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Rule #1: Don’t Put a Light Rail Station Next to a Freeway


Rendering of the Wallace Vision Line by J. Craig Thorpe

[Editor's note: Yesterday, Bellevue City Council member Kevin Wallace wrote a defense in the Seattle Times of his proposal to move Sound Transit's proposed eastern light rail alignment from downtown Bellevue to the BNSF railroad tracks just east of I-405. We've written about Wallace's proposal, and similar proposals that would take rail away from homes, jobs, and the South Bellevue Park and Ride, here, here, here, here, and here. On Thursday, the Sound Transit board will receive cost and ridership analyses for the Vision Line. This post by Dan Bertolet, which originally ran on Hugeasscity last November, is being reposted here because the Bellevue rail issue is coming to a head.]

Getting the highest return on transit investments hinges on the creation of high-performing transit-oriented communities (TOC) around transit stations. And the easiest way to make sure that doesn’t happen is to site stations next to large freeways. Yet this is exactly what newly elected Bellevue City Councilor Kevin Wallace has proposed, in his “Vision Line” plan that would move the downtown Bellevue Station from the ideally located downtown Bellevue transit center, over to the edge of I-405, about a quarter-mile to the east.

Maximizing the social and environmental benefits associated with high-performing TOC is relatively straightforward: you put stations where there are lots of people, jobs, and services within easy walking distance, or where there’s at least a good future potential for those ingredients. And the downtown Bellevue transit center fits that bill—there’s already a high concentration of jobs in downtown Bellevue, and the area is zoned to allow high housing density. The convenient connectivity to extensive bus service is also ideal.


Bellevue Transit Center. Photo by Dan Bertolet.

When you site a station next to a freeway, right away you’re throwing away half of your walkshed (the walkable area around the station), because (1) the freeway itself obliterates a massive swath of land in the station area, and (2) few people will be willing to walk across the massive pedestrian barrier that is a freeway like I-405. Ridership depends on pedestrians and walkable destinations, and a freeway is anathema to both.

The Vision Line proposal would also add significant inconvenience to trips between different forms of transit, because it would force a rider transferring from bus to train to make an extra five-minute walk. The simplest way to kill transit ridership is to make it inconvenient. The Vision Liners’ belief that the covered walkway shown in the rendering above would make up for the inconvenience of distance is wishful thinking.

The Vision Line was motivated by perceived problems with the two leading alternatives: tunneling through downtown Bellevue costs too much, and surface tracks through downtown are too disruptive. Cry me a river.

New light rail service represents an unprecedented opportunity to help transform Bellevue into a city that makes sense for the 21st Century, and most of the bill for it is being covered by taxpayers from across the region. But that awesome opportunity won’t just be handed to the city—it will cost money, and the required changes won’t be totally painless for everyone. On the other hand, compromises made now will be paid for a bazillion times over during the lifetime of the light rail line.

Bellevue, you’re a smart, wealthy city. Step up and make sure this one gets done right.




  • Andrew Smith

    Smart and Wealthy? Same thing goes for LA who gets so much wrong (including putting their stations next to freeways).

  • Andrew Smith

    Smart and Wealthy? Same thing goes for LA who gets so much wrong (including putting their stations next to freeways).

  • MadDen

    For the love of god, please stop calling it “Vision Line.” This proposal is rooted in a staggering lack of vision — unless your goofy idea of vision means stifling a vastly growing downtown core by forcing a ten-minute ride on a moving sidewalk to connect to the region’s transit system. I can hear all the real cities laughing at Bellevue over this.

  • MadDen

    For the love of god, please stop calling it “Vision Line.” This proposal is rooted in a staggering lack of vision — unless your goofy idea of vision means stifling a vastly growing downtown core by forcing a ten-minute ride on a moving sidewalk to connect to the region’s transit system. I can hear all the real cities laughing at Bellevue over this.

  • morning fizzy

    “The Vision Line was motivated by perceived problems with the two leading alternatives: tunneling through downtown Bellevue costs too much, and surface tracks through downtown are too disruptive. Cry me a river.”

    Could someone clarify the above?

    I think it would be a huge mistake not to tunnel through Bellevue.

  • morning fizzy

    “The Vision Line was motivated by perceived problems with the two leading alternatives: tunneling through downtown Bellevue costs too much, and surface tracks through downtown are too disruptive. Cry me a river.”

    Could someone clarify the above?

    I think it would be a huge mistake not to tunnel through Bellevue.

  • Good Grief

    What a bunch of BS — Portland has light rail stops next to I-84, I-205, and US 26 that are providing plenty of return on investment.

    Anyone who used to read Bertolet’s failed site knows that he only mentions facts that support his own view of how people should be forced into certain behaviors in their daily life. A quarter of a mile? Cry me a river indeed…

  • Good Grief

    What a bunch of BS — Portland has light rail stops next to I-84, I-205, and US 26 that are providing plenty of return on investment.

