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Founded in January 2009, PubliCola is a blog about Seattle written by journalists who are dedicated to non-partisan, original daily reporting that prioritizes a balanced approach to news. Started by longtime local editor and award-winning reporter Josh Feit, PubliCola is the first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol.

PubliCola was off and running. In June 2009, PubliCola hired another award-winning journalist, super-sourced Seattle city hall reporter Erica C. Barnett.

People were afraid that blogging would change journalism. Instead, we believe journalism can change blogging. Twenty-first century journalism may look and feel different, and yes Erica isn't afraid to get cranky, but we're committed to making sure online news still delivers independent, reliable, even-keeled coverage. And most of all, we're committed to making sure the coverage sparks honest civic debate.

Bringing you cola for the people, PubliCola is named after Publius Valerius PubliCola, the alias for the authors of the Federalist Papers—the original bloggers.

The first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol and Seattle city hall, PubliCola has been called a “must-read” by the Seattle Post Intelligencer and a hot “New Media Mover and Shaker” by Seattle Magazine—which also cited our own Erica C. Barnett as the city's No. 1 news nerd.

Obama Hates The Suburbs


[ 1960s subdivision in Medfield, a Boston suburb; click image to enlarge ]

Sticking up for a presumed silent, oppressed majority—real or imaginary—is an unbeatable marketing strategy. Just ask Fox News. And so it goes with noted sprawl apologist Joel Kotkin, who writes:

“A year into the Obama administration, America’s dominant geography, suburbia, is now in open revolt against an urban-centric regime that many perceive threatens their way of life, values, and economic future.”

Joel Connelly exemplified the local version of this pseudo-drama, writing in a column entitled “520 bridge debate shows Seattle at its worst,” that “Seattle politicians should briefly depart from their insular world of interest groups and come [to Medina, the wealthy Eastside suburb] to get a broad view of State Route 520 and how to bridge the problem of cars occupied by just one person. ”

The tired meme goes like this: Those who are critical of the suburbs are an urban elitist minority who don’t understand the suburban way of life, and who hope to use “social engineering” to force suburbanites to swallow a more urban lifestyle. Case in point: State Rep. Ross Hunter, D-Medina, fretting, in Connelly’s paraphrase, that the 520 bridge project “has become a playground for social engineering.”

The first flaw in that argument is that it’s pretty much impossible to be an American and not have had significant direct experience with the suburbs. Our landscape is thick with them, and our culture is drenched in the suburban American dream.

It’s not that critics of the suburbs don’t get the suburbs.

For example, I myself had a wonderful time growing up in a suburb, and have spent the majority of my life in relatively car-dependent environments. Most critics understand the suburbs very well. It’s just that when they combine that understanding with a balanced assessment of people and the planet and the future, the inescapable conclusion is that the suburbs no longer cut it.

The mounting evidence on everything from energy use to land consumption to obesity rates is already familiar, and even the free market has begun to chime in. For example, a new report from the Natural Resources Defense Council found that foreclosure rates were lower in compact, walkable, transit-rich neighborhoods than they were in typical car-dependent suburban neighborhoods.

Meanwhile, demand for housing in walkable urban neighborhoods has risen to the point where real estate analysts like Christopher Leinberger expect that the shortage of supply will likely last for decades. If you want to see social engineering in action, look no further than the mountains of policy, regulations, and public investment that were put in place over decades to promote the suburban model of growth, but that now are impeding the market from meeting the growing demand for a more urban alternative.

Yet to the diehard sprawl apologists, none of that matters. If free people have chosen to live in sprawling suburbs, they posit, then sprawling suburbs are good—end of story. And it follows that anyone who criticizes the suburbs is an elitist who wants to tell others how to live their lives.

The underlying source of that attitude is a toxic combination of American individualism and the invisible hand of the free market writ large. And it’s a sorry state, because there are all kinds of reasons free people make bad choices, and we all lose when individual choice is sacred.

What is truly “Seattle at its worst” is when people are so quick to attack those who question the sanity of spending billions on new freeways, when both history and current trends clearly indicate that doing so will propagate bad choices for decades to come. The truly ”insular” people are those who can’t conceive of any solution to congestion other than building roads.

UPDATE: Rep. Hunter responds in the comments:

I did not say I fretted about social engineering. I don’t.

I don’t agree with the positions attributed to “suburbanites” in the rest of the piece and object to the assumption that only “diehard spawl enthusiasts” support the 520 bridge project. I have a long record of supporting transit funding and improvements in how we manage our growth to produce a more compact, transit oriented King County.

I do care that we as a region can make decisions and move forward. Delay costs $100,000,000 ($100 million) per year. We have been working on this project for well over a decade and have broad agreement on both sides of the lake.

