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McGinn Says He’ll Veto Tunnel Agreement; Council President Says Mayor is “Grandstanding”

This story was originally posted yesterday around Noon.


Mayor Mike McGinn said this morning that he would veto city legislation moving forward with construction on the deep-bore tunnel, expected later this month. McGinn said the council should “stand up and say we won’t go forward with” the project unless the state legislature reverses a law that puts city taxpayers on the hook for cost overruns on the tunnel.

The city plans to co-sign a request for proposals for tunnel construction with the state at the end of May. A previous memorandum of understanding with the state passed the city council unanimously; unless McGinn manages to convince four council members to change their positions, that’s a veto-proof vote.

Speaking to reporters after McGinn’s press briefing, council president Richard Conlin excoriated the mayor for “grandstanding” on the tunnel and said he believed the council would vote again to uphold their agreement. “I just don’t think he understands the way these processes work,” Conlin said.

McGinn “has not done the work he needs to do,” Conlin continued. “If he was concerned about the legislation, he would have worked with the legislature… If he was concerned about the project he would have worked collaboratively with the city council.”

Noting that 90 percent of megaprojects, historically, have gone over budget, McGinn said that “if we don’t speak now, we will be responsible for cost overruns.”

“Don’t you wish that someone at Washington Mutual had said, ‘Maybe we shouldn’t make those subprime loans?” McGinn said, gesturing toward a chart showing the relative size of the city’s current $56 million budget deficit and a 50 percent tunnel overrun of $1.5 billion. “That’s the point we’re at now.”

The state has included a cushion approximately $450 million in the project for potential overruns.

Asked whether he wasn’t also concerned about cost overruns on the seawall project—for which he has proposed a $291 million bond measure—McGinn said, “The seawall might be over budget,” but “it’s a much simpler engineering project. … The seawall is a requirement. It holds back Puget Sound up to First Avenue. We don’t have an alternative but to replace it.”

He added, “Seawalls are known technologies and known construction techniques.”


  • Stickler

    The lawyers must be salivating. The documentation at the City, County and State that acknowledge the imminent risk of a catastrophic failure of the viaduct will make suing these same entities for negligence when the viaduct does collapse painfully easy. Unfortunately the Mayor will not be personally liable, but you can bet the rest of us will all be paying for the inevitable massive legal judgment.

  • diadora

    I for one am very glad the mayor is pressing this issue now. It is ridiculous that people in Seattle should have to pay if the state doesn't do a good job of construction management. What incentive is left to the state to control costs?

    Good for McGinn!

  • TranspoGuy

    The Mayor is against tearing down the Viaduct? Tearing down the Viaduct and building the tunnel are not the same thing. If anyone dies in a collapse, blame the governor. She's the one who promised to tear it down by 2012.

  • Edog

    “Don’t you wish that someone at Washington Mutual had said, ‘Maybe we shouldn’t make those subprime loans?” Nothing like injecting a little fear to make your case, but the truth is these two situations are not analogous!

    Wamu decided to make bad investments, while one opponent of the tunnel in Olympia is trying to make the tunnel a bad investment for Seattle, and another opponent of the tunnel in the city is pretending the language is binding and that protecting the city requires stopping the tunnel. Of course, McGinn could litigate that part of the measure if he wanted to, and he'd probably win going way, but that would not stop the tunnel, and since he cares about that more than any attempt by the state to push costs to a municipality for a state project – WHICH IS THE REAL ISSUE HERE – we are screwed.

    Mike should be an adult about this and say hes against the program and wants to see it end because he does not like the tunnel. Of course, he could be the Mayor and litigate to protect the city, every city in the state, from an undue burden placed on the city by the state, but he'd rather not really defend the City. This is about Mike and his White Whale, not defending the civic interest from an aggressive stance by the state.

  • N8

    And if anyone dies in the tunnel, blame the Mayor cause he promised to stop it.

  • N8

    I'm glad that the cost overruns will be paid by Seattle (I live outside of Seattle), this will give Seattle less incentive to sue, discuss and vote the hell out of the issue and just get it done; but then again, it doesn't seem to be deterring the mayor so far.

  • cary

    This is such a surreal situation.
    Ask any lawyer whether it's wise to sign a contract where the entity that has decision authority over spending is different than the entity with responsibility to pay the bills, and you'll be advised against. The City would never enter into such a contract knowingly in any other situation.
    From Conlin's statement, he apparently would rather gamble on a win in court later than work out a clear, mutually understood assignment of accountability before signing a contract. Does he actually think Council has the magic powers to reverse a contract later, in court, if things don't go the way he hopes?
    How is that good governance?