    Anyone who used to read Bertolet’s failed site knows that he only mentions facts that support his own view of how people should be forced into certain behaviors in their daily life. A quarter of a mile? Cry me a river indeed…

  • MadDen

    Good Grief @ 4, well, I suppose if a personal hobby blog that is read and quoted by electeds, linked by nearly every other meaningful blog on the topic in the region, followed by a highly engaged and sometimes cult-like set of groupies, and that finally leads to a gig at ‘Cola with gobs more readership and influence meets your goofy definition of a “failed site,” then sure.

  • MadDen

    Good Grief @ 4, well, I suppose if a personal hobby blog that is read and quoted by electeds, linked by nearly every other meaningful blog on the topic in the region, followed by a highly engaged and sometimes cult-like set of groupies, and that finally leads to a gig at ‘Cola with gobs more readership and influence meets your goofy definition of a “failed site,” then sure.

  • Mr. X

    Ever ride the Red Line in Chicago? It runs along a freeway, and has huge ridership.

  • Mr. X

    Ever ride the Red Line in Chicago? It runs along a freeway, and has huge ridership.

  • Jason Mitchell

    Mr. X:

    1)The Eastside and Chicago don’t exactly have comparable density
    2) Only part of the Red Line runs along an expressway
    3) The expressway portion of the Red Line was laid in mature neighborhoods
    4) Because the Red Line has “huge” ridership doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have “huger” ridership if part of it wasn’t in the middle of an expressway

  • Jason Mitchell

    Mr. X:

    1)The Eastside and Chicago don’t exactly have comparable density
    2) Only part of the Red Line runs along an expressway
    3) The expressway portion of the Red Line was laid in mature neighborhoods
    4) Because the Red Line has “huge” ridership doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have “huger” ridership if part of it wasn’t in the middle of an expressway

  • MadDen

    Mr. X – Ridiculous comparison. It’s true that the Red Line runs along the Dan Ryan (that’s a freeway to you non-Chicagoans who prefer to call freeways by numbers instead of names) through south side residential neighborhoods, operating more like a commuter heavy rail line. When it goes through downtown it gets off the freeway and travels under State Street, the central business district, providing immediate (read: no transfer or half-mile moving sidewalk necessary) to tens of thousands of homes and jobs — rather than completely bypassing downtown as the freeway does. And to the north of downtown, the Red Line travels through vibrant dense neighborhoods, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Edgewater, Rogers Park, as a central point of access for residents to reach the rest of the city. Wallace’s “vision” to bypass downtown Bellevue bears no comparison to the Red Line.

  • MadDen

    Mr. X – Ridiculous comparison. It’s true that the Red Line runs along the Dan Ryan (that’s a freeway to you non-Chicagoans who prefer to call freeways by numbers instead of names) through south side residential neighborhoods, operating more like a commuter heavy rail line. When it goes through downtown it gets off the freeway and travels under State Street, the central business district, providing immediate (read: no transfer or half-mile moving sidewalk necessary) to tens of thousands of homes and jobs — rather than completely bypassing downtown as the freeway does. And to the north of downtown, the Red Line travels through vibrant dense neighborhoods, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Edgewater, Rogers Park, as a central point of access for residents to reach the rest of the city. Wallace’s “vision” to bypass downtown Bellevue bears no comparison to the Red Line.

  • Cam

    My buddy said that it looks more like the Circus Line, than the Vision Line.

  • Cam

    My buddy said that it looks more like the Circus Line, than the Vision Line.

  • RossB

    There is nothing wrong with a rail line running next to the freeway. The problem is when that line has a station by the freeway (for the reasons mentioned). In this case, perhaps the line could follow the freeway, then curve West a bit (at about Main), meeting at the Bellevue Transit Center. Heading North, the line could curve at about 8th.

    The other thing worth considering is simply elevating it through that whole section. That would save a lot of money and still provide for very fast service. It also makes riding the train quite nice. It is a shame that the downtown to University District route won’t be elevated, as that would be a really scenic trip.

  • RossB

    There is nothing wrong with a rail line running next to the freeway. The problem is when that line has a station by the freeway (for the reasons mentioned). In this case, perhaps the line could follow the freeway, then curve West a bit (at about Main), meeting at the Bellevue Transit Center. Heading North, the line could curve at about 8th.

    The other thing worth considering is simply elevating it through that whole section. That would save a lot of money and still provide for very fast service. It also makes riding the train quite nice. It is a shame that the downtown to University District route won’t be elevated, as that would be a really scenic trip.

  • MadDen

    That rendering is absurd. Look at the 405 right-of-way in the image – why the hell would we build a train next to completely non-developable land instead of building it next to places where people live and work? And the rendering doesn’t even include the lovely cloverleaf just to the north of the station – which according to google maps looks to be about 1500′x1500′ or over 50 acres of useless (from a TOD perspective, that is) land immediately adjacent to the rail station! Why on earth would we put a station there when we could align it through downtown where people could actually use it? This makes no sense!

