Afternoon Fizz: Gay Softball League Sued for Discrimination

NAGAAA in no way reflects the values and openness that I have seen in the ECSA (seattlegaysoftball.com). If the facts of this lawsuit are correct, then shame on NAGAAA.

That being said, the Seattle Throttle effing rule!!!

I guess an identity has become mainstream when it's confident enough allegedly to humiliate people who don't match the particular identity coordinates.

Having played in NAGAAA for 25 years and attended, some 15 World Series, i'm SURE that these “Gentlemen” were Made to be Aware, CLEARLY, what the rules were, are and WILL BE when playing in a NAGAAA Sanctioned league/World Series.

The by-laws Cover “BiSexuals.” They may Play but they Count as “STRAIGHT.” They are allowed to have as Many Straight players as they want but they may Only have TWO straight players in the Line UP at any given time. I'm SURE the Management of the team in question KNEW the rules, but CHOSE to violate them.

They tried to Cheat and GOT CAUGHT. Period. All the Lawsuits in the world wont Change that fact. MAN UP, Guys…you KNEW the Rules GOING IN….and YET, you chose to CHEAT…..

My Grandma used to say “A Cheat, is a Cheat, is a Cheat.” Grow a Pair and admit you got caught CHEATING.

Are you implying that they were cheating because straight people automatically play better?

The rule is discriminatory, period. And discrimination in any direction is wrong.

No, i'm STATING that the KNEW the rules of this Private Organization ahead of time and ACTIVELY CHOSE to Violate them. In my mind, that constitutes “CHEATING.”

Please dont try to put words in my mouth by interpreting what i'm “Implying.” The RULES are the RULES. They dont change because they got Caught Violating them. Period

Gays knew that it was illegal to be gay in the Boy Scouts, and still sued them. Are you saying that lawsuit was wrong?

Cheating implies that they were doing it to receive an unfair advantage. You used the word, therefore I can only infer that you believe that straight folks are better at sports than gay folks.

And the rule is still discriminatory. We cannot stand and call for equality when we not only exclude a segment of our population (bisexuals), but discriminate against straights. Discrimination is always wrong.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheating

cheating

Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: ˈchēt
Function: verb
Etymology: 2cheat
Date: 1590
transitive verb

1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive verb
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>
2 : to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on <was cheating on his wife>
3 : to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area <the shortstop was cheating toward second base>

I was there when this protest happened. I am a firm believer in following the rules. I do think D2 broke the rules. My only question is how long has this team been playing together? How many years have they brought this same team to the series? I think it is shady for the other teams to finally protest once they looked like they might win the series. They were never a threat before so they were left alone. Now let me say again. If these players were new to the series and league or if this was the first time D2 brought players like this to the series then I fully believe they should have been protested out. Just don't let them do this year after year and once they end up in the championship game decide to kick them out.

I WAS AT THE WORLD SERIES IN SEATTLE.

D2 brought tons of straight players! Their wives and children sitting right behind them in the stands!!! EVERYONE NEW THAT TEAM WAS FILLED WITH STRAIGHT PLAYERS. This is such bullshit and the fact that the article is skewed towards minority racial profiling is also bullshit. If you want to play in the GAY World Series, you’re either GAY (including bi-sexual) or you’re straight. These guys OBVIOUSLY didn’t want to say they were Gay, because theyre not but they were ok with calling themselves bi-sexual. Well, sorry, that doesn’t work. We can’t have straight men claiming to be bi-sexual just so they can play in a GAY tournament. That’s called a loop-hole.

This is so crazy stupid.

Losers just want money. I’ve never heard of a straight person crying to be gay. What a waste of time, money, and effort on behalf of a team that clearly CHEATED.

Thats what you get for bringing your wives, girlfriends, and kids….stupid idiots.

I was there as well. Those guys have been around the SF league for many years, and have gone to the series as well. In the past no one complained but now they finally are able to compete and people complain.

There are rules and people should abide by them.

Very good, let's base the decision to protest on how long you've been violating the rules. That's logical. Rather than give people incentive to follow the rules, we'll reward hiding your violations long enough so that people will grandfather your misgivings in. Honey, I've been sleeping with other men. But, I've been doing it for so long, how can you now say it's wrong?

Fact, NAGAAA is a private, non-publicly funded organization. For all intents and purposes, they really can't, in the eyes of the law, discriminate because private organizations aren't, typically, bound by those laws.

