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Cascade Encourages Members to Send Rasmussen Tums for Nickerson “Indigestion”

In a story in the Seattle Times earlier this week,  City Council transportation chair Tom Rasmussen said that the idea of putting four-lane Nickerson Street on a road diet—reducing it to two travel lanes and one turning lane to improve the road for bikes and pedestrians—gave him “indigestion.” In response, Cascade Bicycle Club, which supports the road diet, is encouraging its members to send Rasmussen rolls of Tums. (Tums for Tom, get it?)

Rasmussen has said that the city council might pass a budget proviso withholding money for the road diet, pass a recommendation against the plan, or eventually repeal the road diet if it slows traffic.

In a blog post, Cascade policy director David Hiller wrote that Rasmussen

is parroting those individuals who are trying to delay it until 2016 – after two-way Mercer and the Viaduct are completed – so the road could carry detoured traffic. That might be a valid argument – except for two very important points.

First, is that a three-lane roadway carries the same volume of traffic as a four-lane roadway in urban environments – so they’re preserving exactly ZERO additional capacity.

Second, as Transportation Chair, Rasmussen has seen all of the modeling and analysis showing the construction will have LITTLE TO NO IMPACT on the roadway, adding only 50 vehicles per hour at peak.

I asked Rasmussen yesterday why he didn’t support Nickerson, given that studies (and anecdotal accounts) have shown that road diets actually improve traffic flow, safety, and access for cyclists and pedestrians. He said he was impressed by the fact that both the 36th District Democrats and the 36th District Republicans oppose the road diet.

And, Rasmussen said, Nickerson is different from other roads that have been reduced to three lanes (like Fauntleroy in West Seattle), in that it’s “one of the few east-west routes that will exist during time the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement is going to be underway. … Each roadway is very different. The traffic they serve, the purposes they serve, are very different.”

The transportation committee will get a briefing from the city’s department of transportation on the Nickerson proposal on June 8.




  • Anc

    Why is it only the bicycle clubs that seem to be making a big fuss. The road diet is being sold as primarily a pedestrian improvement (which I am not calling into question), but so far I can't think of a single article I've read where a pedestrian group was quoted or one where a bike group wasn't.

    This inevitably leads to an us v them 'taking away car lanes to give to bikes' instead of an honest discussion about ALL the issues surrounding the road diet.

  • Anc

    Why is it only the bicycle clubs that appear to be making a big fuss? The road diet is being sold as primarily a pedestrian improvement (which I am not calling into question), but so far I can't think of a single article I've read where a pedestrian group was quoted or one where a bike group wasn't.

    This kind of reporting inevitably leads to an us v them 'taking away car lanes to give to bikes' instead of an honest discussion about ALL the issues surrounding the road diet.

  • kurisu

    Rasmussen is impressed by the 36th District Republicans?

  • kurisu

    Rasmussen is impressed by the 36th District Republicans?

  • herr_nichte

    bikes bikes bikes… there is more to running a city than bikes. but you sure wouldn't see any awareness of that from some factions

  • herr_nichte

    bikes bikes bikes… there is more to running a city than bikes. but you sure wouldn't see any awareness of that from some factions

  • http://www.charlesredell.com/blog Charles

    Speaking as a bike rider working with the Supporters of Nickerson St. Road Diet, this is an excellent point. While I am a bike commuter and the group started because of my interest in that side of things, I am as excited for that street to become more walkable because of this road diet. Any peds who want to join in our effort are welcome and encouraged to stop by and speak up with ideas or support from that community.
    http://groups.google.com/group/Nickerson-road-diet

  • http://www.joeszilagyi.com/ Joe Szilagyi

    I guess we should send him tea bags instead.

  • http://www.charlesredell.com/blog Charles

    Speaking as a bike rider working with the Supporters of Nickerson St. Road Diet, this is an excellent point. While I am a bike commuter and the group started because of my interest in that side of things, I am as excited for that street to become more walkable because of this road diet. Any peds who want to join in our effort are welcome and encouraged to stop by and speak up with ideas or support from that community.
    http://groups.google.com/group/Nickerson-road-diet

  • http://www.joeszilagyi.com/ Joe Szilagyi

    I guess we should send him tea bags instead.

  • Edog

    Get your bike out of my mouth! (/humor)

  • Edog

    Get your bike out of my mouth! (/humor)

  • http://www.charlesredell.com/blog Charles

    I wondered why my bike was so wet this morning. Thought it was the rain!

  • http://www.charlesredell.com/blog Charles

    I wondered why my bike was so wet this morning. Thought it was the rain!

  • Michael G

    At a Metropolitan Democratic Club meeting on Wednesday, Rasmussen emphasized that the main purpose of the road diet was pedestrian safety, not to create bike lanes or prevent people from driving. He pointed out that while earlier road diets seemed to be working well, he was skeptical since the Nickerson proposal was more substantial than the previous ones.

    It's a good point that one cannot look at the outcome on one road and assume that the outcome will be the same on all roads.

  • Michael G

    At a Metropolitan Democratic Club meeting on Wednesday, Rasmussen emphasized that the main purpose of the road diet was pedestrian safety, not to create bike lanes or prevent people from driving. He pointed out that while earlier road diets seemed to be working well, he was skeptical since the Nickerson proposal was more substantial than the previous ones.

    It's a good point that one cannot look at the outcome on one road and assume that the outcome will be the same on all roads.

  • JD

    For the record, the Feet First board of directors has officially endorsed the Nickerson Road diet. As currently configured, Nickerson isn't very easy or safe to cross for pedestrians trying to get to transit stops or to Seattle Pacific University. We clearly need to do something in this corridor to improve pedestrian safety. The change to three lanes will also improve safety for both bikes and cars (fewer rear end accidents for autos waiting to turn left).

    The SDOT engineers have studied this and have determined that the road will still work well for traffic — as has happened along other streets in this city where this conversion has been implemented. Even if these professionals are wrong and it does create a traffic nightmare (highly unlikely), we can still go back to the current four-lane configuration.

    James Davis, Feet First policy chair

  • JD

    For the record, the Feet First board of directors has officially endorsed the Nickerson Road diet. As currently configured, Nickerson isn't very easy or safe to cross for pedestrians trying to get to transit stops or to Seattle Pacific University. We clearly need to do something in this corridor to improve pedestrian safety. The change to three lanes will also improve safety for both bikes and cars (fewer rear end accidents for autos waiting to turn left).

    The SDOT engineers have studied this and have determined that the road will still work well for traffic — as has happened along other streets in this city where this conversion has been implemented. Even if these professionals are wrong and it does create a traffic nightmare (highly unlikely), we can still go back to the current four-lane configuration.

    James Davis, Feet First policy chair

  • Matt_the_Engineer

    No it isn't. Or at least any more than it's a good point that we can't know if a building will stand just structural engineering worked for all of those other buildings. Yes, it's possible the structural engineer will miss something – but is that a good enough reason to stop building buildings?

    Of course, the difference is that if you design a building wrong, people can die. Not so with a road diet. You just restripe.

  • Matt_the_Engineer

    No it isn't. Or at least any more than it's a good point that we can't know if a building will stand just structural engineering worked for all of those other buildings. Yes, it's possible the structural engineer will miss something – but is that a good enough reason to stop building buildings?

    Of course, the difference is that if you design a building wrong, people can die. Not so with a road diet. You just restripe.

  • giffy

    Because people hear “road diet” and think anti-car extremists.

    Sure people who pay attention to these things know that these kind of improvements make things better for all modes of transportation, but all most people hear is the condescending term road diet and that lanes are being removed for a few cyclists.

  • giffy

    Because people hear “road diet” and think anti-car extremists.

    Sure people who pay attention to these things know that these kind of improvements make things better for all modes of transportation, but all most people hear is the condescending term road diet and that lanes are being removed for a few cyclists.

  • Edog

    Clearly that your message has been drowned out by bicycles, indicates you need a more strident obnoxious group to advocate on your behalf.

  • Edog

    Clearly that your message has been drowned out by bicycles, indicates you need a more strident obnoxious group to advocate on your behalf.

  • mordant observer

    ifpedestrians can't cross safely why not put in a light?

    and is there actually any data showign the SPU pedestrians are getting hit?

    They don't drink so one would expect them to be hit less than, say, UW or WSU students.

  • mordant observer

    ifpedestrians can't cross safely why not put in a light?

    and is there actually any data showign the SPU pedestrians are getting hit?

    They don't drink so one would expect them to be hit less than, say, UW or WSU students.

  • morning

    SDOT reported an increase in rear-end accidents on Stone Way of 65%.

    The main crossing points for SPU are currently signalized.

    The road diets to 45th and Eastlake have not made them safe for pedestrians and they are both uber congested. Both get blocks long back-ups that didn't exist before the diets.

    I'd rather see the money spent on crosswalks that are really dangerous using the flashing lights in the street systems.

  • morning

    SDOT reported an increase in rear-end accidents on Stone Way of 65%.

    The main crossing points for SPU are currently signalized.

    The road diets to 45th and Eastlake have not made them safe for pedestrians and they are both uber congested. Both get blocks long back-ups that didn't exist before the diets.

    I'd rather see the money spent on crosswalks that are really dangerous using the flashing lights in the street systems.

  • kurisu

    To add to your analogy- even if the rechannelization slows people down by a few seconds, we are reasonably confident that far fewer people will be injured or killed, whether in cars or on foot.

  • kurisu

    To add to your analogy- even if the rechannelization slows people down by a few seconds, we are reasonably confident that far fewer people will be injured or killed, whether in cars or on foot.

  • MudBaby

    I'd like to see the money (even though it is a pittance compared to what is really needed) spent on building (a) a bike trail under 15th Avenue so cyclists don't have to backtrack to Dravus or use the Nickerson flyover, and (b) completing the freakin' “trail” (or whatever the hell SDOT calls it) along the south side of the Ship Canal.

    I realize these projects would be asking for way too much in Seattle, The City That Doesn't Work.

  • MudBaby

    I'd like to see the money (even though it is a pittance compared to what is really needed) spent on building (a) a bike trail under 15th Avenue so cyclists don't have to backtrack to Dravus or use the Nickerson flyover, and (b) completing the freakin' “trail” (or whatever the hell SDOT calls it) along the south side of the Ship Canal.

    I realize these projects would be asking for way too much in Seattle, The City That Doesn't Work.

  • Lish

    Blocks long back-ups did exist on both 45th and Eastlake before the road diets. The road diet didn't appear to make them worse. I agree that more needs to be done for pedestrian safety. Why not both flashing lights and the road diet?

  • Lish

    Blocks long back-ups did exist on both 45th and Eastlake before the road diets. The road diet didn't appear to make them worse. I agree that more needs to be done for pedestrian safety. Why not both flashing lights and the road diet?

  • JD

    What you conveniently neglect to mention “morning” is that this same study found that overall accidents declined 14%, injury accidents declined 33%, and pedestrian accidents went down 80% (from five to one).

    I've walked Nickerson before and have taken note of many crossing locations that are unsignalized.

    James Davis

  • JD

    What you conveniently neglect to mention “morning” is that this same study found that overall accidents declined 14%, injury accidents declined 33%, and pedestrian accidents went down 80% (from five to one).

    I've walked Nickerson before and have taken note of many crossing locations that are unsignalized.

    James Davis

  • Anc

    Thanks James, and keep up the good work. My comment was directed more at the media than groups though. I just wish more pedestrian groups were included in reporting on this pedestrian safety prompted improvement.

  • Anc

    Thanks James, and keep up the good work. My comment was directed more at the media than groups though. I just wish more pedestrian groups were included in reporting on this pedestrian safety prompted improvement.

  • Anc

    Yeah, but incidents of errant golf balls hitting left front quarter panels surged ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO PERCENT!!!!

    It was obviously a failure as far as safety goes.

  • Anc

    Yeah, but incidents of errant golf balls hitting left front quarter panels surged ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO PERCENT!!!!

    It was obviously a failure as far as safety goes.

  • kurisu

    It's foot dragging by the RR that's slowed down that trail.

  • kurisu

    It's foot dragging by the RR that's slowed down that trail.

  • JD

    Understood Anc, and thanks. And we'll make sure to look into those errant golf balls.

  • JD

    Understood Anc, and thanks. And we'll make sure to look into those errant golf balls.

  • louploupontheroad

    Kuriso is correct; BNSF RR needs to be asked to finish its rail move to open up the alignment for the City's already designed connection under the south end of Ballard Bridge.

    36th District resolution on Nickerson Road diet had completion of that trail link added as a request to the City.

  • louploupontheroad

    Kuriso is correct; BNSF RR needs to be asked to finish its rail move to open up the alignment for the City's already designed connection under the south end of Ballard Bridge.

    36th District resolution on Nickerson Road diet had completion of that trail link added as a request to the City.

  • morning

    The road diets did make them worse. Eastlake never used to back up from Lynn all the way to Hamlin but now it does. Ask the people that on Yale Terrace East or Yale. 45th didn't back up from Meridian to the Freeway but now it does.

    Why not do them both? Scarce resources. I've been asking for more of the flashing crosswalks for years. I think we have less than 10 in Seattle.

  • morning

    The road diets did make them worse. Eastlake never used to back up from Lynn all the way to Hamlin but now it does. Ask the people that on Yale Terrace East or Yale. 45th didn't back up from Meridian to the Freeway but now it does.

