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Council Moving Closer to McGinn on 520 Light Rail

The city council appears to be moving closer to Mayor Mike McGinn’s point of view on replacing the 520 bridge over Lake Washington. McGinn, recall, wants to build light rail (or at least “high-capacity transit,” AKA bus-rapid transit), plus four general-purpose lanes, on 520, which would necessitate changes to the bridge design. The state department of transportation (WSDOT) and state legislature, meanwhile, want to build a six-lane bridge—two HOV lanes, plus four general-purpose lanes. And the city council is currently drafting a letter stating their position on the replacement options. That letter is due April 15, the final day for public comment on the bridge.

Until now. According to Transportation Choices Coalition policy director Bill LaBorde, who spoke this afternoon at a forum on this year’s state legislative session, the council seems poised to “support the [center] lanes [on the bridge] being dedicated to transit only and being adaptable to high-capacity transit—either bus rapid transit or light rail.” Council member Tim Burgess, a member of the transportation committee, confirms that the council is moving toward a push for a more transit-friendly bridge, saying, “the mayor and his consultant [have] shown a way to facilitate making the bridge light-rail ready” or BRT-ready, Burgess said.

What’s at stake? McGinn argues that if WSDOT moves forward with the legislature’s preferred option, it will make it impossible to build light rail later. There are three major changes that would have to be made to include rail on the bridge—two of them relatively minor, one of them less so.

First, the bridge might have to be wider, although it’s probably possible to put rail on a narrower bridge by shrinking the size of the shoulders. Second, the pontoons that support the floating bridge would have to be larger, to carry the extra weight of light rail. Extra pontoons would be added later, but would cost more than simply building bigger pontoons now. Finally, and most dauntingly, a bridge designed for light rail would have to allow the two center light-rail (or BRT) lanes to lift up and head north toward Sound Transit’ light-rail station at Husky Stadium instead of continuing directly west, as the preferred option would do. That’s one of the main reasons McGinn says the state has to consider light rail now, rather than in the future.

Burgess confirms that the council will also likely push for “transit prioritization” on two of the four general-purpose lanes in either 520 scenario. Prioritization, in case it’s not obvious, isn’t the same thing as devoting the lanes to transit or even HOVs; instead, it involves things like allowing buses to jump ahead of cars in line and adding special signals for buses.




  • http://www.google.com/profiles/Communicate.with.Mike Mr. Baker

    And it would cost more, east siders are going to have to step up to their end of the bridge.

  • thepeoplehavespoken

    From all I've witnessed over the years, the lack of creativity as to bridge design has been stunning. Last night at Council Chambers an architect presented a beautiful cable-stay bridge design, which could be pulled off in a four lane width configuration, with light rail BELOW the bridge deck. Hey, if a concerned citizen can pull off a cool bridge that works within the existing foot print (or a lot better, in this case, as water of lake is not impeded by expensive, ginormous, floating concrete (sound funny, anyone?) pontoons, then why can't the big league get a gorgeous solution together?

    My suggestion is to put those temp pontoons under the existing bridge, and charge our city officials with seeing to it we get a functional bridge, designed for moving people and goods, with an eye to the future, when single vehicles will be prohibitively expensive to use 'en masse'.

  • thepeoplehavespoken

    Sorry, just have to add that once again, and always, the City is WAY behind the curve . . . and really should get on the ball. NEITHER the Mayor nor the Council is requiring a beautiful bridge. And I have never heard anyone ask: Who, exactly, is benefitting from the contracting of so much tonnage of concrete pontoons? Who's the contractor? Why does WA state have the majority of this type of 'floating concrete' bridges in the . . . world??

  • MooseMiller

    And I suppose that if someone told you they had built a DeLorean that would transport you to 1955 once you hit 88 mph you would believe that too, right?

  • Northender

    How does any light rail get from 520 to the stadium transit center from the center lanes??? WSDOT and ST better not proposed a high rise bridge across the Montlake Cut… We still have the problem of 520 intersecting with I-5. Doesn't work!!!!

  • Robert_Cruickshank

    Leadership makes a big difference. McGinn is bringing it. Well done.

  • Facts get in the way

    Floating bridges are just a plain bad idea and aren't used to any extent in the rest of the world. Cable-stay bridges are very common.

    Floating bridges last about 75 years. They are the disposables of bridge technologies.

  • Dan

    Yes, McGinn is demonstrating true leadership. Glad to hear the Council is noticing.

  • tpn

    I just watched the Huey Long documentary. McGinn critics might take a look; lots of parallels.

