Speaking of the Tea Party Movement

Cary Moon is not a “planning expert” She is a landscape designer with a long history of opposition to the tunnel. Let’s not pretend she is some kind of neutral third party with any real experience planning large transportation projects.

As for the popularity of the tea party movement, I would guess that has a lot to do with the name. Very few polls show that the ideas they prattle on about have much traction outside of libertarians and hardcore conservatives. That an a smattering of conspiracy theorists.

Cary Moon is not a “planning expert” She is a landscape designer with a long history of opposition to the tunnel. Let’s not pretend she is some kind of neutral third party with any real experience planning large transportation projects.

As for the popularity of the tea party movement, I would guess that has a lot to do with the name. Very few polls show that the ideas they prattle on about have much traction outside of libertarians and hardcore conservatives. That an a smattering of conspiracy theorists.

If they’re opposed to the tunnel, they’re automatically an expert. Remember, there’s only supposed to be a “dose” of objectivity here, per Josh.

If they’re opposed to the tunnel, they’re automatically an expert. Remember, there’s only supposed to be a “dose” of objectivity here, per Josh.

Giffy, do you believe that there are, in fact, neutral third party planning experts?
In transportation and land use?

Looking around Seattle, do you see any evidence at all that such creatures exist? Because we have such great transportation and land use ?

Would you not agree these decisions are at bottom political and cannot be solved thru so called neutral, rational, objective scientific planning?

Giffy, do you believe that there are, in fact, neutral third party planning experts?
In transportation and land use?

Looking around Seattle, do you see any evidence at all that such creatures exist? Because we have such great transportation and land use ?

Would you not agree these decisions are at bottom political and cannot be solved thru so called neutral, rational, objective scientific planning?

@3 There are people who study transportation planning for a living and don’t run an organization that is explicitly against the tunnel. It would be correct to call them planning experts, even though they most likely have ideological biases and preferences. It is not correct to portray an activist with no relevant experience in as an expert.

I agree these are political decisions as well as engineering ones, but that is beside the point here. The point is not that she should not be advocating and fighting for her preferred solution, only that she should not be portrayed as some kind of expert on planning.

Well, Chris Widener’s got the GOP talking points down pat. Vague so they’re flexible enough to help him escape whatever corner he gets backed into, but sure to appeal to the fearful and ignorant right wingers who lack the critical thinking skills to realize that they are all contradictions.

Helping Americans Live the American Dream through:
Economic Prosperity through lower taxes, reducing the national debt and cutting spending

Strong National Security to keep America safe

Promoting Economic vitality and growth for individuals and
businesses

Affordable, Quality health care for all Americans through the free market system

@3 There are people who study transportation planning for a living and don’t run an organization that is explicitly against the tunnel. It would be correct to call them planning experts, even though they most likely have ideological biases and preferences. It is not correct to portray an activist with no relevant experience in as an expert.

I agree these are political decisions as well as engineering ones, but that is beside the point here. The point is not that she should not be advocating and fighting for her preferred solution, only that she should not be portrayed as some kind of expert on planning.

Well, Chris Widener’s got the GOP talking points down pat. Vague so they’re flexible enough to help him escape whatever corner he gets backed into, but sure to appeal to the fearful and ignorant right wingers who lack the critical thinking skills to realize that they are all contradictions.

Helping Americans Live the American Dream through:
Economic Prosperity through lower taxes, reducing the national debt and cutting spending

Strong National Security to keep America safe

Promoting Economic vitality and growth for individuals and
businesses

Affordable, Quality health care for all Americans through the free market system

At this point I no longer care if it’s a tunnel (which I did/do support), a street or a large post on the side propping up the viaduct. I want a safe, earthquake- resistant way to get into downtown that doesn’t involve spending an unreasonable amount of time stuck in traffic on I5. I commute over the viaduct twice 5 days a week. My primary concern is safety, not overruns, not architecture, not beauty, or any other the other issues that people cannot agree on and never will. Get something, anything! in place so I and other travelers don’t have to be so concerned when we’re heading to work.