  • MadDen

    That rendering is absurd. Look at the 405 right-of-way in the image – why the hell would we build a train next to completely non-developable land instead of building it next to places where people live and work? And the rendering doesn’t even include the lovely cloverleaf just to the north of the station – which according to google maps looks to be about 1500′x1500′ or over 50 acres of useless (from a TOD perspective, that is) land immediately adjacent to the rail station! Why on earth would we put a station there when we could align it through downtown where people could actually use it? This makes no sense!

  • morning fizzy

    Isn’t the airport station about a quarter mile from the airport?

  • morning fizzy

    Isn’t the airport station about a quarter mile from the airport?

  • MadDen

    morning fizzy – yes, and it is atrocious that you can get closer to the terminal in your car than by train. people will still use the train (I’ve taken it to the airport several times already) – but it sure would be nice if we could have made it more convenient for transit-takers than car-drivers.

  • MadDen

    morning fizzy – yes, and it is atrocious that you can get closer to the terminal in your car than by train. people will still use the train (I’ve taken it to the airport several times already) – but it sure would be nice if we could have made it more convenient for transit-takers than car-drivers.

  • Leo

    So, this proposal proves that Kevin Wallace is not opposed to aerial public transit in Bellevue (of two kinds – either light rail or moving walkways.) Great! So all we have to do is move the elevated alignment over to the transit center, where it makes sense, and we’re done. That was easy!

    P.S. IMHO, in 20 years, when light rail has completely transformed the Rainier Valley, they’ll be sorely regretting that they didn’t elevate that line.

  • Leo

    So, this proposal proves that Kevin Wallace is not opposed to aerial public transit in Bellevue (of two kinds – either light rail or moving walkways.) Great! So all we have to do is move the elevated alignment over to the transit center, where it makes sense, and we’re done. That was easy!

    P.S. IMHO, in 20 years, when light rail has completely transformed the Rainier Valley, they’ll be sorely regretting that they didn’t elevate that line.

  • Sara Nikolic

    Dan, Do you have a sense of how the “Vision Line” station area would compare to the Downtown Bellevue Transit Center station area for TOC potential, according to the assumptions in the Blueprint (see pages 37-38 at http://www.futurewise.org/resources/publications/TOC%20Blueprint%20Final%2011-23-09%20for%20Website.pdf for the analysis of the Downtown Bellevue station)? It would be great to see the side-by-side comparison. I’m guessing the developable acreage (or lack thereof) in the “Vision Line” station area would be a pretty clear indication of the limitations of that alignment.

  • Sara Nikolic

    Dan, Do you have a sense of how the “Vision Line” station area would compare to the Downtown Bellevue Transit Center station area for TOC potential, according to the assumptions in the Blueprint (see pages 37-38 at http://www.futurewise.org/resources/publications/TOC%20Blueprint%20Final%2011-23-09%20for%20Website.pdf for the analysis of the Downtown Bellevue station)? It would be great to see the side-by-side comparison. I’m guessing the developable acreage (or lack thereof) in the “Vision Line” station area would be a pretty clear indication of the limitations of that alignment.

  • johnmocha

    Denver’s Light Rail is doing great (ridership and development) and it parallels several highways/major roads (I-25, Colorado 85). Several in town stations are adjacent to the roads (I-25& Broadway, I-25 & Alameda, I-25 & Yale….). Gosh, park and ride what a concept

    Maybe being reasonable and allowing neighborhoods to evolve naturally versus having a force fed vision led to their success.

  • johnmocha

    Denver’s Light Rail is doing great (ridership and development) and it parallels several highways/major roads (I-25, Colorado 85). Several in town stations are adjacent to the roads (I-25& Broadway, I-25 & Alameda, I-25 & Yale….). Gosh, park and ride what a concept

    Maybe being reasonable and allowing neighborhoods to evolve naturally versus having a force fed vision led to their success.

  • eddiew

    Dan’s post is valid. It should not only be followed by Bellevue and ST, but also by ST in the cities of Shoreline and Mountlake Terrace. The ST Board selected an I-5 alignment for its ST2 stations, tentatively placed at NE 145th and 185th streets and at the MT P&R. those station areas will always be dominated by the freeway (e.g., noise, traffic congestion). In addition, the Shoreline station areas are zoned single family or fairly wet (Thornton Creek runs under the NE 145th Street site).

    What would it take to shift the Bellevue alignment? funding.

    One point should be revised. Dan writes: “the bill for it is being covered by taxpayers from across the region”. Actually, east Link is funded by taxpayers from only the east subarea (e..g, Kenmore, Bothell, Woodinville, Kirkland, Redmond, Sammamish, Issaquah, Newcastle, MI, and Renton). Bellevue got what they wanted from the ST long range plan from ST2. but there was not enough projected revenue to fund east Link all the way to downtown Redmond or the downtown Bellevue tunnel. So, Bellevue got what they wanted, but its still not enough. The ST Board knew all this and went ahead anyway.