  • smokin somethin

    The Mayor's point is moot. The State Constitution prohibits the state from dictating how a local jurisdiction must spend its money. Cost overruns, if any, will be the responsibility of the project manager, WSDOT, and the contractor(s). The state simply does not have authority to recover cost from a city in case like this. It's pure grand-stand, Conlin is right.

  • huskycharlie

    This needs to stop. This Viaduct issue was solved with the previous administration besides the cost overrun clause is almost impossible to enforce.

    Mcginn is going all out to beat Paul Schell in the “worst mayor of my lifetime” award. I see no benefit for anyone in opening this up to debate especially the mayor. It is a pretty slim chance that he will stop this and even if he does there will be alot of hurt feelings along the way.

    This what the city gets when it votes in a mayor with little organizational experience. Everybody forgets that the guy had to be propped up at the Seattle parks campaign becuase he was running it into the ground.

  • Timothy

    The City Council is derelict in it's duty if it allows these contracts to go forward with this clause. Good for McGinn.

  • Timothy

    Damn auto-type typos.

  • saddadbadhad

    I totally agree with your assessment here, Cary. And the Mayor's, too. You're spot-on. But….

    … his ineffectiveness is a serious, perhaps fatal problem for the issues we care about. The Mayor's profoundly ham-handed stumbles out of the gate – errors that undermined his agenda before he warmed his desk chair – have not been acknowledged or corrected. He seems right on most issues, wrong on delivery. In politics and governance, the power really is in the delivery.

    He has the governor, the council, the chamber, the legislature, the congressional delegation and much of the rest of the city dubious of about his fitness for office. This is not the mayor I thought I was voting for.

    Mike needs to show us all that he can behave like the leader of a major city should. i believe it begins with an overhaul of his political staff and a sit down with the major political and community players in the city.

    If he cannot, or refuses, he should resign. Can you get him to see the light?

  • 40-year Seattleite

    McGinn “has not done the work he needs to do,” Conlin continued. “If he was concerned about the legislation, he would have worked with the legislature… If he was concerned about the project he would have worked collaboratively with the city council.”

    Yeah, right. Sort of like Obama trying to work with Republicans in the Congress…hard to do when all you get in return is No, No, and Hell No!

    Three cheers for Mayor McGinn!

  • Trevor

    Actually, grandstanding would be feigning surprise that McGinn opposes the tunnel. What McGinn is doing, whether you like it or not, is called being consistent with where he's always been.

  • TranspoGuy

    Seems fair.

  • John J

    “…The state has included a cushion approximately $450 million in the project for potential overruns.”

    Am I wrong in believing this is significant?

  • saddadbadhad

    If his consistent messages are falling on deaf ears because powerful people believe him to be a complete boob, what good is he?

  • cyn cyn cynical

    At least McGinn's wearing a suit.

  • West Seattle Waiter

    Well at least he came out of the closet. His “tunnel pivot” was really just a “truth pivot.”

    If I was Gregoire and Murray and Dow — I would let this guy have it, no more holding back. And I really mean have it, not passive aggressive Seattle stuff. They need to give him the full Rahm Emanuel treatment.

  • http://www.politickling.com/ poliTICKLING

    Do you think its a coincidence that McGinn made this announcement while the Governor was on a plane?

  • sure

    @ cyn cyn cynical

    It also looks like he got in shower and haircut before going into public….maybe the tables are turning!

  • McGinn is right on.

    Dude, it's not McGinn's fault the governor and the legislature and WSDOT all (a) want to build a project on a crazy law saying Seattle bears all cost overruns and (b) refuse to clarify that and (c) have internal divisions in which some senators say “you bet it's binding, screw seattle!” and other ssenators say “of course we all konw this provision isn't kosher, and it won't be enforced!”

    McGinn's the only one showing leadership.

    And the analogy to subprime is spot on.

    This DBT finance package is a self shorting mechanism. It's a derivative. It's a gamble. It's a bet on overruns (Gov: “there will be no overruns,” what a joke) and a derivative bet that Seattle can, and will finance them.

    Three cheers for McGinn.

    And Mr. Conlin doesn't seem to get the process. There's no requirement for everyone to agree; and if the mayor wants to veto something that's likely to be overriden anyway, to make a point, that's his right and in fact that's his moral obligation because he ran on opposing this thing and he'd be turning his back on his campaign stances if he caved in.

