Democrats vs. Democrats Pt. 2: Eric Liu Serious About Challenging State Sen. Adam Kline

Man, is anyone else really digging this whole top two primary thing now? I just hope someone credible gets in the race against Chopp, as well.

Man, is anyone else really digging this whole top two primary thing now? I just hope someone credible gets in the race against Chopp, as well.

@1: It’s a partisan position, so the Top Two primary doesn’t apply.

@1: It’s a partisan position, so the Top Two primary doesn’t apply.

Definitely digging it, Cook! It’s exciting to see someone with Liu’s brilliance and dedication to Washington returning to government. This guy will electrify the senate. Kline should just step down, retire honorably, and accept our thanks for his years of service. He hit his ceiling long ago.

No, not “digging” the top two in the slightest. In LDs like the 37th and 46th, why should the Democratic challenger have to defeat the incumbent twice?

No, not “digging” the top two in the slightest. In LDs like the 37th and 46th, why should the Democratic challenger have to defeat the incumbent twice?

I don’t know Liu and I’m sure he’s just as dedicated and brilliant as Amos said. However, pairing Kline with Jacobsen is unfair. The only similarity between Kline and Jacobsen is age. The latter is now just plain weird and has been for some time; Kline’s a hard-working bright guy. 65 isn’t old, and it seems that “new blood” is just a wimpy way of saying “too old.” That’s blatantly ageist. A generational shift in a district doesn’t mean you should pick legislators who fit the average age of the district. Stuff the Legislature with new blood and see what you get: a lot of people stumbling around who don’t know what to do or who to go to. If that’s what you want, then that’s what you get.

I don’t know Liu and I’m sure he’s just as dedicated and brilliant as Amos said. However, pairing Kline with Jacobsen is unfair. The only similarity between Kline and Jacobsen is age. The latter is now just plain weird and has been for some time; Kline’s a hard-working bright guy. 65 isn’t old, and it seems that “new blood” is just a wimpy way of saying “too old.” That’s blatantly ageist. A generational shift in a district doesn’t mean you should pick legislators who fit the average age of the district. Stuff the Legislature with new blood and see what you get: a lot of people stumbling around who don’t know what to do or who to go to. If that’s what you want, then that’s what you get.

@4,
Sarah68,

In fairness to Liu, I think by “new blood” he meant the demographics of the 37th have changed since 1997: More young families etc. And I think he feels he represents that demo better.

Nor do I think he meant Kline is old. I think he meant Kline has been in office for a long time.

That was my sense. I asked him directly about any specific issues with Kline. He avoided talking about Kline.

@4,
Sarah68,

In fairness to Liu, I think by “new blood” he meant the demographics of the 37th have changed since 1997: More young families etc. And I think he feels he represents that demo better.

Nor do I think he meant Kline is old. I think he meant Kline has been in office for a long time.

That was my sense. I asked him directly about any specific issues with Kline. He avoided talking about Kline.

I don’t see what the connection is between “more young families” and “new blood” is, or why we’re now thinking it’s kosher to propose that one person can represent a certain demographic better than another person. How would he represent that demo better? Aren’t our representatives supposed to represent their whole constituency, not specialize in one particular constituency? My feeling–a strong feeling, not a factual conclusion–is that this is a slippery slope.

I don’t see what the connection is between “more young families” and “new blood” is, or why we’re now thinking it’s kosher to propose that one person can represent a certain demographic better than another person. How would he represent that demo better? Aren’t our representatives supposed to represent their whole constituency, not specialize in one particular constituency? My feeling–a strong feeling, not a factual conclusion–is that this is a slippery slope.

Good points. I think his message to me was: The district has changed since Kline was first elected and isn’t in sync with the a cultural shift that, yes, may reflect more young people. But I’m going too far here. I suspect we’ll hear more about what he meant “pretty soon.”

Good points. I think his message to me was: The district has changed since Kline was first elected and isn’t in sync with the a cultural shift that, yes, may reflect more young people. But I’m going too far here. I suspect we’ll hear more about what he meant “pretty soon.”