    Why not do them both? Scarce resources. I've been asking for more of the flashing crosswalks for years. I think we have less than 10 in Seattle.

  • Ben Demboski

    Well, I think there's an important subtlety here. Michael G and Rasmussen are right — you can't just look at one outcome and automatically assume that another case will produce the same outcome. On the other hand, you can't automatically assume that it *won't* produce the same outcome.

    The key point is in what ways the two cases are similar and in what ways are they dissimilar, and what relevance that has to the likely outcome. There are a lot of obvious and relevant ways in which Stone Way (pre-diet) and Nickerson are similar — 4 lanes, pedestrian safety concerns, relatively high volume of cars exceeding speed limit, etc.

    In the absence of any (or as many) relevant dissimilarities, the best conclusion to draw is that Nickerson's outcome is likely to be similar to Stone Way's.

    So, Michael G (or Tom Rasmussen or anybody else who questions the relevance of Stone Way), what is it that makes Nickerson and Stone Way relevantly dissimilar?

  • Ben Demboski

    Well, I think there's an important subtlety here. Michael G and Rasmussen are right — you can't just look at one outcome and automatically assume that another case will produce the same outcome. On the other hand, you can't automatically assume that it *won't* produce the same outcome.

    The key point is in what ways the two cases are similar and in what ways are they dissimilar, and what relevance that has to the likely outcome. There are a lot of obvious and relevant ways in which Stone Way (pre-diet) and Nickerson are similar — 4 lanes, pedestrian safety concerns, relatively high volume of cars exceeding speed limit, etc.

    In the absence of any (or as many) relevant dissimilarities, the best conclusion to draw is that Nickerson's outcome is likely to be similar to Stone Way's.

    So, Michael G (or Tom Rasmussen or anybody else who questions the relevance of Stone Way), what is it that makes Nickerson and Stone Way relevantly dissimilar?

  • morning

    You called out the reduced rear-end collisions, which wasn't true for the study of Stone.

    We clearly need to do something in this corridor to improve pedestrian safety..

    Sorry, but the statistics just don't bear out that statement. We have less safe streets and intersections that should be ahead of this street.
    Take the time to go to SDOT's pedestrian collision map.

  • morning

    You called out the reduced rear-end collisions, which wasn't true for the study of Stone.

    We clearly need to do something in this corridor to improve pedestrian safety..

    Sorry, but the statistics just don't bear out that statement. We have less safe streets and intersections that should be ahead of this street.
    Take the time to go to SDOT's pedestrian collision map.

  • morning

    Seattle 4th safest city for Peds and Bikes – 5 spots ahead of Portland

    http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue18/p72-73.html

    Seattle worst city for congestion (more pollution)

    http://www.teleatlas.com/WhyTeleAtlas/Pressroom…

  • morning

    Seattle 4th safest city for Peds and Bikes – 5 spots ahead of Portland

    http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue18/p72-73.html

    Seattle worst city for congestion (more pollution)

    http://www.teleatlas.com/WhyTeleAtlas/Pressroom…

  • kurisu

    That's a very poor measurement. Seattlites have a better than average trip time to work, according to INRIX.

  • kurisu

    That's a very poor measurement. Seattlites have a better than average trip time to work, according to INRIX.

  • morning

    TomTom serves real customers that make a living using their products. Finding the best routes has caused TomTom to build a real data base of arterials and how congested they are.

    Why would TomTom skew results against Seattle?

    This the methodology: The results were calculated using data from Speed Profiles, the historical speed database from TomTom map business unit Tele Atlas that helps personal and professional fleet drivers using portable, in car or smartphone navigation systems avoid trouble spots and save time and money.

    Speed Profiles aggregates the actual speeds that millions of anonymous, GPS-enabled drivers have traveled over the last two years. This community of drivers is the largest GPS data collection community in the world. It provides actual average speeds for every five minutes of the day on roads across the full network to help show a far more accurate view of historic traffic. In contrast, traditional historical traffic systems use random sampling from a limited number of road sensors on primary roads or from fleet vehicle traces..

  • morning

    TomTom serves real customers that make a living using their products. Finding the best routes has caused TomTom to build a real data base of arterials and how congested they are.

    Why would TomTom skew results against Seattle?

    This the methodology: The results were calculated using data from Speed Profiles, the historical speed database from TomTom map business unit Tele Atlas that helps personal and professional fleet drivers using portable, in car or smartphone navigation systems avoid trouble spots and save time and money.

    Speed Profiles aggregates the actual speeds that millions of anonymous, GPS-enabled drivers have traveled over the last two years. This community of drivers is the largest GPS data collection community in the world. It provides actual average speeds for every five minutes of the day on roads across the full network to help show a far more accurate view of historic traffic. In contrast, traditional historical traffic systems use random sampling from a limited number of road sensors on primary roads or from fleet vehicle traces..

  • morning

    That's a very poor measurement. Seattlites have a better than average trip time to work, according to INRIX..

    We are discussing intra-city streets not highways. INRIX measures highways.

    From the INRIX report – By analyzing traffic on major highways in the nation’s 100 largest metropolitan areas, the Scorecard provides both a glimpse into the health of our economy as well as a comprehensive snapshot into the intractable issues of urban traffic congestion. According to the report, the top 10 most congested cities in 2009 were:

    1. Los Angeles, Calif.

    2. New York, N.Y.

    3. Chicago, Ill.

    4. Washington, D.C. (up from 6th in 2008)

    5. Dallas, Texas

    6. Houston, Texas (down from 4th in 2008)

    7. San Francisco, Calif.

    8. Boston, Mass.

    9. Seattle, Wash.

  • morning

    That's a very poor measurement. Seattlites have a better than average trip time to work, according to INRIX..

    We are discussing intra-city streets not highways. INRIX measures highways.

    From the INRIX report – By analyzing traffic on major highways in the nation’s 100 largest metropolitan areas, the Scorecard provides both a glimpse into the health of our economy as well as a comprehensive snapshot into the intractable issues of urban traffic congestion. According to the report, the top 10 most congested cities in 2009 were:

    1. Los Angeles, Calif.

    2. New York, N.Y.

    3. Chicago, Ill.

    4. Washington, D.C. (up from 6th in 2008)

    5. Dallas, Texas

    6. Houston, Texas (down from 4th in 2008)

    7. San Francisco, Calif.

    8. Boston, Mass.

    9. Seattle, Wash.

  • JD

    All I'm saying, “morning,” is to stop using statistics selectively, it's very misleading. The fact remains these streets are demonstably safer after conversion.

    And yes, there are lots of places in this city that need pedestrian safety improvements, but this is a low cost measure that doesn't preclude doing things elsewhere.

  • JD

    All I'm saying, “morning,” is to stop using statistics selectively, it's very misleading. The fact remains these streets are demonstably safer after conversion.