  • JW

    Weren't these things voted on by council during the previous administration? I seem to remember the council approving an agreement shortly before McGinn's inauguration. Seems a bit ridiculous to then say that he should have worked with the other stakeholders when he hadn't taken office.

  • Wells

    The Deep-bore tunnel is an atrocious engineering in every way, nevermind cost overruns. After how WSDOT has screwed the Seattle region over the years, why is it so hard to see the Deep-bore tunnel is WSDOT's middle finger?

    Ex-SDOT director Crunican was fired from Oregon State DOT for her “malevolent” oversight of an inner-city highway project in Portland. She's done worse to Seattle with the Alaskan Way boulevard design and Mercer West, projects directly tied to the Deep-bore tunnel.

    The only sensible tunnel option is some version of Tunnelite. If a quarter of you morons took the time to research it, you'd know better. Not that messy to build, and the Waterfront District and Seattle's economy will survive any construction disruption.

  • Wells

    Richard Conlin is about to be voted out of office. He's wrong about the Deep-bore and he knows he's wrong.

  • Wells

    The deep-bore tunnel is atrocious engineering, so incompetently designed, corruption cannot be ruled out. Richard Conlin will be voted out of office next go-round.

  • Wells

    Powerful people do not believe McGinn to be a complete boob. Anyone hearing him speak knows better. Powerful people lie to convince halfwits like you that he's complete boob.

  • saddadbadhad

    Oh, is that what happened? Could it be that one of those powerful people lying to me to convince me that the Mayor is a boob is the Mayor himself?

  • sarah68

    Yes, they were.

  • Timothy

    Well…if it IS significant, then the State should have no problem taking on the cost overruns, right?

  • Timothy

    Well…if it IS significant, then the State should have no problem taking on the cost overruns, right?

  • Guest

    Actually, Conlin was just re-elected a few months ago with more votes than any other official in the city's history including unchallenged incumbents and mayoral candidates. But I guess there can be different meanings for 'about to be'.

  • Edog

    “tunnel pivot” was really just a “truth pivot.”

    If he had done this before the election, he would not be mayor now. Many people who were sitting on the fence about him only warmed to him after he started his now infamous flip flop on the tunnel.

  • huskycharlie

    What proof do you have that the tunnel is bad engineering? Where are your facts? It has gone through several reviews by civil engineers and has been green lighted each time.

    It sounds like you are wrapping your personal opinion in claims of bad engineering and corruption without any real proof.

    Frankly I am going to put my trust into the City and State's civil engineers who have historically done a good job rather then an anonymous blog poster.

  • Edog

    “There's no requirement for everyone to agree” governing is all about cooperation, and in no venue has McGinn proven he is able, capable, or willing of working with others. P.S. that was Conlin's point.

  • Rhee Joinder

    No, governing is about passing things and counting votes, if the council wants to override the veto–they override the veto.

    McGin proved he was able, capable or willing to work with others when he got more of them to vote for him, including based on his stance on the tunnel.

    If you recall the election — in which we did not all agree — the other guy? That guy who was all for building it and overruns be dammed? That guy lost the election.

    Sometimes governing is about cooperation. Sometimes it's about conflict. Oh, big scary word, conflict, try to get used to it.

    BTW if Conlin gave into mcginn then we would have total cooperation. why can't conlin cooperate??

  • Mensch

    yes, light rail at 100% overbudget, then brightwater at 100% overbudget, third runway 100% overbudget, schools, libraries, police stations all at about 100% overbudget (considering cuts in scope and increases in cost).

    It's a damn consistent record. It proves the States knows this will be over budget — that's why they're trying to pass the overrun risk off onto us sclemiels up here in Seattle, dumpkopf!

  • huskycharlie

    I am not talking about budget overruns, Col. Klink. I was talking about the tunnels structural engineering.

    Read the posts before you flame out.

  • kurisu

    He doesn't feel the city should take on an irresponsible risk.

  • kurisu

    Husky, If the Viaduct issue had been “solved,” Nickels wouldn't have lost the primary

  • kurisu

    I can think of a few formerly powerful people who are no longer so powerful because they underestimated McGinn

  • kurisu

    His pivot was to focus on cost overruns, which is exactly what he is doing right now.

  • Anc

    Okay, someone help me out here, b/c my nose must be failing me.

    If the State is not going to run over budget, if the State doesn't plan on going after the city, if the WA Constitution says that the State CAN'T go after the city, why was the clause there in the first case, and why won't they take it out? Seriously it it doesn't matter than why is everyone giving 'obstructionist' McGinn a platform?