Its great to see that someone is considering running against Sen. Adam Kline. In the six years he has been in office, Kline has increasing become out of touch with the needs of his ditrict. His support for Transit Oriented Development (HB1490) and going against his own district in the last session damaged him ad left hm vulnerable. Perhaps the top two system is the best thing that could happen to predominantly Dem districts – incumbents can actually get some viable challengers making elections competetive races not coronations!

Its great to see that someone is considering running against Sen. Adam Kline. In the six years he has been in office, Kline has increasing become out of touch with the needs of his ditrict. His support for Transit Oriented Development (HB1490) and going against his own district in the last session damaged him ad left hm vulnerable. Perhaps the top two system is the best thing that could happen to predominantly Dem districts – incumbents can actually get some viable challengers making elections competetive races not coronations!

@4: I’ve worked with both Kline and Jacobsen and your characterization is way off. Jacobsen is goofy (as you point out) and lazy, but a genuinely sweet and caring man. Kline, on the other hand, is just as lazy but is also creepy, pretentious and generally mean spirited. So you are correct that the pairing is unfair – it’s unfair to Jacobsen.

@4: I’ve worked with both Kline and Jacobsen and your characterization is way off. Jacobsen is goofy (as you point out) and lazy, but a genuinely sweet and caring man. Kline, on the other hand, is just as lazy but is also creepy, pretentious and generally mean spirited. So you are correct that the pairing is unfair – it’s unfair to Jacobsen.

Lui is great and he has written other books as well, really great guy. Very sharp.

Lui is great and he has written other books as well, really great guy. Very sharp.

Ken Jacobsen chairs Natural Resources Ocean & Recreation. Since that’s not a concern of mine, I don’t call on him as much, but I’ve no reason to think he’s not effective in those areas. Maybe to you, birders are “weird.” I could have done without the “dogs in pubs” bill, but so what? Jacobsen is available to constituents and a good listener. He would be the first to tell you the 46th has changed since he was first elected several decades ago. He carries the history of the Senate.

I shudder to think what the Senate Judiciary Committee would be without Adam Kline. He is a proto-progressive, attends many community meetings and, I think, truly represents the progressive agenda in criminal justice. He is effective because he works incrementally. Until we repeal the death penalty and Three Strikes, I hope the 36th keeps electing him. (Any to anyone who thinks 65 is old: someday you’ll be sorry!)

Ken Jacobsen chairs Natural Resources Ocean & Recreation. Since that’s not a concern of mine, I don’t call on him as much, but I’ve no reason to think he’s not effective in those areas. Maybe to you, birders are “weird.” I could have done without the “dogs in pubs” bill, but so what? Jacobsen is available to constituents and a good listener. He would be the first to tell you the 46th has changed since he was first elected several decades ago. He carries the history of the Senate.

I shudder to think what the Senate Judiciary Committee would be without Adam Kline. He is a proto-progressive, attends many community meetings and, I think, truly represents the progressive agenda in criminal justice. He is effective because he works incrementally. Until we repeal the death penalty and Three Strikes, I hope the 36th keeps electing him. (Any to anyone who thinks 65 is old: someday you’ll be sorry!)

I had no idea Jacobsen was a birder. Why would that factor into anyone’s opinion? Maybe we’re overthinking legislators’ personal characteristics — age, avocations, etc. When I said weird, I meant behavior as a legislator. That’s all I care about.

I had no idea Jacobsen was a birder. Why would that factor into anyone’s opinion? Maybe we’re overthinking legislators’ personal characteristics — age, avocations, etc. When I said weird, I meant behavior as a legislator. That’s all I care about.

@4/6 Young people are disproportionately underrepresented in the WA state legislature and electing Mr Lui would be a step to correct that (average age of a Washingtonian: 37. average age of a legislator: 65). Preferring a younger politician for a younger district isn’t agist just like preferring an african american politician for an african american district isn’t racist. Its democratic.

I do, however, find your assumption that electing young people to office would “get” you a bunch of leaders “stumbling around who don’t know what to do or where to go” fairly generalizing and unfair. Maybe we should all watch the ageism a little bit more.

And anyways, Mr Lui worked in the White House and is a successful business executive (I learned that from reading the article we are commenting on) and, at the “middle age” of 41, I would assume he has plenty of experience that might give him ideas.

