they are there now — not through some pie in the sky billion dollar “redevelopment”. Houses are affordable. The plan is low density, with lots of room to spread out and highways that already have good capacity. Although there are the usual restrictions from the river, there are many bridges and each triangle can spread across flatland in any direction.

I’m voting on Tri-Cities as being the next “Seattle”.

You said it…Portland is a town, Seattle is a city.

Not an equal comparison at all.

When ever I visit Portland, I often wonder where people work. And how all of those hip and cool small businesses stay in business. What’s the economic base? And how deep is it?

It will be interesting to watch Portland’s progression as the population ages.

How can anyone say that Seattle is “blessed with carbon free hydro power” when making a comparison with Portland, home of BPA, the nations premier dam owner? Surely you are not telling me PG&E has a coal burning power plant, are you?

And then there is that fancy suburb, Lake Oswego, named by some as Lake Nonegro. It has a low crime rate.

As for a lovely Columbia riverfront walk, how many Seattle folks have walked from Madrona down Lake Washington to Renton? How many miles it that, did you say?

Just asking.

Seattle is cooler than Portland.

I lived in Portland for 2 years before realizing it was not even really a City.
Portland is a town and I wanted to live in a city. Sure, it has some cool things about it and some neat statistics to throw around. There are best practices we can look to, no argument. But I assure you they do the same looking at how Seattle is able to pull off things they can’t.

Note: Oregon also has BPA so the fact that Portland is not as good as Seattle on GHG’s can’t be related to them not being party to abundant (salmon killing but ‘clean’) hydropower.

Seattle enjoys more natural beauty – Being surrounded by the Sound and mountains in all directions is more beautiful then that dirty river that cuts through the town.

Cooler Neighborhoods – We have way more going on in terms of fully articulated and authentic neighborhoods. Portland only has a few (Hawthorne, Pearl, 23rd, etc).

Different attitudes – Portlanders are more hippie & self sufficiency in their spirit but on the other side of that coin it translates into a slacker, moochy stoner mentality. Seattleites are more entrepreneurial and have more ambition. Make whatever judgments based on your own preferences but I prefer Seattle’s ambition + intellect + collectivism attitude.

Bottom line is it is an easy move. But I can guess one reason you might have moved here is that jobs are more abundant.

Portland is not seriously considering putting I-5 in a tunnel along the eastbank of the Willamette. It is more likely that stretch of I-5 will be decommissioned one day, and the traffic redirected to I-405 on the westside of town. I-405 would be redesignated I-5. The eastbank freeway would be scaled down to accommodate access to I-84 East.

Seattle’s hilly downtown requires more transit service and use there. Seattle transit emphasis on suburban commuters may achieve a good percentage of riders into downtown, but it does little for getting around city center.

Portland’s MAX will eventually radiate from downtown in 5 directions (currently 3 directions). A MAX tunnel is way down on the list of expansion. The old school transit advocates want it, but New Urbanists are winning the argument for better land-use with surface MAX and streetcar lines.

Plans are in place for an elementary school facility facing the northernmost 2.5 acre park planned for the Pearl District.

THANK YOU!!! I am so tired of the “Portland is so much better than Seattle” controversy. I grew up in Seattle and lived in Portland during college for 4 years and have been back to visit a lot. And trust me, at the time (late 90s) Portland was most decidedly not “better” than Seattle on numerous counts. Recently, SOME things are better, sure, but for me it really comes down to Portland operates a bit more like a smaller city than we do, and is more encouraging for creatives just starting out, with cheaper rents and less barrier for entry. On the plus here, I think our neighborhoods are more diverse, there is more vibrancy on the streets here (there are a lot of streets that feel very eerily desolate in Portland, I’ve always thought) and I’m sorry but our scenery is much more beautiful here. And if you have paid attention to THEIR crazy Mayor in PDX . . . I’m tired of Seattlites assuming Portland is all that. Both cities have their flaws, but both are also two of the nicest cities to live in overall – so let’s just be glad not only that we live here and we have cool neighbors (Vancouver BC and Portland) we can learn some things from to both our North and South. Lucky all of us!

PGE operates the coal-fired Boardman Plant, roughly 40% of Portland’s electricity supply. Portland’s minority population rate is African-American 6%, Asian 6%, Hispanic 6%.

Claudia, you forgot to mention that Portland has better weather, proximity to the the ocean AND ski mountains (both within an hour) and better fishing. It boils down to a higher quality of life. Although culture is lacking sure enough.