    I smell BS.

  • huskycharlie

    Mcginn promised during his campaign that he would not stop the viaduct. It was one of the major reasons he won. The viaduct issue was done when the primary and election happened with all three candidates supporting the tunnel decision.

    Not really understanding your point about Nichols campaign loss being tied to the viadauct. It seems that the snowstorm of 2008 was a bigger factor in his defeat.

  • Appalled

    Yes, and now he looks like a snippy kid trying to clean up for something important. That photo (with the big dumb, red bar chart) just makes him look like a complete idiot.

  • saddadbadhad

    You mean, like one? The ex-Mayor? I over-estimated Mike. I know him and like him a lot as a person. He happens to be a disaster as a Mayor and advocate for the issues that made me vote for him. No on should be an apologist for someone who so aggressively mishandles and dismisses the basic requirements for his job. I want him to succeed, know he cannot and want him out. My issues are more important than loyalty to my November vote.

  • Wells

    Conlin lost his integrity by supporting the deep-bore tunnel fiasco. Countless people have been misled to believe it's a good idea. They'll all know the truth soon enough and will vote Conlin out. Conlin bet his political future on this terrible project. Not all Seattlers are idiots who'll fall for any whiz bang campaign.

  • Wells

    I've laid out the rationale against the deep bore and charges of corruption on this forum board and others many times. It's not that hard to understand. Why have plans for reconstructing the seawall been left for last? Incompetence or corruption? Why did WSDOT waste years proposing the most expensive tunnels? Why did they continue working on an elevated replacement? After the 2007 voter rejection of Tunnelite, why did WSDOT spend another year finalizing Tunnelite design with Scenario 'G' if they know it's not feasible? Why was the Deep-bore accepted overnight at the 11th hour?

    How can the 40,000 vehicles that now access the AWV via Elliott/Western be rerouted through residential Lower Queen Anne ala Mercer West and halfwits like you have no concern about the health impact to folks there, or the hassle it'll be for motorists to be circuitously rerouted?

    HuskyCharlie, a person has to be part ape to play professional football and part chimp to enjoy watching it.

  • Wells

    The deep-bore tunnel is more than terrible engineering; it's a threat of catastrophic proportions so close to the foundations of downtown's historic buildings and towers. The engineers who've proved themselves dispicably incompetent with their traffic-clogged freeways and boulevards don't want to admit something is wrong with this picture. Some of these god damn freeway engineers know their work is intentionally designed to make traffic as bad as it is. Duh.

  • Barleywine

    The viaduct was nice, but not really all that important. Nice views going south. Maybe all the back and forth is to avoid the realization that we could do without it, and get there finally by stalling.

    We'd get an open waterfont. A very cheap solution (tear it down).
    And more support for other regional transportation solutions.

    I like it.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    At least he is wearing pants.

    They have not even finished the agreement but he knows he is going to veto it.
    What a dumbass, it is grandstanding, and he is going to lose this, and the believers are having kittens.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    To get votes.
    The Seattle haters need something to wave around Ritzville, we stuck it to 'um again!

    People vote for all kinds of stupid things in bills.

    A couple of months ago when the last estimate came out and the project was still on target there wasn't this big story at Publicola. I guess grandstanding gets more clicks.

  • Brent

    Where has the mayor called for the viaduct to stay open?

    It is WSDOT and the governor who have made the decision to keep the viaduct open. The decision and culpability is on their heads.

  • Good_Grief

    Sounds like the State is — at least the first $450 Million.

  • David Sucher

    I am very glad that on this issue McGinn is in office.

  • joshuadf

    Actually, the cost estimate for the deep bore tunnel itself increased by $60m according to WSDOT project director Ron Paananen:
    http://crosscut.com/2010/01/20/alaskan-way-viad…

    The $60m increase was because a detailed look at the endpoints found that an additional 640 ft of tunnel was required. That's called a change in scope and is one of the major sources of cost overruns, as any civil engineer can tell you.

    The other major factor beyond human control is the future cost of materials and labor. Current estimates are low but it's anyone's guess what will happen once the economy recovers, which I certainly hope it will before this years-long project is complete.

    Then there's also the “deception or delusion” that Flyvbjerg identified for megaprojects:
    http://daily.sightline.org/daily_score/archive/…

  • Gerret

    I called him ” Smilling Face with No bones” Conlin is by far the most boring member of the council. He is known to be less smart than other members of the council, and he is dead wrong on the tunnel. I voted last time but never again.

