Viva La Cola!

Founded in January 2009, PubliCola is a blog about Seattle written by journalists who are dedicated to non-partisan, original daily reporting that prioritizes a balanced approach to news. Started by longtime local editor and award-winning reporter Josh Feit, PubliCola is the first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol.

PubliCola was off and running. In June 2009, PubliCola hired another award-winning journalist, super-sourced Seattle city hall reporter Erica C. Barnett.

People were afraid that blogging would change journalism. Instead, we believe journalism can change blogging. Twenty-first century journalism may look and feel different, and yes Erica isn't afraid to get cranky, but we're committed to making sure online news still delivers independent, reliable, even-keeled coverage. And most of all, we're committed to making sure the coverage sparks honest civic debate.

Bringing you cola for the people, PubliCola is named after Publius Valerius PubliCola, the alias for the authors of the Federalist Papers—the original bloggers.

The first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol and Seattle city hall, PubliCola has been called a “must-read” by the Seattle Post Intelligencer and a hot “New Media Mover and Shaker” by Seattle Magazine—which also cited our own Erica C. Barnett as the city's No. 1 news nerd.

Moon Disappointed in McGinn’s Seawall Proposal

Cary Moon, head of the anti-tunnel People’s Waterfront Coalition and one of Mayor Mike McGinn’s “ambassadors” (informal citizen advisors) after last year’s election, says she’s disappointed in his decision to move forward quickly with a measure to replace the seawall without involving the city council or coming up with a comprehensive plan for the downtown waterfront.

“I think he didn’t do enough research before proposing it,” Moon says. “You can’t just say, ‘trust me,’ you have to show them.”

Moon, a landscape architect who has been involved with waterfront planning since 2004, points out that the seawall design McGinn used to reach his $291 million cost estimate was based on the now-defunct cut-and-cover tunnel, of which the seawall would have been one side.

Now that the city and state are planning to build a deep-bore tunnel away from the waterfront instead, the seawall and tunnel projects can truly be considered separately. That changes what can be built, Moon says.

“In 2006, when they were going to do a waterfront cut-and-cover tunnel they designed this super-massive Great Wall of China seawall,” Moon says. “There are lots of different ways you can solve the same problem that are more people-friendly and more fish-friendly and probably cheaper and better for Puget Sound. Why wouldn’t you do that?”

Last night, council member Sally Bagshaw (a tunnel fan) publicly addressed mayoral advisor Ethan Raup at the waterfront committee’s monthly meeting. She recalls telling Raup that the council “hopes to work with the mayor’s office and do it in a real comprehensive and thoughtful way, not just piecemeal.”

She also questioned whether replacing the seawall, parts of which have been shored up in recent years, was really the emergency McGinn has claimed. “If it’s really an emergency, if McGinn’s got some new information that’s different than what we believe is the case. … then it shouldn’t be subjected to a public vote. If it’s a critical need, we should do it. We don’t say to the public, ‘This is an emergency, do you want us to fix the dike?’”

A bigger problem, Moon says, is that city leaders don’t know what McGinn’s larger plan is for future levies that may be more important than the seawall. “The council absolutely deserves to have a big-picture view of all the levies McGinn is planning and what his priorities are,” Moon says. “Where’s that transparency and collaboration and openness that everyone thought he stood for?”

McGinn plans to present the case for a May seawall vote at Monday’s morning city council briefing. However, council leaders have made it clear that a May vote is unlikely.


  • Waterfront for everyone

    Erica, were you even at the waterfront meeting? It was two days ago, not yesterday.

  • Waterfront for everyone

    Erica, were you even at the waterfront meeting? It was two days ago, not yesterday.

  • Erica C. Barnett

    I wrote this post yesterday, so that’s a typo. And no, I wasn’t at the meeting — as my quote from Sally B. makes clear.

  • Erica C. Barnett

    I wrote this post yesterday, so that’s a typo. And no, I wasn’t at the meeting — as my quote from Sally B. makes clear.

  • the joneses

    Erica, are you going to follow-up on the Chris Bushnell story? He has been hiring and firing for McGinn ever since he was elected. It appears that you have been promised something from this administration by your refusal to call him out. The rest of us are waiting or do we go to another new source?

  • the joneses

    Erica, are you going to follow-up on the Chris Bushnell story? He has been hiring and firing for McGinn ever since he was elected. It appears that you have been promised something from this administration by your refusal to call him out. The rest of us are waiting or do we go to another new source?