I do care that we can reduce the transit time from Redmond to Seattle in the peak afternoon commute by 40+ minutes. Delaying the bridge leaves transit and carpools in the 520 corridor as an unattractive option for people who care about time.

The 520 bridge serves more people from Seattle who work in the suburbs than people who live on the Eastside and work in Seattle. The capacity that is being added is for 3+ carpools and transit, not GP lanes.

>>>

If suburbia is, as Joel Kotkin claims, in “open revolt,” they missed a prime target last week when the Washington State Trade and Convention Center in Seattle was crawling with the enemy during the New Partners for Smart Growth conference.

Speakers at the conference included Obama appointees U.S. EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson, U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, and U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan. Last summer these three agencies collaborated to create the Partnership for Sustainable Communities. Last week HUD launched a new Office of Sustainable Housing and Communities, DOT established a new Office of Livable Communities, and the EPA announced expanded support for their Office of Sustainable Communities.

The urbanists are on the move.




  • Anc

    I agree with most everything, except when you state that the ‘invisible hand’ of the free market is blame, just a few sentences after you correctly point out all the government regulations and subsidies that prop up suburban sprawl. Do you not see the contradiction there?

  • Anc

    I agree with most everything, except when you state that the ‘invisible hand’ of the free market is blame, just a few sentences after you correctly point out all the government regulations and subsidies that prop up suburban sprawl. Do you not see the contradiction there?

  • ahem

    instead of a car/suburb transit/city dichotomy isn’t the reality that many suburban spots were connected and developed because of rail, many suburbanites use rail today, and we want many people living say about give miles northwest of downtown boston to have a nice rail station to get to downtown…..?

    there’s nothing antisuburban about being pro transit at all. Why buy into the right wing frame that suggests suburban means “no rail”? Or that being pro transit and pro density somehow means we won’t be connected to suburbs via public transit?

    http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/rail/

    While we make the right decisions for density in cities, we should also link up spots of density outside the main city with rail. In fact, we’re talking about rail to Federal Way and Shoreline pretty soon….and historically, suburbs were connected to cities via rail.

  • ahem

    instead of a car/suburb transit/city dichotomy isn’t the reality that many suburban spots were connected and developed because of rail, many suburbanites use rail today, and we want many people living say about give miles northwest of downtown boston to have a nice rail station to get to downtown…..?

    there’s nothing antisuburban about being pro transit at all. Why buy into the right wing frame that suggests suburban means “no rail”? Or that being pro transit and pro density somehow means we won’t be connected to suburbs via public transit?

    http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/rail/

    While we make the right decisions for density in cities, we should also link up spots of density outside the main city with rail. In fact, we’re talking about rail to Federal Way and Shoreline pretty soon….and historically, suburbs were connected to cities via rail.

  • Emerald City

    You start off by explaining the rationale for those who enjoy the suburbs, but then you launch into an unsubstantiated diatribe.

    No wonder we’ll through you crooks out in 2010.

  • Emerald City

    You start off by explaining the rationale for those who enjoy the suburbs, but then you launch into an unsubstantiated diatribe.

    No wonder we’ll through you crooks out in 2010.

  • bob

    520 was the biggest piece of social engineering in these parts.

    Connecting Redmond horse farms to Seattle caused that part of the Eastside to grow much faster than it would have “naturally”.

    Don’t replace it at all. Take the money and build rail around the lake and improved roadways. At $250MM a mile (most of the miles should be relatively cheap above ground ) the $5B for the bridge could build 20 miles of rail.

    At most rebuild 4 lanes.

  • bob

    520 was the biggest piece of social engineering in these parts.

    Connecting Redmond horse farms to Seattle caused that part of the Eastside to grow much faster than it would have “naturally”.

    Don’t replace it at all. Take the money and build rail around the lake and improved roadways. At $250MM a mile (most of the miles should be relatively cheap above ground ) the $5B for the bridge could build 20 miles of rail.

    At most rebuild 4 lanes.

  • matthewsbeachmike

    Emerald City, which crooks are you going to ‘through’ out in 2010? I think we threw the crooks out in 2008.

  • matthewsbeachmike

    Emerald City, which crooks are you going to ‘through’ out in 2010? I think we threw the crooks out in 2008.

  • gloomy gus

    Urbanists’ noisier opponents call “elitism” what in fact is just a fashionable tone that blends moralizing with opportunism. (The NRDC report you cite is an excellent example – one suspects even they aren’t quite sure their conclusion flows from facts.)
    -
    It’s just an unappealing stance, not the basis of the work. When it (finally) falls out of favor there’ll be nowhere for urbanism to go but up. Soon, I hope.