At this point I no longer care if it’s a tunnel (which I did/do support), a street or a large post on the side propping up the viaduct. I want a safe, earthquake- resistant way to get into downtown that doesn’t involve spending an unreasonable amount of time stuck in traffic on I5. I commute over the viaduct twice 5 days a week. My primary concern is safety, not overruns, not architecture, not beauty, or any other the other issues that people cannot agree on and never will. Get something, anything! in place so I and other travelers don’t have to be so concerned when we’re heading to work.

A backlash that flips Rodney Tom’s seat would be a fantastic development for progressives in the State Senate.

A backlash that flips Rodney Tom’s seat would be a fantastic development for progressives in the State Senate.

Thanks for updating to indicate that she is a surface option proponent. I would still say it is inaccurate to call her a planning expert though given her complete lack of any actual education or experience in planning. Design sure, planning no.

Thanks for updating to indicate that she is a surface option proponent. I would still say it is inaccurate to call her a planning expert though given her complete lack of any actual education or experience in planning. Design sure, planning no.

I’ve had the opportunity to speak with Cary on several different occasions, and I can say without a doubt that she understands the issues re: the waterfront and tunnel/viaduct far better than most. You don’t need a formal “planning” education to understand these issues – you need vision, the ability to learn, and access to people who know the issues in and out. Cary has all of these in spades, and an incredible ability to process minutia while retaining a long term view. The problem with most transit planners, especially when employed by gov’t agencies, is that they’re MO is defined by car capacity and towing the line. That automatically narrows your vision down and leaves very little room for innovation. Whether the tunnel gets built or not, Cary has broadened the dialogue on the issue tremendously. We’re really lucky to have her voice at the table.

I’ve had the opportunity to speak with Cary on several different occasions, and I can say without a doubt that she understands the issues re: the waterfront and tunnel/viaduct far better than most. You don’t need a formal “planning” education to understand these issues – you need vision, the ability to learn, and access to people who know the issues in and out. Cary has all of these in spades, and an incredible ability to process minutia while retaining a long term view. The problem with most transit planners, especially when employed by gov’t agencies, is that they’re MO is defined by car capacity and towing the line. That automatically narrows your vision down and leaves very little room for innovation. Whether the tunnel gets built or not, Cary has broadened the dialogue on the issue tremendously. We’re really lucky to have her voice at the table.

The story linked is speculative, and missing facts to base the speculation and opinion on.

The sky might be falling.

I would be happy to oppose projected cost overruns based on more engineering, analyzed by a Professional Engineer (P.E.).

The swag by the lawyer/lobbyist/mayor does not count, neither does that bullshit Cary Moon is selling (same thing).

This isn’t “news”, it must be “Elixir”.

The story linked is speculative, and missing facts to base the speculation and opinion on.

The sky might be falling.

I would be happy to oppose projected cost overruns based on more engineering, analyzed by a Professional Engineer (P.E.).

The swag by the lawyer/lobbyist/mayor does not count, neither does that bullshit Cary Moon is selling (same thing).

This isn’t “news”, it must be “Elixir”.

The tunnel is a done deal, and no amount of “is not!” memes from Moom and you guyd will change that wishful thinking. What happened to McGinn’s “I will not obstruct” promise? Is he lying now? Or was he lying then?

The tunnel is a done deal, and no amount of “is not!” memes from Moom and you guyd will change that wishful thinking. What happened to McGinn’s “I will not obstruct” promise? Is he lying now? Or was he lying then?

@9, then she should produce facts and analysis, rather than an opinion.

Really, Josh, the presence of challengers doesn’t mean Patty Murray is anything less than invincible. It’s rare for an incumbent senator to run unopposed no matter how popular they are. Murray’s approval rating is over 50% and she has more than $4 million COH. The Vice President has already done one fundraiser for her and we can rest assured that won’t be the only VIP fundraising event she does this cycle. Cook still ranks WA as “Solid D” and Rothenberg says Murray’s seat is “Safe.” Nate Silver puts WA clear down at #31 of 38 on his ranking of seats most likely to change parties. And if we recall 2004 – George Nethercutt was hardly a perfect GOP candidate, but as a member of Congress he was certainly more well known, well funded, and formidable than either of Murray’s two current Emerged Challengers–and she still whomped him 55/43.