Fact, the players willingly and knowingly attended the event, agreed to abide by the rules, signed a roster acknowleding they'd abide by the rules, rolled the dice, played multiple games and got caught.

Now, I don't subscribe to the common notion that sexuality determines someone's athletic ability. Therefore, from a competitive standpoint, I don't care how many straight players are on a team. However, I do believe that NAGAAA is a club for gay people, run by gay people. At the point where this identity becomes lost and one, single gay person feels uncomfortable playing ball in a NAGAAA league or event, the organization has compromised itself.

Get with it, all. This lawsuit is nothing more than a very transparent and week attempt at a poorly run, minimally supported, nothing organization to use cloak the destroyed pride of three crybabies in civil rights.

They each signed a roster saying they complied with NAGAAA's roster rules and they lied. Didn't their right to claim those rules violated their civil rights go away

I was there and had seen D2 play before and believe me they did not have the same team. Every other city follows this rule and you are telling me that A SAN FRANCISCO team can't find enough gay athletes to play on their team!

So, to clarify, you support the Boy Scouts of America not allowing gays to join their organization?

How about country clubs that don't allow minorities? Is that okay?

I am a reporter for KIRO TV, chennel 7. I would really like to talk with anyone who was at the World Series – like you -who has firsthand knowledge of D2 and what they were doing. Thanks!
Karen O'Leary 206 718-9614

I asked you NICELY, to PLEASE stop trying to Guess what i'm “IMPLYING.” I said “CHEAT” because ALL the men in question KNEW the rules and AGREED to abide by them. Then, they BROKE said Rules. Whether or not it was or wasnt “Discriminatory” is irrelevant. They Broke THEIR Word. They KNOWINGLY attempted to deceive.

As far as the Boy Scout Law Suit, i MAY Be mistaken, but i Believe they Gays LOST. Just as this SHAM of a Suit will, too, be dismissed. In My Opinion, These Straight men (by The NAGAAA Definition THEY, THEMSELVES, agreed to abide by) Gave up their “Civil Rights” when the agreed to the rules. The SAME Rules Everyone agrees Too.

I am familiar with this team and every year they seem bring MORE and MORE Straight men (complete with Wife and Kids) to the Series. Some are willing to lie and say they are gay (WITH Wifey and kids in Tow), some Wont. Some will “Own Up TO” BIsexual, (Again, WITH Wifey and Kids Sitting next to them) and some Wont.

Michael, when ADULTS agree to abide to a set of rules set up by a PRIVATE Organization, and then break them, ADULTS can Expect CONSEQUENCES. They FINALLY Got Called out on their BLATANT Flaunting of the RULES, year after year, The rules to which they AGREED to Abide.

NOW, years later, they are having Delayed “Sour Grapes” and want to PRETEND their Civil Rights were violated when they got Caught CHEATING. I wont bore you with the Definition of “Cheating” (one of the other readers did it for me).

There are LITERALLY tens of THOUSANDS of Softball leagues for Straight men where they can compete with Other Straight men. There is ONLY ONE, where Gay men can compete with OTHER GAY MEN. We allow the “80/20″ rule, Not to be “Fair” to straight men, but because some men are more comfortable “Coming Out” in an Athletic Setting. This team added More and More Straight men, year after year until they finally almost Took the championship. I'm not sure WHY they get their jollies Playing with the Gay boys but if they are going to DO IT, they Need to DO IT According to the rules or NOT Do it at ALL.

Just how this gay man sees it.

you’re either GAY (including bi-sexual) or you’re straight

Those are fighting words. I'm bisexual, and I sure as hell am neither gay nor straight. After putting up with twenty-odd years' worth of biphobic bullshit from too many lesbians and gay men, I'm definitely not about to redefine my identity as gay. Nor do random histrionic gay guys get to tell me what my sexual orientation is. Not even when they use a LOT of CAPITAL LETTERS.

As for wives, girlfriends, and kids — go screw your head back on and think for a minute. Any bisexual of any gender may have a wife and kids. That's a perfectly respectable and reasonable life path for a bisexual person. Doesn't make them any less bi.