  • gloomy gus

    the joneses, this is the second thread you’ve creeped out with that comment. Remember, if you wear your tinfoil hat every day it gets all dented and loses it shielding power. Be sure to let it rest in your sock drawer now and then. Thanks.

  • Waterfront for everyone

    That’s rich– Erica is really taking it easy on McGinn.

  • Waterfront for everyone

    That’s rich– Erica is really taking it easy on McGinn.

  • http://inkosun.ru/ Lebedinskij

    Я извиняюсь, но, по-моему, Вы ошибаетесь. Могу это доказать.

  • http://inkosun.ru Lebedinskij

    Я извиняюсь, но, по-моему, Вы ошибаетесь. Могу это доказать.

  • hmmmm

    schadenfreude.

  • hmmmm

    schadenfreude.

  • hmmmm

    hey, just got a robopoll with questions about taxes for the seawall, light rail, bike, pedestrian, and the school levy. nothing about the promenade/waterfront :(

  • hmmmm

    hey, just got a robopoll with questions about taxes for the seawall, light rail, bike, pedestrian, and the school levy. nothing about the promenade/waterfront :(

  • Idiocracy

    The whole thing is rather bizarre!

    A Mayor who runs on one issue — anti-Tunnel, two weeks before the election says he’ll follow the city council.

    Then he rebukes them. Then he proposes a “sea wall” something that was never mentioned.

    Does McGinn have all his marbles or what?

  • Idiocracy

    The whole thing is rather bizarre!

    A Mayor who runs on one issue — anti-Tunnel, two weeks before the election says he’ll follow the city council.

    Then he rebukes them. Then he proposes a “sea wall” something that was never mentioned.

    Does McGinn have all his marbles or what?

  • Brenda Helverson

    Without a functioning seawall, the Seattle waterfront will quickly wash away. The land behind the seawall is fill. Don’t believe it? Just look at a map of early Seattle when 1st Avenue was very near Elliott Bay. Replacing the seawall will be a long and disruptive process and Mayor McGinn is wise to start the process as quickly as possible.

    Architect Moon seems to misunderstand the purpose of a seawall – to protect structures on the land from invasion by the sea. Because the sea is eternal and relentless, it is foolish to give it any opening to continue its neverending destruction.

    Does Architect Moon have any ideas for us? Fine, let’s hear them. But the days when anyone could eat a fish from Elliott Bay are long gone. After looking at the filth under the existing piers, It’s hard to see why anyone would want direct access to Elliott Bay. As long as Seattle is a working port, this will not change any time soon.

    We are stuck with the waterfront that we have and not the waterfront that we would like to have. There will be plenty of opportunity to refine the seawall plan over the next few years and nobody, including Mayor McGinn, knows what sort of seawall will actually be built. There is nothing to be gained by planning the seawall to death in advance.

  • Brenda Helverson

    Without a functioning seawall, the Seattle waterfront will quickly wash away. The land behind the seawall is fill. Don’t believe it? Just look at a map of early Seattle when 1st Avenue was very near Elliott Bay. Replacing the seawall will be a long and disruptive process and Mayor McGinn is wise to start the process as quickly as possible.

    Architect Moon seems to misunderstand the purpose of a seawall – to protect structures on the land from invasion by the sea. Because the sea is eternal and relentless, it is foolish to give it any opening to continue its neverending destruction.

    Does Architect Moon have any ideas for us? Fine, let’s hear them. But the days when anyone could eat a fish from Elliott Bay are long gone. After looking at the filth under the existing piers, It’s hard to see why anyone would want direct access to Elliott Bay. As long as Seattle is a working port, this will not change any time soon.

    We are stuck with the waterfront that we have and not the waterfront that we would like to have. There will be plenty of opportunity to refine the seawall plan over the next few years and nobody, including Mayor McGinn, knows what sort of seawall will actually be built. There is nothing to be gained by planning the seawall to death in advance.

  • hmmm

    I like sally bagshaw, she is smart and would make a better mayor than McGinn. I was disappointed that publicola didn’t support her in the election for city council or that publicola seemed to not support many women at all (except for school board…were there no men running for those seats?), reminds me of a new mayor we have.