Thanks for the data. I recall they once ran the Trojan nuclear plant, too.

Actually, transportation is the largest share of Seattle’s emissions.

The state of Washington consumes the vast majority of the power generated in the Columbia-Snake system, about 70%. BPA simply markets the power generated by the Corps of Engineers and Bureau of Reclamation, and the bulk of its customers are county-level public utility districts in WA chartered by state law. Oregon has no comparable law at the state level. The state is served therefoef mainly by private utilities, with notable exceptions in Eugene and Tillamook, where public utilities were set up at the local level.

http://www.wpuda.org/index.cfm

Portland’s skyline is not as picturesque as ours.

Everything Mrs. Y said.

oh, do you have a link for that?
where is the proposed honolulu light rail supposed to go? how much is it going to cost?

Certainly we’re no. 1 in pledging, also in celebrating diversity and our own greenness.

$1.60, but that is because they are liberals who don’t want to make everything be dictated by the market.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2010/09/28/2013021098.pdf

So, is there any city that Seattleites think is cooler than or more environmental than … Seattle?

http://www.honolulutransit.org/ It’ll go from Kapolei to the Airport to Downtown to Ala Moana Center, and will cost $5.5b for the full 20 miles.

Cost is no consideration, never was, never will be, except to those who think more about money than about a future.

No Portland envy here, had enough of that small town hippier-than-thou whitebread attitude.

Also, Mike McGinn = Tom Potter.

Yeah it’s interesting, outside of the greater Downtown Portland area there are few really dense neighborhoods, while Seattle is full of them. That probably drives Seattle’s higher transit use more than anything else.

The Pearl District offered buyers a 10 year exemption from property taxes – hence the white and well-heeled.

Are the number of bicyclists seriously the only thing that make a city for you people?

The only thing vexing about your Portland question is why you didn’t just stay in Portland, or why you didn’t just move back, if you liked it so much.

Seattle is about 70% denser than Portland, as much of Portland is very spread out. Downtown and the Pearl District and Northwest are all great, dense neighborhoods in Portland, but outside of that, there are relatively few little dense neighborhoods like there are all over the city of Seattle. As I said above, this probably contributes to the much higher use of transit in Seattle, despite Portland’s light rail.

It’s funny that you mention Portland as a better example of what to do with the waterfront because they’re developing it and we’re not, because they aren’t developing the very edge of the river. In the South Waterfront district specifically, they are currently working on the design for a long linear park between the waters edge and development that looks like it’s about a hundred feet wide, and they have a large park a couple blocks in in the center of the new neighborhood. Also, they demolished the freeway along the west bank of the the Willamette to build a very successful urban park much like what we may get along our Waterfront.

I went to college and lived in Arcata, CA for most of the Aughts. When I finally got sick of living in that wonderful but tiny and isolated town, I decided to move to Seattle. Of my friends who also left town, 95% moved to Portland. I can count on one hand the ones that moved to Seattle. All my friends who live in what I call “Little Arcata” are poor and on food stamps, etc., but I instantly got a decent paying job in Seattle and am now making twice what I made in Arcata.

I guess I wrote this in support of the idea that Portland is a big town more than it is a small city.

I like visiting Portland, but I could never imagine living there. It feels like Young Adult Disneyland to me. Really, the only thing I envy of Portland is that all my old friends live there and I love taking the trains around town.

right wing ignorance: “My country love it or leave it!”
Liberal intolerance: “why didn’t you just stay there or move back if you like it over there so much?”

It reminds me of that old joke. The joke goes like this:

“Shut up,” I explained.

Did not know this, Lisa — thank you.

“There are so many areas in which Portland is a step ahead of Seattle it’s hard to keep track of them all.”

And there’s one area–the criteria par excellance or urbanism–where Portland is way, way behind Seattle: density.

No.

I wonder about how one gets density figures?

City lines are often historical legacies, and have little bearing on the true urban area. MSA’s on the other hand are too large and include the entire county, not just urban areas, which in the case of the Seattle-Tacoma-Everett MSA means you got alot of uninhabited mountains, lakes, forests and Sound in King, Pierce, and Snohomish county lines.

How do you ensure you’re getting and apples to apples comparison?

Seattle would do this in the Rainier Valley if they want it revitalized!

Wasn’t Erica complaining that Portland is too white…you know, compared with whitopia here in Seattle?

Is it any coincidence ‘progressive’ cities are filled with predominantly college educated white people?

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001110-the-white-city

Great point!