All that said, I'm blown away that the NCLR has taken the case. Twenty years ago, I never would have imagined that anything called the “National Center for Lesbian Rights” would be standing up for us bisexuals against biphobia and bi-invisibility in the LGBT community. Between this and the work they're doing on behalf of Clay Greene, they've become an intriguing organization. There really has been progress.

Fact, NAGAAA is a private, non-publicly funded organization.

They do, however, use public facilities. Perhaps our public ballfields should not be open to clubs that exclude people based on their sexual orientation.

Beth, the Rules they Agreed to AHEAD of time, Says that bisexual are considered “Straight.” They knew that before they got to the Seattle.

I dont Need “Clarification.” My POINT Being, if the gays arent allowed in the boys scouts because Private Organization CAN have their own rules, This League has the right to have It's Own Rules. They cant have it both ways.

I dont agree with discrimination but if they are allowed it than we are too….

What's “Fair” of one group, is “Fair” for all, Right?

Um, Most of us PAY for (and, sometimes, TOP DOLLAR) the public facilities they use…and they dont “Exclude People Based on their Sexual Orientation.” They only allow so many in the line up at a time.

AGAIN, a team may have as MANY Non-gays as it wants on it's roster. But Only two may be in the line up at a time. Do TRY to get it right. The Non-gay players are made aware of this when they Start to play in the league.

Hey SouthFL.

i hate to contradict you, since we Probably know each other….but, it's my understanding that “Bisexuals” are considered “Non-Gay” when it comes to the 80/20 rule…..has that changed?

Just because “they” are allowed to, doesn't make it right. We can, and should, lead by example. Your “us vs. them” attitude does a major disservice towards the community.

As I said earlier, the ECSA does not discriminate, because they/we recognize that alliances are more important than self-segregation. You may not agree, but that doesn't make you right.

I'm curious what the State's anti-discrimination laws say about this in particular. I know that exclusion based on sexual orientation is illegal, but does that also include disallowing groups that do so to use public facilities?

Assuming you're right, I don't see how you have problem with bi people have wives and kids. A bi person is someone who is attracted to BOTH and don't tell me that you've never met a gay man who's been married to woman before and who's had kids.

Also I looked on the NAGAAA website and this is what it said on their homepage:

Created in 1977, the North American Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance (NAGAAA) is a 501c(3) organization that promotes amateur sports competition, particularly softball, FOR ALL PERSONS REGARDLESS OF AGE, SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR PREFERENCE, with special emphasis on the participation of members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) community: and to otherwise foster national and international sports competition by planning, promoting and carrying out amateur sports competition.

ALSO if you looked at the facts and read the lawsuit, when NAGAAA decided that bisexuals weren't ok to play they broke Washington State law. TALK ABOUT BREAKING RULES.

Before this becomes a human rights discussion, think about this. If you play in a Co Ed league there are rules that state how many girls have be on the field. If you don't like the rules you don't play in a Co Ed league. Every league has some sort of restriction/rule that is why these leagues exist! NAGAAA was created to promote LGBT athletics and that is why it exists.
Plus the 3 guys suing are married with kids or had their girlfriends with them at the World Series and the players were not harassed. We can argue for days, the matter of the fact is; D2 a team from San Francisco picked up players, for whatever the reason may be, that were not eligible to play on their team in order to get an edge. In my book they got caught cheating, whether you agree with the rule or not.
Don't forget there were 2 other guys in question too. Come on, we all knew they had 5 straight guys playing. Not that these guys were any better than the gay athletes in “A”, but this rule/restriction has been in place for years and heading to each gay world series every team is reminded. Why sue now?!?! Because they got caught!!

As a “straight” player in NAGAAA since 1998, I have long questioned the “2 straight” rule. Are we saying that straight players are inherently better than gay players? And define for me straight. (Personally I believe there is no gay or straight, only points on a spectrum in between.) The comment the board member made about it not being the BiSexual World Series is asinine, exclusionary and completely contrary to what I feel the spirit on NAGAAA is (or should be). I know plently of players that used to be married and have kids. Are they bi (and therefore straight) by NAGAAA rules?

It is sad that I have been forced more than once to choose teams based on the number of “straight” players on that team, and not on the wonderful friendships I have developed over my years. I sincerely hope this makes NAGAAA take a long look at revising an outdated, discriminatory rule. That being said, the rule (if not the definition) IS clearly defined, and it should not come as a surprise to the players involved. Rules are rules – even when they are dumb.

