They Really Don’t Like Light Rail in Bellevue

Come on, Erica. From this:
“That’s one implication you could take, anyway, from these signs, versions of which have been cropping up all along 112th Ave. SE, where Sound Transit plans to build light rail:”

You get this?
“They Really Don’t Like Light Rail in Bellevue“

So we're extrapolating from some homeowners who don't want light rail in their neighborhood to the population of Bellevue? Unfortunately, in a place like Bellevue that doesn't have much of a culture of civic engagement, a small group of NIMBY's have all too much opportunity to dominate the discourse.

They don't want a train on their street, which is far different from in their neighborhood. In this case it's NIMFY.

MLK is horrific. I wouldn't want a giant train on my street either. I doubt any of the big promoters would either.

With at-grade and elevated rail, when you're talking about “the wrong side of the tracks” that usually means “by them.”

Jake to Elwood – “How often does the train go by?”

Elwood to Jake – “So often you won't even notice.”

Bellevue landowner anti-transit politics can be extreme. I heard that there were some really intense battles over creating bike paths in the 1990s.

Suburban isolation causes extremism.

“Of course, that second one could be read as supporting light rail…”

That took me a few minutes, and then a few more.
But now I'm laughing both last and loudest.

What's so horrific about it? There aren't as many crossings as a pedestrian might like, but it has nice wide sidewalks.

except that I don't think there are any houses fronting on 112th. The all front the interior streets of the neighborhoods.

so it really is NIMBY

Build it anywhere, density and walkable neighborhoods will flock to it.

Anywhere but South Seattle.
We have NIMBYs down here that will put your Shoreline peeps to shame.

But I just haven't felt their presence lately.
Either they're gone, or my sense of smell is gone.

Question:

How many of the people who regularly post with pro-transit comments either

1) Live within one block of the current LINK train
2) Ride it more than once a week

John, you are confusing people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves and real people.

Plenty of real people know that something may not benefit them at the moment but may benefit the region and planet.

I'm not guessing you know any of those people, but please listen when you encounter one. May be an eye-opener for you.

Is that a no?

Um, yeah. No.
I'm in a neighborhood that should love LINK, but will never walk 1/4 block to pee. They pee in their pants. You win.

John,

Does this count: I'll be picking my spouse up at the Light rail station in a about a half hour, and I rode it last Thurs to attend a meeting.

So now can I point out that of the mega projects being planned, 99, 520 and light rail, light rail is the only one that doesn't rely on a hedge fund or a Ponzi scheme.

And MLK isn't that bad, and it wasn't that good before the train anyway, a typically miserably designed arterial in America, par for the course.

thanks all,

Jazzerciser

Just a little confused by your comment. The people that are the leaders of the LR movement don't live on main streets. None of them live on MLK Way or 112th. Most of them live in SF homes.

It is very admirable that these people are willing to have other people lose their homes, as they know them, to save the planet.

The leaders of the LR movement do not live on main street. True.
But the leaders of the anti-LR movement live in SF homes. Also true.

And the leaders of the anti-LR movement suck, in my humble opinion.

And they fight for others as fakes. Liars. Scumbags. Stakeholders.

They will soon when rail opens to Cap Hill and Husky Stadium, but right now they are on buses. What is your point? Oh yeah, I forgot..you don't have one.

“And MLK isn't that bad, and it wasn't that good before the train anyway”

True, but I MUCH prefer MLK now to pre-train.
Anyone who opposed development on MLK must have wanted more of a handout.

Now that handout is done, how's about some payback?

Who cares what Bellevue thinks? Those people are sheep. The light rail will come in, they'll see the ads telling them it's all right. They'll see people like them riding it, and the drama will be over.

I don't get the sense that Erica really knows much about anything. She's good at gossip, but the next step to analysis isn't really there.