@9, then she should produce facts and analysis, rather than an opinion.

Really, Josh, the presence of challengers doesn’t mean Patty Murray is anything less than invincible. It’s rare for an incumbent senator to run unopposed no matter how popular they are. Murray’s approval rating is over 50% and she has more than $4 million COH. The Vice President has already done one fundraiser for her and we can rest assured that won’t be the only VIP fundraising event she does this cycle. Cook still ranks WA as “Solid D” and Rothenberg says Murray’s seat is “Safe.” Nate Silver puts WA clear down at #31 of 38 on his ranking of seats most likely to change parties. And if we recall 2004 – George Nethercutt was hardly a perfect GOP candidate, but as a member of Congress he was certainly more well known, well funded, and formidable than either of Murray’s two current Emerged Challengers–and she still whomped him 55/43.

Shorter

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=316796

written by, edited by

not only is Cary Moon’s story a present opinion, but so is the opinion for Publicola.
Advocating for and advocate.

Shorter

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=316796

written by, edited by

not only is Cary Moon’s story a present opinion, but so is the opinion for Publicola.
Advocating for and advocate.

@13 I agree. The addition of another lackluster challenger against Murry does not make her any less invincible.

@13 I agree. The addition of another lackluster challenger against Murry does not make her any less invincible.

The GOP doesn’t even have a top tier challenger to run against Murray. Why they’ll even try is beyond me.

The GOP doesn’t even have a top tier challenger to run against Murray. Why they’ll even try is beyond me.

@13 I seem to recall a certain mayoral candidate who was similarly regarded as invincible – plenty of cash on hand & a coalition of political backed unlikely to stray. Murray’s approval numbers may be high, it’s a long time before November.

@13 I seem to recall a certain mayoral candidate who was similarly regarded as invincible – plenty of cash on hand & a coalition of political backed unlikely to stray. Murray’s approval numbers may be high, it’s a long time before November.

Seattle transportation planning ‘experts’ are either incompetent, corrupt or both and their ‘expertice’ must be questioned rather than awarded our trust.

Cary Moon presents a progressive transportation and land-use planning philosophy that challenges the status quo. The principles she espouses however are perfectly aligned with the ‘New School’ planning philosophy known as New Urbanism that is practiced by thousands of professional ‘experts’.

The Deep-bore tunnel is horrendous engineering. It will flood the new Alaskan Way with bumper-to-bumper. The Mercer ‘West’ project will turn that street into a freight corridor between I-5 and Elliott, as if there isn’t already too much traffic there. In the most nightmarish earthquake scenario, a collapse of the wrong segment of the Deep-bore could topple a downtown skycraper, absolutely too great a risk.

Seattle transportation planning ‘experts’ are either incompetent, corrupt or both and their ‘expertice’ must be questioned rather than awarded our trust.

Cary Moon presents a progressive transportation and land-use planning philosophy that challenges the status quo. The principles she espouses however are perfectly aligned with the ‘New School’ planning philosophy known as New Urbanism that is practiced by thousands of professional ‘experts’.

The Deep-bore tunnel is horrendous engineering. It will flood the new Alaskan Way with bumper-to-bumper. The Mercer ‘West’ project will turn that street into a freight corridor between I-5 and Elliott, as if there isn’t already too much traffic there. In the most nightmarish earthquake scenario, a collapse of the wrong segment of the Deep-bore could topple a downtown skycraper, absolutely too great a risk.

Moon’s story has a lot of details that have not been reported elsewhere. It was very informative.

Even with a tunnel, there are still going to be some very challenging issues about access to downtown. There has been very little discussion about just what bus enhancements are actually going to help reduce congestion and travel time, or what routes the buses will taken when they exit from 99 before going into the tunnel at either the north or south ends.