There's only one problem with your line of thinking Beth: the Boy Scouts is a private organization and in many cases they use public schools to recruit membership as well as for their meeting sites.

I love that these straight guys are suing based on discrimination. Welcome to my world! I can't get married, adopt children, or sue for wrongful death if anything happens to my partner. So at least let us play softball together! There are many private organizations that “discriminate” based on all kinds of things. Can I just show up at some private company's sports league and sue my way in so I can play? Can I sue my way into the Freemasons? Can I as a male sue my way into the Daughters of the American Revolution? No, why? Because they are all private organizations, and as such may choose who they do and don’t let in! NAGAAA understands that straight allies are important, hence why they allow 2 players identified as “straight” onto teams' rosters. But at the end of the day, it is a private organization. While we welcome everyone into our leagues, for this one tournament, it has been decided by all the member cities to keep the World Series a mostly gay event. Additionally, most member cities host their own tournaments which DO NOT have such a restriction, so there are ample opportunities for these guys to play in other NAGAAA events!

I have been a member of the Big Apple Softball League in NYC for many years. I played for several years before I discovered that the Team Managers were required to fill-out a form identifying the sexuality of each member. This was a NAGAAA requirement. I told various people in the League heirarchy that I thought the practice was not only illegal, but insulting to everyone who had ever been discriminated against because of their sexuality. If someone where to walk into a real estate or employment agency and be asked what is your sexuality most people would immediately take action. I also brought up the issue of how do we count who is gay. Is bi- half straight, so does two bi-s make a straight? Also brought up the issue of transgender and gender queer and how this folks are counted? No answers could be given because it is an illegal and outrageous practice. The LGBTQ community should open their arms to all people who wish to join us in our activities.

That's the issue, though. This should be an equal rights discussion, and NAGAAA should be ashamed of such an exclusionary and discriminatory policy. All of the defense of NAGAAA a la “the Boy Scouts can do it” is bullshit.

And what's to say married with kids doesn't mean someone can be “bisexual” (which is considered “straight” by NAGAAA, again, bullshit)? Hell, I've been married before, and have a daughter, but that never qualified me as straight. Were you in these respective couples bedroom for their evening fun time?

What NAGAAA should do, IMO, is settle with the three guys for a nominal amount, but, more importantly, include a rule change in the settlement that no longer allows for discrimination based on sexual orientation.

And, just for fun, what players received from the ECSA Commissioner yesterday:

ECSA Manager, Players, Coaches, and Fans –

As many of you have already noticed in news accounts, three players from a San Francisco team participating in the 2008 Gay Softball World Series filed suit yesterday against NAGAAA, the national sanctioning body which operates the tournament.
Their team was found to be in violation of NAGAAA’s rule limiting World Series rosters to two non-gay players.

I’m writing you today to remind and clarify for everybody in our ECSA softball community of a couple important points:

• ECSA has no limitations on straight players. In fact, there is nothing in our rules or by-laws one way or the other regarding sexual orientation. Our purpose is providing a safe and fun environment for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people – plus our straight friends and allies. We place no limits on our rosters for playing in our local league.

• ECSA is not a party in the lawsuit. Although the 2008 Gay Softball World Series was held in Seattle, the softball tournament is operated by NAGAAA. As the local host, our organizing committee was primarily responsible for events and hospitality. NAGAAA operates everything related to the tournament itself, including the rules of play.

Players, as well as the broader gay community and the public at large, may understandably debate the merits of the players’ case as well as the wisdom of NAGAAA’s by-laws. My main request is that you remain cautious about engaging in speculation, rumor, or hearsay accounts of the case. It will likely take a good deal of time to sort everything out.

In the meantime, the environment we've created through our league in Seattle is being enjoyed this year by a record number of teams and players. On behalf of the rest of the Board, we remain committed to providing an environment of competition and fun for the Seattle GLBT community and its allies.

If you or other concerned parties have any questions, please feel free to direct them to me at jeffcard@gmail.com.