Almost all of the major development projects you see now along the MLK corridor are the result of previously planned large scale HOPE VI renovations of existing public housing stock in Holly Park and Rainier Vista. One difference, though, is that they didn't add any net new affordable units in those VERY expensive redevelopment projects, and instead focused on trying to attract upscale new home buyers to subsidize those projects. Last I heard, they were losing money on that part of the deal – and a whole lot of longtime Rainier Valley residents were pushed out to points south in that process. Other than that, there has been little unsubsidized development along the light rail route.

Contrast this with the Delridge corridor in West Seattle, which has experienced as much or more gentrification and displacement of longtime residents through private sector redevelopment without the presence of mass transit as MLK has with it.

Personally, I think they should have run light rail down the E-6 busway along the I-5 corridor or some other similar route instead of running it at-grade through the Rainier Valley. It would have been done years earlier and much closer to the original budget, and would have far more riders than it does now.

Ever wonder why the rest of the state – which outnumbers Seattle 6.1 million to .6M – hates Seattle? Now you know.

(and that said, I think light rail to Bellevue should go downtown and reasonably close to Bellevue Square.)

I live within a block of MLK. I ride the LR whenever I can (to head toward downtown, or to the airport, or even once for a seminar at the Hilton near the airport). I will ride it more when it goes to Cap Hill. And I would ride it a ton if it went to greenlake/ballard, or daily if it went toward my job in Renton.

But Barleywine is correct that you seem to think that only people who have immediate benefit should support something. And anyone who doesn't personally benefit directly, should be immediately opposed. Which leads to a number of your less useful comments.

Ok,
Josh, and to a lesser extent, Erica, are always pointing out the difference between the opinion and the news portion of their site. But this piece is obviously an opinion piece and yet it is listed under “News & Politics, The City”. So I don't get it. There isn't news here, and other readers have correctly pointed out that Erica jumps from 2 signs to deciding the city of Bellevue is extremely anti-train. But it looks like it's a news story. Should we just assume that the C is for Crank hat is always on, and that Erica's posts are always opinion? I hope not, because I think she could be a good journalist if she put in a little effort and didn't try quite so much just to get a scoop, or a couple of page clicks with sensationalist headlines.

Publicola, you are the best news site in the city, but the bar is pretty low so please try not just to beat The Times, but to actually be a reliable organization.

Sincerely, Joey

Yeah, like with those bike paths in Shoreline, Kent, Tukwila Kenmore, and- oh wait

Well, we know the C isn't for “competent.” I know what it's REALLY for, but I ain't sayin'.

The people that live on 112th that oppose putting a train on their street have SF homes, but they don't hypocritically tell other people to live in little boxes on streets with a train running down the middle of the street.

The people that post on the pro light rail side live in SF homes, away from rail transit , while telling us that people should live in apartments on main line streets and should accept they are sacrificing for the greater good.

And they fight for others as fakes. Liars. Scumbags. Stakeholders..

I really don't understand why you would use such pejorative terms to describe people that have a different idea of how we should proceed. Are you sure that the leaders of the anti 112th alignment aren't the people that actually live there? From the limited reporting, it seems as if many people that live there came out to the ST meeting.

You know what would be crazy? If instead of just taking pictures, she could like… go up to the houses and TALK to the people inside. And like, REPORT on what they say. I dunno, maybe I'm nuts.

As an ex-New Yorker, I've seen how neighborhoods get blockbusted by the powers that be.

First they make life miserable for middle class homeowners by putting in light rail or some warehouse.

Then the homeowners sell out cheap.

Then the “high density” thieves swoop down and put up cubbyhole condoes.

Everything goes from a normal low density nice neighborhood to slum after that.

I was hoping that Puget Sound would be spared this inevitable decline, but Seattle has already succumbed and now the criminals are fanning out to Bellevue and Kent (where they're voting on high density structures).

I think it's great that SF people have the gumption to gang up on them and start fighting this, and the tunnel and all the other scams, criminality and falsehoods of people who want to through the middle class out of their homes and herd them into tiny condoes with no land.