  • hmmm

    I like sally bagshaw, she is smart and would make a better mayor than McGinn. I was disappointed that publicola didn’t support her in the election for city council or that publicola seemed to not support many women at all (except for school board…were there no men running for those seats?), reminds me of a new mayor we have.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Brenda Helverson,
    Why wasn’t the deputy director at sdot as alarmed 6 weeks ago in this interview as you, and Mayor McGinn?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010462664_apwaseattleseawall.html
    Bob Powers, deputy director of the Seattle Department of Transportation, has some advice for the more than 100 consultants and contractors who have sought information on the project from the city: “be cutting edge.” He said to reconnect downtown with the waterfront, the new wall must be very different than the vertical one that exists today.

    SDOT put out a request for qualifications from seawall design teams last month. The deadline to submit has been extended three weeks to Jan. 8, according to Powers, because there have been a lot of questions from consultants. He said the extension allows city officials to respond to those inquiries and say more about the qualities the city is seeking in a team.

    Powers and Bob Chandler, SDOT’s program manager for the Alaskan Way Viaduct and seawall replacement program, said different teams may be hired for different stretches of the seawall. Teams likely will include waterfront planners, marine biologists, architects, urban planners, engineers and community outreach specialists.

    “We really want to come at this a little differently than just an engineering job,” Chandler said.

    Construction bids will be sought when design is complete. Test construction could begin in 2012, but the bulk of the work is expected to start in 2013 and last three years, with substantial completion in 2015, according to Chandler. In late 2015 or 2016, the city will begin a projected $123 million project to create public space along the waterfront.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Brenda Helverson,
    Why wasn’t the deputy director at sdot as alarmed 6 weeks ago in this interview as you, and Mayor McGinn?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010462664_apwaseattleseawall.html
    Bob Powers, deputy director of the Seattle Department of Transportation, has some advice for the more than 100 consultants and contractors who have sought information on the project from the city: “be cutting edge.” He said to reconnect downtown with the waterfront, the new wall must be very different than the vertical one that exists today.

    SDOT put out a request for qualifications from seawall design teams last month. The deadline to submit has been extended three weeks to Jan. 8, according to Powers, because there have been a lot of questions from consultants. He said the extension allows city officials to respond to those inquiries and say more about the qualities the city is seeking in a team.

    Powers and Bob Chandler, SDOT’s program manager for the Alaskan Way Viaduct and seawall replacement program, said different teams may be hired for different stretches of the seawall. Teams likely will include waterfront planners, marine biologists, architects, urban planners, engineers and community outreach specialists.

    “We really want to come at this a little differently than just an engineering job,” Chandler said.

    Construction bids will be sought when design is complete. Test construction could begin in 2012, but the bulk of the work is expected to start in 2013 and last three years, with substantial completion in 2015, according to Chandler. In late 2015 or 2016, the city will begin a projected $123 million project to create public space along the waterfront.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Hmmmm, “I like sally bagshaw, she is smart and would make a better mayor than McGinn.”.
    I agree, 100%. of all of the new candidates in last Fall’s election she was the most impressive to me. I watched all those online interviews, ST, Seattle Channel, etc.
    She is operating on another level.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr. Baker

    Hmmmm, “I like sally bagshaw, she is smart and would make a better mayor than McGinn.”.
    I agree, 100%. of all of the new candidates in last Fall’s election she was the most impressive to me. I watched all those online interviews, ST, Seattle Channel, etc.
    She is operating on another level.

  • Voters Remorse

    “Where’s that transparency and collaboration and openness that everyone thought he stood for?”

    Ha ha ha ha ha! Only 51% of the electorate bought that– hardly “everyone”. KoolAid drinkers, welcome back to the real world. For a man who was well known within city and neighborhood circles for being an arrogant meeting addict with a compelling need to be “the smartest guy in the room”, it’s pretty funny that so many people are acting like this is a surprise.

  • Voters Remorse

    “Where’s that transparency and collaboration and openness that everyone thought he stood for?”

    Ha ha ha ha ha! Only 51% of the electorate bought that– hardly “everyone”. KoolAid drinkers, welcome back to the real world. For a man who was well known within city and neighborhood circles for being an arrogant meeting addict with a compelling need to be “the smartest guy in the room”, it’s pretty funny that so many people are acting like this is a surprise.

  • 1 in ten

    ratehr than focusing on someone’s feelings, hosabout starting with the facts, e.g., if there or is there not a one in ten chance the seawall will fail in ten years as the mayor said today?

    the petty dramas of feelings and etiquette make for easy “stories” but please, at some point get to the substance.

    Are we gambling with safety? Or not? Much depends on that. Frankly, if there is a one in ten chance I don’t care a whit about someone feeling disappointed we’re not going to plan for years more. If the mayor is spouting scary bullshit to scare us and pander, then call him on it. This is the heart of the story, not someone’s feeling “disappointed”……

    (kinda reminds me of many personal fights…..but I feel disappointed…um, can we talk about what really happened at some point? ….. no it’s important you understand how I feel first…..well how I feel about that depends on what really happened…..oh you’re so unfeeling, etc.).

    Is this an engineering problem or a group therapy issue about ensuring everyone feels okay?

    I don’t think the gribbles care about our feelings btw, nor does the ocean.

  • 1 in ten

    ratehr than focusing on someone’s feelings, hosabout starting with the facts, e.g., if there or is there not a one in ten chance the seawall will fail in ten years as the mayor said today?

    the petty dramas of feelings and etiquette make for easy “stories” but please, at some point get to the substance.

    Are we gambling with safety? Or not? Much depends on that. Frankly, if there is a one in ten chance I don’t care a whit about someone feeling disappointed we’re not going to plan for years more. If the mayor is spouting scary bullshit to scare us and pander, then call him on it. This is the heart of the story, not someone’s feeling “disappointed”……

    (kinda reminds me of many personal fights…..but I feel disappointed…um, can we talk about what really happened at some point? ….. no it’s important you understand how I feel first…..well how I feel about that depends on what really happened…..oh you’re so unfeeling, etc.).

    Is this an engineering problem or a group therapy issue about ensuring everyone feels okay?

    I don’t think the gribbles care about our feelings btw, nor does the ocean.

  • hmmmm, the original with 4 “m”

    come up with your own moniker @5:06 and @6:21

  • hmmmm, the original with 4 “m”s

    come up with your own moniker @5:06 and @6:21

  • Puzzled

    ever seen a seawall fail? makes a huge difference if the land is above or below it, or filled with dirt or empty and if there is extensive exposure to wave action—–the seawalll is many miles long, and it is hard to believe it will all cave in, at once, even in an earthquake. how about having the city or u of w do a realistic computer simulation, put some science behind the paranoia, before rushing to a vote?

  • Puzzled

    ever seen a seawall fail? makes a huge difference if the land is above or below it, or filled with dirt or empty and if there is extensive exposure to wave action—–the seawalll is many miles long, and it is hard to believe it will all cave in, at once, even in an earthquake. how about having the city or u of w do a realistic computer simulation, put some science behind the paranoia, before rushing to a vote?

  • Anonymous

    The biggest strike against Sally Bagshaw is that she hasn’t updated SallyBagshaw.com since before the election…

  • The Trans Parent Trap

    The biggest strike against Sally Bagshaw is that she hasn’t updated SallyBagshaw.com since before the election…

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/2010/01/where-does-rest-of-money-go-and.html Mr. Baker

    I thought the biggest strike against Sally Bagshaw was that she spent too much time explaining to David Bloom that the state constitution prevents the gas tax from being spent of affordable housing. Ok, it was maybe once.

    OT: The spam here is really interesting, have fun filtering, and baby sitting a moderation queue. That’s the joy of not having site registration.

    Also, another OT: HB 2912
    “affordable workforce housing near or at transit stations.”

    http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/2010/01/where-does-rest-of-money-go-and.html

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/2010/01/where-does-rest-of-money-go-and.html Mr. Baker

    I thought the biggest strike against Sally Bagshaw was that she spent too much time explaining to David Bloom that the state constitution prevents the gas tax from being spent of affordable housing. Ok, it was maybe once.

    OT: The spam here is really interesting, have fun filtering, and baby sitting a moderation queue. That’s the joy of not having site registration.

    Also, another OT: HB 2912
    “affordable workforce housing near or at transit stations.”

    http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/2010/01/where-does-rest-of-money-go-and.html

  • ratcityreprobate

    City Council and other angry Mallahan supporters adopt Congressional Republican mantra: Just say No. No. No. No.

  • ratcityreprobate

    City Council and other angry Mallahan supporters adopt Congressional Republican mantra: Just say No. No. No. No.

  • Wells

    I’ve always figured the “Wide Plaza” concept was nonsense, along with the idea that the seawall could cut into it to form beachfronts. Respected architects consider it disproportionate and innappropriate for a working waterfront.

    The traffic which the Deep-bore tunnel displaces onto the new Alaskan Way is about 40,000 vehicles daily or 2500 per hour. Because of this, the 4-lane version may be replaced with a 6-lane version, reducing the width of the Wide Plaza. Even then, a 6-lane version may not ably manage traffic.

    Early Alaskan Way designs (pre-Crunican) incorporated a 2-lane frontage road. This design would manage traffic better than either 4-lane or 6-lane versions of Alaskan Way without it, but it would cut into the Wide Plaza even more. It would create an island similar to the existing streetcar, ped/bike path. The island and frontage road could be used for the streetcar and bus lines that would run east from Coleman Dock. The frontage road would divide thru-traffic from motorists looking to park. At least 3 of the planned 13 stoplights between Pike and King Streets along Alaskan Way could be eliminated. Less traffic on Alaskan Way, fewer stoplights, better access, but no wide plaza, psuedo-environmentalists having a cow notwithstanding.

    I am glad Grace Crunican is gone. Now pull down her worst work, the Deep-bore tunnel, Mercer West, and the Alaskan Way redesign.

  • Wells

    I’ve always figured the “Wide Plaza” concept was nonsense, along with the idea that the seawall could cut into it to form beachfronts. Respected architects consider it disproportionate and innappropriate for a working waterfront.

    The traffic which the Deep-bore tunnel displaces onto the new Alaskan Way is about 40,000 vehicles daily or 2500 per hour. Because of this, the 4-lane version may be replaced with a 6-lane version, reducing the width of the Wide Plaza. Even then, a 6-lane version may not ably manage traffic.

    Early Alaskan Way designs (pre-Crunican) incorporated a 2-lane frontage road. This design would manage traffic better than either 4-lane or 6-lane versions of Alaskan Way without it, but it would cut into the Wide Plaza even more. It would create an island similar to the existing streetcar, ped/bike path. The island and frontage road could be used for the streetcar and bus lines that would run east from Coleman Dock. The frontage road would divide thru-traffic from motorists looking to park. At least 3 of the planned 13 stoplights between Pike and King Streets along Alaskan Way could be eliminated. Less traffic on Alaskan Way, fewer stoplights, better access, but no wide plaza, psuedo-environmentalists having a cow notwithstanding.

    I am glad Grace Crunican is gone. Now pull down her worst work, the Deep-bore tunnel, Mercer West, and the Alaskan Way redesign.

  • Spicy McHaggis

    Blah blah blah Welles

    So let’s adopt the surface option and have another 60,000 cars on the street.

  • Spicy McHaggis

    Blah blah blah Welles

    So let’s adopt the surface option and have another 60,000 cars on the street.

  • morning fizzy

    The cut n cover seawall was first twice the cost per foot – $1 billion for 8000 feet. Later it was reduced to $900,000,000 but in no way is this current amount the number from the tunnel days.

  • morning fizzy

    The cut n cover seawall was first twice the cost per foot – $1 billion for 8000 feet. Later it was reduced to $900,000,000 but in no way is this current amount the number from the tunnel days.

  • fred

    I don’t understand why McGinn wants property owners to pay for 100% of the cost instead of putting together a mix of federal grant money, taxing downtown waterfront property owners and having the Port all contribute (which was the plan until McGinn came up with this levy idea). McGinn has probably killed the City’s federal stimulus grant for this project which seems incredibly short sighted to me.

  • fred

    I don’t understand why McGinn wants property owners to pay for 100% of the cost instead of putting together a mix of federal grant money, taxing downtown waterfront property owners and having the Port all contribute (which was the plan until McGinn came up with this levy idea). McGinn has probably killed the City’s federal stimulus grant for this project which seems incredibly short sighted to me.

  • Ritto Ditto

    Wasn’t there a financial packet already planned without having to go to the voters?

  • Ritto Ditto

    Wasn’t there a financial packet already planned without having to go to the voters?

  • Soapboxin’

    OMG, Wells, you finally convinced me!!!! The first 438 times you made this argument, it fell on deaf ears, but I just had an amazing epiphany. You are the only true source of Common Sense and Reason in all of Seattle. Either that or you’re just the single most annoying poster on this blog.