  • Voter

    The tunnel is a very unpopular with Seattle voters.Rusmussen and Conlin are out of touch with the public, and if they insist on the tunnel, they are putting their political career on the line. Rusmensunn Nov 2011, and Conlin 2013

  • PG

    McGinn caved on the DBT (sorry fo the pun) in the election – said he would go along with the council's wishes but would work to change the law on overruns. His problem is he has no knowledge, experience, or skill in working with legislative bodies, he's a smart guy, but a political idiot.

  • Galmeso, Ula

    Change is hard, and McGinn is more popular than ever before. He is #1 public defender against the few exploiters who want to keep the same old way.
    He has the public in his side. One man one vote, and the public has the power. Could you explain why Seattle voters should be on the hook? i guess you have no answer for it.

  • DIdi

    Tim Burges right. He is done for good, and Many will follow suit.
    Great Mcginn you are truely smart guy

  • eddiew

    the so-called cost over run clause was supposed to be necessary for the measure to pass the Legislature. it is vague. during the 2009 campaign, Sen. Katsama explained one way that it would be enforced by the Legisative budget process: other state transportation projects in the “Seattle area” would be cut to make up the difference. of course, there is a risk that the Legislature is so tax adverse that there will be no new projects to reduce.

  • Alex Galmasa

    No, the city council is responsible, not the mayor. they (Council) are the one who failed to defend the interest of the city( Cost Over Run).

  • Johnson. J

    People are in charge the city hall Now, unlike the old days when the specail interest were the King Makers. I love Democracy.

  • notafiree

    “No” the mayor is not responsible… he's not done one single positive thing in office. he's only made attempts to block government (with varied success). just shooting down all projects that were underway when he arrived from his seventh floor machine-gun nest is not remotely responsible …in that, you're correct.

  • huskycharlie

    Nice insults. You have inspired me to re-name myself Husky/Seahawk Charlie-The Bitter Person Stopper! :)

    But back to my point…you accuse them of corruption but do have any proof. You say it is poor engineering and then offer no hard facts around it. Not liking the tunnel is not the same as saying the tunnel is unsound engineering.

    They are trying to replace a major arterial and that will not be easy anyway you slice it. Some neighborhoods will have to deal with the traffic.

    As for your health concerns it seems elitist to worry about people on Queen Anne but nowhere else. Those cars gotta go somewhere and somebody will have to breath in the air so it sounds like you are OK with that as long as it not in a high end neighboorhood.

  • Wells

    I met with Cary Moon in the early days of People's Waterfront Coalition to explain a rationale for defending the surface/transit option. The only part of the rationale she left unfully considered in efforts thereafter was how land-use and development was necessary in West Seattle and suburban communities generally to reduce cross-county commuting ala the AWV and the regional freeway/highway and boulevard transportation system.

    I consider the horrific presence of the AWV a major economic stumbling block hampering the downtown economy. The other major stumbling blocks are also transportation-related: poorly arranged transit, hazardous bicycling accommodation and piss poor sidewalks and pedestrian amenities. WSDOT and SDOT are so incompetent, corruption cannot be ruled out. Mayor McGinn is a dragon slayer.

  • huskycharlie

    Let me say right now…That I am against the over run clause. My point being that it clause is pretty much un-enforcable. Seattle can sue the State not to pay because no other community has to pay for their runs on state projects in their borders. The clause is punitive and specific.

    I see the clause as window dressing for state polticians to show that they stood up against big, bad Seattle. But I do not see those same politicians pushing a fine/court case which could end up with their very own districts being forced to pay for over runs as well. Talk about political. Imagine every small town in eastern washington have to pay cost overruns on their state highways. It would be bedlam.

  • Edog

    Yes, the official reason, and a real reason. Literally, yes, you are correct. However, politically he did this to win votes of people who simply want the tunnel done.

    My sense of this is that even if the cost over run issue could be resolved, and the State suddenly came up with the money he seeks, he'd find some other issue to be an a*s about on the tunnel.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    McGinn is fighting to rid this region of the swindlers, insiders, schemers and other sleeze that has plagued us for a decade now.

  • tvguide

    I see a disaster thriller in making. Chubby little Stupor Mike coming in for the rescue, saying I told you so… if we had turned this city into Portland, this would never have happened.

  • http://deadcatsbounce.blogspot.com Gomez

    They're just now getting to this? Everyone knew months ago what they were going to do. What a glacial process.