I'd pose a similar question to readers:

1) do you live within 1 block of a major arterial road/highway/freeway?
2) Do you drive on a major arterial road/highway/freeway more than once a week?

Surely many more people and neighborhoods have been 'blockbusted' (as John would say) by arterial roads, highways and freeways than by transit.

I'd pose a similar question to readers:

1) do you live within 1 block of a major arterial road/highway/freeway?
2) Do you drive on a major arterial road/highway/freeway more than once a week?

Surely many more people and neighborhoods have been 'blockbusted' (as John would say) by arterial roads, highways and freeways than by transit.

No, currently I do not live in a condo or along a LR line. I took a job that moved me and my wife to bum**** NC, but which will allow to make alot more money so that when we move back we can afford to move into the city, and not just back to Bellevue.

However I have lived in apartment off of a LR line (actually it was a Strassenbahn line, but American LR is modeled after the German system) and loved it. Can't wait to move home and get a place near a line.

True, but 2016 or 2018 depending on the station location doesn't really qualify as “soon” in my book (especially since the project was first approved in 1996)

I would move as close as possible to a light rail station. And if someone sold me their house on the street with light rail on it I would buy it.

MLK moves faster than it used to. Wonder what sort of horror you see on “natural” slow-moving Rainier Blvd. The housing developments are pleasant and popular. So is the train.

Very few people live within a block of LR in this area.

Transit? I ride several times a week.

Well, Seattle to be fair, Seattle has reasons to be critical of some of the sentiments expressed about it around the state too.

But I agree, geo-based ad hominem slurs are ugly and counter-productive.

I'm looking at you “Silly People”.

I thought it was because we make sweeping generalizations about people based on where they live.

Maybe you should take a look at the sign again. Read: “No trains in our neighborhoods!” That sounds awfully like “no trains in our neighborhood”…oh wait, it is exactly that.

The old MLK is horrific. The new one looks pretty good and will only improve over time. Not sure what your problem with it is. Please elaborate.

I think you've typed that before.

I live 2 blocks away from MLK AND I take it more then 2 times a week. I am pro transit and i post.

Yeah, that darn train is drowning out the 50 cent song I like that my neighbor's hoopdie plays at 4:00am.

People should only lose their homes for larger freeways. That is the American Way of Life.

If we redesign the light rail cars to look like hummers, hire soccer moms to drive them erratically, and have kids with $500 hair cuts flipping people off from the back seats, east siders will love the light rail!

There's certainly a couple of places for sale here in CCity. Come on down – the neighborhood is great and light rail makes it better.

Remember, Rome wasn't burned in a day.

80db is pretty loud – especially at 1AM.

http://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/3822-Martin-Lu…

Only $250,000 3BR right on the line

3822 Martin Luther King Way S

They will sell it to you.

Use Google street view to see the beauty of the street – BTW the ad doesn't show the street, wonder why?

Do they throw earplugs in with that?

Are they really claiming 80dB somewhere? Can you point me to where that comes from? I don't believe 80dB for a second. Having done noise mitigation studies in the past I always find it amazing that someone who lives under the flight path, near a busy arterial, with screaming kids in the front yard, can still find a 45dB hum of a transformer, or whoosh of a train to be the noise that stands out in their head.

That's a weirdly irrelevant comment.

They disappear after you build it. That's the point.

“Within one block” is a weird straw man. I live three blocks away.

Unfortunately for the rest of the state, we're where the jobs and the money are – and that's only becoming more the case.

Morning, I came here from a couple of years of seeing just that kind of liar, fake, scumbag, stakeholder/anonymous, Mr. X use of neighborhood blogs to spread filth daily. But like Ben says, they disappeared. Not because of the rail, but because they were so against Nickels that they could not see beyond him. And HE disappeared.
Now they don't have a focus.

And I so hated those people that now I don't have a focus.