    Seriously, let’s set the record straight – Crunican was a surface option proponent from the start. I couldn’t care less. I’m in the ‘just make a decision and do it’ camp, which is probably the largest plurality in this polarized, frustrating city that we all love.

  • Soapboxin’

    OMG, Wells, you finally convinced me!!!! The first 438 times you made this argument, it fell on deaf ears, but I just had an amazing epiphany. You are the only true source of Common Sense and Reason in all of Seattle. Either that or you’re just the single most annoying poster on this blog.

    Seriously, let’s set the record straight – Crunican was a surface option proponent from the start. I couldn’t care less. I’m in the ‘just make a decision and do it’ camp, which is probably the largest plurality in this polarized, frustrating city that we all love.

  • Mickymse

    When did Publicola entries start to get filled up with so many stupidly inane comments?

    Yes, I do realize that there are still plenty of GOOD commenters ones up above here, and in other threads, as well.

    It seems like everything that mentions McGinn gets responses from anonymous people, folks who clearly have no grasp of reality, folks who didn’t pay any attention to the mayoral campaign, folks who haven’t paid any attention to political issues in the City, or some combination of these.

    For example, WSDOT already did a video of a seawall failure in an earthquake. It was major news. Erica could link to that again.

    Erica could point out that the whole idea for a waterfront tunnel originally came out of plans for how to improve the seawall and reconnect Downtown to the Waterfront. Funny how we have a “done deal” of a Deep Bore Tunnel that so far says little about the replacement of the seawall or the waterfront promenade we were all promised.

    Erica, why don’t you ask the City Council why we shouldn’t discuss other ways of paying for the seawall? Or why don’t you ask them why we should wait any longer to replace the seawall if it’s no longer a part of the Viaduct replacement?

  • Mickymse

    When did Publicola entries start to get filled up with so many stupidly inane comments?

    Yes, I do realize that there are still plenty of GOOD commenters ones up above here, and in other threads, as well.

    It seems like everything that mentions McGinn gets responses from anonymous people, folks who clearly have no grasp of reality, folks who didn’t pay any attention to the mayoral campaign, folks who haven’t paid any attention to political issues in the City, or some combination of these.

    For example, WSDOT already did a video of a seawall failure in an earthquake. It was major news. Erica could link to that again.

    Erica could point out that the whole idea for a waterfront tunnel originally came out of plans for how to improve the seawall and reconnect Downtown to the Waterfront. Funny how we have a “done deal” of a Deep Bore Tunnel that so far says little about the replacement of the seawall or the waterfront promenade we were all promised.

    Erica, why don’t you ask the City Council why we shouldn’t discuss other ways of paying for the seawall? Or why don’t you ask them why we should wait any longer to replace the seawall if it’s no longer a part of the Viaduct replacement?

  • Wells

    Grace Crunican rejected early Alaskan Way redesigns for one that pleased environmentalists – ‘Wide Plaza’ with amenities, double-track streetcar line through the middle, shore access and a 4-lane Alaskan Way. Terrible planning and she must know better. The streetcar line through the wide plaza was dangerous. Duh. Only 5 years wasted on that idea.

    Early Alaskan Way designs (pre-Crunican) incorporated a 2-lane frontage road to divide thru-traffic from motorists looking to park. The Deep-bore displaces 2500 vehicles an hour onto the new Alaskan Way, predicting gridlock all day long, worsened with side traffic. The frontage road would address these traffic problems, but it cuts into the wide plaza to where there’s little left but the original seawall sidewalk.

    Soapboxin’ isn’t so much annoyed as challenged to defend an incompetent SDOT director who has made fools of Seattlers like she did to Portlanders as director of ODOT. Incidentally, she abruptly left the ODOT position in similar controversy with public outrage.

    My perspective is an outsider, I’ll admit, but I’ve made 40-some trips to Seattle to support light rail (beginning in 1996), monorail, streetcar and a sensible AWV replacement, analyze the situations carefully, and am left with no recourse but to conclude blatant incompetence and suspect vile corruption.

    In 2000, when Sound Transit’s Phase 1 Link LRT tunnel to UW budget went bust, why did WSDOT make public their $100 billion wish list demands? Following the Nisqually quake, why did WSDOT make public their most expensive tunnel designs first? Why after 6 years, why did WSDOT still intend to replace the AWV with another elevated monstrosity? Answer: C O R R U P T I O N !!