  • gloomy gus

    Urbanists’ noisier opponents call “elitism” what in fact is just a fashionable tone that blends moralizing with opportunism. (The NRDC report you cite is an excellent example – one suspects even they aren’t quite sure their conclusion flows from facts.)
    -
    It’s just an unappealing stance, not the basis of the work. When it (finally) falls out of favor there’ll be nowhere for urbanism to go but up. Soon, I hope.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    “Seattle at its worst”

    that would be processing a solution for 15 years with no end, then pulling a demand for rail out of your asses at the last minute.

    The conflict is greater than the oversimplified urban vs suburban meme.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    “Seattle at its worst”

    that would be processing a solution for 15 years with no end, then pulling a demand for rail out of your asses at the last minute.

    The conflict is greater than the oversimplified urban vs suburban meme.

  • wes kirkman

    As always Dan, you eloquently put my exact feelings when reading these anti-urban/transit pieces. I would like to acknowledge the point I think ahem is trying to discuss: how there is room in the ‘burbs to seek an alternative approach to sustainability. I read a well written piece somewheres (who knows where now) about taking a less us vs. them stance and collaborating on tackling all the issues associated with limitations to our options of mobility.

    Btw: Emerald City, I think you mean “throw”. Also, you might want to elaborate. Not sure who you plan to throw out (Dan maybe?), of where (Publicola? Seattle?), and who plans to do the throwing (you I’m guessing?). However, I will be impatiently awaiting the 2010 throwing event.

  • wes kirkman

    As always Dan, you eloquently put my exact feelings when reading these anti-urban/transit pieces. I would like to acknowledge the point I think ahem is trying to discuss: how there is room in the ‘burbs to seek an alternative approach to sustainability. I read a well written piece somewheres (who knows where now) about taking a less us vs. them stance and collaborating on tackling all the issues associated with limitations to our options of mobility.

    Btw: Emerald City, I think you mean “throw”. Also, you might want to elaborate. Not sure who you plan to throw out (Dan maybe?), of where (Publicola? Seattle?), and who plans to do the throwing (you I’m guessing?). However, I will be impatiently awaiting the 2010 throwing event.

  • John

    The only way we have a prayer of meeting the goals we say we care about, around sustainability and greenhouse gas emission reduction and all the rest, is to make the suburbs work better, by connecting them with rail and taking advantage of any opportunity to build walkable communities within the suburbs, to minimize the demand for long-distance car trips. This is going to be a really, really hard thing to do, but the majority of the country lives in suburbs now. As Dan points out, the market demand is there for housing in walkable communities, now the market needs to start providing them.

  • John

    The only way we have a prayer of meeting the goals we say we care about, around sustainability and greenhouse gas emission reduction and all the rest, is to make the suburbs work better, by connecting them with rail and taking advantage of any opportunity to build walkable communities within the suburbs, to minimize the demand for long-distance car trips. This is going to be a really, really hard thing to do, but the majority of the country lives in suburbs now. As Dan points out, the market demand is there for housing in walkable communities, now the market needs to start providing them.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    I’m glad you wrote this. I grew up in a suburb (at the time): Fremont, Calif., until my parents fled the evils of Prop 13 and moved to Eugene, Oregon, where I lived in something more like a dense exurb (not in city limits, older developments with more property, no sidewalks).

    Most people in the U.S. don’t live in suburbs and cannot live in suburbs. While service jobs have migrated into suburbs, jobs that pay well (design, manufacture, etc.) aren’t found there. The working poor sometimes live in old suburbs or 20 to a house (see Calif. bedroom communities) and endure 1 to 2 hour commutes each way to get to low-paying jobs.

    The fact that the media house price just rose in Seattle is part of the larger story that people want to live close to jobs and want the benefits of a city, even as cities have lots of problems due to size and a million other factors.

    The 520 debate isn’t about getting people in and out of Medina; it’s about how Seattle has a certain car carrying capacity, and the optimism of legislators is that by building a bigger 520, we will magically have additional capacity on the Seattle side.

  • Anc

    Ahem, part of the problem is that the English word ‘suburb’ encompasses many different types of environment. Rail centered suburbs (for instance one of the first Streetcar Suburbs in the US, Brooklyn) tend to be much denser, walkable, and mixed use. Autocentric suburbs like for instance Levittown are the exact opposite.

    Sprawl and suburb DON’T have to be synonymous.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    I’m glad you wrote this. I grew up in a suburb (at the time): Fremont, Calif., until my parents fled the evils of Prop 13 and moved to Eugene, Oregon, where I lived in something more like a dense exurb (not in city limits, older developments with more property, no sidewalks).