I went to the meeting, my first, hoping that Rich would show. He didn't, but a couple of old half-friends did, so it wasn't a total loss. I got to see some enemies up close, and realized that they were just lost people. Like me, except they sucked. And I watched “My Life in the Eighties”, a kick-ass video that left me smiling all the way to the meeting.

They are done, I think, until they try for Kline again.

Wit. Subtlety.

Class.

look people.

being on a rail line, sucks.

being near a station, is great.

the former is a negative, the latter is a positive.

why to the LRT supporters have to claim that every single aspect of LRT is 100% positive? And detractors the opposite.

Some positives, some negatives.

Same with roads, tanneries, cell towers, buildings, traffic, dates, spouses, nations……..

the “my thing is ideal, all others such eggs” is so South Park.

No, you're just blind to your own brand of urbanist chauvinism and evidently don't understand it.

Seattle's share of both jobs and money have actually diminished relative to the rest of Washington, but enjoy your bubble.

My pleasure….

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews…

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews…

http://blog.seattlepi.com/transportation/archiv…

Really? You'd buy a house in front of the light rail when the station is a mile away?

Why wouldn't you buy a house two blocks back from the light rail with the station a mile away? Why not one 4 blocks from the station?

You're not getting the point. Here it is:

being close to the station is good.

Being in front of the tracks with a train running down your street so you can't cross the street to borrow a cup of sugar from your neighbor is bad; it makes your block less walkable.

Say you disembark a bus in front of your house. Well, if there's a train in front of your house and you need to cross the street you might find you have to walk 6 blocks one way to an approved crossing then 6 blocks back. They just made the bus stop 12 blocks from your home, even though it's right across the street from your home.

” trying to attract upscale new home buyers to subsidize those projects.”

Yes, what a brilliant plan. Pay $400,000 for your house so you can subsidize some goat roasters and/or gang bangers living next door for $200k.

” trying to attract upscale new home buyers to subsidize those projects.”

Yes, what a brilliant plan. Pay $400,000 for your house so you can subsidize some goat roasters and/or gang bangers living next door for $200k.

Face it, rich white liberals will be near the stations, all others will be on the line….or move to Skyway.

Wow! Thanks for the links.

It's definitely not that loud up here near Columbia City station. I agree 82-83 dB would be really bad. Two of your links, however, only said “louder than federal standards”, while the third said that a citizen complaint called it 82 dB “similar to an official reading”, and that new sound tests would come out soon. Did those later tests confirm that noise level? I'm not sure what federal standards are. I know that city/state codes usually limit noise at the property line to 55 A-weighted dBA. Not sure if the 82 dB was using A-weighting or total – and not interested enough to look it up myself.

So often I wish I could be an engineer for every company, not just the one I do work for. I would love to work on figuring out why it's so loud there. In my opinion (obviously not well enough informed to make a true engineering analysis), I don't think that the solution is just a sound barrier. For one, that's really loud to just be muffling. And two, light rail trains shouldn't run that loud, so it's probably indicative of some misalignment, or other deeper issue. Hopefully a real engineering firm is taking a deeper look; read anyone but Sound Transit.

Anyway, if anyone has a link to the newer sound measurements confirming 80dB, please post. I'd like to take a look.

I'm pro-train. I live 6 blocks away (8-10 minutes walk) from a station. I'm 5 doors up a side street off MLK. Luckily for me, my street has a crosswalk (though that also means that i have more traffic than 1 block north or south).

I agree that it's good to be by a station. i agree that along the line has some down-sides, though I think that they are often overblown. The development of the line improved MLK; improved walkability. And I wouldn't have wanted a house ON MLK anymore before the train or after. The street was loud, now the train and the street are loud. Not much worse, maybe a hair louder. The growth around the stations is good and I believe will continue to be good for the neighborhood. Sure I wish i were a 3 minute walk from the station, but it's not bad.

Here's a link citing 80+ db from ST studies….

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews…