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Times’ Road Diet Story Perpetuates Car vs Bikes

As we reported in Morning Fizz, the Seattle Times published a piece about the Seattle Department of Transportation’s proposed 125th St. road diet that, once again, frames the issue as primarily cars vs. bikes and neglects to quote a single resident who supports the project.

To be clear, part of the aim of the SDOT’s proposal is to make bicycling safer on 125th. But there are other, equally important benefits—speed and accident reduction and improved safety for drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists alike—that get overshadowed by fears that rechannelization projects will have a massive negative impact on drivers.

SDOT’s blog highlights many of the safety and speed issues on 125th. People drive very fast on 125th and, unsurprisingly, there are a lot of accidents. SDOT reports:

• Eighty-nine percent of eastbound vehicles and 74 percent of westbound vehicles drive faster than the posted speed limit of 30 mph.
• The speed at which motorists are comfortable traveling (the 85th percentile speed) is 10 to 12 mph over the posted speed limit.
• From January 2007 to April 2010, there were 153 reported collisions along this stretch of 125th.
• In that same period, there have been 13 reported collisions involving pedestrians and three involving cyclists.
• Fifty-one percent of reported collisions resulted in injuries, compared to a citywide average of 33 percent on similar streets.

In addition, the SDOT blog points out that there are roughly 16,200 daily car trips on 125th. A three-lane rechannelization has enough capacity for 25,000 vehicles. And the safety and speed improvements come at the relatively low cost of $50,000 to $60,000.

Those facts get lost in the Times story among repeated claims by North Seattle residents that the rechannelization will destroy businesses, that no cyclists ride on 125th, and that it will result in massive gridlock. Neighbors leveled similar charges when SDOT proposed road diets on Stone Way, Fauntleroy Way, and elsewhere. Each time, those fears have not panned out.

Though the Times frames the issues poorly, the piece does give an accurate picture of the fear and misunderstanding surrounding the project. Every time the city proposes a major road reconfiguration, the debate devolves into an unproductive and inaccurate us-vs.-them, cars-vs.-bikes debate, despite the fact that that is rarely the sole issue driving the city’s proposed changes. It’s natural to assume that cutting the number of travel lanes in half will also cut roadway capacity in half. It’s equally natural to resist big changes when you think they not only won’t benefit you, but will make your life harder.

Given that people express those same fears with each new road diet proposal, forcing SDOT and advocacy groups like Cascade Bicycle Club to spend energy explaining why the proposal is about more than just bikes (typically with middling results), it’s worth reevaluating the initial approach to road diets to try and minimize the inaccurate debate from the beginning.

It’s not that SDOT didn’t do any community outreach: As I reported in an earlier piece on the proposal, SDOT Communications Manager Rick Sheridan says the agency “worked aggressively using a number of different tools to make the community aware of the project,” used email and door hangers, contacted local community groups, and showed up to talk about the project at community meetings.

However, SDOT’s focus seems to have been on describing the elements of the project, rather than explaining why it’s needed. The facts that SDOT listed on their blog last week are stark and compelling. They show 125th for what it is: an unnecessarily fast street with an unnecessarily high rate of accidents and injury. But that post came long after the debate about the project began. The SDOT project page doesn’t explain how reducing vehicle lanes slows down traffic, nor that it does so at a relatively low cost. It doesn’t explain why the project makes pedestrian crossings safer. These are essential elements of every road diet project, and they can’t be overemphasized.

Road diets are always going to be contentious, and some people will never believe they’re anything but punishment for drivers. But any effort to break the endless cycle of misunderstanding and fear about their impacts will be energy well spent.


  • is zero "safe"? Ban cars.

    16 collisions involving bikes and peds in 2007 to 2010, in the same time, what nine million car trips?

    Say one ped or bike collision for every 600,000 car trips.

    That's unsafe?

    reduce for ped fault or biker fault….gotta be at least 3 of the 16 their fault…so it's really like one every million trips.

    That's unsafe?

    what level is safe btw?

  • Barleywine

    A wacky idea:
    Since we live in a representative democracy, why can't we let the people we elect just do their jobs? Study says road diet is good>do the road diet.