    Most people in the U.S. don’t live in suburbs and cannot live in suburbs. While service jobs have migrated into suburbs, jobs that pay well (design, manufacture, etc.) aren’t found there. The working poor sometimes live in old suburbs or 20 to a house (see Calif. bedroom communities) and endure 1 to 2 hour commutes each way to get to low-paying jobs.

    The fact that the media house price just rose in Seattle is part of the larger story that people want to live close to jobs and want the benefits of a city, even as cities have lots of problems due to size and a million other factors.

    The 520 debate isn’t about getting people in and out of Medina; it’s about how Seattle has a certain car carrying capacity, and the optimism of legislators is that by building a bigger 520, we will magically have additional capacity on the Seattle side.

  • Anc

    Ahem, part of the problem is that the English word ‘suburb’ encompasses many different types of environment. Rail centered suburbs (for instance one of the first Streetcar Suburbs in the US, Brooklyn) tend to be much denser, walkable, and mixed use. Autocentric suburbs like for instance Levittown are the exact opposite.

    Sprawl and suburb DON’T have to be synonymous.

  • Anc

    Oh, and congrats on finally getting your own Section. Much easier to navigate. Now they just need to move over your old articles from the past couple weeks.

  • Anc

    Oh, and congrats on finally getting your own Section. Much easier to navigate. Now they just need to move over your old articles from the past couple weeks.

  • process

    I think it helps to clarify that no one–not Obama, not Dan–is saying that the suburbs have to become downtown cores. They just need to offer transportation and housing choices that don’t exist in many of them now. And in many ways, it’s more about going back to a model that we had a century ago, rather than the one from the past 50 years.
    Take Seattle: even in the most urban of the region’s urban center, we are still very car dependent, and have largely defined our neighborhoods around arterial corridors rather than hubs. And now we see the city, through it’s urban village strategy, trying to get back to the original streetcar neighborhoods, where higher density centers existed around the transit network.
    Same thing goes for the suburbs. The model of the last 50 years leaves most suburban residents dependent on cars to meet their daily needs, whereas 100 years ago suburbs had downtowns with mainstreets and (sometimes) transit centers. Many suburbs are trying to get back to that original model that will offer more choices — see plans for Burien, Renton, Bothell.
    Like Dan notes, it’s not so much about social engineering to force people to walk, bike, or take transit. It’s more about undoing the 50+ years of public policy that socially engineered us all to be dependent on our cars.

  • process

    I think it helps to clarify that no one–not Obama, not Dan–is saying that the suburbs have to become downtown cores. They just need to offer transportation and housing choices that don’t exist in many of them now. And in many ways, it’s more about going back to a model that we had a century ago, rather than the one from the past 50 years.
    Take Seattle: even in the most urban of the region’s urban center, we are still very car dependent, and have largely defined our neighborhoods around arterial corridors rather than hubs. And now we see the city, through it’s urban village strategy, trying to get back to the original streetcar neighborhoods, where higher density centers existed around the transit network.
    Same thing goes for the suburbs. The model of the last 50 years leaves most suburban residents dependent on cars to meet their daily needs, whereas 100 years ago suburbs had downtowns with mainstreets and (sometimes) transit centers. Many suburbs are trying to get back to that original model that will offer more choices — see plans for Burien, Renton, Bothell.
    Like Dan notes, it’s not so much about social engineering to force people to walk, bike, or take transit. It’s more about undoing the 50+ years of public policy that socially engineered us all to be dependent on our cars.

  • http://www.rosshunter.com/ Ross Hunter

    I did not say I fretted about social engineering. I don’t.

    I don’t agree with the positions attributed to “suburbanites” in the rest of the piece and object to the assumption that only “diehard spawl enthusiasts” support the 520 bridge project. I have a long record of supporting transit funding and improvements in how we manage our growth to produce a more compact, transit oriented King County.

    I do care that we as a region can make decisions and move forward. Delay costs $100,000,000 ($100 million) per year. We have been working on this project for well over a decade and have broad agreement on both sides of the lake.

    I do care that we can reduce the transit time from Redmond to Seattle in the peak afternoon commute by 40+ minutes. Delaying the bridge leaves transit and carpools in the 520 corridor as an unattractive option for people who care about time.

    The 520 bridge serves more people from Seattle who work in the suburbs than people who live on the Eastside and work in Seattle. The capacity that is being added is for 3+ carpools and transit, not GP lanes.

  • http://www.rosshunter.com Ross Hunter

    I did not say I fretted about social engineering. I don’t.

    I don’t agree with the positions attributed to “suburbanites” in the rest of the piece and object to the assumption that only “diehard spawl enthusiasts” support the 520 bridge project. I have a long record of supporting transit funding and improvements in how we manage our growth to produce a more compact, transit oriented King County.