  • eddiew

    Dan’s post is valid. It should not only be followed by Bellevue and ST, but also by ST in the cities of Shoreline and Mountlake Terrace. The ST Board selected an I-5 alignment for its ST2 stations, tentatively placed at NE 145th and 185th streets and at the MT P&R. those station areas will always be dominated by the freeway (e.g., noise, traffic congestion). In addition, the Shoreline station areas are zoned single family or fairly wet (Thornton Creek runs under the NE 145th Street site).

    What would it take to shift the Bellevue alignment? funding.

    One point should be revised. Dan writes: “the bill for it is being covered by taxpayers from across the region”. Actually, east Link is funded by taxpayers from only the east subarea (e..g, Kenmore, Bothell, Woodinville, Kirkland, Redmond, Sammamish, Issaquah, Newcastle, MI, and Renton). Bellevue got what they wanted from the ST long range plan from ST2. but there was not enough projected revenue to fund east Link all the way to downtown Redmond or the downtown Bellevue tunnel. So, Bellevue got what they wanted, but its still not enough. The ST Board knew all this and went ahead anyway.

  • Wells

    One basic principle of transit design many advocates ignore is how transit lines integrate. Light rail systems force the discussion of this fundamental design aspect because rail stations become bus transfer points.

    Too often, light rail plans never leave the drawing board because the cost and impact of routes through city centers become too high. Salvaging such a light rail line is possible by integrating transit connections that make a transfer trip convenient.

    Such a transit connection can reach more destinations than is walkable from a shoe-horned light rail station, and can influence more development. If the connection is short in length, it requires the least number of vehicles to run at conveniently frequent intervals.

    I agree that the station is too close to the freeway, but moving it 200′ closer to town, if possible and practical, could create an inviting station area at a low cost.

    Sorry, if this doesn’t sound like the sort of rant so many of you all relate to best.

  • Wells

    One basic principle of transit design many advocates ignore is how transit lines integrate. Light rail systems force the discussion of this fundamental design aspect because rail stations become bus transfer points.

    Too often, light rail plans never leave the drawing board because the cost and impact of routes through city centers become too high. Salvaging such a light rail line is possible by integrating transit connections that make a transfer trip convenient.

    Such a transit connection can reach more destinations than is walkable from a shoe-horned light rail station, and can influence more development. If the connection is short in length, it requires the least number of vehicles to run at conveniently frequent intervals.

    I agree that the station is too close to the freeway, but moving it 200′ closer to town, if possible and practical, could create an inviting station area at a low cost.

    Sorry, if this doesn’t sound like the sort of rant so many of you all relate to best.

  • Robert

    Can we just cut to the chase here? Light rail puts Bellevue 4 stops from Rainier Valley. The opposition to light rail by folks like Wallace and Freeman has been and always will be grounded in issues of race and class.

    “The Vision Line aims to protect residential homes and downtown businesses.” ( Bellevue Reporter) Hmm… interesting use of the word “protect”… what are they protecting these homes and businesses from? How do they propose to protect them? Distance, limiting access, etc. sound familiar? Simply responding to the trumped up reasons for opposing having a light rail station easy walking distance to downtown Bellevue is just too polite and allows the fiction that this is not about race and class to continue.

    And to think federal funds could be used to enhance such “protection!” You’d think the days of using federal transportation projects to protect people in such a way were long gone. An enterprising individual or group might want to check out filing a complaint under http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/hep/49cfr21.htm §21.11. Can’t you imagine a federal Part 21 hearing on the “Division Line?” What fun!

  • Robert

    Can we just cut to the chase here? Light rail puts Bellevue 4 stops from Rainier Valley. The opposition to light rail by folks like Wallace and Freeman has been and always will be grounded in issues of race and class.

    “The Vision Line aims to protect residential homes and downtown businesses.” ( Bellevue Reporter) Hmm… interesting use of the word “protect”… what are they protecting these homes and businesses from? How do they propose to protect them? Distance, limiting access, etc. sound familiar? Simply responding to the trumped up reasons for opposing having a light rail station easy walking distance to downtown Bellevue is just too polite and allows the fiction that this is not about race and class to continue.

    And to think federal funds could be used to enhance such “protection!” You’d think the days of using federal transportation projects to protect people in such a way were long gone. An enterprising individual or group might want to check out filing a complaint under http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/hep/49cfr21.htm §21.11. Can’t you imagine a federal Part 21 hearing on the “Division Line?” What fun!

  • meh

    You want TOD, allow 60 story towers. Done. They can even build them next to freeways because up there at about the 20th floor the noise doesn’t matter and they will love having the freeway there protecting their views.

  • meh

    You want TOD, allow 60 story towers. Done. They can even build them next to freeways because up there at about the 20th floor the noise doesn’t matter and they will love having the freeway there protecting their views.