    I'd rather not have unelected people, even if it is The People, be allowed to stall every project they don't understand. It can be re-striped every four years if need be.

  • Grover

    From The Times' article: “According to SDOT, the capacity for a two-lane road is about 25,000 vehicles per day, and Northeast 125th now carries about 16,200 daily. The city doesn't have figures on the number of bicyclists who use the street.”

    16,200 vehicle trips per day equals about 6 million vehicle trips per year. So in the period studied, that would amount to about 19,000,000 vehicle trips — not the 9 million estimated in the comment above.

    That means about one pedestrian collision for every 1.5 million vehicle trips.

    Central Link light rail makes about 90,00 vehicle trips per year. I believe there were at least 2 collisons between Link trains and pedestrians in Link's first year of operation, or about one pedestrian collision per every 45,000 Link train trips. Compared to one pedestrian collision in every 1,500,000 vehicle trips on 125th.

    Obviously, Link trains are a lot more dangerous than vehicles on 125th St. Let's put Central Link on a “diet” and reduce the speed of those trains, since they clearly are very dangerous.

    By the way, how many bicycle trips per day are there on 125th, and why does SDOT not give out that information? Is the number of bike trips so small as to make bicycle lanes an obvious waste?

  • misha

    Are you being sarcastic? Say there was a sniper living along 125th that shot a car driver ever 4 months. Would you say that that's still “safe”, or would you think it's a good idea for Seattle to spend $60,000 to stop him?

    Obviously the answer to the number of injuries, damage, and deaths is “as few as possible while still retaining mobility.”

  • misha

    Bicyclists go where there are bike lanes. Hey, I counted the car trips on the Burke-Gilman Trail – there were zero! That must mean car lanes are a total waste!

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Here's what the 42MPH drivers are doing: They're heading N on Greenwood b/c it's faster than Aurora, and then they're zipping over to Lowe's and Home Depot on 125th. I've done it. So SDOT will road diet both Greenwood and 125th to slow everyone down. You know what? It'll still be faster than Aurora, even if you can't go quite so fast anymore.

    The Times sucks. We all know that.

  • ivan

    “People we elect?” The SDOT bureaucrats behind these “road diets” aren't on any ballot I know of. Maybe in the la-la-land you live in.

  • Barleywine

    “SDOT bureaucrats”

    True. If these are union bureaucrats we'll need secret elections to vote them out.

    Barleywine
    La-la-land.

  • morning

    You idiot. People that get hit by light rail are stupid fools. People that get hit by cars are innocent victims of society's ills.

  • Ty

    well written piece, thank you.

  • Grover

    Is anyone proposing to put car lanes on the Burke-Gilman Trail?

    I didn't think so.

  • Grover

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume this is sarcasm.

  • morning

    Your assumption is correct. Sorry it wasn't totally clear.

  • joshuadf

    Trains are dangerous, but they serve a useful purpose in our transportation network. Same with cars. However, that doesn't mean safety can't be improved. The function of 125th as an arterial street can be retained while improving safety for drivers as well as pedestrians and cyclists, so it's a win-win situation.

  • seandr

    You know what else perpetuates car vs bikes?

    http://www.publicola.net/2010/08/04/car-hater/

  • ? = not sarcastic = ?

    “as few s possible while retaining mobility” is a good goal. I hope you're not being sarcastic. But to judge if the accident rate is “few” or a “lot” we need some comparable data. Is this accident rate low or high, we don't know. And what's your definition of mobility? I agree road diets can happen without a significant reduction in mobility. but at some point there is an impact. Do you have a measurement for it? Haven't heard it. And btw the cost isn't the 460K the cost is the impact on mobility. And btw, it would cost the City of Seattle exactly the cost to print one ordinance to ban all cars, therefore with the logic of your first sentence, why not do it?

    Seriously, people who ask for a bit of data are not your enemy. go ahead, provide the comparables and make your case; don't get all snippy because people take the data provided and ask questions! Answer them. You can do it!

  • comment

    great post. My original estimate was only order of magnitude.

    but those who cite data only on condition no one will think about the data will not answer your questions.