    I do care that we as a region can make decisions and move forward. Delay costs $100,000,000 ($100 million) per year. We have been working on this project for well over a decade and have broad agreement on both sides of the lake.

    I do care that we can reduce the transit time from Redmond to Seattle in the peak afternoon commute by 40+ minutes. Delaying the bridge leaves transit and carpools in the 520 corridor as an unattractive option for people who care about time.

    The 520 bridge serves more people from Seattle who work in the suburbs than people who live on the Eastside and work in Seattle. The capacity that is being added is for 3+ carpools and transit, not GP lanes.

  • Joshua Daniel Franklin

    Ross, since it was Connelly who misused your quotes perhaps you could also post at the SeattlePI sound off page.

  • Joshua Daniel Franklin

    Ross, since it was Connelly who misused your quotes perhaps you could also post at the SeattlePI sound off page.

  • Doctor_D

    I’m tired of people raising the “time” issue as a reason to move forward NOW! This process was delayed a year by the legislative task force that jumped in after they derailed the mediation process.

    Moreover, I’ll support a good configuration that took 15 minutes to come up with before a bad one that took 15 years to come up with.

    Further, I’m more opposed to the interchange configuration and the widening of Montlake than the 4+2 configuration on the bridge. It’s a woefully anti-human scale configuration that will make the fastest growing forms of transportation in the city (walking and bicycling) demonstrably less safe.

    Finally, it’s important to remember that eastside cities are prone to backpedaling on commitments to rail on the region’s bridges. One need only review the R8A vs R2B fight on the I-90 bridge to see how they cling to any additional car-capacity once it’s in use.

  • Doctor_D

    I’m tired of people raising the “time” issue as a reason to move forward NOW! This process was delayed a year by the legislative task force that jumped in after they derailed the mediation process.

    Moreover, I’ll support a good configuration that took 15 minutes to come up with before a bad one that took 15 years to come up with.

    Further, I’m more opposed to the interchange configuration and the widening of Montlake than the 4+2 configuration on the bridge. It’s a woefully anti-human scale configuration that will make the fastest growing forms of transportation in the city (walking and bicycling) demonstrably less safe.

    Finally, it’s important to remember that eastside cities are prone to backpedaling on commitments to rail on the region’s bridges. One need only review the R8A vs R2B fight on the I-90 bridge to see how they cling to any additional car-capacity once it’s in use.

  • Affordable Density NOW!

    Both sides of the density/sprawl debate have one thing in common. They both think more housing supply alone will bring down housing costs. Both density and sprawl are costly and burden the poor inequitably. Though housing is cheaper in the suburbs, sprawl forces ownership of a car which is expensive. Density creates demand which jacks up housing costs. When is the City of Seattle going to start building affordable housing around light rail and bus rapid transit stations! If SHA had not built around Othello there would be almost no affordable housing around the light rail stations in SE in 5-10 years. Time to step it up McGinn.

  • Affordable Density NOW!

    Both sides of the density/sprawl debate have one thing in common. They both think more housing supply alone will bring down housing costs. Both density and sprawl are costly and burden the poor inequitably. Though housing is cheaper in the suburbs, sprawl forces ownership of a car which is expensive. Density creates demand which jacks up housing costs. When is the City of Seattle going to start building affordable housing around light rail and bus rapid transit stations! If SHA had not built around Othello there would be almost no affordable housing around the light rail stations in SE in 5-10 years. Time to step it up McGinn.

  • jeff

    Ross, There is no broad agreement in favor of the A+ design. The majority of people in Seattle and on the eastside favor transit lanes, a lower profile and preserving the arboretum. The arguments about delay are also silly because the cost of the bridge is twice what we have to pay for it. Finding the missing money will take a lot more time than finding a workable design.

  • jeff

    Ross, There is no broad agreement in favor of the A+ design. The majority of people in Seattle and on the eastside favor transit lanes, a lower profile and preserving the arboretum. The arguments about delay are also silly because the cost of the bridge is twice what we have to pay for it. Finding the missing money will take a lot more time than finding a workable design.

  • Andrew Austin

    Urbanists on the move; love it. Lets go tour Seatac’s finest via its new light rail station. I heart Dan Bertolet.

  • Andrew Austin

    Urbanists on the move; love it. Lets go tour Seatac’s finest via its new light rail station. I heart Dan Bertolet.

