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McGinn: Council’s Resolution Won’t Protect City

Echoing the same points he’s been making for the past several months, Mayor Mike McGinn said this morning that a city council resolution that will delay three agreements between the city and the state until after contractors on the deep-bore tunnel release their bids will not protect the city from cost overruns on the project. And he said he would continue to support a referendum on the contracts once they’re signed, sometime in January or February of next year.

“I will not support approving [the agreements] until the state takes the responsibility for cost overruns,” McGinn said. The mayor, along with council member Mike O’Brien, wants to add language to the city-state agreements stipulating that tunnel construction won’t move forward unless the state legislature removes a provision in state law stating the legislature’s intent to make “Seattle-area property owners” pay for cost overruns on the tunnel.

“We’re just going to keep asking the question, ‘Who will pay?’ … I hope that in the next week as the council deliberates, they will consider asking the legislature to change that provision.”

Reiterating his support for a public vote on the tunnel contract (“If the public wants to weigh in on this, they’re entitled to do so”), McGinn accused the council of trying to keep the tunnel issue off the ballot. “They’ve been [saying] for months that we can’t take any delay. … What changed from three or four weeks ago, when the council said they were prepared to sign the agreements, [is] that the public spoke up and said if you proceed in that way, we want to have a public vote on the issue of the contracts,” McGinn said. “They don’t want a public vote. … I think there’s a fair question about whether the council would ever let the public vote on it.”

Yesterday, state Attorney General Rob McKenna sent a letter to Gov. Chris Gregoire saying the cost-overrun provision isn’t enforceable as written, and would require additional action by the state legislature to make it “operative.”

That, to McGinn, is even more reason to oppose signing the contracts without removing the cost-overrun language from state law. “If you’re a taxpayer nothing, in Attorney General McKenna’s letter should give you any comfort,” McGinn said. “What he’s saying is that the legislature indeed has the ability to make Seattle taxpayers pay” for overruns, by adopted additional legislation in the future.

But, I asked McGinn, doesn’t the legislature have that ability even if they remove the cost overrun language next session? If they reversed their legislative intent once, couldn’t they do it again in the future?

“I just think that the state actually saying they’ll take responsibility for cost overruns is better than them saying Seattle will pay,” McGinn said. “If we could get that statement of legislative intent that they intend to pay cost overruns, and get that memorialized in an agreement between the city and the state, I think we would be protected.”

State transportation leaders have said they have no intention of revisiting the cost-overruns provision in the upcoming session, which will be dominated by the budget. However, McGinn said that if the city presented a united front to the legislature, legislators might change their minds. (The cost-overruns measure passed by a narrow margin, 49-47, with six Seattle legislators voting for it.) “I can’t say to you that I have [legislators] who’ve said that they voted one way and now would vote the other way,” McGinn said, but “if the council wants to proceed with the contracts without addressing that, the legislature will have no incentive to remove the language.

“If we stand together, at least we’re in the game.”


  • David Miller

    The silliness continues. Mike, can you get one with governing the city and give up this issue. I mean I know it is why you got elected and it is the only issue that continues to pop up in polling, but actually doing teh job according to what pops up in polls is *not* leadership.

    Work on finding people jobs. Pay some attention to the successes of businesses located in Seattle to make them feel like we give a damn they are here.

    You bike. You hate the tunnel. We get it.

    Next.

  • Stacy

    OK then Mr. Miller, will you then take on the sole responsibility for paying cost overruns? If not, can you identify who specifically will pay?

    Didn't think so, please return to your fight against intra-urban sprawl; we've got billion dollar issues to sort out, thanks.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    This could be the worst debacle in Seattle's history — and I'm trying not to be hyperbolic. Even while I detest the current 520 plan, which is blocks from where I live, I don't think it will bankrupt the city or be a financial disaster. Funding will be found. The bridge will be replaced.

    But the downtown tunnel was a mistake from day one, it still hasn't been justified, and Seattle taxpayers could be on the hook for thousands of dollars of additional property tax as a result.

    I also love the legislature's insistence that the Viaduct replacement benefits Seattle alone, as if Seattle isn't a massive net tax exporter to other parts of the state (same with 520).

    I'm happy McGinn is fighting on this. Remember the Big Dig in Boston? How it wound up costing, if I'm remembering right, 1,000 percent of its original budget? How difficult-to-build projects turned out, well, difficult?

  • Urbanist

    I think McGinn demonstrates real leadership on many hard issues but I fear that he is seriously losing his credibility on this one, especially since he continues to hide his ideological opposition to a necessary auto/bus/freight corridor based behind the cost overrun red hearing. It's time for him to stop being an obstructionist and for Seattle to move forward with the tunnel. The state, county, city council, port and vast majority of stakeholders have come up with a plan that is (of course) not perfect for anyone, but is a compromise that best meets the objectives of all stakeholders.