  • the management

    yes morning this is seattle. All sarcasm must be labelled as such, it's considered rude to have a sense of humor; it's aking to dancing at woodland park concerts outside the dance corral.

  • irreligious

    not until you do all the math. First we want to know is this a hi or lo accident rate? If this street has a lower one than other streets, make other streets safer first. Second, if the accidents are a concern, aren't the car to car accidents a concern? maybe bettter speed limit enforcement lowers collision rates more. or less. or stop light. who knows? We didn't study this. finally, assuming there's no impact on car mobility due to losing two lanes is wrong. Of course the road can process the cars, but do the trips take longer? hung up on turners, parkers, slow movers more? who knows? it's not being studied because the road diet is assumed to be win win then numbers are bandied about and the first time someone comes up with a comparable like light rail then it's blithely dismissed. Bottom line: this is religion, not planning.

  • road anoxeria is best

    okay you're right. let's roa diet every road. let's road diet aurora and i 5. what about 15th nw and homan too? road diets are win win win win win keep repeating it win win win , so let's get on with it!

  • NordicGal

    Once again the Cascade Bike Club alienates more people with stupid quotes – like this one in the Times story from the club representative:

    “The folks are trying to confuse the issue. The fact we can improve conditions for bikes is a win-win. It's hard to understand how an adult can come to the conclusions that neighbors have come to.”

    It is hard to understand how anyone could possibly conclude that things would get better for people on bikes by basically calling the people with concerns about the project children in the newspaper.

    This quote speaks volumes about why things get framed badly: the root cause is generally the leadership of the Cascade bike club, who have a gift for alienating people.

  • Biliruben

    What’s wrong with Eastlake, other than the lack of bike lane?

  • The Information

    The recent annexation now gives Kent a population of 120,000 — or one fifth the size of the “city” of Seattle.

    So, yes, I definitely would give Kent a look see if you’re thinking about moving to a place where its still manageable.

    To my tastes, 200,000 is about the upper limit of what a city should be. After that, things get out of control.

    My own suggestion for Seattle is that they fungigate it into 4 newer, smaller cities — North, West, Central and South — so that every “solution” is not some building a megalith.

  • Mr. X

    Well, perhaps if those strategic advisors were spending less of their workday trying to figure out new ways to make already congested arterial streets even slower (and coming up with new marketing approaches to try and get around public opposition) they’d have more time to do other work.

  • Mr. X

    …and even if it’s only 1 minute and 18 seconds (which, given that SDOT is doing this nonsense on lots of other crosstown routes, it’s probably not. Heck, it’s probably more than that on this route alone), multiply that times two, times 5, times 50 (assuming you get a two week vacation each year), and that’s close to 10 additional hours in traffic per year on that segment alone.

    Can I bill the city for the cost of my time, please?

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Have you driven on Stone Way or 15th Ave W since the road diets there? If so, please tell me how much it completely ruined your trip. Please estimate how much extra time it cost you?

    It's easy to see how drivers (like you and me) get upset about these road diets. In reality, though, they aren't that bad.

    And they can be re-striped if it turns out to be a bad decision.

    If you want mile after mile of open road, move to Eastern WA. This is a city.

  • RonK, Seattle

    Heaven forbid any local publication should ever perpetuate cars vs bikes.

  • JoshMahar

    “But to judge if the accident rate is “few” or a “lot” we need some comparable data.”

    Josh does state that accident injuries are 18% higher here than similar city streets. That seems to suggest that the current safety is below average.

  • ivan

    Lamarck and Lysenko were evolutionary biologists, too.

  • Mr. X

    Ever been to Paris, New York, London or Rome? They have big-ass pedestrian-unfriendly boulevards to move through traffic that make Seattle’s comparatively small arterial routes look like footpaths in comparison. Last I checked, those cities are still cities.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin’)

    I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE roads like that in Seattle.

  • Some Dude

    according to matt the engineer, he’d prefer that the train operator be sentenced to prison time. after all, “You are the one driving the deadly weapon. They are the ones that end up dead. You need to be aware of all possible scenarios, not just the expected ones, and drive appropriately.”

    that includes pedestrians who have a total disregard for their own safety. insane.

