Maps Show Racial Makeup of Major Cities, Including Seattle

Yeah, white people are evil. I’m totally bummed I’m surrounded by white devils. It is a cool project (and interesting images) but I’m amused that Erica is disappointed to learn that she’s surrounded by people with a certain skin color.

These maps would be useful, if they actually had some detail in them. For example, one of the highlights is the “Kent-Renton industrial area” — otherwise known as a lot of warehouses. It looks white because there’s no people there at all…it’s all commercial.

I wanted to focus on Kent East Hill (which has — and Kent has in general — a larger proportion of African-Americans than Seattle), but no can do.

Provocative. But needs work.

Why the heck would it bum you out? This is no different than a white person saying they are bummed out by being surrounded by people of color. Both are racist statements.

After living in Kent for some many years, especially East Hill which has groups from every continent, I get scared going to places like Green Lake. Everyone there is so white, I think that I’m going to get busted for driving around…until I realize, hey, I’m white too.

When was the last time you went to Green Lake? I don’t know about you, but when I go jogging there I see people of all different races, old people, children, dogs, bikers, joggers, roller bladers, etc. and hear many languages spoken there as well. The residential areas may not be quite as diverse there, but the park itself draws all kinds of people.

NOTE to ECB:

Hispanics are not a racial group. Stop reifying this ridiculous notion that Hispanics are a race. They are no more a race than Francophones or Anglophones. You’ll notice that Eric Fischer correctly describes his maps as depicting “race and ETHNICITY.”

For my money, Detroit takes the cake as least diverse and most segregated:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982034696/in/set-72157624812674967/

Hi there. Green Lake is super white, there are few blacks at all. A few more latinos and some asians, for sure, but on the whole it’s like 80- 90% white every time. BTW another way of “seeing” the racial makeup of seattle is to go to other cities and “see” the people there….you’ll no longer be of the view that Green Lake is super diverse or the view that Seattle is anything but super white.

You can “hear” the diversity in other places, too. Other big cities have 4 or 5 black radio stations, in seattle we got none. We only have one latino station, too.

San Jose seems the most integrated among major cities, albeit with few black people. The East Side pretty much looks like San Jose, but with fewer Asians and Hispanics. I think it demonstrates that upper income people tend to mix well with other socioeconomic peers, regardless of race, while racial disparities are most profound among lower income populations.

And though Seattle does have more white people than most major cities, it is among the least segregated of major cities. There are really no areas devoid of white people, just areas where whites mix with blacks (Central District) and Asians (U-District) and Asians and Hispanics and blacks (South East Seattle). Most major cities can’t say that.

what no map for idaho or vermont?

I disagree. I’m tempted to do a tally next time I go. The mix doesn’t seem much less diverse than Seward Park in my experience.

Furthermore, black does not equal diverse. African-Americans are but one ethnicity, and there are plenty of places that are diverse despite having few blacks, e.g. Honolulu, San Jose, Vancouver, BC.

LOL, as someone who grew up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmore,_Alabama
Reading a Kent v Seattle battle over diversity is like watching this:
http://www.easyflashgames.com/games/images/070313_SM1082~Cripple-Fight-Posters.jpg

Way to attempt to create some more white guilt

Right on @Some Dude, I hate white people too! I hope that Erica isn’t disappointed when she finds out that many Latinos are white too, but I guess the Latinos that are also black will be a double win for her.

FYI, Erica and the Gawker: Latino/Hispanic is not a race.

White people and industrial buildings all look the same to Eric and the Gawker.

I stand corrected on my lame attempt to be witty, White is pink.

Perhaps you should stop reifying the ridiculous notion that “race” means anything precise in the first place.

It’s a competition? I hadn’t noticed.

Most of Seattle is mostly white. That’s why there’s whites everywhere. There aren’t enough minorities to create the more segregated housing patterns you see in other cities. But I knew about 5 white seattleites living in NYC and there wasn’t a single one of them that chose to live in a minority neighborhood….

Most of Seattle is mostly white. That’s why there’s whites everywhere. There aren’t enough minorities to create the more segregated housing patterns you see in other cities. But I knew about 5 white seattleites living in NYC and there wasn’t a single one of them that chose to live in a minority neighborhood….

Good grief! You people are so defensive. There’s no white guilt or racial superiority of any kind implied here by either Fischer or ECB. The point raised by these maps viewed as a group is that most metropolitan areas are still amazingly segregated 30-40 years after the elimination of racist housing laws, restrictive covenants and redlining. On top of that, Seattle, along with most of the Mountain West cities profiled in these maps, is still not very diverse compared to metro areas in the rest of the country. Again, this is not a judgment on one race’s superiority over another but about lack of diversity and the lingering effects of racist housing policies. Lack of diversity can create economic and cultural stagnation, although with the Seattle area becoming more, not less diverse, that’s probably less of a long-term problem for the region as a whole. However, the lingering effects of racist housing policies are a big deal. This is not just a black and white issue. Just about everyone except whites of Northern European descent were kept away from neighborhoods north of the Ship Canal up through the early-60s, even later due to redlining by financial institutions. The legislature, the business community and statewide voters were fighting fair housing laws in this state right up until the mid-60s when the federal government passed fair housing laws and LBJ started cracking down on the banks. This is not a good legacy for this state or region. I don’t know what we can do about it now other than strictly enforce our housing laws while making sure we fund/encourage/require affordable housing in all areas targeted for growth under GMA.