  • morning

    Since the resolution satisfied the state for now, I think it was the wisest thing to do. I've never been a supporter of the tunnel, but by doing this we will get to see the EIS and the contract before signing on.

    If the contract comes in at or below budget and the EIS leads to a ROD then we will have that knowledge at the real decision time. If the contract has too many outs in it, we can argue those at the time.

    It's time to let this go for awhile and move onto other issues like city budgets and projects. Property taxes will be going down again, the budget problems are not over

  • seandr

    I have yet to hear what exactly McGinn proposes to do once the viaduct comes down. Josh, Erica – have either of you asked him this?

    If saving Seattle tax payers some money is his goal, does that mean he's for a rebuild of the viaduct?

    If penalizing drivers is his motive, is he willing to fork out piles of Seattle tax money for a “surface option”, which as far as I can tell amounts to clogging the waterfront and downtown with the viaduct's traffic?

    Does he want Choppaduct, which is essentially Westlake Center with a road through it. Mmmmm, food court!

    Does he have any interest in putting a park on the waterfront?

    On an issue with no good answers, it's very easy (and very lame) to be an obstructionist. McGinn needs to stand up and share his brilliant alternative.

  • lilaj

    I am so tired of tunnel articles. Booooring.

  • Stacy

    WSDOT approved the I-5-Surface-Transit option and signed off that it would work for traffic, at billions less than the tunnel. The tunnel actually creates worse traffic along the waterfront and in Pioneer Square than the tunnel than the I-5-Surface-Transit option because of the diversion from tolling (though WSDOT's tolling modeling isn't very accurate either way) and the fact that the tunnel funnels all the traffic into one road, instead of dispersing it onto a functional grid and eliminating trips through increased transit service. Also, if the State doesn't live up to it's part of the deal and provide the County with it's MVET authority, than the tunnel will really be a traffic disaster.

  • Qwerty321

    “necessary auto/bus/freight corridor”

    No one has shown that an SR 99 freeway is “necessary.” Improvements to I-5, transit, and the surface street grid will handle the trips. The stakeholders said so, before the Potemkin Tunnel was put back on the table and rammed through.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Or not.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Shorter McGinn = I was unable to stop the tunnel this time.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    And this headline, McGinn does not support tunnel, refuses to propose a viable alternative

  • morning

    Since the tunnel is estimated at under $2B how could the I-5/S/T vision cost billions less?

    Please don't link to the DOA Western/AW couplet plan.

  • Edificekomplex

    In a perverse way, I'd almost support the tunnel just to watch the ensuing clusterfuck when the budget is inevitably busted.

  • seandr

    So, is McGinn advocating that we flood downtown with trucks and repave the waterfront courtesy of the surface option?

  • seandr

    Seattle's share of the costs for the surface option is as greater or greater than its share of the tunnel option.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    Awesome dialog, dude. Thanks for your contribution.

  • tpn

    Hey, um, so, can McGinn actually answer questions with something other then his one talking point to frame the issue in accordance to Polical Consulting 101? The election is over. He was asked specific questions from reporters– do you support a referendum, for example, which is a yes or no question. He responded by reframing the issue with the talking point “cost overruns”. Yeah, voters have a right to file– no shit sherlock–that wasn't the question.

    He did this on other questions also. Regardless of whether or not you agree that cost overruns is “the” issue, I think we can all agree that a politician who refuses to answer questions cannot be trusted about his intentions.

    Oh, and to Erica and Josh– you really ought to consider sitting with the “rest” of the lowly media reporters. Sitting at the table closest to the teacher might make people think that you have some kind of special relationship with the mayor. But we all know better then that. Same goes for trying to have a conversation with the mayor, rather then ask questions. People will get the impression that the relationship is too chummy. We all know that not to be the case, either.

  • P2

    OMG, I agree with David Miller! ;)

    In fact, agree wholeheartedly–we have so many more problems in this City (JOBS JOBS JOBS) than the tunnel!!!

  • tpn

    Ok, who will take respnsibility for footing the bill for the nebulous “surface” option that doesn't even exist? Do we have to pay for the additional consultants and public meetings to even come up with a plan, since the Urbanist Cult is not proposing any specific alternative?

  • Johns

    Bzzt. The Surface + Transit option was studied by WSDOT and SDOT. Remember, it was one of two options that were originally forwarded – the DBT was seen, rightly, as too risky and expensive.

    Would it require money to implement? Of course. Are the cost overrun issues associated with it anywhere near what the tunnel risks are? Of course not.

  • Johns

    That's revisionist history. The DBT did not emerge from any kind of stakeholder process. Qwerty321 has it right below. And the reality is, and WSDOT's numbers continue to indicate, there is very little value in the DBT for freight – and there's, well, almost zero for transit.

