Viva La Cola!

Founded in January 2009, PubliCola is a blog about Seattle written by journalists who are dedicated to non-partisan, original daily reporting that prioritizes a balanced approach to news. Started by longtime local editor and award-winning reporter Josh Feit, PubliCola is the first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol.

PubliCola was off and running. In June 2009, PubliCola hired another award-winning journalist, super-sourced Seattle city hall reporter Erica C. Barnett.

People were afraid that blogging would change journalism. Instead, we believe journalism can change blogging. Twenty-first century journalism may look and feel different, and yes Erica isn't afraid to get cranky, but we're committed to making sure online news still delivers independent, reliable, even-keeled coverage. And most of all, we're committed to making sure the coverage sparks honest civic debate.

Bringing you cola for the people, PubliCola is named after Publius Valerius PubliCola, the alias for the authors of the Federalist Papers—the original bloggers.

The first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol and Seattle city hall, PubliCola has been called a “must-read” by the Seattle Post Intelligencer and a hot “New Media Mover and Shaker” by Seattle Magazine—which also cited our own Erica C. Barnett as the city's No. 1 news nerd.

Classic Cola: Documents Reveal Fix Was In for Deep-Bore Tunnel

Next month marks PubliCola’s one-year anniversary. Throughout December, we’ve been re-posting our favorite Cola articles from our first 12 months.

(Apologies to those who don’t like the reprints, but we’ve got thousands of new readers these days who haven’t seen some of our greatest hits. December, in fact, has been a record month for us, hitting more than 10,000 unique visitors one day this month.)

Yesterday, we republished the first set of original Sounders photos by PubliCola photographer Jack Hunter.

Today, we’re running a piece from October revealing that the state bent over backwards to make the downtown deep-bore tunnel look like the best option for replacing the Alaskan Way Viaduct.

Public records from the state Department of Transportation (WSDOT), available here, contain a number of disturbing revelations about the process that led WSDOT to move forward with the deep-bore tunnel on the downtown waterfront early this year.

Emails, internal memos, and other agency documents reveal that WSDOT appointed longtime advocates for the deep-bore tunnel as “experts” on tunnel costs; redistributed tunnel costs to make the price appear lower; and failed to study the surface/transit/I-5 alternative, subbing in a faux four-lane “surface” alternative that included none of the transit and surface-street improvements in the surface/transit/I-5 proposal.

The records come from a massive public-disclosure request filed by Seattle Citizens Against the Tunnel, which is suing the state over the tunnel project, arguing that WSDOT is illegally moving forward with the tunnel before completing a state-mandated environmental review.

Among the information revealed in the records released by WSDOT:

• The state Department of Transportation relied heavily on outside advice from the Cascadia Center, the transportation wing of the Discovery Institute, to come up with estimates of how much to include for risk and contingency in the budget for the tunnel. Cascadia has been pushing for the deep-bore tunnel for years; back in the summer of 2007, Cascadia director Bruce Agnew penned an editorial for the Puget Sound Business Journal outlining “our plan” to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct: A deep-bore tunnel. Not surprising, then, that in an email to WSDOT  staff, Agnew concluded: “Our belief is that the deep bored tunnel should proceed.”

Despite this blatant advocacy, WSDOT apparently considered Agnew and Cascadia sufficiently unbiased to serve as an expert adviser to its viaduct replacement team. In an email dated December 23, 2008, WSDOT Urban Corridors Deputy Director Ron Paananen asked viaduct project manager John White and consultant Amy Grotenfendt, “Has anyone heard back from Cascadia? We need their feedback to help in reconsideration of the risk and contingency numbers.”

In an email the following day, Agnew—echoing a Cascadia press release calling early cost estimates for the deep-bore tunnel  “inflated, inaccurate and more myth than reality—sent agency staff another email asserting that the tunnel cost estimate “appears to be significantly higher than any other tunnel project” built previously in the world and suggested that the agency should lower its cost estimates.