    As far as I can tell, Grace Crunican went hand in hand with WSDOT on this AWV replacement fiasco. Mayor Mike has his work cut out for him. The Deep-bore is abominable engineering. Seattlers are clueless.

  • Wells

    Grace Crunican rejected early Alaskan Way redesigns for one that pleased environmentalists – ‘Wide Plaza’ with amenities, double-track streetcar line through the middle, shore access and a 4-lane Alaskan Way. Terrible planning and she must know better. The streetcar line through the wide plaza was dangerous. Duh. Only 5 years wasted on that idea.

    Early Alaskan Way designs (pre-Crunican) incorporated a 2-lane frontage road to divide thru-traffic from motorists looking to park. The Deep-bore displaces 2500 vehicles an hour onto the new Alaskan Way, predicting gridlock all day long, worsened with side traffic. The frontage road would address these traffic problems, but it cuts into the wide plaza to where there’s little left but the original seawall sidewalk.

    Soapboxin’ isn’t so much annoyed as challenged to defend an incompetent SDOT director who has made fools of Seattlers like she did to Portlanders as director of ODOT. Incidentally, she abruptly left the ODOT position in similar controversy with public outrage.

    My perspective is an outsider, I’ll admit, but I’ve made 40-some trips to Seattle to support light rail (beginning in 1996), monorail, streetcar and a sensible AWV replacement, analyze the situations carefully, and am left with no recourse but to conclude blatant incompetence and suspect vile corruption.

    In 2000, when Sound Transit’s Phase 1 Link LRT tunnel to UW budget went bust, why did WSDOT make public their $100 billion wish list demands? Following the Nisqually quake, why did WSDOT make public their most expensive tunnel designs first? Why after 6 years, why did WSDOT still intend to replace the AWV with another elevated monstrosity? Answer: C O R R U P T I O N !!

    As far as I can tell, Grace Crunican went hand in hand with WSDOT on this AWV replacement fiasco. Mayor Mike has his work cut out for him. The Deep-bore is abominable engineering. Seattlers are clueless.

  • Wells

    Spicy McHaggis? Listen, I’ve been for “Tunnelite” since 2002, WSDOT’s Scenario ‘G’ 4-lane cut/cover tunnel of 2008. My formally submitted drawings that year and since are evidence. It may be that other cut/cover waterfront tunnel designs (6-lane stacked) would be better. In the long run, a cut/cover is better than the Deep-bore because it maintains the Western/Elliott access, creates the strongest seawall and most stable Alaskan Way surface, costs less, creates many more construction jobs, reduces traffic on Alaskan Way and Mercer, etc.

  • Wells

    Spicy McHaggis? Listen, I’ve been for “Tunnelite” since 2002, WSDOT’s Scenario ‘G’ 4-lane cut/cover tunnel of 2008. My formally submitted drawings that year and since are evidence. It may be that other cut/cover waterfront tunnel designs (6-lane stacked) would be better. In the long run, a cut/cover is better than the Deep-bore because it maintains the Western/Elliott access, creates the strongest seawall and most stable Alaskan Way surface, costs less, creates many more construction jobs, reduces traffic on Alaskan Way and Mercer, etc.

  • Soapboxin’

    Mickymse, I’m sure that post made perfect sense in your head, but it comes off as semi-coherent rambling to others. You didn’t sound any smarter or better-informed than anyone else who posts here.

  • Soapboxin’

    Mickymse, I’m sure that post made perfect sense in your head, but it comes off as semi-coherent rambling to others. You didn’t sound any smarter or better-informed than anyone else who posts here.

  • Soapboxin’

    Wells, I have 3 potential theories on why you waste so much time commenting on Seattle issues (here, the Times, where else?) when you’re from Portland. Here they are:
    1. You’re a Grace Crunican stalker who followed her up here. Does that mean you’ll go away on Feb. 5 when she leaves? She’s not perfect, but there’s no way in hell she’s corrupt.
    2. They kicked you off of every comment board in Portland, so you’re spreading your manure up here. Do you put as much energy into annoying people in your own hometown?
    3. You’re an engineer (rather than a lawyer) who, like McGinn, suffers from ‘smartest guy in the room’ syndrome. Your idea got rejected and you can’t get over it. We may be clueless, but you are just sad.