  • Wells

    When home foreclosure crisis first became an issue, television spots consistently showed as examples older inner-city homes rather than newer homes in the suburbs. It seemed fishy. Those older homes were more likely to be located near transit corridors, and the result of the previous owner moving to the suburbs. I’ve been waiting for a study to show that more foreclosures occurred in car-dependent suburbs. Did television newscasters misleadingly highlight the examples of foreclosed inner-city homes so that viewers would presume low-income home buyers were to blame? Just asking.

  • Wells

    When home foreclosure crisis first became an issue, television spots consistently showed as examples older inner-city homes rather than newer homes in the suburbs. It seemed fishy. Those older homes were more likely to be located near transit corridors, and the result of the previous owner moving to the suburbs. I’ve been waiting for a study to show that more foreclosures occurred in car-dependent suburbs. Did television newscasters misleadingly highlight the examples of foreclosed inner-city homes so that viewers would presume low-income home buyers were to blame? Just asking.

  • Alive With Freedom!

    Today I enjoyed the Freedom.

    The Freedom of an Asus Intel w/Pine Trail Win7 netbook and Clear Wimax.

    Unfettered computing…11 hours battery life.

    I did not need to plug in to recharge.
    I did not need to visit a way station to Wifi.

    I have Wimax! I go anywhere!

    This is the Freedom.

    The Freedom from the Grid.

    The Freedom from your Urb and its Vexious Taxation!

  • Alive With Freedom!

    Today I enjoyed the Freedom.

    The Freedom of an Asus Intel w/Pine Trail Win7 netbook and Clear Wimax.

    Unfettered computing…11 hours battery life.

    I did not need to plug in to recharge.
    I did not need to visit a way station to Wifi.

    I have Wimax! I go anywhere!

    This is the Freedom.

    The Freedom from the Grid.

    The Freedom from your Urb and its Vexious Taxation!

  • http://publicola.net/ Dan Bertolet

    Ross Hunter: That was sloppy of me to assume that Connelly was expressing your sentiment and I apologize. I should have left you out of it.

  • http://publicola.net Dan Bertolet

    Ross Hunter: That was sloppy of me to assume that Connelly was expressing your sentiment and I apologize. I should have left you out of it.

  • sarah68

    When you say about the suburbs, “They need to provide more xxxx”, just who are you talking about? The existing suburbs aren’t usually a planned development; they’re simply parts of the area with single-family dwellings with single owners. There’s no “they”. Most suburbs are built-out; some have been built-out for 40 years; how do you think they’re going to change? People own the houses; they’re not going to let somebody come in and reengineer their neighborhood. If you’re talking about to-be-built suburbs, then you’ll have to take on the developers. Urban areas haven’t had too much luck with that.

    Also, the NRDC report says people in the suburbs are more likely to be foreclosed than people in compact, walkable neighborhoods. Well, duh; single-family houses cost more than small condos, and more families have gotten into trouble buying bigger houses than they could afford. How about that for something that we didn’t need a report to tell us.

  • sarah68

    When you say about the suburbs, “They need to provide more xxxx”, just who are you talking about? The existing suburbs aren’t usually a planned development; they’re simply parts of the area with single-family dwellings with single owners. There’s no “they”. Most suburbs are built-out; some have been built-out for 40 years; how do you think they’re going to change? People own the houses; they’re not going to let somebody come in and reengineer their neighborhood. If you’re talking about to-be-built suburbs, then you’ll have to take on the developers. Urban areas haven’t had too much luck with that.

    Also, the NRDC report says people in the suburbs are more likely to be foreclosed than people in compact, walkable neighborhoods. Well, duh; single-family houses cost more than small condos, and more families have gotten into trouble buying bigger houses than they could afford. How about that for something that we didn’t need a report to tell us.

  • http://citycomfortsblog.typepad.com/ David Sucher

    Generally speaking, to everyone, he term ” social engineering” means everything and nothing.

    Everything we do in society (by way of laws), from anti-abortion or pro-choice laws, FHA requirements, building codes, OSHA, baby cribs, Oxley/Sarbanes, No Child Left Behind — everything!!! — is by definition “social engineering.” That’s the whole point of law: to do social engineering.

    So if people disagree about policy, fine.

    But let’s delete “social engineering” which is simply a very obvious and disingenuous attempt to frame a dispute on the side you prefer.

  • Luke

    Absolutely. Blaming lower income homeowners who lied to the mortgage broker about their income(when it had to be stated) is still part of the narrative today. In my opinion.

  • joshmahar

    Can I just say the real travesty here is that we, the city of Seattle, just hosted the New Partners for Smart Growth conference and we got NO LOCAL COVERAGE! What the hell guys come on! Publicola couldn't get a press pass for that one? Where was the Stranger on this? What about the Times…actually that one I didn't expect. But honestly, this is pathetic. The Planetizen article links to a Massachusetts article for god's sake.