  • cfrphoto

    Following the BNSF right of way from the I-90 corridor could produce a fast ride to Bellevue compared to a surface alignment following 112th Ave or Bellevue Way. However, placing a station blocks away from downtown Bellevue will be ineffective and is not very imaginative. Instead, a stub following the alignment of NE 6th Street from the BNSF right of way to the Bellevue Transit Center is feasible and may be the most practical solution. Trains bound from Seattle to Redmond would have to reverse direction at the Transit Center, but the end to end travel time from Seattle to Redmond may be less than a convoluted surface alignment through downtown Bellevue. While, generally unfamiliar in the United States, mid-trip direction reversals may occur on European railroads at important terminals and at least one exists on the Karlsruhe tram-train system.

    A streetcar circulator could also be built someday to serve major activity centers not conveniently close to the transit center allowing for mixed local and express operation. At peak times, some trips might bypass Bellevue to reach the main Microsoft Campus more quickly or the stub station could be the jumping off point for a future route crossing Lake Washington in the 520 corridor. In my opinion, the light rail planning process in Seattle has suffered from a lack of imagination and a willingness to sacrifice local stops in favor of express service. Without both, the East Side light rail project will fall short of its potential.

  • cfrphoto

    Following the BNSF right of way from the I-90 corridor could produce a fast ride to Bellevue compared to a surface alignment following 112th Ave or Bellevue Way. However, placing a station blocks away from downtown Bellevue will be ineffective and is not very imaginative. Instead, a stub following the alignment of NE 6th Street from the BNSF right of way to the Bellevue Transit Center is feasible and may be the most practical solution. Trains bound from Seattle to Redmond would have to reverse direction at the Transit Center, but the end to end travel time from Seattle to Redmond may be less than a convoluted surface alignment through downtown Bellevue. While, generally unfamiliar in the United States, mid-trip direction reversals may occur on European railroads at important terminals and at least one exists on the Karlsruhe tram-train system.

    A streetcar circulator could also be built someday to serve major activity centers not conveniently close to the transit center allowing for mixed local and express operation. At peak times, some trips might bypass Bellevue to reach the main Microsoft Campus more quickly or the stub station could be the jumping off point for a future route crossing Lake Washington in the 520 corridor. In my opinion, the light rail planning process in Seattle has suffered from a lack of imagination and a willingness to sacrifice local stops in favor of express service. Without both, the East Side light rail project will fall short of its potential.

  • Daniel K

    I can’t believe they would ruin the view of the city from I-405 by putting a towering rail track and station between drivers and the skyline.

    Isn’t it clear from the Alaskan Way Viaduct arguments that people don’t like to have their views obstructed of city skylines when they are driving by?

    What are these people in the City Council thinking?!

  • Daniel K

    I can’t believe they would ruin the view of the city from I-405 by putting a towering rail track and station between drivers and the skyline.

    Isn’t it clear from the Alaskan Way Viaduct arguments that people don’t like to have their views obstructed of city skylines when they are driving by?

    What are these people in the City Council thinking?!

  • misha

    Robert has it completely right. People moved to Bellevue to get away from black and poor people, they’re not going to allow them easy access to their city. Even if it means throwing away hundreds of millions of tax dollars and sabotaging the region’s transportation system.

  • misha

    Robert has it completely right. People moved to Bellevue to get away from black and poor people, they’re not going to allow them easy access to their city. Even if it means throwing away hundreds of millions of tax dollars and sabotaging the region’s transportation system.

  • seadog

    Sound Transit will have light rail stops along I-5 North all over the place and there has been no objection from the TOD crowd. As a matter of fact, at Northgate Wallace has a huge development in the area of the Thornton Creek restoration.

    It’s early in the morning and I’m not going to pull out a map, but there are stops at 145th, 185th, and in Mountlake Terrace along I-5 for light rail – and no problems.

  • seadog

    Sound Transit will have light rail stops along I-5 North all over the place and there has been no objection from the TOD crowd. As a matter of fact, at Northgate Wallace has a huge development in the area of the Thornton Creek restoration.

    It’s early in the morning and I’m not going to pull out a map, but there are stops at 145th, 185th, and in Mountlake Terrace along I-5 for light rail – and no problems.

  • on board

    I want my vote back if this becomes the alignment.

  • on board

    I want my vote back if this becomes the alignment.

  • http://peacetreefarm.org N in Seattle

    Didn’t I hear somewhere that it’s the “Vision” Line because this particular alignment allows Mr. Wallace to easily see some land parcels that he controls?

    Not that I’d ever want to suggest that there’s a personal profit motive behind the suggested route.

  • http://peacetreefarm.org N in Seattle

    Didn’t I hear somewhere that it’s the “Vision” Line because this particular alignment allows Mr. Wallace to easily see some land parcels that he controls?

    Not that I’d ever want to suggest that there’s a personal profit motive behind the suggested route.

  • Sara Nikolic

    Seadog @ 24 – The EIS process (during which Sound Transit will consider several alignment alternatives) has not yet begun for the North Link stations through Shoreline and Mountlake Terrace, and the ST board will not make an final alignment decision on those stations for several years. There are many of us in the “TOD crowd” that will be highly engaged in those processes, promoting alignments that will provide more access to homes and jobs. It’s unlikely that the presumed I-5 alignment through single-family neighborhoods at 145th and 185th will provide such access–but seeing as the final East Link alignment decision is imminent, you are rightfully hearing a lot more noise about Bellevue than Shoreline.