@4/6 Young people are disproportionately underrepresented in the WA state legislature and electing Mr Lui would be a step to correct that (average age of a Washingtonian: 37. average age of a legislator: 65). Preferring a younger politician for a younger district isn’t agist just like preferring an african american politician for an african american district isn’t racist. Its democratic.

I do, however, find your assumption that electing young people to office would “get” you a bunch of leaders “stumbling around who don’t know what to do or where to go” fairly generalizing and unfair. Maybe we should all watch the ageism a little bit more.

And anyways, Mr Lui worked in the White House and is a successful business executive (I learned that from reading the article we are commenting on) and, at the “middle age” of 41, I would assume he has plenty of experience that might give him ideas.

Eric Liu is a bright, caring, and experienced person and is a great candidate. Adam Kline is a long time fighter for good, but is not without his flaws. More challengers for more of our relatively ineffective Seattle delegation is a good thing. The 37th deserves to have this debate.

Eric Liu is a bright, caring, and experienced person and is a great candidate. Adam Kline is a long time fighter for good, but is not without his flaws. More challengers for more of our relatively ineffective Seattle delegation is a good thing. The 37th deserves to have this debate.

Love the competition! Two great choices for the district. One point of contention though: 41 isn’t young – it’s middle-age. And 65 isn’t old – it’s the tail end of middle-age.

It’s time for some middle-age blood!

Love the competition! Two great choices for the district. One point of contention though: 41 isn’t young – it’s middle-age. And 65 isn’t old – it’s the tail end of middle-age.

It’s time for some middle-age blood!

K9: Electing young people wouldn’t get stumbling around; electing people who don’t know anything about Olympia would. Those people could be either young, middle-aged (which indeed extends to 65!) or old.

I’m just arguing that “new blood” doesn’t mean we’ll get more effective representation. Neither age nor years of representation should be the determinnant; only effectiveness.

The analogy between electing young people to represent a demographically young district and electing African-Americans to represent a traditionally African-American district really doesn’t wash. African-Americans have had a quite a few more difficult things to contend with than young people have.

K9: Electing young people wouldn’t get stumbling around; electing people who don’t know anything about Olympia would. Those people could be either young, middle-aged (which indeed extends to 65!) or old.

I’m just arguing that “new blood” doesn’t mean we’ll get more effective representation. Neither age nor years of representation should be the determinnant; only effectiveness.

The analogy between electing young people to represent a demographically young district and electing African-Americans to represent a traditionally African-American district really doesn’t wash. African-Americans have had a quite a few more difficult things to contend with than young people have.

Not contesting that last point, just trying to say there is merit to demographic considerations. Should have prolly picked a diff analogy…

And agreed that effectiveness can come from someone of any age demographic, just trying to remind everyone that includes young people and adding a little more of them to the legislature is a good thing : )

Not contesting that last point, just trying to say there is merit to demographic considerations. Should have prolly picked a diff analogy…

And agreed that effectiveness can come from someone of any age demographic, just trying to remind everyone that includes young people and adding a little more of them to the legislature is a good thing : )

The fact that Eric Liu is considering running for office – any office – is the best news I’ve heard in a long time. He’s a brilliant, dedicated, honest person with high integrity.

The fact that Eric Liu is considering running for office – any office – is the best news I’ve heard in a long time. He’s a brilliant, dedicated, honest person with high integrity.

We should be thrilled any time someone with brains and integrity wants to enter public service. They have plenty of other options. The fact that they are willing to subject themselves to lost privacy and personal insult is something to be applauded.

At the risk of being boo’d off this thread, I think the R & D party bosses do us a disservice by taking sides within party races (Dwight likes THIS Democrat, he doesn’t like THAT one). The focus on numbers in seats above all else really dumbs down the system.

I’m a long time political junkie yet I was still surprised when watching the national health care debate to see how bought and paid for the Senate is. The need for political money naturally takes a toll over time. Let new voices enter these races and let’s hope the best ideas prevail.

We should be thrilled any time someone with brains and integrity wants to enter public service. They have plenty of other options. The fact that they are willing to subject themselves to lost privacy and personal insult is something to be applauded.

At the risk of being boo’d off this thread, I think the R & D party bosses do us a disservice by taking sides within party races (Dwight likes THIS Democrat, he doesn’t like THAT one). The focus on numbers in seats above all else really dumbs down the system.