  • They couldn't afford Bellevue?

    Sorry Johns, but a contingent from West Seattle has hijacked the discussion here, and you're obviously part of some cult, or, more appropriately an “urbanazi” (because progressive transportation solutions are somehow equivalent to murdering marginalized groups).

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Since the mayor is refusing to propose an alterative we will get the state's second choice, Choppaduct.
    Enjoy.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Can't count how many people have included big dig in these arguments, they are similar in that they have the word “tunnel” in them.
    The rest of your “contribution” is based on what? A feeling, a fear?

    How many WSDOT projects have gone over estimate?
    By how much?

  • http://twitter.com/fattailed fattailed

    You either buried the lede — McGinn calls Seattle taxpayers “nothings”! — or you misplaced a pretty meaningful comma here:

    “If you’re a taxpayer nothing, in Attorney General McKenna’s letter should give you any comfort,” McGinn said.

  • giffy

    I would like McGinn to explain how, under the state constitution the legislature can tax a subset of property owners. They cannot do it directly as taxes have to be uniform and they cannot compel a city to levy a tax as that is explicitly prohibited(not to mention only a difference of form).

    Is the State Constitution not law enough for McGinn?

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    The governor said that they were moving ahead on an elevated replacement so West Seattle would not get held up by Seattle indecision, like a fuse. If a decision was not made by the time the new elevated reached the AWV then they would keep on going with an elevated.

    I have no information to the contrary from the state, or governor.
    It is under or over, pick one.

  • The Wise Irish Pol

    actually, tpn, mcginn's showing great political chops. he's on message every time. as a result, he's moving the ball quite alot and throwing the pro DBT into disarray. The cost overrun issue now sweeps conversation…my god dave ross had domonic holden on today, on overruns…mcginn now mde the council step back and wait…and yes, have you noticed, succesful politicians always do reframe the question into their message.

    btw since mcginn's doing what he said he would he has the backing of his base and he's moving up in the polls, too. cuz he happens to be right — it's a bogus lying scam doubletalk lie to say there will be no overruns. indeed, now even the pro DBT people concede they can't get the leg to back off this provision or the anti seattle stance.

    as for david miller, didn't some one with that name, you know, lose?

    so you don't need to be lecturing mcginn on politics. he won. And he's moving the entire council to his p.o.v.

    good work mike and keep it up!

  • http://twitter.com/GlennF GlennF

    Now you're just being a troll. All of this has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere, and we're not going to trot it all out again in the comments.

    If you have strong evidence that the WSDOT in specific and superprojects in general come in on time and on budget (within 10%, say), then present it. That's not a “fear” or a “feeling.”

  • Barleywine

    GlennF:
    “and we're not going to trot it all out again in the comments.”

    Who are you to say?
    Master Baker is not a troll. He's a commenter. Who are you?

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Glenn, this conversation has been going full force for quite some time now. It's nice to see a Publicola staffer make a public stand, but you really do seem to be a little behind. As much as I hate to quote Nicole Brodeur, I think her “Lost” analogy was spot on.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    I'm going to paraphrase westside now:
    Spoken like someone who never has to drive to W Seattle or Ballard.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Ahhhhh, your sanity is a breath of fresh air.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    I just love the quote below. It is SO GW Bush/Karl Rove. Yes, Wise Irish Pol, McGinn's soundbite politics is moving the ball. But the chances of actually scoring are not looking much better.

    “I just think that the state actually saying they’ll take responsibility for cost overruns is better than them saying Seattle will pay,” McGinn said. “If we could get that statement of legislative intent that they intend to pay cost overruns, and get that memorialized in an agreement between the city and the state, I think we would be protected.”

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    The Seattle Peninsula is the worst place to build infrastructure.

    No more money should be allocated there.

    We need to build out the rest of the state.

    Seattle must go to the back of the line.

    The city is obsolete.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    Sometimes we talk on and on and on and never get the bird's eye view.

    Exhibit One: Seattle is a Peninsula:

    http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?FORM=MLOMAP&P…

    See how it is surrounded on three sides by water? It cannot grow. It will always require expensive “infrastructure” to get in and around. It is a terrible place to keep building commercially.

    It's somewhat fun as an amusement park, but it needs more free parking and suburban amenities before the typical middle class person would feel at home there.

    Exhibit Two: Go East Young Man

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=s&utm_campaign=en…

    Into the great wide open, under a sky so blue — look at the expanse of Washington. Look to Tri-Cities and it's fantastic bicycle network. Look to Yakima and low cost housing and fresh farms. There's a whole world out there made possible by the Internet. We can work and play in our entire state. And soon, there will be high speed rail to connect it all!

    Let's get out of Seattle and start building Washington!