  • Sugar Boy

    yes, I agree. It's time for McGinn to go ballistic and denounce the big money interests, and tell us we're all a buncha hicks being taken for a ride with these lame politicians who fool us into thinking we're so green then just want to pour mountains of concrete and asphalt on their huge megaroad projects. Step it up McGinn, and go see that Sean Penn speech in all the king's men. That's some damn fine messaging. You have to kind of let go and tell the truth, or else no one can hear you!

  • "Measure twice, cut once!"

    Northender: I would suggest a rail station elevated over the 520 roadway, near montlake overpass, then rail passengers can walk across the cut to the uw station….then the rail can continue to go to downtown, going above th freeway. where the rail goes after getting to Seattle is key. That's what need to be planned, now, too. If there is some way to get it to north side of the cut, fine, but then how to get it out to Ballard? Unclear. Needs to be planned now before we start building. Also, the light rail tunnel under the cut has limited capacity so any rail line from Ballard connecting to the light rail in that tunnel sort of overloads it. Another possible solution would be to do what would have made sense in the first place which is put a transfer station SOUTH of the cut, this could also serve the montlake neighborhood. The key is making the transfer point work. If riders can walk a bit, fine, or a station where the two rail lines meet has to be either north of the cut requiring the rail to cross the cut or south of the cut (adding another station to the presently being built light rail).

    the point is all this has to be planned now!

  • Ryan C

    The Councilmembers may not have long-term vision but they are finally looking down the road at their re-election campaigns and seeing either a dead end or a (metaphorical) train full of happy supporters.

  • Reading is Fundamental

    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr520bridge/qu…

    “Why is WSDOT building a floating bridge over Lake Washington as opposed to a conventional suspension bridge?

    A conventional suspension bridge over Lake Washington would not work for several reasons:

    Suspension bridges need to travel in a fairly straight line. Because SR 520 is a curved corridor, a suspension bridge would not be possible.

    The deepest point in Lake Washington is 214 feet deep, and the bridge’s support towers would have to be approximately 630 feet in height, nearly the height of the Space Needle, to support the bridge. These massive towers would be out of character with the surroundings because it would create more noise and block views.

    Conventional fixed bridges, such as the new bridge over the Tacoma Narrows, are expensive to build in deeper waters with soft beds, such as Lake Washington.”

    re:McGinn's plan (warning: run on sentence)
    Yes, let's spend 4 or 5 billion on a new bridge that has NO HOV lanes for cars — not now or ever — and does nothing to improve the commute of 90%+ of corridor users, just so that 15 or 20 years from now, if Sound Transit can secure additional voter approved funding AND figure out an alignment that the Eastside and Montlake are willing to bless, we can have a SECOND light rail line connecting Seattle to the Eastside even though the current design can support light rail anyway. I'd say that's definitely worth the extra cost and delay. This isn’t about being pro light rail, it’s about being anti-car, which is fine if you’re honest about it.

  • Cleve

    This year there are many state legislature races — senators like Jacobsen and state representatives, too, two for each legislative district. We need to make sure the state legislators are focused on maximing the transit benefits of any new 520 and any deep bore tunnel, too. It's time these projects were designed as multimodal facilities — with integrated transit designs, instead of just focusing on automobiles. Working with the city council on this is great, but the real decision makers are state representatives and state senators.

    We need to ask them “how will you ensure the maximum transit benefit from the new 520 ?”

    and “how are you going to help plan rail on this corridor? how will you work to ensure the new 520 has improved bus routes — faster and more frequent service, carrying more riders — from the first day the new bridge opens?”

    We can no longer just leave transit planning to the local entities. We have to integrate transit into these state level megaprojects. We need an integrated rapid transit web to serve the region and planning it piecemeal, or as after-thoughts or after-market add-ons after each new megaproject is built, won't get us to there.
    “and carry more transit riders from opening day?”

  • debeddy

    @Reading is fundamental: Thanks for that run-on sentence. Well put.

    @Cleve — those local entities are Sound Transit, METRO, Community Transit, Pierce Transit, cities and counties. They do integrate and coordinate w/state interests — and they plan it. I don't think you mean to suggest the state should be planning transit.

    Some of the ideas sound consistent with discussions that have been happening for some years … as Fred Jarrett put it, though, we don't lack right of way across the lake (it's water). We needed to make sure that we have adequate right of way for later rail, and I'm pretty sure we preserved that. Any new ideas have to be costed out, folks … we are not awash in money.

  • Facts get in the way

    “Suspension bridges need to travel in a fairly straight line. Because SR 520 is a curved corridor, a suspension bridge would not be possible.”