And why, then, does not Seattle rezone portions of Single Family zoning along Lake WA, to provide MORE of us the privilege of strolling and co – mingling along its’ gorgeous, sinuous Eastern Shore?

WHY? Is it because people with money have houses along our waterfront, and some of these even own right up to, and INTO the water itself?

Seattle saves the goodies for the elite. Does not allow UPZONING and cool citizen activity where the beauty is. Unfortunate.

Sorry, P’s weather is ten degrees hotter in summers, and cooler in winters, with more cloud cover. If you think that is better, you are of course welcome to your opinion.

(Puget Sound and Lake Washington help maintain constant temps over the year up North here . . . very beneficial to our climate.)

Arguably, our weird geography drives our high transit use.

I don’t often fall into Portland envy. They have a few good small-scale programs Seattle could try to emulate. But if you want ideas for true urban sustainability, look north to Vancouver.

Sometimes we admit Copenhagen.

Sam Adams is coming to town? Lock up your interns…

Dear Dan:

Please move back.

Sincerely,
Seattle.

C’mon, Matt. Don’t let facts get in the way of a Bertolet rant. He certainly doesn’t.

Portland is a relatively dull river city that could be compared to Spokane.

Seattle is a coastal city with relatively amazing diversity and economic dynamism Portland can’t even dream of.

Dan can keep making lists all he wants, but most objective comparisons indicate that Seattle is a far greener city than Portland too.

Ah, the good old baseless attack. Stop wasting my time, troll.

The Portland/Multnomah Climate Action Plan puts them waaaaay ahead of Seattle on this one. Read it and ask why we aren’t on board?

The Portland/Multnomah Climate Action Plan puts them waaaaay ahead of Seattle on this one. Read it and ask why we aren’t on board?

Hmmm very Scandi bias it seems…..

why not LA NY Mexico City, they all have less carbon output per capita.

How about Brisbane, Queensland, OZ, a city that has a beautiful freeway leading to the south towards the Gold Coast et al. and comes with a parallel, entirely seperate 2-lane freeway dedicated to only buses. The buses load (hold your breath) in a “bus tunnel”. Sound familiar? The bus stations are a glory to behold.

I asked why they did not go for light rail. Answer: cheaper, faster, and needs only one bus maintenance facility.

Then there is the viaduct along the river. I attended a farmers market located in its shade. Do they plan to take it down? No.

The bus I rode on to the Gold Coast was – you guessed it – a Scandi bus (with wheel chair access, too).

The bus I rode on to the Gold Coast was – you guessed it – a Scandi bus (with wheel chair access, too).

Well, it certainly looks far more detailed than Seattle’s plan. But the goal is 40% below 1990 levels by 2030 and 80% below 1990 levels by 2050. That’s nowhere near as agressive as completely carbon zero by 2030.

I’ve really been enjoying this dialogue about Portland/Seattle envy. I’ve spent plenty of time in both, but live in Boise. I often thought I’d want to live in either of these cities if I moved to a bigger place, but the annual precip and my love of warm, dryer climate with great whitewater, skiing, and biking out my door trumped ever moving. No, Boise doesn’t have mass transit, we don’t have local option tax authority, no green roofs I can think of, no wind power on our tallest buildings (though we have pregrine falcons downtown so we don’t want turbines killing them) and we do have better views of the mountains than Portland. We have a great mayor and city council for a change. But it’s tough to be a progressive new urbanist in Idaho. So keep moving forward, Portland and Seattle. And I’ll keep visiting. If climate change wields its way with you and you get dryer, I’ll think about moving.

Just a correction:

Portland has significantly more land area than Seattle. That’s why it’s population density is slightly more than half of Seattle even though its population (not metro area) is only a bit less.

There’s a lot of truth to this. Maybe that’s why I like Seward Park, Greenlake, and Olympic Sculpture Park/Myrtle Edwards Park so much.

You are right, there is a typo there. Had the cities backwards.

No, it’s not a coincidence. As the Prop 8 vote to ban gay marriage in California demonstrated, urban, highly educated Anglo whites (and Asians!) tend to be more progressive on social issues than blacks or Hispanics.

Hahahaha. Wow. Portland is better than Seattle because of its urban planning? Well, that doesn’t really translate to anyone but bicycle riders who live in the Pearl or just over the bridges on the East side. Also, have you ever been to Gresham? Hillsboro? Outside of Portland proper, it’s all sprawl and gridlock.

Transit, they have us beat; light rail is awesome. Biking, I guess they got us beat. Housing prices are much more affordable. Cost of living is lower. They have a much, much better and more stable tax structure. They have great public schools. These are things people look for when they move somewhere.