  • JoshMahar

    How so? I think almost all of the proposed road diets throughout the region (Mercer Island Way, LWB in Kirkland, Eastlake, Stoneway, etc.) have all been done. Many of them have provided much appreciated cycling space and at the same time, freight and vehicle traffic have continued to move along just fine, with no significant problems shown anywhere.

    Road diets have proven to be a very cost effective way to increase safety (for peds, cyclists, AND drivers) with negligible traffic effects. The argument against them is tired because even though we have and will continue to implement them through the region, we have the same backlash of “this road is different” each and every time.

  • fgruben

    the logic here seems to equal road diets to layoffs. just get rid of the people and it will be better. great idea. why doesn't 1/2 of seattle move away. that would solve the problem. and at the rate mcschwinn is going, that will happen. lets hope the city can make do with less taxes then.

  • Kaeldra

    Well, duh, it’s going to take longer – that’s the point – to SLOW DOWN traffic! You won’t be able to go 10 over anymore, like 85 percent of people do.

    This is a safety issue for everyone, not just for cyclists. There were 150+ car-car collisions on the road during that time period, and the 50% injury rate applies to those collisions as well as the bike and pedestrian accidents. The number of auto accidents is probably going to be what’s reduced most, and if people are driving slower, the injury rate for those (auto) accidents will probably also decrease. This is going to help keep drivers safer.

  • JoshMahar

    There seems to be a constant refrain from road diet opposers that the street improvements negatively impact mobility. While I don’t doubt that vehicle traffic is probably slowed slightly, I’m not sure that this is a negative at all. Other than anecdotal evidence of a trip taking a bit longer, can anyone tell me a place where property values declined, or businesses lost money due to a road diet. If anything, it seems that an actual and/or perceived increase in safety would actually increase property values as well as encourage more pedestrian traffic to any businesses along such a corridor. I think one could easily argue that overall economic vitality is actually increased around road diets. One example might be Eastlake. This early road dieted street just finished one of the largest building booms in the city, with new construction and businesses seemingly flourishing there over the last few years.

    And even if vehicle mobility is slowed a bit, I think it must also be acknowledged that road diets do in fact encourage more pedestrian and cycling trips, which would have to be factored into any overall mobility discussion.

  • Eddiew

    SDOT has to balance multiple modes: not just bikes, cars, and peds, but also freight and transit. NE 125th Street carries 15-minute headway service on Route 41 with timed connections at both Northgate and Lake City. excessive speeds are a key factor on NE 125th Street. hey, there could also be designated bike routes on non arterial streets.

  • morning

    I'm sorry. But I will do it again. Maybe I need Schick Schadel.

  • Jakers

    Agreed. Since when is cycling a right? Choosing (we’re all about choice around here, right?) to join cars on the roadway means that you take on the same risks that other drives take one when they decided to enter the roadway. If you don’t feel safe, don’t enter the roadway.

    Like I tell my wife and five-year-old, it doesn’t matter that the sign says walk and if you get hit it wouldn’t be your fault, you’d still be the one in the hospital or dead, so you’d better watch out.

  • fgruben

    These are all good points. But you miss the main point. This is occuring on a major traffic moving street. It would be much simpler if SDOT would designate a slower traffic street for bikes. It seems that they just want to get rid of cars, not the stated intent of making it safe for bikes. Are they afraid of neighborhood protests then??

  • giffy

    It wasn't 16 fatalities, it was 16 collisions. In fact given how few pedestrians and cyclists are killed in Seattle, I would wager none of them in this case died.

    Not that its the Cities role, but 60k could provide a good number of AIDS drugs to people that would extend their lives.

    While this project is a good one, it honestly has more to do with preventing car accidents and making the neighborhood more appealing to foot traffic then the very small number of ped/bike collisions.

  • morning

    Stone is a bad example. Look at 45th and Eastlake. I know these streets and the diets have congested them.

    They don't re-stripe and you know it. It as hard to re-stripe as it is to fire a strategic advisor.

    If you want a bicycle only city, move to, er, ah, China – no that won't work – ah Copenhagen, no they have tons of cars – Katmandu yeah that's the ticket.