    And yes, there are lots of places in this city that need pedestrian safety improvements, but this is a low cost measure that doesn't preclude doing things elsewhere.

  • Jay

    When was Eastlake put on a road diet? From Fairview to the bridge it's been 2 lanes plus a turn lane and parking as long as I can remember. The stretch between Mercer and Fairview was put on a diet to put in bike lanes, but that hasn't caused much of a problem.

  • Jay

    When was Eastlake put on a road diet? From Fairview to the bridge it's been 2 lanes plus a turn lane and parking as long as I can remember. The stretch between Mercer and Fairview was put on a diet to put in bike lanes, but that hasn't caused much of a problem.

  • Barleywine

    I didn't even know there was a pedestrian group here, in a political sense. Very good thing: “Today we’re a fast-growing organization with a core of staff, board, members and volunteers supporting our strategic agenda.”

    Does anyone know of a non-political walking group in Seattle?
    One along the lines of Colin Fletcher (RIP)? Or Peter Jenkins?

    I know the new focus is on politics, but that would be really good to find.

  • Barleywine

    I didn't even know there was a pedestrian group here, in a political sense. Very good thing: “Today we’re a fast-growing organization with a core of staff, board, members and volunteers supporting our strategic agenda.”

    Does anyone know of a non-political walking group in Seattle?
    One along the lines of Colin Fletcher (RIP)? Or Peter Jenkins?

    I know the new focus is on politics, but that would be really good to find.

  • John

    Because lights cost a lot more money, and there's no good reason to oppose the road diet, which costs a lot less.

  • John

    Because lights cost a lot more money, and there's no good reason to oppose the road diet, which costs a lot less.

  • http://feetfirst.info/ JD

    There's a group called the American Volksports Association, and their website has links to a bunch of local organizations all over the country, including many in this state, and two in Seattle itself:

    http://www.ava.org/avaclub/avaclub.htm

    I don't think they're very political; they just like to walk.

  • http://feetfirst.info/ JD

    There's a group called the American Volksports Association, and their website has links to a bunch of local organizations all over the country, including many in this state, and two in Seattle itself:

    http://www.ava.org/avaclub/avaclub.htm

    I don't think they're very political; they just like to walk.

  • Barleywine

    Thanks JD,

    I think I'll take that step.

  • Barleywine

    Thanks JD,

    I think I'll take that step.

  • Ben Demboski

    I remember 45th being pretty regularly backed up from Meridian to Dicks, and often all the way to the freeway, back in the late 80s…are you talking about a time before then? If so, I'm not sure that proves your point because so much else has changed in the last 25+ years.

  • Ben Demboski

    I remember 45th being pretty regularly backed up from Meridian to Dicks, and often all the way to the freeway, back in the late 80s…are you talking about a time before then? If so, I'm not sure that proves your point because so much else has changed in the last 25+ years.

  • Ben Demboski

    I don't see how city-wide statistics are relevant to this single road. It's one road in a very big city, and its safety and/or congestion could change drastically without having a noticeable effect on the overall statistics for Seattle. So our whole city is relatively safe. Good for us. That aggregate statistic doesn't help people that actually use Nickerson.

  • Ben Demboski

    I don't see how city-wide statistics are relevant to this single road. It's one road in a very big city, and its safety and/or congestion could change drastically without having a noticeable effect on the overall statistics for Seattle. So our whole city is relatively safe. Good for us. That aggregate statistic doesn't help people that actually use Nickerson.

  • http://www.cascade.org/advocacy DavidHIller

    The Tom Tom analysis is predicated on vehicle delay or speed, as is the tired and increasingly irrelevant TTI survey.

    Vehicle delay, as was pointed out in the University of Minnesota Center for Transportation Studies report — “Asking the Right Questions about Transportation and Land Use”, fails to get to the point. They state, “Current travel measures [such as vehicle delay] are informative but are of limited use in helping us understand what is happening in specific locations and across a spectrum of different transportation modes.”

    The study, which you can read here: http://www.cts.umn.edu/access-study/publication… , offers evidence that increasing travel delay for motorists doesn't correlate to loss of access to a suite of necessary destinations. Moreover, they suggest that mean-time access to destinations is a far better metric, in part due to the fact that it's mode neutral — something that can't be said for vehicle delay.

    Regards,
    David Hiller
    Advocacy Director
    Cascade Bicycle Club

  • http://www.cascade.org/advocacy DavidHIller

    The Tom Tom analysis is predicated on vehicle delay or speed, as is the tired and increasingly irrelevant TTI survey.

    Vehicle delay, as was pointed out in the University of Minnesota Center for Transportation Studies report — “Asking the Right Questions about Transportation and Land Use”, fails to get to the point. They state, “Current travel measures [such as vehicle delay] are informative but are of limited use in helping us understand what is happening in specific locations and across a spectrum of different transportation modes.”

    The study, which you can read here: http://www.cts.umn.edu/access-study/publication… , offers evidence that increasing travel delay for motorists doesn't correlate to loss of access to a suite of necessary destinations. Moreover, they suggest that mean-time access to destinations is a far better metric, in part due to the fact that it's mode neutral — something that can't be said for vehicle delay.

    Regards,
    David Hiller
    Advocacy Director
    Cascade Bicycle Club

  • JD

    That is odd that rear-end crashes went up on Stone. I found another case study for a similar conversion on Baxter Street in Athens-Clarke County, Georgia where rear-end crashes declined 45%.

  • JD

    That is odd that rear-end crashes went up on Stone. I found another case study for a similar conversion on Baxter Street in Athens-Clarke County, Georgia where rear-end crashes declined 45%.

  • David

    morning, you keep bringing up this same study even though people have cited why they have problems with it and bring better studies to the table. Your point is old and worn.

  • David

    morning, you keep bringing up this same study even though people have cited why they have problems with it and bring better studies to the table. Your point is old and worn.

  • Soapboxin'

    The greatest thing I've heard Peter Hahn say (really, the first sign of character he has shown publicly as head of SDOT), was when he said, “It's just paint.” If it doesn't work, they can change it back.
    -
    Of course, they won't.
    -
    When I'm in my car, road diets are not my favorite thing. It seems like they're slowing down every quick way to get around town. But that's the way the wind blows these days. You're made to feel like a jerk if you argue with it, so I just accept it. It is the right thing for the common good, and we can all live with it.

  • Soapboxin'

    The greatest thing I've heard Peter Hahn say (really, the first sign of character he has shown publicly as head of SDOT), was when he said, “It's just paint.” If it doesn't work, they can change it back.
    -
    Of course, they won't.
    -
    When I'm in my car, road diets are not my favorite thing. It seems like they're slowing down every quick way to get around town. But that's the way the wind blows these days. You're made to feel like a jerk if you argue with it, so I just accept it. It is the right thing for the common good, and we can all live with it.