  • http://deadcatsbounce.blogspot.com Gomez

    Yes, by installing his own swindlers, insiders, schemers and other sleeze!

  • kurisu

    McGinn never would have made it through the primary had it not been for the tunnel. Given Mallahan's weakness as a candidate, we'd probably be looking at a 3rd Nickels term.

  • huskycharlie

    I completely agree.

  • huskycharlie

    if you mean that Mcginn would not been elected if he had kept up his opposition to the tunnel.

    His backing off his oppostion and saying he would support the City Council's decision if he was elected helped get him more support.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/…

  • morning fizzy

    Does the agreement include the clause for cost overruns?

  • Soapboxin'

    Welcome back, Wells. I missed you!!! How are things in Portland? I love Grace Crunican and I hate the cut-and-cover. So there.

  • N8

    Not living in Seattle, I think that it is great that the legislature is making Seattle pay for cost overruns (although with the way bidding is going, I don't think that there will be any). Seattle (and especially the Mayor) will most likely be the ones to blame for the overruns as they try to talk about it, vote on it, and sue the hell over it; thus causing the overruns.

  • Soapboxin'

    You are the worst kind of poster. You only care about one issue. You can't accept the fact that everyone doesn't see your 'truth'. When questioned, you resort to personal attacks.

  • N8

    Light Rail = Sound Transit
    Brightwater = King County (somehow built in Snohomish County)
    Third Runway = Port of Seattle
    Schools, libraries, police = Local governments

    100% over budget = False claims

    This project is a WSDOT project. so maybe you should try posting some facts on their projects and not the ones screwed up by Seattle politics of voting on everything 10 times and suing the hell out everything.

  • Soapboxin'

    Nickels lost the primary for 3 reasons: 1) The blizzard. 2) He didn't take it seriously. 3) He had more enemies than he realized.

  • Soapboxin'

    Agree 100%. It's a poker game. The Council thinks it has the winning hand. I do, too. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
    -
    I'm actually coming around to McGinn's opposition to 520, but I won't support stalling on the AWV-DBT transition. It's an acceptable alternative and it needs to proceed. I'm fully prepared to live with the consequences as a citizen of Seattle.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Yes, I read the estimate when WSDOT emailed the update.
    It was a risk, it turned into an issue that they accepted as part of the statement of work, raising the work estimate, lowering the risk estimate.
    If you look further in the estimate for the actual tunnel, and see how much risk dollars they have planned, and another 400 million in additional tolling in later years (same “over run” bill”, then the tunnel portion could go 90% over and still not trigger the sky to fall, or give meaning to anything the mayor said yesterday.

    There is a reason they did not grandstand when that updated estimate came out, it did not support his fear mongering.

  • Timothy

    If you want to argue facts, then it should be acknowledged that the design and engineering of the DBT is nowhere near complete; nobody can argue that it is either good or bad, and that's a major problem in moving forward especially where there's contention regarding costs.

  • Timothy

    Again Husky Charlie, if you contend to be arguing facts, then get them right. McGinn vowed he'd continue to fight for Seattle regarding this very issue of cost overruns.

    If anyone is being obstructionist, it's the State Legislature and the City Counciil trying to play political games that are too-clever-by-half and not taking the responsibility to do this project right.

  • Timothy

    Too-clever-by-half

  • huskycharlie

    Timonthy-Mcginn made it very clear before the election that he was going to stand by the City Council's decision about the tunnel. That is a quote directly from him and as proof I have included the link to the pre-election article. He made that promise becuase his opposition to the tunnel was by far the biggest barrier he had in getting elected.

    The Mayor is now backing out of that promise. Regardless of his personal feelings about the tunnel he made a promise he has now broken. Mcginn lied to get elected.

    It seems pretty clearcut to me.

  • Timothy

    Husky Charlie…you should read your links before you stake your position on them. From the article you linked:

    “McGinn said he still believes the tunnel is too expensive, but Monday shifted the focus of his opposition to cost overruns. In the current state law, Seattle-area property owners who benefit from the tunnel are responsible for cost overruns.

    McGinn cast himself Monday as the candidate who would fight those overruns.

    “There is a clear choice in this election,” he said. “My opponent has refused to ask or answer any hard questions about the tunnel.”

  • Timothy

    btw…the threaded view on these threads is awful to follow. Having the scroll back up and scrutinize the entire thread again to see if there's a new comment is inefficient. Makes me prefer to put my energy elsewhere.