  • Sara Nikolic

    Seadog @ 24 – The EIS process (during which Sound Transit will consider several alignment alternatives) has not yet begun for the North Link stations through Shoreline and Mountlake Terrace, and the ST board will not make an final alignment decision on those stations for several years. There are many of us in the “TOD crowd” that will be highly engaged in those processes, promoting alignments that will provide more access to homes and jobs. It’s unlikely that the presumed I-5 alignment through single-family neighborhoods at 145th and 185th will provide such access–but seeing as the final East Link alignment decision is imminent, you are rightfully hearing a lot more noise about Bellevue than Shoreline.

  • johnmocha

    Wouldn’t it be more profitable overall and easier for Kemper if he just invested in the Rainier Valley and helped remake it in his vision of Bellevue?

  • johnmocha

    Wouldn’t it be more profitable overall and easier for Kemper if he just invested in the Rainier Valley and helped remake it in his vision of Bellevue?

  • Mickymse

    Are commenters being willfully obtuse, or just not reading carefully?

    The problem isn’t with running transit along a freeway or major roadway. The problem is siting a station next to a freeway, as Bertolet wrote above.

    And simply pointing at other places that have stations next to a freeway is lazy debate, but I suspect some of you know that already.

    Yes, a freeway station next to a Park-and-Ride — as may be built north of Seattle — works fine. It also works particularly well when a freeway station is a major transfer point for other forms of transit — like the bus stops along I-90 and SR-520.

    Wallace’s lack of “vision” is pretty clear in this particular instance because there’s no park and ride, it’s a 5-minute walk from the existing Transit Center and bus connections, and there’s little room for development potential of origins or destinations of riders.

  • Mickymse

    Are commenters being willfully obtuse, or just not reading carefully?

    The problem isn’t with running transit along a freeway or major roadway. The problem is siting a station next to a freeway, as Bertolet wrote above.

    And simply pointing at other places that have stations next to a freeway is lazy debate, but I suspect some of you know that already.

    Yes, a freeway station next to a Park-and-Ride — as may be built north of Seattle — works fine. It also works particularly well when a freeway station is a major transfer point for other forms of transit — like the bus stops along I-90 and SR-520.

    Wallace’s lack of “vision” is pretty clear in this particular instance because there’s no park and ride, it’s a 5-minute walk from the existing Transit Center and bus connections, and there’s little room for development potential of origins or destinations of riders.

  • seadog

    Sara – @N. 145th there is a Park & Ride lot & several bus lines that intersect I-5, plus Jackson Golf Course – little to see in the way single-family residential homes (and don’t start preaching to me about how I don’t know – my family has lived in the neighborhood since 1960). There is TOD already at Aurora & N. 145th with the bus lines, same to the east aligned with 15th Ave – in fact 15th Ave NE is walkable. How far east do you want to go, meander (or gerrymander) over to Lake City/Bothell Way so you link up with the Brightwater Tunnel?

    However, the proposed station @N. 185 St. is sheer lunacy.

  • seadog

    Sara – @N. 145th there is a Park & Ride lot & several bus lines that intersect I-5, plus Jackson Golf Course – little to see in the way single-family residential homes (and don’t start preaching to me about how I don’t know – my family has lived in the neighborhood since 1960). There is TOD already at Aurora & N. 145th with the bus lines, same to the east aligned with 15th Ave – in fact 15th Ave NE is walkable. How far east do you want to go, meander (or gerrymander) over to Lake City/Bothell Way so you link up with the Brightwater Tunnel?

    However, the proposed station @N. 185 St. is sheer lunacy.

  • Guest

    seadog –

    Rumor is that despite that description of a light rail stop at 145th and I-5 in ST2, there will not be a stop there. Rumor is that it may go to Aurora and 145th (or in that area) instead. There is a lot of time for that decision to be made as the Northgate location has not been sited yet either.

    Interestingly, Kevin Wallace has been making noise about wrapping the Northgate light rail planning into the Northgate Way rezone discussion. His family owns a number of large parcels of underdeveloped land in Northgate.

  • Northgate Way

    seadog –

    Rumor is that despite that description of a light rail stop at 145th and I-5 in ST2, there will not be a stop there. Rumor is that it may go to Aurora and 145th (or in that area) instead. There is a lot of time for that decision to be made as the Northgate location has not been sited yet either.

    Interestingly, Kevin Wallace has been making noise about wrapping the Northgate light rail planning into the Northgate Way rezone discussion. His family owns a number of large parcels of underdeveloped land in Northgate.