Good grief! You people are so defensive. There’s no white guilt or racial superiority of any kind implied here by either Fischer or ECB. The point raised by these maps viewed as a group is that most metropolitan areas are still amazingly segregated 30-40 years after the elimination of racist housing laws, restrictive covenants and redlining. On top of that, Seattle, along with most of the Mountain West cities profiled in these maps, is still not very diverse compared to metro areas in the rest of the country. Again, this is not a judgment on one race’s superiority over another but about lack of diversity and the lingering effects of racist housing policies. Lack of diversity can create economic and cultural stagnation, although with the Seattle area becoming more, not less diverse, that’s probably less of a long-term problem for the region as a whole. However, the lingering effects of racist housing policies are a big deal. This is not just a black and white issue. Just about everyone except whites of Northern European descent were kept away from neighborhoods north of the Ship Canal up through the early-60s, even later due to redlining by financial institutions. The legislature, the business community and statewide voters were fighting fair housing laws in this state right up until the mid-60s when the federal government passed fair housing laws and LBJ started cracking down on the banks. This is not a good legacy for this state or region. I don’t know what we can do about it now other than strictly enforce our housing laws while making sure we fund/encourage/require affordable housing in all areas targeted for growth under GMA.

Reading about Atmore, why did you ever leave?

…to me it sounds like a paradise!

For every 100 females there were 79.1 males.

For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 74.7 males.

All I know is when I walk around Kent East Hill, it feels more like Queens, New York where I grew up.

The thing I actually like best about the maps is that since there is one dot for each 10 people, they show density as well as (census self-reported) “racial makeup”. So just a glance tells you that the Ranier Valley is both quite diverse and simply has more people per area than outlying areas. In fact nearly all of Seattle (and some spots like downtown Kirkland) is redder than the rest of the map, though clearly it’s the urban centers that are the most dense.

I think this project is fascinating, and will be even more interesting once 2010 census data comes out, so that we can perhaps draw assumptions about migrations of people from places like the CD to south KC. I also find the race and ethnicity distinction interesting and a bit disturbing. It is commonly understood (and still this way on census forms) that Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a race. So, many of these maps may be flawed because they are in effect comparing apples and oranges. For example, many folks in NYC are from the Dominican Republic and identify as both Black and Hispanic, especially in Manhattan north of Harlem and the south Bronx. On this map of NYC you see this area as primarily blue, when it may be more complex than this. I am not saying that NYC still isn’t racially segregated, having lived there and worked in the outer boroughs for 5 years I know this, just look at Brownsville in Brooklyn, which is almost exclusively African-American, also because of redlining and previously racist housing policies. I guess I am just saying that we should strive for a more honest depiction of race, which includes folks who identify in a number of ways. This is why census data will be so interesting…

i think you must be really unfamiliar with the actual history of neighborhoods like the CD and Beacon Hill in Seattle, which were basically shaped by racist policies that were law through the Fair Housing Act in 1970, and still practiced long after. many neighborhoods still have these covenants on title, relics from a not so distant and disturbing past. here is a great short post on this in the CD:

http://www.centraldistrictnews.com/2010/07/22/cd-history-how-segregation-shaped-the-neighborhood

t chen, i think what you are experiencing at green lake is the fact that it is a tourist destination, so many people visit there to play. but the reality is that most people who live around greenlake are white. one reason this is different than seward park is redlining, which was practiced through the 70s in Seattle and basically did not allow many non-whites (including sometimes jews) to move north of the ship canal. i posted and interesting story about this on CD News below. check it out.

and btw, i also agree with you on the whole confusion of race and ethnicity that is pervasive in our culture now. my partner is mexican-american and caucasion. one is ethnicity and one is race.

and btw, i also agree with you on the whole confusion of race and ethnicity that is pervasive in our culture now. my partner is mexican-american and caucasion. one is ethnicity and one is race.

Unless of course it turns out black people like to live near other black people. Crazy idea I know.

Yea, but we have a very low murder rate so that’s good right?

Yea, but we have a very low murder rate so that’s good right?

Nothing more amusing than watching guilty white Seattleites kvetching about diversity…but how many are will to move down to Skyway to actually experience it?

No guilt up here in the Great White North, north of the ship canal in a mixed race household.

More reading:

The White City

http://www.newgeography.com/content/001110-the-white-city

Seems the whiter a city is, the more liberal it is…ie. we can love diversity because we haven’t been mugged yet.

What if it turns out black, Hispanic and Asians like to be around their own people too? Do you really think a 4th generation black family from the CD wants to live in Wallingford? I find the place too white and I am white!

There’s nothing wrong with people wanting to live near their own class, race and ethnic groups. It’s what makes us human but it doesn’t mean people are racist.

“There’s no white guilt or racial superiority of any kind implied here by either Fischer or ECB.”

PLease, ECB is apparently ‘bummed out’ because she thinks there’s too many white people in Seattle. Classic guilty white Seattle liberal….I’d laugh if there weren’t so race obsessed.

“Green Lake is super white, there are few blacks at all”

Why does ‘black = diverse’?

“Green Lake is super white, there are few blacks at all”

Why does ‘black = diverse’?