Moon’s story has a lot of details that have not been reported elsewhere. It was very informative.

Even with a tunnel, there are still going to be some very challenging issues about access to downtown. There has been very little discussion about just what bus enhancements are actually going to help reduce congestion and travel time, or what routes the buses will taken when they exit from 99 before going into the tunnel at either the north or south ends.

@17 Except for the important distinction that NOBODY LIKED NICKELS. Truly, it baffles political folks from out of state at the level of ire Seattle had for the guy. His approvals were in the 30s. On the other hand, how many people do you know who have a litany of specific reasons for why they hate Patty Murray, if any at all?

@17 Except for the important distinction that NOBODY LIKED NICKELS. Truly, it baffles political folks from out of state at the level of ire Seattle had for the guy. His approvals were in the 30s. On the other hand, how many people do you know who have a litany of specific reasons for why they hate Patty Murray, if any at all?

also @17 -

We’re talking about a Statewide elected official. Seattle politics are quirky at best, and in the primary, it was all about three progressives, and in the general, two progressives.

The US Senate race will be, ultimately, between a conservative and a progressive. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

also @17 -

We’re talking about a Statewide elected official. Seattle politics are quirky at best, and in the primary, it was all about three progressives, and in the general, two progressives.

The US Senate race will be, ultimately, between a conservative and a progressive. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

@17
Sen. Murray is well liked statewide and she has a remarkable ability to connect with people when she’s out and about. Add to that a list of specific things she can point to that she’s done for nearly every community in the state. Plus she’s willing to define her opponents before they define her.

@17
Sen. Murray is well liked statewide and she has a remarkable ability to connect with people when she’s out and about. Add to that a list of specific things she can point to that she’s done for nearly every community in the state. Plus she’s willing to define her opponents before they define her.

@17: It’s a tougher task to write a check and make yourself a viable U.S. Senate candidate than to do the same in a race for Seattle mayor. Joe Mallahan’s $200,000 donation-to-self made him a contender in Seattle, but a challenger would need to pump more like $2 million to $3 million into their own campaign to get a similar effect. Maria Cantwell spent more like $10 million on her first, self-funded Senate campaign.

@ECB: Clint Didier was a good NFL tight end for a very good team (the mid-1980s Washington Redskins), but the term “NFL star” is a stretch.

@17: It’s a tougher task to write a check and make yourself a viable U.S. Senate candidate than to do the same in a race for Seattle mayor. Joe Mallahan’s $200,000 donation-to-self made him a contender in Seattle, but a challenger would need to pump more like $2 million to $3 million into their own campaign to get a similar effect. Maria Cantwell spent more like $10 million on her first, self-funded Senate campaign.

@ECB: Clint Didier was a good NFL tight end for a very good team (the mid-1980s Washington Redskins), but the term “NFL star” is a stretch.

Also at the State Senate level, Rodney Tom’s district consists largely of Bellevue,the five points and little chunk of Redmond and Kirkland. Sen Tom is from Medina.
Aside from that, what leads you to believe that a person unseen or unheard from to this point will give Sen Tom a stiff challenge? Tom took out a strong incumbent in Luke Esser in 2006 even though he was outspent. This time he will out spend his opponent and have the benefit of running in a district that has moved increasingly dem/progressive.

Also at the State Senate level, Rodney Tom’s district consists largely of Bellevue,the five points and little chunk of Redmond and Kirkland. Sen Tom is from Medina.
Aside from that, what leads you to believe that a person unseen or unheard from to this point will give Sen Tom a stiff challenge? Tom took out a strong incumbent in Luke Esser in 2006 even though he was outspent. This time he will out spend his opponent and have the benefit of running in a district that has moved increasingly dem/progressive.

@11, McGinn promised to support the will of the City Council, as long as Seattle was protected from cost overruns.

So far, legislators keep going out of their way to remind us that they meant it when they said they’re not going to pick up the tab.