    And if rush hour buses get slowed way down – screw thems toos cause dem ain't kool bikers.

  • kurisu

    Grover fail math? That's unpossible! You have to divide by the distance or time to get the exposure risk. Most trips on 125th do not begin and end on 125th.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Hmmm, I'll give you Eastlake. I did like it before. I'm not a bike zealot at all. I do believe in sharing the road, though.

    And, for the record, the average SDOT Strategic Advisor is completely overworked right now. Budgets have been cut, people who left have not been replaced, and they're expected to do 'less with more' just like everyone else. They do make good money – it's now a complete fallacy that government jobs pay less than private sector jobs – but they work hard for it.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Dude, if you have to drive 32mph instead of 39, can't pass Grandma, and have to wait for Doofus to make a turn (even though he waited until the VERY last second to put on his turn signal), you will have lost a grand total of 1 minute and 18 seconds of your life.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    I like McSchwinn! Haven't heard that one yet. My compliments.

  • Anonymous

    When oil is 1 order of magnitude more per barrel than now (i.e., $700), you’re not going to see as many cars on the road. Since you hate bikes so much maybe you’ll be ready to go back to horses?

    The basic problem: we’ve come to expect moving our asses and endless crap around endlessly due to cheap energy as a god given right. Not sustainable.

  • CVBrown.PE

    And also to Grover and a few others:

    If I may provide you with a small analysis lets take the ADT of 16,200, the total accident frequency (Fx) as stated in the article as being 153, and the time frame as 3.33 years. Then, compute the vehicle miles of travel at 28.63 million over this time frame on this entire route. This yields an accident “rate” of 5.34 accidents per million vehicle miles of travel (5.34/mvm). BTW, this is one way traffic engineers will express such data. Then, lets look at some samples.

    In King County the average rate on all state highways, including the very low accident rate on I-5, is 2.27/mvm.

    In King County on all principal arterials it is 2.97/mvm.

    On collector arterials it is 4.27/mvm.

    With the 125th accident rate of 5.34/mvm contrasted against collector arterials at 4.27/mvm there is very likely (but not guaranteed) some chance that this exceeds the median collector accident rate (with p. at 0.95) by a statistically significant margin.

    The real question is this. Is the current accident rate statistically significant or is it near the median with the exceptions being due to chance, and chance alone?

    If the accidents along the entire route are due to chance, then you could spend a billion dollars and not change anything.

    To me, that is the real problem.

    So far, all we have from SDOT, the Cascade Bicycle Club and others is mere opinion and that is worth absolutely nothing in this argument.

    Next, what about the intersection accident rates? Is this not important, too? So far, SDOT has done a lousy job with their statistics. I can guess why. Probably in their traffic department they don't have any well educated or experienced traffic engineers. Does anyone know how to run a “control chart analysis”? It seems, from the hearings I have attended, they promote on the basis of gender and color.

    Chris

  • morning

    There used to be two major and a minor grocery store between Lynn and Allison. There was a major boat retailer, in fact, where Bayliner Boats was started. That building became the police union location. Advance Outboard was a major employer with real family jobs. The biggest biz is Eastlake Bar and Grill which has the only major parking lot.

    The housing that has been built there was well after the diet and a result of the national housing mania,sub-primes and up zoning.

    The argument that if land values go up that proves they are good is specious. Big highways have always stimulated development – so they must be good.

    Ballard has had no major transit improvements or road diets and has had a tremendous building boom dwarfing the limited projects in Eastlake.

  • Grover

    The stretch of Link where the accidents occurred is how long? (hint: they did not occur on any elevated segments or tunnel segments).

  • do the math

    Good point! However, if you get stuck at three lights instead of none, you lose three minutes. And even at 78 seconds you have to do the math times however many million of trips, etc. Again, if every life is infinite value, we should ban all cars and all bikes and achieve 100% safety, in total dullness.

  • antiinumerate

    you also have to wonder if the method of achieving safety is the best one; alternatives are enforce all speeding laws for real, put in lots of stoplights, road diet, ban all cars and all bikes, each one has costs.