  • Mr. X

    I don't think it's the right thing for the common good (unless one defines the common good as slowing down everyone else for the benefit of 3% of commuters in the vain hope that you'll turn that into 10% of commuters), and I'll keep right on bitching about it even as I learn to live with it, thank you very much.

  • Mr. X

    I don't think it's the right thing for the common good (unless one defines the common good as slowing down everyone else for the benefit of 3% of commuters in the vain hope that you'll turn that into 10% of commuters), and I'll keep right on bitching about it even as I learn to live with it, thank you very much.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    WA state is 16th. Seattle is 4th. Yet somehow WA state emerged as number one (3rd time in a row) as America's most bicycle friendly city.

    Go figure…

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    WA state is 16th. Seattle is 4th. Yet somehow WA state emerged as number one (3rd time in a row) as America's most bicycle friendly city.

    Go figure…

  • reality based commute

    Streets under 25,000 vehicles work great for road diets. Nickerson carries only 17,000 and is rarely congested in any way. The only reason some people don't want road diets is because they want to speed.

    Common sense will tell you why a three lane configuration is better than a four-lane.

    –turns happen outside of moving traffic lanes. This means smoother traffic flow and less rear end accidents
    –drivers are not encouraged to be lane jockeys trying to weave through traffic
    –pedestrians, especially the elderly, have a much safer crossing than one with no center turn lane
    –there is space for bike lanes in the same ROW
    –the calmer flow of traffic and the visual appeal of the three lane alignment is better for urban design and neighborhoods.

    Forget the stats, just use your head. In this day and age here in dense Seattle we can't just have streets serve cars alone. They should also be good for peds, bikes, and neighborhoods.

  • reality based commute

    Streets under 25,000 vehicles work great for road diets. Nickerson carries only 17,000 and is rarely congested in any way. The only reason some people don't want road diets is because they want to speed.

    Common sense will tell you why a three lane configuration is better than a four-lane.

    –turns happen outside of moving traffic lanes. This means smoother traffic flow and less rear end accidents
    –drivers are not encouraged to be lane jockeys trying to weave through traffic
    –pedestrians, especially the elderly, have a much safer crossing than one with no center turn lane
    –there is space for bike lanes in the same ROW
    –the calmer flow of traffic and the visual appeal of the three lane alignment is better for urban design and neighborhoods.

    Forget the stats, just use your head. In this day and age here in dense Seattle we can't just have streets serve cars alone. They should also be good for peds, bikes, and neighborhoods.

  • Mr. X

    Absolute horsepucky – streets that are subject to large peak flows do NOT benefit from “road diets”. A street like Fauntleroy may only have an average flow of 17k/day, but when the ferry lands it matters rather a lot whether you have 4 lanes available rather than three.

    There's no turning problem “solved” by so-called “road diets” that left turn arrows on currently configured arterials wouldn't solve better, and illuminated raised crosswalks will be a lot better for pedestrians than standing in a two-way center turn lane ever could be.

    Want to try and walk across the Champs-Elysees? Wait for the light.

  • Mr. X

    Absolute horsepucky – streets that are subject to large peak flows do NOT benefit from “road diets”. A street like Fauntleroy may only have an average flow of 17k/day, but when the ferry lands it matters rather a lot whether you have 4 lanes available rather than three.

    There's no turning problem “solved” by so-called “road diets” that left turn arrows on currently configured arterials wouldn't solve better, and illuminated raised crosswalks will be a lot better for pedestrians than standing in a two-way center turn lane ever could be.

    Want to try and walk across the Champs-Elysees? Wait for the light.

  • John

    what did he mean “more substantial”?

  • John

    what did he mean “more substantial”?

  • John

    Feet First is pretty much the only pedestrian advocacy group in Seattle.

  • John

    Feet First is pretty much the only pedestrian advocacy group in Seattle.

  • John

    They're expensive and hard to maintain, and once they lose the “wow” factor they lose a lot of their utility as well.

  • John

    They're expensive and hard to maintain, and once they lose the “wow” factor they lose a lot of their utility as well.

  • morning

    I don't believe that people have given any solid fact based reason why the TomTom study doesn't give us better information about city streets than other highway based studies.

    The only problem they with it is the result.

  • morning

    I don't believe that people have given any solid fact based reason why the TomTom study doesn't give us better information about city streets than other highway based studies.

    The only problem they with it is the result.

  • morning

    The point is that what SDOT has been doing has resulted in the slowest most congested streets in the country. No one change on any street will result in a city wide slowdown, but the cumulative effect has been to create widespread congestion.

  • morning

    The point is that what SDOT has been doing has resulted in the slowest most congested streets in the country. No one change on any street will result in a city wide slowdown, but the cumulative effect has been to create widespread congestion.

  • morning

    Well, David, we have at least one point of agreement, the TTI analysis is not the best. In fact, it doesn't measure in-city street congestion at all well. I'd like more information on the TomTom study, but it seems to do a much better job on measuring in-city congestion.

    As for a loss of access to a suite of necessary destinations , first off, does anybody actually talk or think like that? Suite of destinations that are necessary sounds like places in a hospital or some line out of a central planning government authority manual. Are you trying to give J. B. a heart attack? .

    Who determines if destinations are necessary? I like the Copacabana for lunch on a nice day. It's not necessary that I go there, but it gives me pleasure.

    Mean-time access to destinations, what does that mean? Is there a study comparing mean-time access for various cities? I confess I haven't gone to the link yet, but I will, promise.

    Since about 85% or more of Seattle residents depend on the street to move them in cars and buses I would say that street congestion remains a very important metric. In fact, that number is low because even bikers put their bikes on buses and cars. People that walk for their commute use buses for other trips.

    Cheers,
    morning

  • morning

    Well, David, we have at least one point of agreement, the TTI analysis is not the best. In fact, it doesn't measure in-city street congestion at all well. I'd like more information on the TomTom study, but it seems to do a much better job on measuring in-city congestion.

    As for a loss of access to a suite of necessary destinations , first off, does anybody actually talk or think like that? Suite of destinations that are necessary sounds like places in a hospital or some line out of a central planning government authority manual. Are you trying to give J. B. a heart attack? .

    Who determines if destinations are necessary? I like the Copacabana for lunch on a nice day. It's not necessary that I go there, but it gives me pleasure.

    Mean-time access to destinations, what does that mean? Is there a study comparing mean-time access for various cities? I confess I haven't gone to the link yet, but I will, promise.

    Since about 85% or more of Seattle residents depend on the street to move them in cars and buses I would say that street congestion remains a very important metric. In fact, that number is low because even bikers put their bikes on buses and cars. People that walk for their commute use buses for other trips.

    Cheers,
    morning

  • morning

    What Rasmussen said was that Seattle has few East-West streets or that East-West is a bigger problem in Seattle so a road diet on Nickerson is potentially more problematic. He also said that he wanted to wait for the Mercer work to be done.