All the best –

Jeff Card, Commissioner
ECSA Open Division

Ok!!!! Started in 1977, the North American Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance is a non-profit, international organization comprised of men and women dedicated to promoting amateur athletics for the gay and lesbian community, specifically softball. Why not go start NABAAA? As a Lesbian I have played softball for 35 years and I have played in every league I could possibly play (Co-Ed, Women’s, Gay and Lesbian). Never once have I tried to join a Men’s Team. WHY? Because it was against THE RULES! I have played in Tournaments that have only allowed 2 Non Hispanics. I had friends of many ethnicities and they could not play. There have been tournaments I could not play in. Did I complain and sue? Hell NO! I did not even Attempt it because I FOLLOWED THE RULES! These are the rules that we all have to Abide By, BUT because This Is a Gay League We Should Not discriminate?!? REALLY? Every Single League has its own Restrictions! I Am Not Sure Why This Is Such an Issue? I Commend the Gay League for accepting some Straight and Bisexual Players into the League when truthfully they don’t have too. We are not slamming the door in people’s faces or saying we are better in Any Way, HOWEVER this is a SAFE Haven for Lots of Gays and Lesbians. It is about being YOU without all the BS! We can bring our Partners, Children, and Friends out and not be ashamed. We can have Unity and Understanding with someone that goes through the same struggles we go through Every Single Day. None Gay People are So Quick to turn it Around on Us. These 3 players knew the rules coming into it and quite frankly I have absolutely no sympathy for them. They tried to bypass the rules and got caught. They were embarrassed? And? I am just not sure why they would want to sue for their own Stupidity and their Inability to follow the Rules!

Didn't King County (or maybe Seattle) just pass a law that private organizations that discriminate can't use public facilities? Was this tournament held on public property?

Yes it was, and in 2008…

Apparently you cannot read! They were not discrimated against. You are allowed 2 players that are not gay or lesbian. If they did not allow any at all that is discrimination. They had 3!

Discrimination against bisexuals by gays and lesbians is just as bad as discrimination of gays and lesbians by straights. It's LGBT, not LGT.

And California marriage law doesn't discriminate against gays because they allowed (a lot more than) two gay couples to get married.

And, just to hit on the “years later” bit – a thing about civil law is that it all starts with pre-filing negotiations with the defendant's insurance and/or attorney. It is likely that these broke down for whatever reason, which is what led to the case actually being filed.

I am sorry, that's just wrong. If an employer says “we'll hire 2 African Americans but no more than that,” it's discrimination pure and simple. A quota that limits the number to 2 is just as illegal as a quota that limits the number to zero.

The fact that I have to pay taxes and not get the same freaking rights as anyone else is enough said. How about California's Prop 8? You gave it and took it away. I have nothing personal against hetero or bi-sexuals, however you seem to think that you can jump all over a private organization just because you think they are taking something from you. We have been discriminated by a lot of people for a long time. We have to fight for everything. I cannot marry the woman I love in my state because the law says I can't. You seem to feel that you can come in and do what you want. They agreed to the rules in advance and are now pissed off because they got caught. How stupid is that? Again they agreed to the rules before the tournament. You twist the rules as you see fit and could care less that these rules were put in place for a reason. They refuse to accept any responsibility in the matter. It is childish and ignorant!

Yes we've been discriminated for a long time, which is more the reason we shouldn't turn around and do it other people (especially members of our own community or our allies).

Also even if NAGAAA is a private organization, if they used public fields in Seattle then they've violated Washington state law with their 2 straight player rule.

You are comparing apples and oranges and twisting it to fit your needs. They knew the rules going in! What part of that do you not get? They want to complain and cry and want the rules to conform to them. Why even have a gay league? Why even have a co-ed leagues? Why even have Women's leagues? Why even have Men's leagues? More to the point why even have seperate bathrooms? There are differences! I cannot see why the ignorance is so great on this subject. We gays and lesbians have something that is our own, and even after all that we are not excluding ALL! We have something that for decaded hell even centuries that we have struggled and fought for. Your complaint is we are discriminating against everyone else. Well WELCOME TO OUR WORLD! We have to hide our lovers, friends, and yeah even sometimes we have to hide it from schools for our Children to not be treated any differently. How do you like them APPLES? You have every right in the world and do not have to struggle with any of it. It is our money that goes to FIGHT for Rights that MOST of the people in the USA get for FREE! It is OUR Money that pays for the LEAGUE! We are not taking a DIME from you. Should I get the right to tell you What your Money Goes To? Then What Gives You The Right To Say Anything About MINE?!?!?!