  • Sara Nikolic

    Seadog – The current zoning on the Shoreline side of 145th, on both sides of the freeway is all SF. There appears to be nearly no multi-family or commercial zoning within a half-mile of the station site in either Shoreline or Seattle. But I am just looking at the zoning map, and you sound like you have a better sense of what is on the ground now. There appears to be some multi-family zoning, although fairly low-density, further north, by Twin Ponds. And yes, the golf course takes up much of the land area to the south of the intersection, and there is indeed a park-and-ride and a number of other bus routes that stop there. My point, poorly-stated perhaps, is that the preferred alignment and station sites should provide access to homes and jobs. The potential for for providing such access around a freeway station surrounded by a golf course and single-family housing is going to be severely limited–especially for access by foot or bike. The EIS process (to be started this fall) will examine this issue as part of the alignment alternatives analysis.

  • Sara Nikolic

    Seadog – The current zoning on the Shoreline side of 145th, on both sides of the freeway is all SF. There appears to be nearly no multi-family or commercial zoning within a half-mile of the station site in either Shoreline or Seattle. But I am just looking at the zoning map, and you sound like you have a better sense of what is on the ground now. There appears to be some multi-family zoning, although fairly low-density, further north, by Twin Ponds. And yes, the golf course takes up much of the land area to the south of the intersection, and there is indeed a park-and-ride and a number of other bus routes that stop there. My point, poorly-stated perhaps, is that the preferred alignment and station sites should provide access to homes and jobs. The potential for for providing such access around a freeway station surrounded by a golf course and single-family housing is going to be severely limited–especially for access by foot or bike. The EIS process (to be started this fall) will examine this issue as part of the alignment alternatives analysis.

  • Cascadian

    Some earlier commenters pointed out that the airport station is a quarter mile from the airport and people make that walk. While that’s true, it’s not relevant to this lunatic line in Bellevue. People going to an airport are less likely to be dissuaded by a walk than shoppers and commuters in a downtown core. The airport station isn’t ideal for airport connections, but it’s good enough and not particularly remote compared to other airport train stations around the world. But it’s also right on International Boulevard, which means better access to the retail/business areas of the city of Seatac not just from the train station but from the airport. There’s an opportunity for some TOD there and improved connections to local transit.

    There’s very little near the proposed downtown station in Bellevue. That station needs to be near the transit center and much closer to the majority of downtown retail and commercial activity.

  • Cascadian

    Some earlier commenters pointed out that the airport station is a quarter mile from the airport and people make that walk. While that’s true, it’s not relevant to this lunatic line in Bellevue. People going to an airport are less likely to be dissuaded by a walk than shoppers and commuters in a downtown core. The airport station isn’t ideal for airport connections, but it’s good enough and not particularly remote compared to other airport train stations around the world. But it’s also right on International Boulevard, which means better access to the retail/business areas of the city of Seatac not just from the train station but from the airport. There’s an opportunity for some TOD there and improved connections to local transit.

    There’s very little near the proposed downtown station in Bellevue. That station needs to be near the transit center and much closer to the majority of downtown retail and commercial activity.

  • ratcityreprobate

    It is really very simple. With both the Eastside Line and Northlink it is all about where Kevin Wallace and family own real estate.

  • ratcityreprobate

    It is really very simple. With both the Eastside Line and Northlink it is all about where Kevin Wallace and family own real estate.

  • seadog

    Those are all interesting rumors – since none of you live in Shoreline and I do.

    It’s news to us in Shoreline that the ST rail station will be built at Aurora & 145 St. North. News to both the Seattle & Shoreline side – and I’m a neighborhood advocate right by Twin Ponds, walk my dog there nearly everyday.

    That’s the problem with rumors.

  • seadog

    Those are all interesting rumors – since none of you live in Shoreline and I do.

    It’s news to us in Shoreline that the ST rail station will be built at Aurora & 145 St. North. News to both the Seattle & Shoreline side – and I’m a neighborhood advocate right by Twin Ponds, walk my dog there nearly everyday.

    That’s the problem with rumors.

  • seadog

    I’m aware of the Wallace family interests in and around Northgate, just posted a comment about that in the Seattle Times.

    The Shoreline planning department has directed development to occur along Aurora Avenue North concurrent with the bus-oriented transit. Metro-King County is moving their park and ride center from Aurora Village to 192nd & Aurora. There will be a land swap. Shoreline has been busy revamping (and killing all the small businesses) up and down Aurora for the BAT lanes. ST had not been involved in any of the planning, nor do they intend to do so in the future.

    Shoreline does plan upon high density housing along 15th Ave. on Fircrest. But they stupidly downsized 15th from four lanes to three lanes, which means to take additional bus traffic they will have to reconfigure – there is RB-zoned property up and down 15th avenue. So it does make sense to put the light rail station by I-5.

  • seadog

    I’m aware of the Wallace family interests in and around Northgate, just posted a comment about that in the Seattle Times.

    The Shoreline planning department has directed development to occur along Aurora Avenue North concurrent with the bus-oriented transit. Metro-King County is moving their park and ride center from Aurora Village to 192nd & Aurora. There will be a land swap. Shoreline has been busy revamping (and killing all the small businesses) up and down Aurora for the BAT lanes. ST had not been involved in any of the planning, nor do they intend to do so in the future.