  • Soapboxin’

    Wells, I have 3 potential theories on why you waste so much time commenting on Seattle issues (here, the Times, where else?) when you’re from Portland. Here they are:
    1. You’re a Grace Crunican stalker who followed her up here. Does that mean you’ll go away on Feb. 5 when she leaves? She’s not perfect, but there’s no way in hell she’s corrupt.
    2. They kicked you off of every comment board in Portland, so you’re spreading your manure up here. Do you put as much energy into annoying people in your own hometown?
    3. You’re an engineer (rather than a lawyer) who, like McGinn, suffers from ‘smartest guy in the room’ syndrome. Your idea got rejected and you can’t get over it. We may be clueless, but you are just sad.

  • Wells

    Soapboxin, How about you just allow me my say? Some people may find my perspective useful in turning failing transportation projects around. I don’t actually relish the disgust I feel toward people like yourself who’s only contribution is to shoot the messenger. I’m sure many people would appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt by withholding your silly ire. I’m only asking the tough questions as analytically as I can. The entire bored tunnel project is an engineering travesty. It’s obvious there’s much too much wrong with it.

  • Wells

    Soapboxin, How about you just allow me my say? Some people may find my perspective useful in turning failing transportation projects around. I don’t actually relish the disgust I feel toward people like yourself who’s only contribution is to shoot the messenger. I’m sure many people would appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt by withholding your silly ire. I’m only asking the tough questions as analytically as I can. The entire bored tunnel project is an engineering travesty. It’s obvious there’s much too much wrong with it.

  • tom

    I was just googling seattle sea wall when I found this thread-threat

    What are the fricking details of the problem and the proposal?

    width/length/engineering/amenities/impacts?????

    (btw, I have lost a lot of faith in Chicken Little… wrong on communism, wrong on iraq, wrong on earthquakes — but probably not wrong about global warming… Chicken Little is usually just used to stimulate somebody’s personal package)

    Factless, I don’t know how to view this proposal, but I do know from 60 years of experience and examination that our our state shorelines are a disaster created by all of us but especially the boomers and the government dunderheads, including the environmentally correct technotwits

    (we’ve got 800 miles of armament on 2500 miles of Puget Sound shoreline)

    and the debate about this deserves to be full and fierce

    there is always a better way

    oh, and to the pointy head who says no fish in Elliott Bay — well, we’ve got several runs of salmon and lots of local fish and the point is to make their condition better not worse.

  • tom

    I was just googling seattle sea wall when I found this thread-threat

    What are the fricking details of the problem and the proposal?

    width/length/engineering/amenities/impacts?????

    (btw, I have lost a lot of faith in Chicken Little… wrong on communism, wrong on iraq, wrong on earthquakes — but probably not wrong about global warming… Chicken Little is usually just used to stimulate somebody’s personal package)

    Factless, I don’t know how to view this proposal, but I do know from 60 years of experience and examination that our our state shorelines are a disaster created by all of us but especially the boomers and the government dunderheads, including the environmentally correct technotwits

    (we’ve got 800 miles of armament on 2500 miles of Puget Sound shoreline)

    and the debate about this deserves to be full and fierce

    there is always a better way

    oh, and to the pointy head who says no fish in Elliott Bay — well, we’ve got several runs of salmon and lots of local fish and the point is to make their condition better not worse.

  • tom

    I was just googling seattle sea wall when I found this thread-threat

    What are the fricking details of the problem and the proposal?

    width/length/engineering/amenities/impacts?????

    (btw, I have lost a lot of faith in Chicken Little… wrong on communism, wrong on iraq, wrong on earthquakes — but probably not wrong about global warming… Chicken Little is usually just used to stimulate somebody’s personal package)

    Factless, I don’t know how to view this proposal, but I do know from 60 years of experience and examination that our our state shorelines are a disaster created by all of us but especially the boomers and the government dunderheads, including the environmentally correct technotwits

    (we’ve got 800 miles of armament on 2500 miles of Puget Sound shoreline)

    and the debate about this deserves to be full and fierce

    there is always a better way

    oh, and to the pointy head who says no fish in Elliott Bay — well, we’ve got several runs of salmon and lots of local fish and the point is to make their condition better not worse.

  • gloomy gus

    the joneses, this is the second thread you've creeped out with that comment. Remember, if you wear your tinfoil hat every day it gets all dented and loses it shielding power. Be sure to let it rest in your sock drawer now and then. Thanks.