That same day, White noted in an email to WSDOT consultants and staff that Cascadia believed its numbers for “add-ons” to the tunnel project (a category that includes risk and cost escalation, $418 million and $166 million, respectively) were too high and suggested lowering the overall cost of the tunnel.

Finally, when state Rep. Geoff Simpson, a tunnel opponent, asked WSDOT “what level of independent review” WSDOT had done on its cost estimates, WSDOT responded, “Cascadia and other tunnel experts have been very active in reviewing the tunnel estimate work to date.”

Among those “other experts”: The global engineering firm Arup. Arup has frequently collaborated with Cascadia, and in 2009 completed a $35,000 report, paid for by Cascadia, that deep-bore tunnels are both feasible and affordable.

How influential were Cascadia and Arup in WSDOT’s decision to go forward with the tunnel and lower estimates of its cost? Paananen says Cascadia was just one of “a number of different experts,” and that “we didn’t weight their input more heavily than anyone.”

• Speaking of Arup, the firm was mentioned by name in an email from WSDOT’s White to Agnew and Cascadia Projects coordinator Renee Roline. In the email, which seeks Arup’s advice on costs, WSDOT’S White writes, “If a bored tunnel is to advance, there will be plenty of opportunity for Arup and others to further engage in the design process and potentially construction, but ahead of that we need to pull together the best tunnel thinking available related to thoughts on costs and construction options.”

Not quite a promise of a quid pro quo, but it certainly could be read to suggest that Arup should expect design and construction work from WSDOT in the future.  Paananen says the language in the email was “not unusual at all.

“We get lots of inquiries from engineering firms and contractors asking, what are the next pieces of work coming out and what opportunities will there be to bid.” However, that does not appear to be the context in which White made his comments.

• In that same December 23 email exchange, WSDOT urban corridors administrator Dave Dye notes that he has been “getting vibes from New York” that WSDOT’s tunnel cost estimates were “too conservative”—in other words, they included too many contingencies and were generally too high. (WSDOT has a number of  advisers in New York).

Paananen says the “New York” reference could have referred to “any number of folks,” adding, “We were all getting some of that pushback from tunneling experts that our tunnel estimate was high.” He says WSDOT felt confident lowering its estimate once it settled on a single deep-bore tunnel rather than two side-by-side deep-bore tunnels, which have more risks and are more expensive.

Dye then suggests that WSDOT reduce the potential cost range for the tunnel, “with the current estimate [becoming] the high end.” The effect of that change would be to make the overall cost of the tunnel lower. And it appears to contradict another email from Dye, in which he told a group of staffers and consultants that he believed $2.13 billion was “the most probable” estimate, adding, “I’m inclined to say  $2.13 billion is the right figure to build a finance plan around. … We should stick with the $2.13 billion figure.”

On January 6, two weeks later, WSDOT consultant Amy Grotenfendt (originally hired to do public relations and community outreach) wrote in an email, “I changed the cost of the bored tunnel to $1.9 billion since we were moving $100 million down the utilities line.” In other words, the state shifted $100 million to the city’s portion of the funding, allowing WSDOT to shave off that $100 million. Paananen says he thinks the state shifted more then $200 million of the utility relocation costs to the city, but that number doesn’t show up anywhere in the emails.

• In an email dated Jan. 2, 2009, WSDOT consultant Mike Rigsby suggested raising the costs estimates for utility relocation for all the non-bored-tunnel replacement alternatives (from $150 million each for the surface/transit and elevated options to $233 million and $210 million, respectively) and lowering the cost estimate for utility relocation for the bored tunnel, from $152 million to $100 million.

Rigsby does not explain why he suggests those changes, which have the effect of making the deep-bore tunnel look cheaper and the other alternatives more expensive.

And it’s unclear if the changes were made. Paananen says he doesn’t know if WSDOT changed its utility relocation cost estimates, but adds, “I’m not exactly sure where Mike was coming from.”