I’m a long time political junkie yet I was still surprised when watching the national health care debate to see how bought and paid for the Senate is. The need for political money naturally takes a toll over time. Let new voices enter these races and let’s hope the best ideas prevail.

Have known Eric a long time and he is a very bright, forward thinking person with lots of integrity and strong progressive principles. But he’s also pragmatic and a consensus builder, so might have a better shot at actually moving progressive legislation.

Plus – please, it is time to have more people of color in the legislature, esp. representing as ethnically diverse a district as the 37th.

Have known Eric a long time and he is a very bright, forward thinking person with lots of integrity and strong progressive principles. But he’s also pragmatic and a consensus builder, so might have a better shot at actually moving progressive legislation.

Plus – please, it is time to have more people of color in the legislature, esp. representing as ethnically diverse a district as the 37th.

Josh, are you planning on interviewing Kline? I’ve met with him recently, and I’ve seen him chair the Senate Judiciary Committee, actively pushing an agenda of civil liberties, replacing incarceration with drug treatment, advocating for women and minorities. He has passed a lot of good progressive legislation, and has put a stop to a lot of bad legislation promoted by less progressive legislators. In other legislative areas, he’s a strong and effective progressive voice and vote. And we need him to continue serving on the Ways and Means Committee, advocating for more funding for education, human services, healthcare, etc. AND he is one of the strongest and most consistent proponents in Olympia for progressive tax reform. The guy does not need to be replaced. Why should we trade an experienced progressive committee chair for a newbie? I think that’s the question we should be asking.

And remember that post 9-11 push for wiretapping, and Gov. Locke’s proposed anti-terrorism bill? Kline is the single reason we don’t have either of them. He killed both of them in the Senate, even when he was double-teamed by Locke and Gregoire (she was Attorney-General at the time). I respected Kline a lot before that event, but that’s when he really won my admiration.

I hope Liu decides to apply his considerable skills elsewhere. I have a lot of respect for Liu – he’s a good progressive, and he may well make good lawmaker — eventually. Change isn’t always a positive, especially if it means replacing someone who is experienced, effective, and has the type of seniority that leverages his ability to do good work. Kline wins my vote of confidence.

Josh, are you planning on interviewing Kline? I’ve met with him recently, and I’ve seen him chair the Senate Judiciary Committee, actively pushing an agenda of civil liberties, replacing incarceration with drug treatment, advocating for women and minorities. He has passed a lot of good progressive legislation, and has put a stop to a lot of bad legislation promoted by less progressive legislators. In other legislative areas, he’s a strong and effective progressive voice and vote. And we need him to continue serving on the Ways and Means Committee, advocating for more funding for education, human services, healthcare, etc. AND he is one of the strongest and most consistent proponents in Olympia for progressive tax reform. The guy does not need to be replaced. Why should we trade an experienced progressive committee chair for a newbie? I think that’s the question we should be asking.

And remember that post 9-11 push for wiretapping, and Gov. Locke’s proposed anti-terrorism bill? Kline is the single reason we don’t have either of them. He killed both of them in the Senate, even when he was double-teamed by Locke and Gregoire (she was Attorney-General at the time). I respected Kline a lot before that event, but that’s when he really won my admiration.

I hope Liu decides to apply his considerable skills elsewhere. I have a lot of respect for Liu – he’s a good progressive, and he may well make good lawmaker — eventually. Change isn’t always a positive, especially if it means replacing someone who is experienced, effective, and has the type of seniority that leverages his ability to do good work. Kline wins my vote of confidence.

@21 I think it would be interesting to have Publiccola interview Kline. As a newbie to the Seattle Area, and as a person in the 37ld, I’d like to know more about him as my senator in Olympia.

I have heard Liu speak and have always walked away with a sense of purpose and renewed hope for what we, as citizens, can do in our community. Aside from writing book, this guy has an extremely respectable track record as an engaged citizen and former WH adviser.

Like @14 said, the 37ld deserves to have this conversation. We’re posing experienced, consistent leader like Kline with a fresh, experienced, and most importantly energetic Liu.

Let’s let our district decide–besides it’s time to have someone really shake it up. We need to have the rest of our community involved, and that doesn’t just mean old or just mean young– it means everyone!