    Shoreline does plan upon high density housing along 15th Ave. on Fircrest. But they stupidly downsized 15th from four lanes to three lanes, which means to take additional bus traffic they will have to reconfigure – there is RB-zoned property up and down 15th avenue. So it does make sense to put the light rail station by I-5.

  • Daniel K

    It isn’t about running light rail along highways. The issue is that you shouldn’t bypass destinations when you do so. Downtown Bellevue should be considered as a major destination on a route, not just another stop as this alignment makes it. When light rail passes through city cores, it shouldn’t just brush past them, it needs to get into that core to be effective and alluring to riders.

  • Daniel K

    It isn’t about running light rail along highways. The issue is that you shouldn’t bypass destinations when you do so. Downtown Bellevue should be considered as a major destination on a route, not just another stop as this alignment makes it. When light rail passes through city cores, it shouldn’t just brush past them, it needs to get into that core to be effective and alluring to riders.

  • Robert

    Here’s a test. If light rail only went back and forth between downtown Redmond and downtown Bellevue, do you think Wallace and Freeman would be proposing a station next to a freeway and away from downtown Bellevue?

    Arguing against the “Division Line” using transportation geek arguments is exactly the grounds they want you to argue on. The “Division Line” is a purposeful exclusionary scheme to create maximum inconvenience for people boarding the train in Rainier Valley or South Seattle to access downtown Bellevue.

    ” …no person in the United States shall, on the grounds of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be otherwise subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance from the Department of Transportation.” 49CFR21.1

    “Complaints. Any person who believes himself or any specific class of persons to be subjected to discrimination prohibited by this part may by himself or by a representative file with the Secretary a written complaint. A complaint must be filed not later than 180 days after the date of the alleged discrimination, unless the time for filing is extended by the Secretary.” 49CFR21.11b

  • Robert

    Here’s a test. If light rail only went back and forth between downtown Redmond and downtown Bellevue, do you think Wallace and Freeman would be proposing a station next to a freeway and away from downtown Bellevue?

    Arguing against the “Division Line” using transportation geek arguments is exactly the grounds they want you to argue on. The “Division Line” is a purposeful exclusionary scheme to create maximum inconvenience for people boarding the train in Rainier Valley or South Seattle to access downtown Bellevue.

    ” …no person in the United States shall, on the grounds of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be otherwise subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance from the Department of Transportation.” 49CFR21.1

    “Complaints. Any person who believes himself or any specific class of persons to be subjected to discrimination prohibited by this part may by himself or by a representative file with the Secretary a written complaint. A complaint must be filed not later than 180 days after the date of the alleged discrimination, unless the time for filing is extended by the Secretary.” 49CFR21.11b

  • Chris Stefan

    I know people like the sound of some sort of anti-poor people or racist agenda on the part of Wallace (or Freeman) lets not forget that poor people and people of color own cars and that there is frequent bus service between Seattle (with a stop in Rainier Valley no less) and Downtown Bellevue.

  • Chris Stefan

    I know people like the sound of some sort of anti-poor people or racist agenda on the part of Wallace (or Freeman) lets not forget that poor people and people of color own cars and that there is frequent bus service between Seattle (with a stop in Rainier Valley no less) and Downtown Bellevue.

  • Danny K

    Doesn’t the proposed “Vision Line” also cut a big swath through Mercer Slough? I think this should be a good argument against it. There are baby ducks living there!

  • Danny K

    Doesn’t the proposed “Vision Line” also cut a big swath through Mercer Slough? I think this should be a good argument against it. There are baby ducks living there!

  • oh hi

    As a Seattle-to-Bellevue commuter (sadly), the resistance to efficient mass transit between urban business centers (Seattle, Bellevue) comes across as a refusal to not accept Bellevue’s changing composition towards a more commuter-heavy core. You have to remember that those fighting light rail and pushing forward to the inconvenient Vision Line are wealthy land owners.

    This is about protecting high-end “centers” and making these difficult to reach–assuming that the more difficult it is to reach, the more “elite” it must be. Well, also keeping out the riff-raff that wear hair curlers and flip flops to the mall, right Kemper?

  • oh hi

    As a Seattle-to-Bellevue commuter (sadly), the resistance to efficient mass transit between urban business centers (Seattle, Bellevue) comes across as a refusal to not accept Bellevue’s changing composition towards a more commuter-heavy core. You have to remember that those fighting light rail and pushing forward to the inconvenient Vision Line are wealthy land owners.

    This is about protecting high-end “centers” and making these difficult to reach–assuming that the more difficult it is to reach, the more “elite” it must be. Well, also keeping out the riff-raff that wear hair curlers and flip flops to the mall, right Kemper?

  • earnest thompson

    All wrong! What you need to do is run the light rail line right through the middle of the freeway! Use those dumb Diamond Lanes. Then when people are sitting in stop and go traffic and see the train speed by they will be VERY tempted to take the light rail next time.I lived in Japan and Europe for years and never ever needed a car.