Oregon also has a tough time with employment. Once they get the jobs situation squared away, they’ll be on top.

As it stands, you sound like a moron. People do not move to cities because of the number of LEED certified buildings. Get a fucking clue.

This is from an Oregonian in Seattle who has a job, because he moved out of Oregon.

Portland has a huge handicap here, since most of its electricity is produced by coal/natural gas fired power plants. Conversely over 90% of Seattle’s electricity comes from hydroelectric sources. Both cities suffer from urban pollution from auto & industry.

We have big time Copenhagen envy!

Have you lived in Spokane or spent an extended amount of time there? I don’t think so or you wouldn’t compare Portland to it. Spokane is a working class town trying to masquerade as a white color town. It has no transit to speak of and it’s only waterfront amenity if from the 1976 Worlds Fair. Aside from some portions of the South Hill I don’t think Spokane has much going for it at all, actually.

the most consistent supporters of programs for jobs and health care are minorities. urgan highly educated anglo whites (and Asians!) split on things like tax cuts for the rich, the income tax; many of them are NOT progressive on those issues at all. In fact, many are not so progressive on environmental issues either. Here in Seattle we have at ton of urban highly educated Anglo whites (and Asians!) who support a DBT and $300 million for mercer remodel while we’re cutting buses and delaying ST 2.0. If your definition of progressive is recycling, gay rights, kpet goats, some bike trails then yes Minneapolis and Portland and Seattle and Austin are the most progressive in the nation. If your definition of progressive is consistent support for JOBS programs, income tax, redistribution, and single payer, then I’d say the most progressive areas in the nation are Harlem, Oakland and Washington DC adn the members of the Black Political Caucus. While it’s sad that too many African Americans aren’t favoring gay rights or the environment, really, the only solid basis for uniting all progressives on a true “progressivism” basis is centering it on core economic and social justice issues. A progressive movement has to include both that AND gay rights abortion and enviro issues, of course; and the overlap in areas like green technology is where we need to go. But I’d tend to disagree with the notion that educated whites and Asians are in general the vanguard of the progressives movement…you’re kinda leaving out (a) workers and (b) African Americans and Latinos.

Whole Foods progressivism isn’t real progressivism.

Psst . . . I think you meant white COLLAR – I hope . . .

only if you want to try to turn the Valley into the Pearl – which would be a tragedy.

“Whole Foods progressivism isn’t real progressivism.”

But it sure is a whole lot safer and more pleasant to live around.

Why would that be a tragedy? I like the Pearl District. I have to say I have enjoyed my visits there more than to the Rainier Valley.

Bingo! This is why I prefer to be surrounded by urban white liberals. I get higher property values, nicer neighborhoods, better farmer’s markets, better heirloom tomatoes without the gunfire. Plus these morons don’t vote my taxes up as much. My white liberal green neighbors do more to protect my wealth and investments than any right wingers.

In my mind, being progressive means more than voting for YOUR OWN economic interest. You’ve essentially defined progressivism as advocating for policies that benefit one’s own interests, and ignore the importance of advocating for the interests of other groups subject to irrational discrimination, or for the interests of the common good. What is so progressive about lower income folks advocating for more wealth distribution from others to them, while ignoring the discrimination against gays? That is a totally self-interested move. Now you can make a good case for it being for the common good as well, but tell me what these so-called “progressive” communities in Harlem, Oakland, and DC fight for that doesn’t directly benefit THEIR communities?

Furthermore, what polls have shown that non-whites (and Asians!) oppose the DBT or supported ST 2 in significantly greater numbers?

Furthermore, Seattle voters overwhelmingly supported the Housing Levy. For most voters of the levy, that was the manifestation of a willingness to be taxed to build housing for lower income folks who will likely use more services than they will provide tax revenue for. That is voting against your economic interest because you think it is for the common good or the right thing to do. That, to me, is progressive, and more admirable than a person voting to tax others to provide a benefit to herself.

Furthermore, Seattle voters overwhelmingly supported the Housing Levy. For most voters of the levy, that was the manifestation of a willingness to be taxed to build housing for lower income folks who will likely use more services than they will provide tax revenue for. That is voting against your economic interest because you think it is for the common good or the right thing to do. That, to me, is progressive, and more admirable than a person voting to tax others to provide a benefit to herself.

“Cool” isn’t about what one city has over the other, everyone! “Cool” is about how the people in the city feel. It’s simply why Portland is cool and Seattle is not. People in Portland are who they are, they’re happy with that, and they aren’t looking for validation or approval from anyone. They’re happy with themselves.