    And just to rub it in, I'm going to play the Portland card on this. When the Feds showed up in Stumptown to talk about their great new strategy the Oregonian stuck on the front of the BUSINESS section!

    Dan I at least credit you for shout out to the conference.

  • Chuck Wolfe

    @joshmahar, I totally agree and Dan was savvy to get a press pass. The Times included a formula editorial by Donovan/LaHood/Jackson, but I could find next to nothing other than Joel Connelly's interview of Secretary Donovan which was also picked up by Planetizen (other than my City Brights blog entry Friday at seattlepi.com touting Seattle). No mention of the Ron Sims award, etc.–and we all noted the Oregon press and how they owned the issues. Not sure why this was.

  • Seattle_Steve

    Most of Seattle is a big suburb. There's no fight between people who want more compact development and people who don't when it comes to 520. There's a disagreement about the tactics and designs of a neighborhood stocked with single family homes, yards and two yacht clubs and everyone else.

    Montlake's PR machine would like to make it a big fight about something larger than the neighborhood and parts, but it's not, for the vast mass of the rest of Seattle and the region.

    Now Montlake says it just wants to add transit, but says nothing about more dense development to support transit within Montlake, which drives like a nice suburb.

    520 connects major housing and employment centers within an entirely urbanized area. It is rehabilitation of an old structure that a lot of old growth is built around and it comes with an additional carpool and transit lane because everyone wants to make sure that the new bridge serves growth most everyone wants to focus in the urbanized areas around 520, including the huge new urban, transit oriented development – far more dense than Montlake or north Capitol Hill, planned between Bellevue and Redmond along 520.

    People who advocating sustainable development should be leery of hitching their wagon to the Montlake bandwagon on 520. The late breaking Montlake proposal is so ill developed it is laughable as a plan. It was clearly conceived as a public relations stunt = part of a 25 year history of Montlake just saying NO to doing anything.

  • Bacon 'n' Eggs

    Seattle_Steve, you're dead on when you say “most of Seattle is a big suburb.” Hell, I live on Beacon Hill which folks in Medina probably think is the inner city, but I know it's just a classic early 20th-century streetcar suburb. And when presented with a new neighborhood plan, the activists up here just reacted in classic suburban fashion. There are too many people in too many Seattle neighborhoods who give urbanism lip service but don't have a clue what it really is.

    Now, back to the 520 discussion…

  • joshuadf

    sarah68, the study actually looked at similar properties (i.e., comparing single-family houses in two areas). The biggest factor in foreclosure rates was transportation costs. You can't very well ditch a car if it's the only safe way to travel, but if you've got ped/bike/transit options you can. AAA 2009 average cost estimate for a mid-sized sedan is $8095 a year.

  • Chris Stefan

    The statistics tell a very different story. The neighborhoods hardest hit by the foreclosure crisis were almost entirely new developments out on the fringes of their associated metro area. These are also the neighborhoods where the remaining homeowners are likely to be far underwater.

    The foreclosure crisis has hit people across all income levels. The mortgage finance industry had a voracious appetite for new loans so the loans were marketed an sold with a very hard sell to anyone who would sign.

    At the end of the day though it has tended to be lower income people who've been hit the hardest as they are the most likely to agree to get into a loan with crazy provisions they didn't really understand and they are also the most likely to not really have a financial cushion to fall back on.

  • kevinsimpson

    Obama is failing in many aspects of his government. For sure it's something to concern.

    Regards,
    Kevin
    http://www.foreclosurelistings.com/

  • Chris Stefan

    Seattle_steve,
    The fight over the west end of 520 is about much more than just the Montlake neighborhood. It is about preserving the Arboretum which is a regional recreation and wildlife habitat resource. It is about anyone who is walking or biking through the area say to get from the Burke-Gillman trail to the Lake Washington trail or from the UW to the Arboretum. It is about anyone who takes transit through the Montlake area, be it to get from a home in Kirkland to school or work at the UW, or from a home in the Central District to a job on the Eastside.

    The current WSDOT plans are very car-centric and treat pedestrians, bikes, and transit as a bothersome afterthought. The plans dump more cars on I-5 and surface arterials which simply don't have the capacity to handle additional traffic.

    What can be done to make things better? First get rid of the Arboretum ramps entirely, they were a mistake when they were built and don't need to be carried forward in the new design. Second keep the Montlake flyer stop or a functional equivalent. If this means the ramps to/from the west have to be HOV only so be it. Third if a second bridge over the ship canal is built any additional lanes need to be made HOV/Transit only, the new bridge also needs the structural provision to handle possible future streetcar or light-rail tracks. Fourth better provisions need to be made for pedestrians and cyclists traveling through the area with particular attention paid to reducing conflicts with auto traffic. Finally consideration should be given to making all of the 520 on and off ramps at Montlake HOV and transit only.