    Total bull. Go to link below.

    http://www.malaysiahotelreview.com/langkawi/des…

    “The deepest point in Lake Washington is 214 feet deep, and the bridge’s support towers would have to be approximately 630 feet in height, nearly the height of the Space Needle, to support the bridge. These massive towers would be out of character with the surroundings because it would create more noise and block views.”

    The height of towers is dependent on how many are used. The closer together the shorter the towers. Noise would be about the same and the view issue is debatable. Cable-stay bridges are beautiful.

    “Conventional fixed bridges, such as the new bridge over the Tacoma Narrows, are expensive to build in deeper waters with soft beds, such as Lake Washington.”

    All big bridges are expensive to build. The floating bridge will cost over $6B even without LR. The other consideration is how long the bridge will last. The Oakland Bay Bridge was built in 1936.(Deepest Bridge Pier: 242 feet below water level – 396 feet high) The Brooklyn Bridge was built in 1883.

  • tpn

    yes, he needs to reveal himself for the Green-populist demogogue that he is, as he rewards political allies with jobs and contracts that have little to do with qualifications.

  • TimG

    Northender and Measure twice, cut once!:

    The UW light rail station north of the Montlake Cut serves a much larger travel market than could any station just south of the Cut in the Montlake neighborhood. Since this now-under-construction station is located significantly underground and Sound Transit does include in its long range conceptual plans an east-west link from Ballard to U-District, it makes the most sense to plan for a 520 light rail line to connect at UW via an underground platform perpendicular to the one along the University/ North Link line. Think Washington D.C. Metro stations with crossing lines.

    So, if the station is underground aligned with NE Pacific St., cross the LRT underneath the Cut in a bored tunnel and align the rail right-of-way to rise up and emerge between the east and west bound lanes of 520 near east edge of Foster Island. From there east across the lake, the two light rail lines could be in the center with two vehicle lanes on either side, or the LR lanes could be underneath with the four vehicle lanes on a deck above. So far, the bridge design is especially uninspiring; perhaps someone can inject some flair without added cost to make the bridge look appealing.

    We can start with bus rapid transit (BRT) in the eventual light rail lanes on the main bridge. The tunnel and perpendicular station platform at UW would be added later when Sound Transit plan and fund$ are available. The BRT can remain in the 520 corridor with transit “flyer” stops at Montlake Blvd for ease of connections to north Capitol Hill or the U District with the downtown Seattle-bound/originating buses. Other routes can exit/enter 520 for direct connection to UW and the U-District. The footprint of the interchange can remain acceptable with only two through lanes of traffic in each direction.

    The reversible lane connection from 520 to I-5 express lanes will accommodate the westbound a.m. and eastbound p.m. commutes improving the bus performance for those route significantly. Improvements to the reverse directions would require operating the I-5 express lanes differently, i.e., two-way all the time w/ barrier down the middle.

    debeddy: With too little money to fund the project, WSDOT should be happy to reduce the size of the built project. The Legislature can help by eliminating the “thou shall build 6 lanes” language in the controlling legislation for this project– especially for the segment from Montlake Blvd ramps west to I-5. How about a quick bill to run through both House and Senate before adjournment?

  • debeddy

    Zero chance of reducing the 6-lane agreement. There are far too many governments and agencies involved in this project, signed off on the 6-lane alternative. Besides that, the funding depends on it — you shrink that footprint and tolling goes away – for a long, long time. There is opportunity for design adjustment, agreed, and we're all ready to support adjustments, but there won't be any starting-over.

  • Seriously?

    The depth of Lake Washington makes suspension type bridges (cable stay included) impractical from a cost standpoint (you can tank the glaciers for that). They water is so deep that the towers would have to be over 400 feet talll each. Floating bridges are not necessarily prefered by the DOT (they just completed a very large suspension bridge over the Tacoma Narrows), but in this case, its the only bridge type that is even feasible. The Trans-Lake study looked at all potential bridge types, and suspension bridges were axed for cost reasons.

  • TimG

    Tolling will help show us what size of footprint the region really “needs”. The biggest problem with this project is that we don't already have a year or two of learning from the existing bridge (& I-90 as well) with tolls. The reason the bridge is congested is because its capacity is not properly priced.

    I'm not saying start over. But we need some design adjustments to make this corridor work for high-capacity transit. A configuration with 4 through lanes of traffic from Montlake Blvd ramps west to I-5 will reduce cost and impacts. The transit flyer stops can be retained at Montlake Blvd providing flexibility to transit operations and more options for the traveling public.

  • MudBaby

    As if architects could design bridges–get a grip.

  • Edog

    McGinn does us vs. them very well, but to compare the Mayor to Long, is not a compliment.