Apparently you’re suggesting that diversity = crime. That’s not necessarily born out by the evidence.

NYC is one of the most diverse cities on the planet, and its crime rate is one of the lowest of major US cities. Detroit is the least diverse big city and its crime rate is highest of major US cities.

Other examples of low crime/high diversity cities in North America include San Jose, Toronto, and Honolulu.

You can certainly find homogenous cities that are safe, too. North Dakota, New Hampshire, and Maine all have low crime rates, but you don’t have to live in a monoculture to be safe.

(Well-educated) whites in Seattle probably don’t want to move to Skyway for cultural reasons, among others. I guarantee they wouldn’t want to move to a exclusively white trailer park community either, again for cultural/socio-economic reasons.

For purposes of the US Census Bureau, it has a precise meaning. For purposes of college admissions, employment, lawsuits etc. it has a meaning. For purposes of genetics, “race” has a genetic basis, though it is certainly not unrelated to human categorization.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/facesofamerica/

I’m certainly critical of how the Census Bureau divides “races.” But these ccategories do have meaning in our world today. I suppose we could engage in deconstruction, and that might be philosophically gratifying, but I just want at a minimum for the information to be reported accurately here.

With the map shown, it simply tells us that Seattle hasn’t been totally alienated. This racial and ethnicity breakdown kinda means something though.

Well your friends aren’t like a significant number of Seattleites then. If you look at the map you’ll see that a not insignificant amount of whites live in areas where they are a minority (e.g. Central District, Southeast Seattle). Again Seattle is diverse enough for there to be segregation (~30% non-white), but there are no truly concentrated non-white areas. Less diverse cities like Detroit and Omaha have stark residential segregation.

I think it’s interesting that people are having the reaction that “Seattle is so much less diverse than NYC,” when my reaction was, “cool, Seattle is way less racially segregated than NYC!” Seriously, look at the maps! Are we really envious of those huge blue squares in Brooklyn that clearly show that housing discrimination is still the norm? Seattle is a pretty diverse city, and I think it’s great that we don’t really have “ghettoes” the way a lot of cities do.

You’re not alone. That was my reaction, too.

finally, a voice of reason

You’ll see more diversity in Bellevue than you will in oh-so-liberal Northside Seattle most days. Also, the Asian food in North Seattle sucks…you want decent Asian food you have to drive to Shoreline or Bellevue.

“Lack of diversity” to me is not a big deal; “lingering effects of racist housing policies” is a big deal to me. It’s nice to make this information available to help us avoid making the same mistakes as the past, but to somehow suggest that I should be “bummed out” that there isn’t more diversity is wrong.

“Affordable housing” is about income, not race (or ethnicity). Yes, because of past laws and practices, many minorities are low-income today. Let’s help poor people (no matter the race or ethnicity) and let people live where they want.

Also, diversity goes beyond just race/ethnicity. Are we going to socially engineer ourselves so that every neighborhood has the equally proportionate mix of black, white, Asian, Latino, Jew, Muslim, atheist, agnostic, liberal, conservative, politically agnostic, rich, poor, middle-class, rural, suburban, metro, urban, gay, straight, bi, male, female, other, tall, short, singles, married, shacked-up, partnered, blue-collar-workers, white-collar-worker, unemployed, pet-owners, with kids, without kids, red-heads, etc, etc, etc, plus not to mention all the sub-groups withing those mentioned groups?

actually I am very familiar. The two neighborhoods you mention are smallish and a small part of Seattle. Notice how I said Seattle is “mostly” white? That means “some” of it isn’t, and that would include the nonwhites in the two neighborhoods you mentioned. Yes, there was racism, yes there were and are covenants, none of that impeaches what I said, so not sure what the problemo is.

Seattle is mostly white. It’s far more white than DC NY Detroit Atlanta Chicago LA and most big cities in the USA. It’s kind of at or near the top of the list in terms of being white. As a result, it has white people all over Seattle; there simply aren’t enough minorities in seattle to create the kinds of segregated housing patterns we see in Detroit or the South Bronx or DC. Sorry, while we had lots of discrimination here in Seattle the Becon hill or CD neighborhoods today are nothing at all like the South Bronx or NE or SE DC. So, that whites are all over seattle says nothing about how un racist they are, which is my point, which actually supports your main point about there being racism and such, so regrets if it wasn’t clear.

@eldan: Let’s rid ourselves of this modern language and go back to grunts, cause words are useless in @eldan’s world.

I thought I got a pass by voting for Obama. Some good that did me cause I still feel guilty.

B/c chicks with no teeth and 3 kids aren’t my bag. Being from Kent I can see how’d you’d find that attractive.

Seriously though, did you check the income rates there? And shit’s only getting worse. My best friend got laid off from his school in Pensacola summer before last and snagged a job back at the old High School. Just 7 years earlier he had graduated Valedictorian. He lasted two weeks before he decided that even with the economy in the shitter, and a wife who was working on her PhD (not employed in otherwords) he’d rather roll the dice than step foot in that school again. He was throwing up every morning in the parking lot the kids were so bad (and he went to JC on a football scholarship as a lineman, not a small man).

Only good thing left in that town is my family and their friends. All my friends have left ALL OF THEM. Whenever I go back I spend maybe two nights there before heading to Mobile or Pensacola for the rest of the trip.