  • morganba

    “Density creates demand which jacks up housing costs.” The people per square foot part of density (the only part really) drives down demand, unless, I suppose it’s all your friends who live nearby. Think about it – would you prefer to live with 8 other people in your apartment? Would you prefer to live in a 40 story high-rise next to 5 others? Demand is driven up by the density of amenities within easy, inexpensive travel time, like walking. People love living in the Int’l Dist or in Belltown, because of the things they can do in their neighborhood. It’s true that density of people tends to encourage density of amenities. This is an important distinction, because we can then see how providing a transit station pushes up demand and, therefore, housing prices.

  • Seattle_Steve

    Chris. Nice points. As you know, the ideas suggested by you are not the ideas being advanced by the Montlake interests. I agree that the West end decision is about much more than the people who live in Montlake. They live in a regional neighborhood next to the lake, the UW and the Arboretum, all things that are state assets well worth enhancing.

    I disagree that bikes, people on foot, and transit have been treated as a bothersome afterthought. I see much forethought – new bike and ped access that does not exist now connecting to regional trails, The plan that was selected was better than the Montlake for all the interests you mention. So compare the plan, to what is there now. Save for the flyer stop issue, everything gets tons better. Montlake even gets a better neighborhood and far less freeway noise. Can the current plan be improved, you bet. My sense is that most of the City Council is taking a credible approach to improving it a ton.

    This is a question of what is reasonable. Anyone with a brain knows the late breaking no HOV lane proposal coming from Montlake is not credible, first, because no one will agree to it, leading to nothing getting done. There's no real plan and no money identified to pay for it. It hardly seems good for the larger sustainability movement to back a plan that has zero credibility, as Mayor McGinn has done.

    BTW, the plan doesn't dump those cars on the surface streets, growth (mostly within urban places around here) produces the additional traffic. All Montlake is doing is sending it north and south of their neighborhood with the new plan. It still comes to Seattle.

    Impass is a really lousy option. It prevents lot of other things from getting done. In that way, Montlake would hold everyone else who wants a more sustainable City hostage.

  • TMN

    Of course suburbs are a planned development. They were planned out by the zoning board, who chose not to put mixed commercial use centers in easy walking distance of the houses. They were planned out by the city when they chose not to put transit capacity within walking distance. Just because the color of the final building was left to the owner doesn't negate the fact that someone sat down, looked at an empty field, and decided exactly what should be there ten years later.

  • jabailo

    You realize of course that compared to almost any metro area in the United States (New York, Boston, LA, maybe even Portland) the densities that most people in Seattle live in, and which is the reason they like Seattle, are far, far lower! Look at all the single homes that families and groups of people live in with yards, porches. The freedom to walk down a block and not be crowded is respected. But most people aren't in the super dense condos. The fact is, outside of the really new Nickles era concrete cinder block style dwellings, a lot of Seattle looks like that house in the 'suburb' that is the lead of your post!

  • Anc

    Do you ever tire of being wrong all the time jabailo/crazy guy/blue swan?

    Portland Metro, pop per square KM: 130.6
    LA Metro, pop per square KM: 165.2
    Seattle Metro pop per square KM: 167.7

    http://www.census.gov/population/www/censusdata…

  • rossb

    Perhaps the best comment was the first one. No one knows exactly what housing we (or other cities) would have if the market was really allowed to operate without zoning restrictions. Many have suggested it would be better. I'm sure it would be in some ways, while worse in others.

    One of the other interesting things about this debate is that there is no consensus as to what housing density means. Condos and apartments? Maybe, but then the suburbs (or at least many of them) aren't doing so bad. There are some huge apartment complexes in the suburbs. They are surrounded by big houses on big lots. Which gets me back to where I started. With better zoning laws, I believe that we would have a lot more little houses on little lots. Doesn't that cute little city by the bay have that?

    Of course, maybe that's not enough. Perhaps the key is not the little houses on little lots, or the apartment building, but the combination; especially with the apartments having no parking requirement (back before zoning laws required them). Consider the greater U District. If you head North on the Ave, you pass lots of little shops (reminds me of Toronto) surrounded by some nice, dense houses (although not as little as they could be) and a very pretty (old) apartment building, right next to Cowen Park. Is that urban enough for you? Maybe, maybe not. Is it desirable? Absolutely. The apartments (and the houses) are really expensive (if you don't have the money, may I suggest a nice place in the 'burbs).

  • dutchoven

    For the record, you missed the point of the article, the irony in the headline, etc.