  • antiluddite

    Thankfully you are conceding there is a negative time impact on drivers, unlike the road dieters who lie and claim there is no negative impact.
    I am merely saying we have to measure and think, not just blindly claim there is no negative impact. For me? Yes, stone way. It cost me about an hour one day — July 4th. Other days just a few minutes. But usually I avoid Stone way and this is possible because there are alternatives. Of course there are alternatives for the bikes, too, so the whole bike lane thing on Stone way was a anticar move in my view.
    I have noticed that the study claiming 1 of six vehicles on stone way since road diet is a bike, in peak period, is a compelte lie.
    BTW in seeking that folks do the math, be open and honest, I am not being “upset” or “angry.” Those are just Seattlese words for refusing to debate someone. Same with your comment about Eastern Washington. I have lived in cities FAR more dense, walkable, and urban than Seattle, I have been carless, I have ridden transit up to about 600 times a year, sometimes 4 times a day, and I am far more pro transit and pro walking than most, but I am not tolerant of happy-face bullshit lies like telling people who drive a road diet has no negative impact on them.
    I'd rather we just come out and say it: we are trying to slow down car traffic because we value bikes more than cars. This is because bikes don't kill the planet as much as cars do. So hampering drivers is good.

    The happy face lying approach to life, that's what they do over in Eastern Washington where they are creationists and believe no government program ever did anything good as they suck up electricty and water on their farms. I prefer fact based, learned approach.

    It'd be nice if the enviro and bike community used that kind of approach more consistently. Ad hominem attacks on people who simply ask to see the math is luddite and reactionary so cut it out.

  • The Information

    Although it raise the ire of urbists, I would like to say that having recently had to try and go crosstown in North Seattle, what is needed is just the opposite.

    What Seattle needs are more limited access highways that go East-West to pull cars off the the other streets.

    125th would be the perfect place for an elevated highway.

    They could use another at 85th or 65th to take people directly from I5 to Ballard and the Sound.

    The Frankenstein monster approach of throwing in the kitchen sink, of putting bikes up against cars (I notice that there seems to be no physical barrier to the bike lanes) and worst of all, restricting car traffic and thus pushing more cars onto other streets, seems the worst of all worlds!

  • Grover

    http://seattletransitblog.com/2010/08/17/rider-…

    “Due to a fatal accident between Puyallup and Tacoma, Sounder service is delayed over an hour and trains are being turned at Puyallup. It is unknown at this time if Cascades trains will run as scheduled to Portland.”

    There are only 18 Sounder trains per day between Seattle and Tacoma. That means about 13,000 Sounder trips so far this year, and already at least one fatal collision, out of just 13,000 Sounder trips.

    Clearly, Sounder trains are very dangerous.

  • The Information

    It's actually not unthinkable. There are many good right-sized cities in Washington which are not suffering the ills of bad planning and high density crooks.

    Tri-Cities has a population of 200,000, plenty of amenties, spacious bike lanes, a water front on the river, and low cost housing as well as a growing economic base.

  • The Information

    I think the people who speak out against “vehicular cycling” say it best. There majority of people (60 percent according to a recent survey in Portland) are people who want to bike, but don't want to be anywhere near a car. For most, separating bikes and cars, and giving cars a valid, high speed corridor to pull them off neighborhood streets, coupled with designed bike routes along low trafficked side streets serves more people.

    Again, look at Portland. They have a rich network of highways. You can easily jump on and off a freeway.

    At the same time, they are the number one bicycle friendly city in the US. Yet, when they designate a bike route, it can go through humble residential streets, with minimal car traffic.

  • The Information

    You know. Thinking about it.

    If people really, really want to build a tunnel, maybe they should build it all along 125th so there would be this high speed corridor for cars. I-5 to the shore.

  • Mr. X

    “Road Diet” supporters only think this debate is “tired” because they're losing it.

  • morning

    But here's the rub – in Seattle there are about what 1,000,000 trips by car a day – probably a lot more, but let's say 1 mil. If very trip is a 1 minute slower, then that's !60,000 extra hours of engines running per day. Stop and go driving makes for bad gas mileage. Road diets are redoubtably adding pollution here.

  • makes money too..