@21 I think it would be interesting to have Publiccola interview Kline. As a newbie to the Seattle Area, and as a person in the 37ld, I’d like to know more about him as my senator in Olympia.

I have heard Liu speak and have always walked away with a sense of purpose and renewed hope for what we, as citizens, can do in our community. Aside from writing book, this guy has an extremely respectable track record as an engaged citizen and former WH adviser.

Like @14 said, the 37ld deserves to have this conversation. We’re posing experienced, consistent leader like Kline with a fresh, experienced, and most importantly energetic Liu.

Let’s let our district decide–besides it’s time to have someone really shake it up. We need to have the rest of our community involved, and that doesn’t just mean old or just mean young– it means everyone!

@22, I definitely agree with what you wrote about community involvement — we need to work with each other to create and be fully involved in a vibrant participatory democracy. I’m just concerned that a competition between these two candidates would use up a lot of community resources (time, money, creative energy, etc). We desperately need those resources for community organizing efforts to deal with poverty, homelessness, and the inadequate public funding for education and pretty everything that progressives hold dear, etc.

Couldn’t some of the money that would be used for this race be better spent to support progressives who are opposing candidates in other districts? Do we really need to devote our time and resources to a competition between two progressives who may well have a fairly similar voice and vote in the legislature?

@22, I definitely agree with what you wrote about community involvement — we need to work with each other to create and be fully involved in a vibrant participatory democracy. I’m just concerned that a competition between these two candidates would use up a lot of community resources (time, money, creative energy, etc). We desperately need those resources for community organizing efforts to deal with poverty, homelessness, and the inadequate public funding for education and pretty everything that progressives hold dear, etc.

Couldn’t some of the money that would be used for this race be better spent to support progressives who are opposing candidates in other districts? Do we really need to devote our time and resources to a competition between two progressives who may well have a fairly similar voice and vote in the legislature?

This from a blog post at capitolstuff.com

A law requiring law enforcement personnel to be honest and truthful!

I normally don’t go in for the listings or news stories about the crazy ideas that well intended legislators have drafted and introduce as proposed legislation. But Senator Kline, D-Seattle, 37th district, (where else?), has introduced SB 5960. The bill’s short title is “an act requiring law enforcement officers to be honest and truthful.” Honest, that’s the title. And, when one reads the bill, it…yes…requires law enforcement officers to be honest and truthful. I’m being truthful here!

Now, the whole thing is tied up in some esoteric, state supreme court ruling, and an arbitrator’s ruling involving the law enforcement officer’s guild. (“guild” is code for labor union) But, give me a break. Do we need a bill to require law enforcement officers to be honest and truthful? Why not add trustworthy, loyal, obedient, cheerful…you know, all the boy scout stuff?

With former Clinton speechwriter and RealWorks executive ready to run against Kline, everybody better get honest. As in, the emperor has no clothes honest. BTW, from the reports in Publicola about Eric Liu’s election hopes, it seems a generational card is being played. Is Kline too old for the district? What a hoot, in the open, diverse and tolerant 37th Kline is too old!!! … anyway…honest! I’m just trying to be truthful here.

I was hoping there could be an amendment to add legislators, investment bankers, and stock brokers to the bill, but Senator Kline was honest enough to truthfully title the bill “an act relating to law enforcement officer conduct.” So the title is too tight to add others who should also be honest and truthful. Honest!

Now, is being honest different than being truthful? I mean I guess you could be truthful about not being honest. Or, maybe you could be honest by telling people you forgot to be truthful. But, honestly, this whole thing gets confusing for me. To be truthful with you, I think we should really think twice about requiring people to be honest and truthful.

I’m going to this hearing! Honest!

This from a blog post at capitolstuff.com

A law requiring law enforcement personnel to be honest and truthful!

I normally don’t go in for the listings or news stories about the crazy ideas that well intended legislators have drafted and introduce as proposed legislation. But Senator Kline, D-Seattle, 37th district, (where else?), has introduced SB 5960. The bill’s short title is “an act requiring law enforcement officers to be honest and truthful.” Honest, that’s the title. And, when one reads the bill, it…yes…requires law enforcement officers to be honest and truthful. I’m being truthful here!