Seattle people, on the other hand, are so worried about “best” – I am SICK of that word plastered on the cover of every “Seattle” magazine and Seattle Times! They clearly feel small, and so they’re always comparing themselves to others and trying to prove why they’re just as good or better. It’s everywhere you turn, in all the literature, and it’s what spawned this article!

I’ve lived in Seattle for 8 years, and after the first couple-year honeymoon, I was perplexed with the people. I couldn’t understand the sense of powerlessness. I couldn’t understand the feelings of futility, the pessimism. Oh, there’s a lot to love about Seattle. I just wish the natives could figure out they have one of the most exquisite places in the US and revel in that and stop trying to compare themselves to other cities. Seattle is marvelous, unique, very special. I wish the natives would stop feeling they’ve got something to be ashamed of and realize they have something no one else has and be proud of that and not care what anyone else thinks.

Portland might be cool, but Seattle is far more sophisticated, and like “cool,” “sophistication” is something you either have or you don’t. And for those who want to bash me and my opinion, be careful – because the more vitriolic, the more defensive the post, the more you embody exactly what I’m talking about above, and it ain’t the sophistication.

This is true. Of the Big 3 Northwest cities, Portland is undoubtedly most comfortable in its own skin. Seattle and Vancouver, BC have delusions of grandeur, and rather than just accept that they are pleasant, medium-sized cities, they often aspire to be seen as “world class.” Of course, they are not remotely on par with, and never will be, New York, London or Tokyo, but maybe there’s something to be said for striving. But still, it does come off as a little desperate when what they have is pretty great in its own way.

Plus they have Voodoo Doughnuts and other assorted food porn…

In one of the most widely used ‘World Cities’ rankings, Seattle and Vancouver are Gamma + and Portland Gamma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Cities

And no one’s saying “love it or leave it”. This is more about Dan wanting to live in a city like Portland. If Dan Bertolet wants to live in Portland so much, maybe instead of trying to turn this city into Seattle’s smaller, more economically depressed step-sister, he should just move back there and live a happy life. Occam’s Razor.

It’s not most, it’s 40% – but that’s a lot. Portland is pretty well situated for maximizing wind energy, but that’s going to take time and well, it’s wind so it’s got the same problems as every. Coal is not a source you can ramp up or lower depending on need or wind activity – so, so far, more wind just means fewer turbines running at Bonneville some of the time.

But energy efficiency, smart grids, evening out peaks and troughs and using all the things we know about storing energy could make the Boardman plant irrelevant. Portland doesn’t get a pass on that one

Dude. King County is almost 4 times the size of Multnomah. Having a little more than double the park acres is a count against it.

But the Rainier Valley is “authentic” or “vibrant” or something…What may look like a bunch of public housing, gas stations and fly-by-night restaurants to you is actually world-class. Take my word for it.

They’re both great towns, and compliment each other well. Plus, we are fortunate to have a wonderful rail service to take us between them.

I should say however, that in the last twenty years or so Seattle has filled up with some of the most dreadful people, with much more money than sense, who have wreaked havoc on what used to be a very nice city. That’s good for kitchen contractors and their ilk, but points out that we are not taxing rich people at the level they should be taxed.

You forgot to mention Portland has both better beer and better restaurants. By quite a bit. But I love Seattle too. Headed up there for a weekend soon.

Stepping into Portland is like stepping 20 years back in time. This is still a working class town, where people focus on family, pets, and nestling. Culturally it’s exceedingly quiet and if you’re looking for glitz, glamor, GOOD art, beautiful people, and well dressed citizens, Portland WILL NOT be for you. Yes, there’s some pretty good food, but still doesn’t compare to Seattle. Portland is beautiful, and the little nooks and neighborhoods charming, but still doesn’t offer the geographical splendor that surrounds Seattle. The very fact that the really awful Voodoo Donuts is one of the top 3 tourist attractions in Portland says A LOT. Also, Portland has one of the worst economies in the U.S. In terms of cool, Portland is not cool AT ALL and it cracks me that people consider it to be so. It’s very backwards, the worst dressed city I’ve ever lived in. Portland is not a small Seattle, it’s a large Corvallis. Having said that, Portland offers a ton for the right demographic, is really pretty, easy, really nice people.

Portland is closer to California so it gets more liberal progressive influences than Seattle does which is still in the boonies to some extent.

A large Corvallis? LOL Put down the crack pipe.