I too have a problem with the protest occurring in the Championships (last two days)… I am sure that everyone was aware of the situation prior to this moment. These type of protest and ratings protest should all be done prior to the finals. I have played in 6 or 7 GSWS tournaments and have myself suffered through a protest in the Championship game, based on ratings and it is very disheartening. Fortunately, we won the protest!

I am glad you brought your families out and that you support the Gay community. We welcome you all! But, I do have a problem if you where not willing to disclose you true identity. Only you know the truth. I hope you continue to play in the league and participate in the Series. Only make sure that your team abides by the rules. It is sad when the whole team has to suffer; and suffer they do/have.

We are not excluding all. That is a fact! How would you like it if none were allowed? I mean seriously. You act like we are the bad guys. The truth is that these players knew the rules and did what they wanted anyway. Let's go break rules! Do you see how ignorant and silly it all becomes?

The truth is it is My Money and My Choice to play in the league! And the truth of the matter is I drive from out of town to play. I drive a 100 miles each way just to play on a team of my Peers. The city I live in does not offer this type of league. So if I sacrafice to play with My Peers and follow the rules….WHY Then Should I have to Change for Straights or Bisexuals? I just want to play ball with people that I adore and feel safe around. I signed up for the Gay League not the Whatever League.

I am amazed at how many people argue that because we have been discriminated against that makes it okay for to do the same.

This mindset baffles me and is a somewhat morally bankrupt position. Basically says to me that these people dont care about discrimination as long as they are allowed to do the discriminating.

NAGAA is an organization that discriminates based on sexual orientation. You can alway come up with reasons to defend why they choose to discriminate but so can every other organization with similar policies.

“I want my boys to be in a safe environment, so the Boy Scouts really should not allow gays to be included”

“I dont want some lesbian looking at me in a sexual manner, makes me uncomfortable, so lets makes this just a Straight Women's Softball League”

Every group can come up with a defense to exclude whatever group they want.

So is what NAGAA did legal? probably. But more important, is it ethical, given our desire to end discrimination based on sexual orientation. That would be no.

It is sad that we put up barriers around our community then complain that we are outcasts and isolated.

would go with MLK on this one “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere”

Just because you are intolerant doesn't mean the league should be. Your intolerance of bisexuals is especially troubling, considering that they, too, are part of the cause.

I'm just proud that I'm a member of ECSA, a league that is open to all, and does not discriminate.

In Clean and Sober softball leagues place restrictions on who can and can not play based on the relative time the individual “drank or used (drugs)”.

So the NAGAA should clarify that each player MUST have engaged in an homosexual act within the past 30 days OR not engaged in a hetrosexual act with in the last year OR both hetrosexual and homosexual within that last 30 days.

But then that would be discriminating on one's ability to “get some”.

Then maybe they should remove all laws that bar discrimination. Afterall it is my store, my business; I worked hard for it. What gives you the right to say who I can or can't hire, or who I can or can't take as a customer. What gives you the right to say anything about the property I own, the business I own, the practice I own.

Yes, they knew the rules. Yes they probably cheated. But if you believe that discrimination based on sexual orientis wrong then you have to belive that the rules are wrong.

Now if you believe that such discrimination is ok, then there is no problem. Your view is consistent.

MY problem is that most these organizations are filled with people who complain about discrimination based on sexual orientation (remember the vitriol against the Boy Scouts and how bad an organization they are because they discriminate) and then turn around and say well if we do the discriminating it is ok (usually followed by some excuse as to why it is ok when WE do it).

If you are ok with this, then you have no legs to stand on to complain about other groups or individuals discriminating.

If you are fine with discrimination, the

I let one gay (or black or christian) into my store a month, so I dont exclude against them, I just limit my exposure to them.

This was your personal choice to play on the ECSA. I Chose to play with NAGAAA. What's the PROBLEM?

Wes has a good point: This rule only applies to one tournament, not to other leagues, tournaments or teams. The media and bloggers have misrepresented this like crazy the past few days.

Also, however: I have played for a Microsoft sports team as a non-Microsoft employee, and DAR scholarship money helped me get through college.

If ECSA is so great, it should disassociate itself from NAGAAA. Clearly, NAGAAA does not share ECSA's values.