Now, the whole thing is tied up in some esoteric, state supreme court ruling, and an arbitrator’s ruling involving the law enforcement officer’s guild. (“guild” is code for labor union) But, give me a break. Do we need a bill to require law enforcement officers to be honest and truthful? Why not add trustworthy, loyal, obedient, cheerful…you know, all the boy scout stuff?

With former Clinton speechwriter and RealWorks executive ready to run against Kline, everybody better get honest. As in, the emperor has no clothes honest. BTW, from the reports in Publicola about Eric Liu’s election hopes, it seems a generational card is being played. Is Kline too old for the district? What a hoot, in the open, diverse and tolerant 37th Kline is too old!!! … anyway…honest! I’m just trying to be truthful here.

I was hoping there could be an amendment to add legislators, investment bankers, and stock brokers to the bill, but Senator Kline was honest enough to truthfully title the bill “an act relating to law enforcement officer conduct.” So the title is too tight to add others who should also be honest and truthful. Honest!

Now, is being honest different than being truthful? I mean I guess you could be truthful about not being honest. Or, maybe you could be honest by telling people you forgot to be truthful. But, honestly, this whole thing gets confusing for me. To be truthful with you, I think we should really think twice about requiring people to be honest and truthful.

I’m going to this hearing! Honest!

Roots;
Thanks for bringing up SB5960, I hadn’t heard about that. In my house we’re spinning over Kline’s anti-assault weapons bill,SB6936, which might be fine in theory, but is written in a way that confuses every and doesn’t probably make any of us safer. So I was looking for some reasons why my son might like to use his newly minted voter’s card and get behind one candidate here or another.

If Liu is fresh and will need time to get up to speed in Olympia (seriously, we worked on Clinton’s campaign and we think he can’t handle Olympia?) at least he won’t be wasting him time writing pointless legislation about police officers.

Roots;
Thanks for bringing up SB5960, I hadn’t heard about that. In my house we’re spinning over Kline’s anti-assault weapons bill,SB6936, which might be fine in theory, but is written in a way that confuses every and doesn’t probably make any of us safer. So I was looking for some reasons why my son might like to use his newly minted voter’s card and get behind one candidate here or another.

If Liu is fresh and will need time to get up to speed in Olympia (seriously, we worked on Clinton’s campaign and we think he can’t handle Olympia?) at least he won’t be wasting him time writing pointless legislation about police officers.

Okay, I decided to fact check this business about SB5690, and found the original article is incorrect. The bill is SB6590.

http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/ViewRoot.asp?Action=Html&Item=0&X=129194636&p=1

Read it, it’s interesting. This is what I hate about law. Is Kline an idiot for writing this bill, or are we idiots for having a system that is so complex and poorly managed that a bill like this needs to be written to prevent someone making the argument that they couldn’t be expected to be truthful if no one ever defined for them what truthful meant.

Is there an emoticon for ‘my eyes are rolling up into my head’?

Okay, I decided to fact check this business about SB5690, and found the original article is incorrect. The bill is SB6590.

http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/ViewRoot.asp?Action=Html&Item=0&X=129194636&p=1

Read it, it’s interesting. This is what I hate about law. Is Kline an idiot for writing this bill, or are we idiots for having a system that is so complex and poorly managed that a bill like this needs to be written to prevent someone making the argument that they couldn’t be expected to be truthful if no one ever defined for them what truthful meant.

Is there an emoticon for ‘my eyes are rolling up into my head’?

Sen. Kline is arrogant and out of touch with much of his district. If Lui doesn’t run someone must to get rid of Kline who has grown too accustomed to power and spends much of his hard earned seniority on narrow issues of interest to his family members but of little interest to the working families in the 37th District.

Sen. Kline is arrogant and out of touch with much of his district. If Lui doesn’t run someone must to get rid of Kline who has grown too accustomed to power and spends much of his hard earned seniority on narrow issues of interest to his family members but of little interest to the working families in the 37th District.

Definitely digging it, Cook! It's exciting to see someone with Liu's brilliance and dedication to Washington returning to government. This guy will electrify the senate. Kline should just step down, retire honorably, and accept our thanks for his years of service. He hit his ceiling long ago.