    Since all roads have massive noncompliance with speeding laws, one place to start would be to enforce the speeding laws we now have.

    It's a culture of disobedience. If people cheated ten percent on their taxes, on minimum wage laws or on say, the number of smoke alarms in an apt., well that we don't tolerate.

    But cars breaking the law? That's expected.

    Simple solutions are to double the fines for a second offense. Right now a $124 speeding ticket is barely a noticeable fine. If the second offense was $250 or $500 — that'd be the ticket. But mainly simply announcing one day that all speed limits will be enforced and handing out massive numbers of tickets would do the job.

    As it is, cops drive around all day every day seeing thousands of speeders and doing nothing.

  • Jakers

    John wouldn't want you to leave Kent out of the conversation.

  • Jakers

    This was a pedestrian trespassing on the tracks. While tragic no matter the reason, it's an important reminder for drivers, cyclists and pedestrians to follow the laws and walk, ride, drive where they are supposed to.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/425202_sounder17…

  • Anonymous

    Only if those hours aren’t offset by the decrease in accidents. Oh, and be sure to adjust pollution figures for hybrid and electric cars, which do quite well in stop and go traffic.

  • kurisu

    Road diet supporters, climate scientists and evolutionary biologists

  • Look4wrd

    24th and 8th Ave NW are both in Ballard and are examples of successful road diets that overcame initial opposition and that pretty much all users say works well in their revised configurations.

    And, Ballard has boomed! There ya go, road diet = boom.

  • morning

    8th with 12k and 24th with 10k ADT and 3rd, 15th, 32nd as parallel alternatives – very comparable to Eastlake. The development in Ballard isn’t on the streets you mentioned.

  • Look4wrd

    24th has had several new projects develop post road diet.

  • Baluddite

    So how much development occurred along 8th as a result of putting in that planting strip that pedestrians aren’t even allowed to cross almost 20 years ago? Oh yeah, that’s right, the answer is pretty much NONE whatsoever.

    Same for most of 24th, by the way, but throw in the fact that it’s absurdly congested at peak hours and only a handful of bicyclists use it.

  • LRTbike

    Also, if you are driving slower, you conserve for gas, so you get better fuel economy. While it may reduce travel time, it will make the street a better place to walk and shop and reduce car on car accidents. The point of a road diet to to reduce travel speeds/force drivers to obey speed limits. Where is everyone going so fast?

  • http://hans.gerwitz.com hans.gerwitz

    Maybe you should give Grandma and Doofus a reasonable following distance so you don’t have to slam on your brakes and waste energy. Of course, that makes all of you more likely to live longer lives, which isn’t very green.

    @X: you cannot bill the city for your “lost time”, but you can, perhaps, ask for a refund on the tolls you pay for that infrastructure. I know, I know, you pay taxes for that, but I walk to work so am entitled to a much nicer refund if we take that approach.

    (And let’s head off any “car-hating hippie” perception: I love driving and have raced in the SCCA. I don’t hate cars, just the selfish drivers who wield them with entitlement in my living area.)

  • http://hans.gerwitz.com hans.gerwitz

    Yeah, they should all use the grid of safe auto-free paths we’ve laid across the city.

    I trust that if pedestrians and cyclists were encouraged to carry dart guns and flatten your tires, you would blame yourself for exposing your car to a dangerous situation.

  • Artful Bodger

    Historical side note: It was bicyclists who first agitated for paved roads. It was motorists that followed the bicyclists on to these paved roads. So if any group should have precedence on our roads it should be bike riders!

    Many of our roads were constructed for uses other than automotive. Most famously is Yesler Way which started out as a log chute hence “Skid Row”. Later came the Yesler cable car,the bull wheel of which can be found in the mezzanine of the Pioneer Square tunnel station.

    The long automotive summer is drawing to an end. Change is on its way — again.

  • kurisu

    Um, absurdly congested? What are you smoking?

  • Barleywine

    Not relevant, but Shawn Mullins lives in lalaland, and it reminded me of you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoWEpKBgNM8

  • me

    Or people who get hit by cars are idiots who jaywalk or otherwise break the rules of the road ’cause they think they don’t apply.