B/c chicks with no teeth and 3 kids aren’t my bag. Being from Kent I can see how’d you’d find that attractive.

Seriously though, did you check the income rates there? And shit’s only getting worse. My best friend got laid off from his school in Pensacola summer before last and snagged a job back at the old High School. Just 7 years earlier he had graduated Valedictorian. He lasted two weeks before he decided that even with the economy in the shitter, and a wife who was working on her PhD (not employed in otherwords) he’d rather roll the dice than step foot in that school again. He was throwing up every morning in the parking lot the kids were so bad (and he went to JC on a football scholarship as a lineman, not a small man).

Only good thing left in that town is my family and their friends. All my friends have left ALL OF THEM. Whenever I go back I spend maybe two nights there before heading to Mobile or Pensacola for the rest of the trip.

B/c chicks with no teeth and 3 kids aren’t my bag. Being from Kent I can see how’d you’d find that attractive.

Seriously though, did you check the income rates there? And shit’s only getting worse. My best friend got laid off from his school in Pensacola summer before last and snagged a job back at the old High School. Just 7 years earlier he had graduated Valedictorian. He lasted two weeks before he decided that even with the economy in the shitter, and a wife who was working on her PhD (not employed in otherwords) he’d rather roll the dice than step foot in that school again. He was throwing up every morning in the parking lot the kids were so bad (and he went to JC on a football scholarship as a lineman, not a small man).

Only good thing left in that town is my family and their friends. All my friends have left ALL OF THEM. Whenever I go back I spend maybe two nights there before heading to Mobile or Pensacola for the rest of the trip.

As an ignorant white dude my suggestion to fix this disparity is that everyone have lots and lots of multi-racial booty calls until the entire map is a nice mauve or puce.

Why is it that Europeans born in Latin America are classified as non-whites in the USA?
Why is it that blacks from Latin America are classified as Hispanic, but blacks born in the USA are not classified as Anglos?
Why is it that Amerindians from Latin America are called Latinos or Hispanics, but Amerindians in the USA are not called Anglos or Britanics?

Hispanics of European descent are not classified as non-whites officially, according to the Census Bureau. Those who have roots in Latin America or Spain are classified as “Hispanic,” an ethnic category, AND then asked to pick their “race.” About half choose white. Of course lumping all of Latin America together is somewhat preposterous as well, as there are dramatic cultural and socioeconomic differences between white Cubans who fled Castro, mixed race Puerto Ricans, mestizo Mexicans, white Spaniards and Argentinians, indigenous Bolivians etc.Now, you are on to something though, which is that in some segments of the popular consciousness, Hispanic is transforming into the perception of a “race.” That is why I promptly called out Publicola for incorrectly labeling this post “racial makeup of major cities.” Erica has still not corrected her title. This kind of sloppy reporting allows these misperceptions to linger.

Agreed. But the legacy of our previous redlining and housing covenants means that getting to truly universally good neighborhood schools for all is going to continue to be difficult. We underinvested for decades in certain neighborhoods.

WTF? Why would you go to Bellevue from the North End for Asian food? Oh, you’re *driving*. Never mind.

Why?

B/c for all our shortcomings Americans are pretty good about leaving people alone and letting them classify themselves. If someone that looks black to us wants to identify themselves as Hispanic, we let them. If someone wants to call themselves White, or Hispanic, or both we don’t really care.

Also as someone pointed out Hispanic is an ethnic identifier, not a racial one.

As I am a bad American and haven’t sent back The American Community Survey (Long Form Census) I got in the mail last week, I can quote from it: (the NOTE between questions 4 and 5) “Please answer BOTH Question 5 about Hispanic origin and Question 6 about race. For this survey Hispanic origins are not races.”

Because there’s better Asian food out there because there’s actual Asians living there and the Asians living out there tend to have money and want authentic food from their homelands. I don’t need to go to some Thai place in Fremont that is serving nothing but sugary, fish-sauce free food to white folk.

Maybe we should just be like France and stop counting Americans by their race?

Is that why France is deporting Gypsies right now (as in the Roma) or had race riots in the outer Paris suburbs a couple of summers ago?

Is that why France is deporting Gypsies right now (as in the Roma) or had race riots in the outer Paris suburbs a couple of summers ago?

But there are neighborhoods in Seattle that have virtually no black people, i.e., Wedgewood, Maple Leaf, Laurelhurst, and Windermere. But I believe the main factor in the lack of color in those areas is the high cost of real estate in those neighborhoods, plus they are overwhelmingly zoned for single family housing, so with few blacks in the city, fewer with the cashola to afford those neighborhoods.

Seattle doesn’t have many African Americans. This has been the case for a long time. No reason to be depressed about it (although, I do miss KYAC, but that’s another matter). The reasons are historic — we never had African slaves here, and we are a long way from the places that did. It gets more complicated than that of course. For example, our economic booms occurred at different times than other cities. We don’t have huge numbers of Irish, either (now that’s depressing).

As others have pointed out, we did have redlining. The interesting thing, though, is that Seattle’s “Ghetto” was never that run down. If you showed someone from back East our “slums” they would laugh “no, really, where are your slums”. The reasons for this are a complicated, but basically a combination of our civic leaders, especially in the schools and churches made sure that living in the Central Area was not too bad. Fifty years ago, it was rougher to live in Ballard, then in the C.D. It should also be noted, that the most inner city of our inner city high schools, Garfield, was an outstanding high school from an academic, athletic and musical standpoint long before White kids were ever bused there.