I’d say this post is perfectly logical. McGinn is going to sit back and let the tunnel kill itself.

@11, McGinn promised to support the will of the City Council, as long as Seattle was protected from cost overruns.

So far, legislators keep going out of their way to remind us that they meant it when they said they’re not going to pick up the tab.

I’d say this post is perfectly logical. McGinn is going to sit back and let the tunnel kill itself.

[i]Wells says:

Seattle transportation planning ‘experts’ are either incompetent, corrupt or both and their ‘expertice’ must be questioned rather than awarded our trust.

Cary Moon presents a progressive transportation and land-use planning philosophy that challenges the status quo. The principles she espouses however are perfectly aligned with the ‘New School’ planning philosophy known as New Urbanism that is practiced by thousands of professional ‘experts’.

The Deep-bore tunnel is horrendous engineering. It will flood the new Alaskan Way with bumper-to-bumper. The Mercer ‘West’ project will turn that street into a freight corridor between I-5 and Elliott, as if there isn’t already too much traffic there. In the most nightmarish earthquake scenario, a collapse of the wrong segment of the Deep-bore could topple a downtown skycraper, absolutely too great a risk.[/i]

Says Art Lewellen from his low income subsidized Portland apartment

[i]Wells says:

Seattle transportation planning ‘experts’ are either incompetent, corrupt or both and their ‘expertice’ must be questioned rather than awarded our trust.

Cary Moon presents a progressive transportation and land-use planning philosophy that challenges the status quo. The principles she espouses however are perfectly aligned with the ‘New School’ planning philosophy known as New Urbanism that is practiced by thousands of professional ‘experts’.

The Deep-bore tunnel is horrendous engineering. It will flood the new Alaskan Way with bumper-to-bumper. The Mercer ‘West’ project will turn that street into a freight corridor between I-5 and Elliott, as if there isn’t already too much traffic there. In the most nightmarish earthquake scenario, a collapse of the wrong segment of the Deep-bore could topple a downtown skycraper, absolutely too great a risk.[/i]

Says Art Lewellen from his low income subsidized Portland apartment

Frank Chopp for the win – a retrofit due to the fiscal chaos.

No money from Seattle.

The “vision thing” it turns out is expensive. And a political swamp.

(And we will all cheer as total topic fatigue is here, except for the emotionally/$$$ invested. Just DO it.)

Frank Chopp for the win – a retrofit due to the fiscal chaos.

No money from Seattle.

The “vision thing” it turns out is expensive. And a political swamp.

(And we will all cheer as total topic fatigue is here, except for the emotionally/$$$ invested. Just DO it.)

Whatever we decide to call Cary Moon, far more important is that we nip in the bud the kneejerk identifier that Clint Didier was an “NFL star”. As someone who grew up watching him platoon at tight end for the Skins with Rick Warren for a couple years at the peak of his career, the proper identifier is “former NFL journeyman.” Please update the Publicola style sheet.

Whatever we decide to call Cary Moon, far more important is that we nip in the bud the kneejerk identifier that Clint Didier was an “NFL star”. As someone who grew up watching him platoon at tight end for the Skins with Rick Warren for a couple years at the peak of his career, the proper identifier is “former NFL journeyman.” Please update the Publicola style sheet.

@ 11

With the economy in such bad shape and the need for Seattle to ask city workers to take unpaid days off and close libraries for a week (as well as the state itself seeing so much budgeting woos), there was never going to be enough money to build an appropriately safe, functioning tunnel that came in on time and on budget.

McGinn is right (and politically smart)…sit back and see the plans for the tunnel collapse under its own weight.

@ 11

With the economy in such bad shape and the need for Seattle to ask city workers to take unpaid days off and close libraries for a week (as well as the state itself seeing so much budgeting woos), there was never going to be enough money to build an appropriately safe, functioning tunnel that came in on time and on budget.

McGinn is right (and politically smart)…sit back and see the plans for the tunnel collapse under its own weight.