  • County-Man

    Dow, is he supporting the Tunnel. He will have a hard time 2013. I feel sorry for his tight paints

  • PB

    The only reason i voted for him was his opposition to Tunnel. Get your facts buddy before you write…

  • Anc

    So everyone outside Seattle are naive morons? Not realizing that these are empty promises that the state has no ability to enforce?

    Yeah, again, doesn’t pass the smell test.

  • huskycharlie

    Actually I am going to come out and say the article I posted is a pretty slick political statement. I think you can read anything into it depending on what side of the issue you are on. I see someone saying they will not fight the tunnel and you see someone who is going to keep fighting.

  • Wells

    I've tried to explain fairly what's wrong with the deep-bore and why a cut/cover is the better option, but all I get from Seattlers is “nyah nyah whatever.” You don't realize how dangerous and futile the deep-bore is no matter what I say and therefore sound like a clueless yes-man. I call a spade a spade. I knock the chip off your shoulder and you refuse to deal with it. Sure, I get angry, but the situation is dire. I have to act. If the deep-bore is built, the traffic will get much worse, guaranteed.

  • Wells

    Let me make this simple: From Elliott Ave at Mercer Place to the AWV southbound entrance in Lower Belltown is the most direct, level and shortest distance through a “commercial” corridor. 40,000 vehicles daily make this trip. The deep-bore redirects this traffic through “residential” Lower Queen Anne, adding the hill climb, at least 3 stoplights and about 1/2 mile.

    It's likely that Mercer Place is not the actual route because it's only 2 lanes; too much traffic. SDOT is fudging the cost. The more likely route will come out later; probably a couplet made of Thomas and Harrison, also mostly residential. This adds more distance and a couple more stoplights as the redirected traffic turns on Queen Anne Ave and 1st before turning on Mercer, widened to 6 lanes as proposed in the Mercer West Mess.

    It gets worse. Either way, Mercer east of Aurora gets an influx of new traffic from Elliott, as if the Mercer Mess isn't bad enough. Oh, I'm sorry. Did I make your head hurt? Well, just shove it back up your but if that makes you feel better. The residents of Lower Queen Anne are getting the shaft, no matter their income level. You should also think about how this displaced traffic will be managed through Lower Belltown and Alaskan Way, but maybe you're just a lost cause or worse, a yesman gulping, “Yeah boss. How high you want me jump?”

  • huskycharlie

    Respond

    Another sweet attack. I like the “yes men” angle. I sense quite a bit of failure in your life that you blame on “yes men”.

    I do have one question before I put “my head back in my but(sp?)”. Have you ever gone to any of the monthly public forums that the WSDOT holds on this issue and voiced your concerns? What was their response?

    I have not held myself up as an engineering expert and trust that the state engineers know what they are doing. You have presented yourself as an “expert” and I would like to know what other civic engineers think of your points.

  • nope

    @ Voter – Who is Rusmensunn? Is there a #10 CM that I dont know about and is he related to Rusmussen?

  • Timothy

    Ah, right. Because McGinn didn't actually say exactly what you said he didn't say what I said he did say. Fine. It's all just posturing, and the details don't matter…except, they do, actually.

    :fail:

  • nope

    @ Wells … I missed you! Kisses!

  • sure

    By the way it is bullshit- If the cost overrun provision was taken out. McGinn would still be against the tunnel. And then back to the drawing board for another 10 years. Passive Agressive Seattle likes McGinn and voted for him because we think we are the smartest people in the room. Light Rail = debated for YEARS! AWV = Debated for years! These issues take leadership. The tunnel sucks its not the best…but it is the best compromise that we could get between a KC Executive Sims who had his own interests and internal strife bullshit against Seattle and Nickels and the Gov. who wouldnt stand up to Frank!

    I would not be surprise if McGinn would present another elevated viaduct to replace AWV should he have the chance. And by the way where was McGinn when the Coalition was formed? I remember Mike Obrien there but no Mike McGinn

    He thrives on being a contrarian and it makes him a shitty Mayor

  • huskycharlie

    Forget it.  I was just pointing out that he seemed to be speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

    Are you saying that Mcginn did not back off his tunnel oppostion before the election?

    – Sent from my Palm Pre

  • Soapboxin'

    Wells, have I shown you the pictures of my new cat, Oscar, yet? He's soooooo cute! I could just sit and watch him for hours.

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    Halt..I just read the fine print….McGinn wants everyone else to pay for Seattle's Folly!