Actually, Todd, if you look at the Bylaws and Softball Code on the NAGAAA website, they limit the number of “heterosexual” (as defined in their document) players to 2 per ROSTER, not 2 per Line-Up. Your statement implies that a team could have, for example, 12 gay players and 6 non-gay players on the Roster (Rosters are limited to 18 total players), as long as only 2 of the non-gay players are on the active fielding/hitting lineup. That's NOT what the NAGAAA rules say.

The rules actually specify that only 2 of those 18 players on the Roster can be “Heterosexual” (though their definitions of “Gay” and “Heterosexual” completely overlook/exclude bi-sexual and transgender players).

That, I think, is the crux of the issue.

NAGAAA Softball Code, Section 7.05:

“Heterosexual players – A maximum of two Heterosexual players are permitted on a GSWS roster.
a) A team in violation of the Heterosexual player guidelines shall be subject to disciplinary action that
may include but is not limited to:
1) Permanent suspension of the Heterosexual player from future GSWS and Open Division
events.
2) Disqualification and forfeiture of all the offending team’s games.
3) One year’s suspension of the team’s Manager.
4) A minimum $100.00 fine imposed against the team’s Association.
b) In addition to a) above, any Association official in violation of or having assisted in a violation is
subject to disciplinary action that may include, but is not limited to:
1) Permanent suspension as an Association representative to the Open Division.
2) One year’s suspension of the Association official from participation in all Open Division
activities including the GSWS.
3) A minimum $100.00 fine imposed against the official's Association.
4) Forfeiture of all games played by all the teams representing the official's Association prior
to the discovery of a violation.”

They aren't straight guys, genius. They're bisexual. Read the post and learn something before you get self-righteous.

Would you believe, this is not a new story, back in 1978, I played on the Championship Oil Can Harry's softball team, that won the right to represent San Francisco in the 2nd Gay World Series in N.Y. Before the season started, there were no quota system in place and, The Gay Community Softball League accepted the invitation… it was the first Organized softball league in the country. However, our league had non-gay players, who agreed to accept the different lifestyles of the players. Half way through the season… Commissioners of the 5 leagues met in Toronto, and put the quota system in, with S.F. abstaining. When it comes to sports… rules are in place before a season begins, and there fore we accepted the invite. I have posted the story of the 1978 season on my blog, that includes a CITATION from Mayor George Moscone, praising our team for the diversity of the players… saying it represented the great diversity of the City of S.F., just months later… he and Harvey Milk were assassinated. Mayor Moscone through out the first pitch of our league's Opener in front of 2,000 fans. PLEASE READ THE STORY…
OUR TEAM and LEAGUE WAS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD of TIME. There are also more images… I am Proud to have been part of that team, and
later was inducted into the S.F. Gay Softball League Hall of Fame. THANK YOU, Jerry
http://www.jerrypritikin.blogspot.com

I'm not really sure who you are but before you come onto any web site maybe YOU should learn the rules of the league you play in. As a manager of the BASL no team is required to identify anyone's sexuality within the league the ONLY time the question even comes up is for the teams attending the World Series. Please learn the correct facts before you speak or come on as a representative of the BASL.

Big Apple Player… please take a look at my blog,
jerrypritikin.blogspot.com/

because my team, that won the right to represent S.F. in the 1978 GWS, were kicked OUT for having too many “straights” on our roster. But more important, read the “Citation” given to our team by Mayor Moscone… who was assassinated with Harvey Milk, just a few months later. This was over 30 years ago, at the time of Anita Bryant,
and the Briggs Initiative, that had it passed, would of made it legal to fire all gay teachers in California. It failed with the help of mostly non-gay votes! It was the best of both worlds playing together… on and off the playing field.

Well said.

I was there when D2 was protested out. I was also there on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday when the other A teams were talking about how D2 had too many STRAIGT players on their team. I think it was wrong that they waited all the way up until the championship game to protest. It should have been taken care of from the start. I do believe D2 should have been protested out for breaking the rules. I coach a team and I do have straight players. My team and I go by the rules stated by NAGAAA. We pay a lot of money to be protected by NAGAAA's rules and to be allowed to play in a league where we can be ourselves. I can't tell you the number of straight tournaments we have played in where we have been heckled, discriminated against, etc. It is nice to have a league where we do not have to deal with anything like this.

Oh and my final statement. These guys were straight at the World Series and now they are claiming bisexuality. I claim bullsh!t. Also it was not just 3 players. It was 5 players. Only 3 have decided to file a lawsuit.