    I think, he is thinking that at some point a reduction in lane capacity will be the straw that causes a quantum jump in congestion. With Mercer under construction he doesn't see why Nickerson needs to be dieted now.

  • morning

    What Rasmussen said was that Seattle has few East-West streets or that East-West is a bigger problem in Seattle so a road diet on Nickerson is potentially more problematic. He also said that he wanted to wait for the Mercer work to be done.

    I think, he is thinking that at some point a reduction in lane capacity will be the straw that causes a quantum jump in congestion. With Mercer under construction he doesn't see why Nickerson needs to be dieted now.

  • morning

    45th was changed in 1972 – at the time the traffic immediately became congested and people moved to 50th – you can believe or not. 45th was a commercial center well before the diet. Many here seem to think that Seattle was the wild west before you got here, but really we had grocery stores, drive-ins, even dentists and doctors.

    Eastlake was much later, maybe 1995.

  • morning

    45th was changed in 1972 – at the time the traffic immediately became congested and people moved to 50th – you can believe or not. 45th was a commercial center well before the diet. Many here seem to think that Seattle was the wild west before you got here, but really we had grocery stores, drive-ins, even dentists and doctors.

    Eastlake was much later, maybe 1995.

  • Soapboxin'

    “The only reason some people don't want road diets is because they want to speed.”
    -
    Allow me to act as a spokesperson for those of us, almost all non-natives, who a) actually want to get to their destination promptly, b) don't appreciate being blocked at every turn by slow-footed natives, and c) aren't scared of operating a moving vehicle. It's not that we want to speed. It's that you're driving ridiculously fucking slowly, and we relish the opportunity to pass you and peacefully go about our business.
    -
    15th Ave W, just around the corner from Nickerson, is a perfect example. I really enjoyed having the extra lane, and I was sad to see it go. At the same time, has my quality of life diminished since the road diet? Absolutely not.
    -
    My point: cyclists, pedestrians, and even drivers are all human beings. Name-calling and polarizing arguments are more of a problem than road diets. That is truly what holds Seattle back from timely resolution of its transportation problems.

  • Soapboxin'

    “The only reason some people don't want road diets is because they want to speed.”
    -
    Allow me to act as a spokesperson for those of us, almost all non-natives, who a) actually want to get to their destination promptly, b) don't appreciate being blocked at every turn by slow-footed natives, and c) aren't scared of operating a moving vehicle. It's not that we want to speed. It's that you're driving ridiculously fucking slowly, and we relish the opportunity to pass you and peacefully go about our business.
    -
    15th Ave W, just around the corner from Nickerson, is a perfect example. I really enjoyed having the extra lane, and I was sad to see it go. At the same time, has my quality of life diminished since the road diet? Absolutely not.
    -
    My point: cyclists, pedestrians, and even drivers are all human beings. Name-calling and polarizing arguments are more of a problem than road diets. That is truly what holds Seattle back from timely resolution of its transportation problems.

  • Ben Demboski

    And why are his assertions to be trusted more than the study that SDOT commissioned that indicated that the impact on traffic would be pretty minimal?

  • Ben Demboski

    And why are his assertions to be trusted more than the study that SDOT commissioned that indicated that the impact on traffic would be pretty minimal?

  • NordicGal

    It may well be that the road diet has virtually no impact on car and truck traffic and is really great for people on bikes (like me) and people on foot.

    But why escalate conflict? What's the point of the Cascade Club alienating even more people. Someone – all too often – it feels like Cascade is more interested in alienating people than winning people over. Given all the good things Rasmussen has done, and will be doing, for people on bikes over the next few years, why get all war-like?

    Fun. Maybe. But ultimately dumb, and dumber. Cascade might want to reflect on why it seems incapable of passing easy bills for people on bikes in the state legislature.

    There are enough conflicts between bikes and other traffic. That's natural. People on bikes might be better served by advocacy that doesn't alienate and is outcome oriented, as opposed to fight oriented.

    That's my take anyway. Cascade always seems to play to a radical base, instead of doing the necessary work of growing allies.

  • NordicGal

    It may well be that the road diet has virtually no impact on car and truck traffic and is really great for people on bikes (like me) and people on foot.

    But why escalate conflict? What's the point of the Cascade Club alienating even more people. Someone – all too often – it feels like Cascade is more interested in alienating people than winning people over. Given all the good things Rasmussen has done, and will be doing, for people on bikes over the next few years, why get all war-like?

    Fun. Maybe. But ultimately dumb, and dumber. Cascade might want to reflect on why it seems incapable of passing easy bills for people on bikes in the state legislature.

    There are enough conflicts between bikes and other traffic. That's natural. People on bikes might be better served by advocacy that doesn't alienate and is outcome oriented, as opposed to fight oriented.

    That's my take anyway. Cascade always seems to play to a radical base, instead of doing the necessary work of growing allies.

  • Ben Demboski

    Perhaps you are right in identifying SDOT as the culprit for our congestion, but I'm not certain. It's a pretty complex issue and there are a number of factors that make Seattle unique — primarily our geographical constraints (hills and water).

    However, even if we buy that SDOT's policies are responsible for our city being so congested, it's a huge and unsubstantiated leap to claim that the road diets specifically have a noticeable impact. By any metric they make up a tiny fraction of our overall transportation policy, and the only non-anecdotal evidence that I'm aware of that quantifies their direct impact on congestion (Stone Way) shows little to none.

    I'm not asserting that road diets aren't making congestion worse. I'm asserting that we don't have any reliable evidence that they *are* making it worse, so given the clear evidence that they improve safety, we should continue with them, and also monitor the results like we have been on Stone Way. If they aren't what we want, we can always repaint.

  • Ben Demboski

    Perhaps you are right in identifying SDOT as the culprit for our congestion, but I'm not certain. It's a pretty complex issue and there are a number of factors that make Seattle unique — primarily our geographical constraints (hills and water).

    However, even if we buy that SDOT's policies are responsible for our city being so congested, it's a huge and unsubstantiated leap to claim that the road diets specifically have a noticeable impact. By any metric they make up a tiny fraction of our overall transportation policy, and the only non-anecdotal evidence that I'm aware of that quantifies their direct impact on congestion (Stone Way) shows little to none.

    I'm not asserting that road diets aren't making congestion worse. I'm asserting that we don't have any reliable evidence that they *are* making it worse, so given the clear evidence that they improve safety, we should continue with them, and also monitor the results like we have been on Stone Way. If they aren't what we want, we can always repaint.

  • doug in seattle

    Fewer people being hurt and killed on our streets is a common good.

  • doug in seattle

    Fewer people being hurt and killed on our streets is a common good.

  • morning

    Ben I was just the messenger. Btw SDOT didn't do the study, it was done by a group called Heffron, which seems to have strong anti-car biases.

  • morning

    Ben I was just the messenger. Btw SDOT didn't do the study, it was done by a group called Heffron, which seems to have strong anti-car biases.

  • forevergreen

    Really? Cascade's the out of proportion aggressor here? Where's your criticism of the angry, nonsense-spouting cranks who're trying to derail a project that will MAKE DRIVERS SAFER?

    Seems to me the bike folks are trying to get Rasmussen to make decisions based on facts, rather than being cowed into leaving roads less-safe by a bunch of roadraged nimby's. But maybe you missed the overheated, near-violent crap being tossed around, which seems to have scared Tom.

    Perhaps you think those tactics are fine for the car-heads, but a detailed, measured response from an advocacy group isn't?

    And your Olympia comments are pure garbage. Some of us spend a lot of time down there and have to watch a lot of good bills that should be easy die. The Safe Medicine Return bill died two-years in a row… so I suppose you'll attack Margaret Shield for failing to suck up to hard enough.

  • forevergreen

    Really? Cascade's the out of proportion aggressor here? Where's your criticism of the angry, nonsense-spouting cranks who're trying to derail a project that will MAKE DRIVERS SAFER?

    Seems to me the bike folks are trying to get Rasmussen to make decisions based on facts, rather than being cowed into leaving roads less-safe by a bunch of roadraged nimby's. But maybe you missed the overheated, near-violent crap being tossed around, which seems to have scared Tom.

    Perhaps you think those tactics are fine for the car-heads, but a detailed, measured response from an advocacy group isn't?

    And your Olympia comments are pure garbage. Some of us spend a lot of time down there and have to watch a lot of good bills that should be easy die. The Safe Medicine Return bill died two-years in a row… so I suppose you'll attack Margaret Shield for failing to suck up to hard enough.

  • reality based commute

    There is no peak flow on Nickerson to speak of other than rush hour which is hardly busy. The ferry fears on Fauntleroy have not materialized. I live out there and the street still works well at all times. Turns are safer, peds are safer (especially our kids who play soccer at Fairmount Park), and the street looks better.

    Mr. X, I drive a car too and I like to get places quickly. But I am not willing to sacrifice safety for speed. You are.

  • reality based commute

    There is no peak flow on Nickerson to speak of other than rush hour which is hardly busy. The ferry fears on Fauntleroy have not materialized. I live out there and the street still works well at all times. Turns are safer, peds are safer (especially our kids who play soccer at Fairmount Park), and the street looks better.

    Mr. X, I drive a car too and I like to get places quickly. But I am not willing to sacrifice safety for speed. You are.

  • reality based commute

    I didn't name call. Road diets in the right places move cars easily at the speed limit. You only have a problem if you want to go faster.

    And if Grandpa is going 20 you have two choices–lay on the horn, or chill out for a minute.

  • reality based commute

    I didn't name call. Road diets in the right places move cars easily at the speed limit. You only have a problem if you want to go faster.

    And if Grandpa is going 20 you have two choices–lay on the horn, or chill out for a minute.

  • Punk Ass Bitch

    Stone Way runs north south while Nickerson runs east west. We have no information that indicates a road diet will work on east west roads.

  • Punk Ass Bitch

    Stone Way runs north south while Nickerson runs east west. We have no information that indicates a road diet will work on east west roads.

  • eddiew

    there are several modes at stake in the Nickerson Street diet: pedestrians, general purpose traffic, cyclists, and transit. the three lane profile would slow traffic (e.g., gp, freight, and transit), provide safer crossings for peds, and safer paths for cyclists. slower speeds are safer. if the main issue were the bike lanes, SDOT could remove the parallel parking and put bike lanes in their place. the diet only extends between Warren Avenue North and 13th Avenue West, so there will four lanes near the bridges. Two of the three places with ped issues are where four lanes will remain. yes, 3rd Avenue West already has a signal.

    Seattle imposed diets on several major transit arterials decades ago: North 45th Street, Broadway, and California Avenue SW. In the last 15 years they have added several more (e.g., Madison Steet, Phinney-Greenwood Avenue North, 24th Avenue NW, Delridge Avenue SW, Eastlake Avenue East, Stone Way North). At some point, SDOT should take away parallel parking, so that transit is not slowed by the diets. each arterial should be considered separately, given its own distribution of modes and volumes.

  • eddiew

    there are several modes at stake in the Nickerson Street diet: pedestrians, general purpose traffic, cyclists, and transit. the three lane profile would slow traffic (e.g., gp, freight, and transit), provide safer crossings for peds, and safer paths for cyclists. slower speeds are safer. if the main issue were the bike lanes, SDOT could remove the parallel parking and put bike lanes in their place. the diet only extends between Warren Avenue North and 13th Avenue West, so there will four lanes near the bridges. Two of the three places with ped issues are where four lanes will remain. yes, 3rd Avenue West already has a signal.

    Seattle imposed diets on several major transit arterials decades ago: North 45th Street, Broadway, and California Avenue SW. In the last 15 years they have added several more (e.g., Madison Steet, Phinney-Greenwood Avenue North, 24th Avenue NW, Delridge Avenue SW, Eastlake Avenue East, Stone Way North). At some point, SDOT should take away parallel parking, so that transit is not slowed by the diets. each arterial should be considered separately, given its own distribution of modes and volumes.

  • IQuiz

    So what are you saying? We should convert 45th back to four lanes? You'd have to take out all the onstreet parking on the road, which would kill all those storefront businesses. Wallingford business center would be ruined. No thanks.

  • IQuiz

    So what are you saying? We should convert 45th back to four lanes? You'd have to take out all the onstreet parking on the road, which would kill all those storefront businesses. Wallingford business center would be ruined. No thanks.

  • reality based commute

    Of course we do. Fauntleroy is east-west as is 45th and countless other roads throughout the world where road diets have been tried.

  • reality based commute

    Of course we do. Fauntleroy is east-west as is 45th and countless other roads throughout the world where road diets have been tried.

  • reality based commute

    Why would the viaduct and Mercer affect Nickerson? Leary Way is a far better and more direct connection from Ballard to Fremont.

  • reality based commute

    Why would the viaduct and Mercer affect Nickerson? Leary Way is a far better and more direct connection from Ballard to Fremont.

  • morning

    Look it's what he said – I didn't mention the viaduct -

  • morning

    Look it's what he said – I didn't mention the viaduct -

  • morning

    Faunteroy is primarily an N-S street – the E-W issue is more severe in the northend.

  • morning

    Faunteroy is primarily an N-S street – the E-W issue is more severe in the northend.

  • Anc

    Parking is be a useful physical and psychological between automobiles and pedestrians. Who likes to walk down down a sidewalk with cars streaming past just a few feet away?

    The use of bus bulbs can help mitigate any transit delays.

  • Anc

    Parking is be a useful physical and psychological between automobiles and pedestrians. Who likes to walk down down a sidewalk with cars streaming past just a few feet away?

    The use of bus bulbs can help mitigate any transit delays.

  • morning

    Mr Hiller,

    The Minnesota study you linked to is much more of a land use study than street use. The study would indicate that more industry should be encouraged not less.

    Meanwhile, this first study
    by itself breaks new ground and raises a critical
    if controversial question: whether it is possible to
    engineer through proactive public policy a steady
    increase in access to destinations even as every effort
    is made to combat congestion.
    .

    The study seems schizophrenic. They use the straw man of TTI but don't measure city street congestion. They say people want to live near where they work, but not in a neighborhood of other workers, whatever that means.

  • morning

    Mr Hiller,

    The Minnesota study you linked to is much more of a land use study than street use. The study would indicate that more industry should be encouraged not less.

    Meanwhile, this first study
    by itself breaks new ground and raises a critical
    if controversial question: whether it is possible to
    engineer through proactive public policy a steady
    increase in access to destinations even as every effort
    is made to combat congestion.
    .

    The study seems schizophrenic. They use the straw man of TTI but don't measure city street congestion. They say people want to live near where they work, but not in a neighborhood of other workers, whatever that means.

  • cartoliterate

    nickerson is a way around queen ann; you wouldn't want the traveil of crossing north into fremont ballard to get from one side of queen ann to the other. you might have two bridges go up or traffric jams on those bridges. in reality the east west routes are very limited as your choice is denny or nickerson; this is a reason why nickerson isn't like stone way which has literally dozens of alternative routes goint north and south whereas nickerson has none, the best you can point to is learywhich is across a body of water and which requires going through two chokepoints to use (fremont bridge and ballard bridge).

  • cartoliterate

    nickerson is a way around queen ann; you wouldn't want the traveil of crossing north into fremont ballard to get from one side of queen ann to the other. you might have two bridges go up or traffric jams on those bridges. in reality the east west routes are very limited as your choice is denny or nickerson; this is a reason why nickerson isn't like stone way which has literally dozens of alternative routes goint north and south whereas nickerson has none, the best you can point to is learywhich is across a body of water and which requires going through two chokepoints to use (fremont bridge and ballard bridge).

  • okay i just used my head

    people aren't so stupid as to rear end other drivers making left turns. cite statistics. lane jockeying improves traffic flow as the faster drivers get through and move on; they're going faster and this improves the person per hour flow rate. pedestrians are safe when there's been few accidents on nickerson and the spu area is signalized. there are just not that many people crossing nickerson. your point about bike lanes is valid. the point about urban design is only somewhat valid, there has to be a critical mass and nickerson which isn't really part of a grid isn't going to end up like 45th which is.

  • okay i just used my head

    people aren't so stupid as to rear end other drivers making left turns. cite statistics. lane jockeying improves traffic flow as the faster drivers get through and move on; they're going faster and this improves the person per hour flow rate. pedestrians are safe when there's been few accidents on nickerson and the spu area is signalized. there are just not that many people crossing nickerson. your point about bike lanes is valid. the point about urban design is only somewhat valid, there has to be a critical mass and nickerson which isn't really part of a grid isn't going to end up like 45th which is.

  • eddiew

    bollards may substitute for parked cars as a physical barrier; they are more common in Europe. bike lanes would provide a buffer between cars and the sidewalks. bus bulbs are great, they just cost money. they add sidewalk capacity and space for transit amenities.

  • eddiew

    bollards may substitute for parked cars as a physical barrier; they are more common in Europe. bike lanes would provide a buffer between cars and the sidewalks. bus bulbs are great, they just cost money. they add sidewalk capacity and space for transit amenities.

  • voter

    K, this reply isn't about your Cascade assertions, but could you let me know what good things Rasmussen is doing? Right now he plans to hold a big Transportation Committee dog and pony show to appease a bunch of neighborhood and freight folks who are pushing back and using a bunch of misstatements to fuel their fire. How will Rasmussen actually decide whether to support or oppose Nickerson?

    Otherwise, how has he shown he's a champion of pedestrians or bicycling? What initiatives has he launched from his perch on Council? Do tell.

    I write this hoping he will do the right thing and I desperately want him to do great things for ped and bike issues, but I'm not sure I see it.

  • voter

    K, this reply isn't about your Cascade assertions, but could you let me know what good things Rasmussen is doing? Right now he plans to hold a big Transportation Committee dog and pony show to appease a bunch of neighborhood and freight folks who are pushing back and using a bunch of misstatements to fuel their fire. How will Rasmussen actually decide whether to support or oppose Nickerson?

    Otherwise, how has he shown he's a champion of pedestrians or bicycling? What initiatives has he launched from his perch on Council? Do tell.

    I write this hoping he will do the right thing and I desperately want him to do great things for ped and bike issues, but I'm not sure I see it.

  • ebronstein

    I've commuted by bicycle across Seattle for 30 years now, but I also drive a car from time to time. You can show me a dozen different studies that “prove” a road diet's superior traffic flow, but I'm not buying 'em. Not when good old NE 50th St. became a quagmire overnight after its road diet a few years back. I'm inclined to hold off for a few more years on any plan that limits capacity on an east-west thoroughfare.

  • ebronstein

    I've commuted by bicycle across Seattle for 30 years now, but I also drive a car from time to time. You can show me a dozen different studies that “prove” a road diet's superior traffic flow, but I'm not buying 'em. Not when good old NE 50th St. became a quagmire overnight after its road diet a few years back. I'm inclined to hold off for a few more years on any plan that limits capacity on an east-west thoroughfare.

  • voter

    Morning,

    Let's boil down the essence of your passion to this post.

    So what you're saying is that we've reached the “just right” level of pedestrian and bicycle safety, and that we as a city don't need to do anything else to prevent death or injury to the most vulnerable users of the right-of-way?

    Similarly, using your logic, Nickerson's rechannelization is going to slow down traffic (the analysis and modeling disagrees with your assertion, despite your anecdotes and memories stretching back to 1955) and preventing death or injury is an unacceptable trade off to meet your need to get to Copacabana for lunch in an expeditious fashion?

    Classy dude you are.

  • voter

    Morning,

    Let's boil down the essence of your passion to this post.

    So what you're saying is that we've reached the “just right” level of pedestrian and bicycle safety, and that we as a city don't need to do anything else to prevent death or injury to the most vulnerable users of the right-of-way?

    Similarly, using your logic, Nickerson's rechannelization is going to slow down traffic (the analysis and modeling disagrees with your assertion, despite your anecdotes and memories stretching back to 1955) and preventing death or injury is an unacceptable trade off to meet your need to get to Copacabana for lunch in an expeditious fashion?

    Classy dude you are.