  • http://spifflines.blogspot.com/ John Bailo

    agreed…there's no real choice…

  • http://www.joeszilagyi.com/ Joe Szilagyi

    The City Council members that seek to put Seattle taxpayers on the hook for cost overruns by a 3rd party–the State, WDOT, or anyone else, without us having 100% full authority and oversight to stop such overruns–are useless wastes of elected space, are negligent in the extreme, and should there NEEDS to be a lawsuits against the city to stop that from happening.

    All the Council members in support of such a thing need to be driven not just from the council, but from the public realm entirely. Their responsibility is to protect Seattle's taxpayers first–not the state.

  • geologic

    nice trevor, thank you. been thinking the same.

  • Seriously?

    McGinn seems to me like the “blue” George Bush. He plays to his “base”, and gets them riled up (see above comments!). Its not “terrorism”, instead, its the “tunnel”. But fear, and obsobfuscation (intentional, or otherwise) are still applied to make his point.

    The deep-bore tunnel will be a design-build project. The draft of the contract is due out at the end of this month to the design-build teams. I wonder, given McGinn's legal backgfound, how much effort he has given to ensure the contract language shifts as much risk to the design-builder as possible?

    I am guessing he doesn't want to “waste” his time with something that would actually be productive such as working with WSDOT and the Council over the contract language. He probably fears that his actions may be mis-construed by his base as some statement of support for the project, or maybe he would rather just play the “fear” card again…

  • downtown resident

    And LEST ANYONE FORGET the primary “Seattle hater” was none other than FRANK CHOPP… (so-called) representative of downtown Seattle residents.

    Josh/Erica, can you please include in every post on the AWV replacement that Frank Chopp was the driving force behind the cost overrun provision. I want everyone to remember that when he's next up for re-election.

  • Timothy

    Any vestige of credibility you've had as a contributor to meaningful discussion on these boards is seriously diminished by this post.

    The “Tunnel” is equivalent to “Terrorism?” and those who don't support the tunnel are the equivalent of George Bush supporters?

    ::Rolls Eyes::

  • todayonly

    And WSDOT doesn't build light rail, brightwater, third runways, schools, libraries or police stations. Good try, though.

  • Edog

    “….actually be productive such as working with WSDOT and the Council over the contract language.”

    Personally, I speculate he has a some character flaw that prevents him from not being abrasive and passively insulting, which when combined with his rambling undisciplined style of speaking is deadly. If you watch him during his press conferences, he is never concise, and really really really seems to think that just because he is moving his mouth, he is saying something, and that we are all waiting on his every word like its wisdom. Of course, I can forgive poor communication in a young politician and get around it, but when something is put to him he clearly does not like, he not only rambles, confuses, and looses control of any sort of message, but he gets this really pointed a*s hole quality to him.

    I mean, in response to your point about working with people, I honestly don't think he has it in him. If Mike had a set of imperatives I think the first few would be something like:

    1) I know, you don't
    2) I'm right, so you can not be
    3) I'm a sage, so you'll hang on my every word
    4) If you resist any part of 1,2, or 3 through normal discourse*, I'm really going to be a jerk about it

    *: Normal Discourse: is defined as me talking, you listening, and me ordering, and you doing.

    If you look at his letter to the Governor on the tunnel, he did nothing to advance his cause, nor did he seek to find some sort of outcome. All he did was promote his position, which was already known, in a strident tone. It was really an absence of diplomacy, he not cheapened the power of the Mayor's office, but he forced the Governor to respond in kind.

  • Seriously?

    @Timothy… That your take-away from my post is that I believe the tunnel is “equivalent” to terrorism, and that those who oppose the tunnel support George Bush seriously brings into question your ability to measure the credibility of anybody's post.

    The point I was trying to make (slightly excessive hyperbole aside), is that similar to George Bush, Mike McGinn freely uses to fear to promote his interests.

    I think that as the Mayor of Seattle, its unfortunate, and counter-productive that he not work with WSDOT and the Council closely and collaboratively to ensure the design-build contract assigns risk to the design-builder as much as possible.

    Instead, McGinn would rather try to scare us – which is not unlike how George Bush used fear to promote his interests.

    The fact that our Mayor is using fear to promote his interests should be a concern to all of us.

  • Chris

    The motivator was not Chopp: it was Clibborn, D of Mercer Island. Gee, we don't get stuck with any bill so who cares.

    Alas, now the Port of Seattle is going to ante up $300 million they are on board, too.

    And, $300 million as a GO bond over 30-years is, hold your breath, $1.207 billion.

    AAAAAGH!