  • archie

    Good point on the EIS, but one catch though: bids over or under budget still won't cover the unpredictable cost overrun issue. They will just solidify the costs of the “knowns”

  • archie

    Seattle's share of the costs for the surface option is a great deal more predictable than its share of the tunnel option.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    I'm being a troll? You provide zero facts and a loose grasp of the situation, and promote a scary “what if”.
    The Big Dig was not a deep bore tunnel.
    Brightwater was not estimated or project managed by WSDOT.

    Here is a link to the WSDOT Gray Book where they publish their performance to cost and schedule information.
    Check out how they have performed to their estimates.
    Check out their estimating methods.
    They question from the mayor revolves around cost overruns, that is directly related to project estimates and execution, not some other under performing group or person.

  • Politico Irlandes Muy Sagaz

    Drive by:

    this is the dance of politics, of social change. people don't just one day say “oh my god, you're right, and I'm wrong!” Instead they back off their extreme positions (they stop saying there will be no overruns); then they kind of implicityly admit there's a problem by pointing fingers at others (here, saying others put in the provision, or that its meaningless); then they defer action (here, postponing, hoping the new data relieves them of the responsibility to answer the question, who pays?) and later on after about ten more small changes in position they've sidled over into opposing the DBT. During this process the Wise Irish Pol and others who know what they're doing keep asking questions and keep hammering on the main point and keep the media in play and keep people like you on the defensive, resorting to feckless attacks like the rove canard — btw, if you don't see that rove was effective, you're hopeless naive and wedded to ineffectiveness — here the particularly lame attack that mcginn is using “soundbite politics”….riiiiight it's so stupid to ask, who pays? when this process started the DBT was a done deal, now you admit he's moving the ball. I'd say he has moved it from the 4th yard line to about his own 35….still a long way to go to get to surface transit…but he's MOVING THE BALL and jesus h. christ dude for him to be MOVING THE BALL DOWNFIELD after only half a year against the fairly united oppo of the power elite the dsa the concrete asphalt industry the planet killing auto wedded idiots and the feckless legislators,

    that's damn good job he's doing.

    oh and btw his positives have grown about 8 points.

  • Selma

    One more to support that you're a bit out of your depth here.

    Here's a primer on the big dig. It was WAY more than just a simple tunnel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_dig

  • Selma

    Of course, but how is that different than any other project ever? We can kill any project based on hypotheticals — a tactic that could easily be used against any marginally budgeted light rail plan that McGinn is supposed to eventually unveil.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    You know what my Jewish mother would say to you? “From your mouth to God's ears.” So, keep the faith, bro.

    I do think that Rove's tactics were remarkably successful. I also think they played to the lowest common denominator.

    And it always clangs kinda weirdly when folks like you mix this sudden concern for fiscal responsibility with your environmental politics. It just sounds awkward.

    But anyway, that was a really great pep talk. Way to support the team.

  • Selma

    But it's an easy point to make — no one likes paying for stuff! It's simplistic scare tactics and isn't actually producing anything valuable.

    McGinn doesn't want a tunnel. Got it. What then DOES he want? How does he proposed to get there? Eventually he's going to have to actually stand for something instead of against.

  • Selma

    You need line breaks.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Do you folks actually hear yourselves????? Your objections to the tunnel as not being the best solution gain traction with smart people. Your continued flogging of the cost overrun issue makes you sound like an idiot.

    We get it! When the contracts come in, they will be thoroughly vetted to see who is on the hook.

    YOUR RED HERRING IS DEAD. If you want to have an intelligent discussion here on Publicola, I suggest you move on to more pertinent issues.

    If, on the other hand, you want to keep trumpeting McGinn's cost overrun soundbites, so that you can get on KING-5 and in the Times, please refrain from boring us with it. Do it somewhere else.

  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')

    Again, that argument is LEAST likely to turn me against the tunnel, in favor of Surface/Transit. Convince me that Surface/Transit is better, from the transportation side, and then outline the funding for me. Reassure me that the State isn't just going to do an overhead rebuild.

    I'm not as terrified by uncertainty as you are, especially now that the carcass of dead horse of cost overruns lies decomposing in the town square.

  • ivan

    Wise Irish Pol, my ass. You're grading on style when people need substance. McGinn and his urbanazi fanboys are simply in denial that traffic has to roll.

  • http://www.joeszilagyi.com/ Joe Szilagyi

    Yes, screw the 600,000 people that live there. We suck.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    There are 563,374 that live there.

    And only one of them really sucks.

    And unfortunately, he's my Internet stalker.

  • tpn

    Will Seattle have to pay for all of it? Yes.

  • tpn

    It akes more to govern then masterful counter spin. You actually have to do something beside persuade us “nothings” to belive your hype.

  • Some Dude

    godwin wins again