Back to the chart — I find it interesting. Because it focuses on only rough descriptions of race and ethnicity (again — where are the Irish?) it looks rather bland. If you look at the closeup picture (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/4981415821_b20d4f4306_o.png) though, you can see we are pretty mixed, even though you can see the effects of the redlining. With the 2010 data, you’ll probably see more of the effects of gentrification along with more “blue” up north (by Northgate and Lake City).

Damn man, it’s just maps showing data and these maps just add a visual to the known fact that Seattle is white. I personally wish that Seattle was more diverse. And yes, the fact that we’re not as white as Portland is a good thing. It’d be nice to see Seattle like the multicolored New York map above, not just the strip of color that we see in the Seattle map.

Yes, posting maps that correlate to actual data is “creating white guilt.” Why are you people so defensive about seeing that the city is freaking white bread?

Exactly! You said it much better than I could.

Your calm and patient responses to others using fact based reasoning is inspiring. I don’t always agree with you on everything, but I certainly respect the comments that you make. Reading your responses on PubliCola is a joy.

“Lack of diversity” is a big deal because monocultures tend to stagnate. People who aren’t like you psychographically and demographically can revitalize an area both socially and economically. Contrary to what we may prefer to believe, Seattle isn’t exactly brimming with fresh ideas. Nor are we host to a booming economy. In fact, I could have sworn we’ve seen are largest employers take major hits. Aside from Amazon, that is, which will only continue to do well if they can keep selling things as cheap as possible with extremely low overhead AND they don’t lose the faith of investors in the oh-so-fickle secondary markets. You’ll notice the cities where wealth is concentrated and that drive the national agenda are diverse, even if racially balkanized. They’re growing. If we want to spur long-term growth we need to introduce more diversity into this region so that we can have new people with different perspectives on the world drive that growth.

Diversity may go beyond race and ethnicity, but that does not change the fact this country has systematically relegated non-whites to the role of low-income earners by discriminating against them in hiring and educational opportunities. And don’t even get me started on how sexism and homophobia play themselves out in hiring and compensation. Trying to push these things aside is simply an act of moral cowardice. This country is yet to deal with this issue in a definitive or fair way. Everyone knows it. Dealing with poverty is dealing with race and that which deals with race will ultimately improve the economic and social lot of everyone regardless of their race, religion or creed.

Since the culture of this region clearly promotes a monoculture maybe we really should socially engineer the religious / political / ethnic / gender / sexual orientation / class / education level blend of our neighborhoods. Social engineering was the goal of Civil Rights legislation and the bus programs that were part of school desegregation efforts. Bombings, lynchings and ultimately white flight have defeated the best efforts of that, though. I guess the whites of the middle 20th Century didn’t think “lack of diversity” was a big deal, either.

Social engineering the exact end goal of all politics and laws. In light of that, it seems weird you would be opposed to it when you’re commenting on a political website. What do you think we’re trying to accomplish with all these laws but engineer the world we think is the best? Do you think we’re just passing laws, debating, taxing and blowing up other countries for fun?

I grew up in Atlanta. Would you all like to know why you are so glamored by the Idea of living with black people? BECAUSE YOU NEVER HAVE! All these left wing liberal cities have one thing in common: NO AFRICAN AMERICANS. Notice the direct correlation between being a predominately white city and low crime? There is a reason for that. Quit whining about diversity and be thankful your property values aren’t dropping like those in ATL.

I grew up in Atlanta. Would you all like to know why you are so glamored by the Idea of living with black people? BECAUSE YOU NEVER HAVE! All these left wing liberal cities have one thing in common: NO AFRICAN AMERICANS. Notice the direct correlation between being a predominately white city and low crime? There is a reason for that. Quit whining about diversity and be thankful your property values aren’t dropping like those in ATL.

No Black people in Seattle, huh?

Reeeeeaaaaalllllyyyyy?

Uh, didn’t read all the comments, but what about Native American populations? According to the Seattle city council meeting I attended, re: the shooting of John T Williams by a cop, they claim Seattle is actually 30% Native American!

the word gypsie is racist, stop using it the word is Roma.

they’re few and far between. I would venure to say there isn’t one black person on this thread.

” You’ll notice the cities where wealth is concentrated and that drive the national agenda are diverse”

First of all there’s diversity among white people. Hard to believe I know. Second cities like Tokyo, shanghai, Seoul are among the wealthiest in the world and over 90% racially homogenous.

Whatever the pigmentation of participants on this thread, the blue dots in the map (skewed toward Central and Southeast Seattle) represent residents of African descent, about 20,000 of them, as I recall.

If you don’t see them, that says something about the value of your observations and comments.

Plus the fact that the city and nonprofits continue to build a disproportional number of low income and/or workforce housing in the South End, ensuring that those neighborhoods north of the canal will continue to be white.

I’m not sure if your argument stands up when you start looking at the individual boroughs in NYC and neighborhoods within them.

Come on down to the South End of Seattle. There are definitely ghettoes in Seattle. Granted they are not as dangerous as those on the East Coast.

Compared to Atlanta, that is like having no black people. 47,000 won’t fill the GA Dome.

You’re talking about a lot of my friends and neighbors. The idea that they don’t exist is absurd. I don’t get your point.

Rich is right. And so is realist.

Before I moved to Rainier Beach the only time I wandered into this area was by accident, and after that was to show my kids city life.
Like NorthWestTrek, lock the doors and don’t feed ‘em.

But I live here now. You can feed me.

But they commit over half the murders in Seattle every year so that’s a pretty productive 47,000.

It is ignorant to believe that neighborhoods are segregated because of some old housing law. People self segregate due to socioeconomic reasons.

The only reason Seattle doesn’t resemble LA or Detroit, yet, is because there are few farming jobs and you are about as far from the south as you could get..

Very naive to ask for racial segregation to come to your communities. Ask the blacks in South Central how it is working out for them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALk4Rk1nWqo

Welcome to Whitopia! Where
Liberals come to pretend living in predominantely black hoods is a pleasant experience.

If we live in a society where that is true, then that shows that there is still racism in society. Again, no need to get defensive, but race is a factor in what makes a society and we should talk about it like we talk about anything else.

Nobody is bummed out because there are a lot of white people in Seattle. The fact that our cities continue to be segregated 50 years after we recognized and started trying to deal with this issue – that is something to be bummed out about.

The idea that Seattle isn’t racially segregated is ridiculous.

Also, socio-economic reasons are not the only factor that segregates society. The fact that we still stick to same racially segregated boundaries that were created by “some old housing law” shows that people of different races still don’t feel fully comfortable amongst each other.

because there are less blacks in America. If we were in the ninth ward, then the conversation would be the other way around.

The comment of the other Guest in response to Elevenfingerfreak is confusing. There is diversity amongst white people, but all asians in Tokyo, Shanghai, and Seoul are the same?

It’s a matter of degrees. Most East Coast and midwestern cities have areas where certain minority groups, blacks in particular, are an overwhelming majority of the population. Certainly Seattle’s population is far different than a random distribution would be, but it is toward the lower end of cities in terms of residential segregation. No group has a majority in much of Southeastern Seattle, with Anglo whites, Asians, Hispanics, and blacks each having significant numbers. The closest thing to a segregated setting is the Central District area, but even there blacks might be a slight majority, and the area is becoming more racially diverse.

That is far different than concentrations in much of New York, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta. Even cities that are mostly white, like Omaha, have much more segregated populations than Seattle. Take a look at maps of New York, Chicago, Detroit, or Omaha, and then look again at Seattle.

But again, a big reason for that is economics. There is a lot more available and low cost land for low-income housing development in South Seattle. If you’re a nonprofit, you get a lot more bang for your buck there than you would in Ballard or Fremont.

Whites in the US come for a myriad of different countries (30 plus nations in Europe. Soeul and Tokyo are filled with essentially all Japanese and Koreans, Shanghai is predominately Han Chinese.

So yes, American whites are far more cultural and ethnically diverse. Gowned, lack of diversity has not hurt these Asian cities one bit.

Hmmm I live in one of those north of the ship canal neighborhoods. Black kid next door, black couple around the street who have lived here 20 yrs longer than I have. Two inter racial marriages on my street including my own.

So where’s the segregation going on?

That’s the homeless population, not the population at large.

puhleeze. Seattle is mainly white, it’s about the whitest big city in American with the exception of possibly Minneapolis, and 47K African American (actuqlly there’s lots of Africans in that, too) is hardly anythign at all, and if one can’t make these simple, factual observations — born from the experience of living in three cities with over 50% African American population in the South, and the Northeast, something you have never done, I will wager — without being called a racist then something’s wrong. I am not saying they don’t exist. I am saying a fact: there are not all that many blacks in Seattle. If you move here from most cities it’s a stunning shocking thing — the whiteness of it all. Seattleites seem to have a big problem with any factually accurate statement of comparison with any other city that might, if one looks at it a certain way, call into question the local cheerleader boosterism tendencies to assume that Seattle is the most progressive and liberal place in the nation. Well, that’s a matter of opinion, but what is fact is this: Seattle is very white and there are relatively few blacks here.

Deal with it.

So Asians don’t count as ‘diversity’? Plenty of Asians living in around Green Lake. I know at least 4 Asian families who live there.

Also, a lot of Somalias and Ethiopians are moving into Greenwood, many leaving the CD and Rainier Valley to help their kids.

So it’s racist for certain classes of black people to feel more comfortable living around people who are like themselves?

Personally I don’t blame them, I can’t stand the faux-diversity living white liberals I live near. Like the one who stood up at a recent school meeting in a room that was 99% white except for my wife and babbled on about how important diversity was to her….my wife had to control her giggles.

Really? I live in lilly-white, North of the ship canal, south of 85th Seattle: The Great White North. 3 black people on my street.

If there’s segregation, how did they manage to move in?

Where are those ghettoes, johnmocha?

I live there and can’t find them.
Even the Lake Washington apartments haven’t been that way for thirty years. Never once seen a problem there, or felt unsafe walking by at any time (although thanks to some I always felt like I should.)

Hang out at Rainier and Henderson from 3pm to 3am. It will become very clear to you. I guess all the shootings and so forth aren’t a problem. But then again, they’re not a problem for the Mayor or anyone north of the canal.

Perhaps you’re right. I checked on the definition of ghetto
A ghetto is now described as an overcrowded urban area often associated with a specific ethnic or racial population; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure.

Hmmm… I guess the TOD will create the overcrowded condition and the further concentration of low income housing will create more social and economic pressure.

Lets talk some facts. First Seattle is rougly 30% minority which actually mirrors exactly the percentage minorities represent in the nation as a whole. I think you guys are use to alot of big cities that actually have a minority percentage that is rather inflated in regards to there national percentage. So actually Seattle is rather proportionate.

Also of course we do not have alot of blacks, the majority of the black population in the country is the south and then the big cities in the ne and midwest were manufacturing was big. That is the way it rolls folks.

i dont think differant races should hate each other but i do belive in keeping humanity unique if everyone got along and there wasent seprate races in citys or states then we’d all end up mix race and soon there wouldent be unique people left we’d all be one color and all speak one language. im not saying any race is better im just saying we as humanity need to stop this whole abomanation of humanity. it dont matter what race you are there are gonna be smart and dumb people in every race.

..or pickpockets.

“white people are evil”…..and “yeah I hate white people too!” boy the level of maturity on this board is tantalizing. What losers.  

I grew up white in an inner city neighborhood that became all black.  I have some observations.  Before anyone lines up to call me racist, know that aside from the fact that I have MANY black friends, and chose a black man to be my daughter’s God Father.  This notion that segregated neighborhoods is down to racism in the past, and that so called diversity (racially) is a necessity to stop monocultures from stagnating is just not intellectually defensible.  A lot of poverty has nothing to do with racism.  Lack of government programs, set asides, quotas is not to blame.  Culture, habits, attitudes, work ethics, etc. plays a role, and in my direct experience and studies around the world, not all races and cultures have equal merit or outcomes.  A credible study showed that as diversity in a neighborhood, city, whatever increased, social capital decreased.  Diversity of ideas is more important than ethnic diversity, which can be a weakness.  People like to live with and amongst people who reflect their ethnicity, religion, and values, and that is the basis of strong communities.  In European immigrant communities, like I observed in Milwaukee, what drew them together, and kept them together was a general compatibility racially, combined with a strong desire to be AMERICAN.  Having a similar religion (Christianity), having a roughly similar ethic origin (white, European), and having strong work ethics, strong religious, family, and community morals is what made these neighborhoods and communities work.  Debate the causes, but don’t tell me poverty or the legacy of slavery is why black neighborhoods are violent and poor, run down, etc., not just in Seattle, but anywhere.  The blacker a place is, the worse a place is, from a neighborhood, to a city, to a country. 

I can find NO exceptions, anywhere.

There may have been some, but the powerful tendency for families to bond together, go out and create their own prosperous communities post Civil War seems to have died out with the adoption of myriad welfare programs, civil rights laws, affirmative action quotas, etc.  There is something destructive and chaotic about the general “black” culture because time and again I find some of the best people I know to be black, but NOT if they accept the general culture.  In fact, the more educated, industrious, and ambitious many blacks are in the inner city, the more vilified by their fellows, being called “wanna be whitey” and the like.  I have too many cops and firefighters in my immediate and extended family, I observed a lot of these kinds of phenomena in the world.  In the military, the more elite the unit (the more personal discipline and intellect come into play), the more white it is in comparison to the military as a whole.  Rather than debating how supposed “white racism” is to blame for black underachievement, poverty, etc, and the implementation of so many expensive, destructive, ruinous policies seeking to redress the wrongs committed by people of another era (but paid for in all ways by people of today, who did none of it), let us look at some simple facts. 

People prefer to live with people who resemble them.  Prohibit NO ONE from living where they can afford and choose to live, but do nothing to encourage mixing, and nothing to discourage voluntary segregation.  We do NOT need programs that cost money to fight people’s private choices unless coercion is used by or against someone.  Look at how, if possible, the schools can reverse bad cultural values without worrying about doing so being “racist” or imperialist.  If all cultures were equally worthy and successful, then America would have been an unnecessary experiment. 

By and large, the Irish did not succeed in Ireland, surrounded by Irish culture, Irish history, Irish laws, and English oppressors until they came to America and chose to keep the best elements of their culture, and reject the worst.  Irish in America have been a success story.  Irish in Ireland…not so much.  That says a lot. 

Why is it racism to point out that blacks sold other blacks to Arab and European slave traders (and today, continue to do so in parts of Africa), and coming to America, an injustice for the people who experienced slavery, was culturally and demographically one of the best things that happened to many blacks.  Encouraging “black culture” which today seems to mean acceptance of gangsterism, illegitimacy (itself a gateway to social and economic deprivation), bad English, and a rejection of the myriad values that made America work.  In cities like Washington DC and especially Detroit, they are wrecks, destroyed remnants and hellholes, and would be far worse, having collapsed entirely years if not decades ago were it not for State and Federal programs (plus individual welfare applications and a multiplicity of make work government jobs for income), which all constantly shovel IMMENSE amounts of wealth of the society at large into the cities. 

These cities were largely built by white natives and immigrants, without aid from the broader society at large, but now, are dens of social pathology, which is what causes poverty, much more than poverty causes social pathology (whites AND blacks in the Great Depression, before, during, and long after maintained stronger families and less crime, illegitimacy, etc,, in the face of grinding poverty, with virtually none of the aid programs of today).  If poverty caused social breakdown, the Great Depression would have been the death knell of white AND black civil society.  The annihilation of the black family, and the breakdown now of the white families, the source of much social pathology, can be traced to too much government interference with civil society, from programs that supposedly end poverty, but actually encourage it, while creating incentives to destroy the family.  That, I believe, in combination with problematic aspects of “black culture” have caused a rapid destruction of black society that now ripples through society.

If we are to argue that genetics is not destiny, and also argue that genetically blacks are not inferior (both of which I believe truly), then we are to look at CULTURE, and black culture, though it can be creative, vibrant, earthy, and is integral to American social development has some weaknesses that have been allowed to progress unchecked, which have caused and continue to cause massive social breakdown, because like sugar feeds cancer, government programs, welfare spending, forcible integration, making excuses for low achievement (and making allowances for same to make it endemic) not only destroy black society, but then destroy all of society in turn. 

Detroit is the obvious example, but as blacks increasingly make up the demographic balance of an urban area, it becomes blighted, and starts an urban decay spiral.  Whites, which built up the city flee, then continue to be bled financially and socially to pay for the city’s failing economy, then black kids get bussed to suburban schools, and so on.  The crime increases, so costs of policing, schooling, etc., increase, which drives up taxes, driving more productive enterprises and people out of the city, increasing the burden on those left.  Without the massive influx of federal and state monies, and the welfare programs supporting so many of the denizens of the city, the whole place would have been abandoned already.  It exists as a modern archeological ruin, like Petra, but with barbarians and bandits within the city limits, rather than outside of them like olden times.  The destruction of Detroit’s business base can be traced to the fact that though city taxes became so heavy, plus costs of crime, the city no longer turned out a workforce capable or interested in work, ethically or intellectually, despite immense spending on schools.  Add international pressures from foreign firms that were not so burdened, and how could they survive and compete.  Detroit once served the world economy, and won WW2 with its production.  It is a modern ruin, and nothing but an enormous expense to the state of Michigan and the Federal government.

I have seen the same thing that happened in Detroit happen to Milwaukee, in slower motion.  The same occurs in much of NYC, and really, pick a city.  The larger the black population, the worse it is.  Seattle doesn’t have a large black population, but the importation of so many Somalis, plus the greatly enhanced birth rates of those immigrants (plus that of blacks), the higher welfare dependency, etc. combine to mean, with liberal social policies, that Seattle will face the same problems.  Twenty, forty years hence, Seattle will be failing like every other city, being an enormous drain on the productive region it is in, with its proud history buried in its ruins.  Changing black culture, failing to feed its worst elements through welfare, affirmative action, and various government programs is the only way.  Black people, in my experience, are just people, but in large groups and concentrations, a cultural influence manifests.  Whatever the culture, of anyone, refuse to accept chaos, violence, or shiftlessness and dependence.  Refuse any and all government policies that enable such things, which seems to be most government policies.  Then the black sections of the city, if populated by a vibrant and hard working populace, not allowed to blame race or whitey as an excuse for underachievement, will be an economic and social strength, to themselves, the city, and region at large. 

Condemn me all you want, but aside from having intensively studied history and economics, and intercultural communications, etc., I have seen it happen, close up, first hand, and listened to many others over the generations  for a long haul perspective by carefully collecting stories and recollections of the elder generations.  Continuing on our current course, using government to force its vision in ignorance of reality, will simply hasten the destruction of the white demographic and society at large.  I am not invested in maintaining a “white” nation, but I am bothered by the obvious attempts to end it through worldwide immigration and policies that harm it.  I think good civilizations, diverse or mostly homogenous, are best left to evolve on their own, without government social engineering or interference.  Since the early 60s, we have seen this happen, from Ted Kennedy’s disastrous immigration bill to various Federal programs, set asides, quotas, welfare programs, you name it.  In the end, I think it slowed natural integration, it made racial strife worse, it caused incredible chaos and economic destruction, and in the end, it is a terrible injusttice, to blacks and whites alike.  It is particularly terrible to lay the blame for black failure on whites, whites who did nothing to cause any of the past injustices who are today expected to pay the price.  In the end, considering how society was mostly built up, the cities were created by white Europeans, natives born, immigrants, and all their descendents, to the extent we bully the taxpaying citizens to pay for and excuse black social problems (which enable it, subsidize it, encourage and worsen it), we destroy civilization at large. 

When all of America’s cities more or less look like Detroit, it will be far too late.  I wish I was wrong on this.  I wish race didn’t seem to make such a difference, but it does, for reasons other than the powers that be and the race hustlers like to admit.  The irony is that some of the best intellectuals that I know, who happen to be black, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, largely agree with me.  They see the problems of black society, and they know it isn’t white society;s fault.  While they are incredible historians and economists, while they have both researched the varied issues that afflict or enable civilization, black or white, they are ignored by most blacks, because being told that your problems are your own fault, and rather than blaming whitey and demanding pay offs (and continuing the problem), nothing will change until the values accepted in the black community change for the better.  It is easier, and more lucrative to blame whitey, take advantage of white liberal guilt, and collect a government check, and stay infantile by the society that is burtanded by the numbers doing this.  .

Also, living in the UK the same factors and consequences have applied.  It is sad.