• The draft EIS makes clear that WSDOT did not bother to study any version of the surface/transit alternative, despite the fact that the Viaduct Stakeholders Group recommended further study of that alternative. Instead, it studied a faux “no build” option, in which the viaduct is simply torn down and nothing done to mitigate the impact of losing that corridor. (In contrast, surface/transit/I-5 includes adding a lane to I-5, improving surface streets downtown and in South Lake Union, and investing hundreds of millions in new transit). Not surprisingly, the analysis found that the “no build” option was not a feasible alternative, with slower travel times, lower transit ridership, and much more traffic on surface streets downtown.

• Although Gov. Christine Gregoire and WSDOT director Paula Hammond have explicitly redefined “capacity” to mean “ability to move people and goods,” not the number of cars a road can hold (a top priority of environmentalists), WSDOT planners refer repeatedly to car capacity as a measure of the quality of the viaduct replacement. In a memo dated December 29, 2008, White said a deep-bored tunnel would “maintain capacity for trips through downtown and provide room for growth in those vehicle trips expected by 2030.” Elsewhere in the documents, a consultant notes that the estimates assumed 10 percent growth in traffic between 2015 and 2030. And a draft environmental impact statement for the tunnel predicts that vehicle-hours traveled downtown will increase by nearly 17,000 a day in the next six years, that travel times will decrease or increase only slightly, and that vehicle miles traveled will increase about 12 percent.

• According to internal WSDOT memos, tunnel construction could have a devastating effect on Pioneer Square.  South of King Street, WSDOT’s consultants recommended building a cut-and-cover tunnel, despite “excessive and difficult utility relocations in 1st Ave., disruptions to traffic,” and threats to “structural underpinnings of adjacent buildings” (AKA the beams and underground walls that hold buildings up). Tunneling in Pioneer Square, in other words, is risky business, and could threaten sidewalks, streets, and buildings.

Paananen acknowledges that “we have to be very careful” in Pioneer Square because of ground conditions there, but says, “The whole deal with risk for us is, identify the risk, then mitigate it.”

• Emails from WSDOT staff make repeated references to saving money by shortening the timeline for construction from nine years  to 7.5. However, WSDOT’s current timeline calls for construction to begin in 2011 and end in 2015. Paanenen attributes the shortened schedule to two factors: the decision to dig one tunnel instead of two, and a switch to a design-build procurement process, in which a single team of firms will both design and build the tunnel.

• On the north end of the tunnel, WSDOT notes that building the deep-bore tunnel would dump an additional 35,000 vehicles in South Lake Union and Queen Anne (the total number of cars entering the tunnel on Western or existing at Battery Street). That’s a huge amount of additional traffic in a neighborhood that’s already saddled with the so-called “Mercer Mess.” In a February email to one of WSDOT’s consultants, Ivar’s CEO Bob Donegan called the traffic situation “a huge issue for the freight guys in Ballard and NW Seattle.”

• The draft environmental impact statement on the tunnel—the document that shows what environmental, traffic, and other impacts the tunnel will have in Seattle and the surrounding areas—contains a note making it clear that WSDOT and its consultants intended to keep the public document from the public. The note reads:

“We respectfully request that the public not be given access to this document because FHWA has determined that this preliminary document is an intergovernmental exchange that may be withheld under the Freedom of Information Act.” (Whoops.) “Premature release of this material to any segment of the public could give some sectors an unfair advantage and would have a chilling effect on intergovernmental coordination and the success of the cooperating agency concept.” Paananen says the agency routinely places that notice on preliminary draft documents, and only formally releases the final draft.




  • DeBT Tunnel?

    mcginn needs to have city finance team study and quantify all DBT overrun risks under various scenarios. Start by consdiering a 100% overrun and household that and tell us the annual tax hit. Then limit it to properties within half a mile of the DBT, and then print up little notices. Dear Condo owner in Lower Quenn Ann: your share of a 1005 cost overrun will be $19,000. Just thought you’d want to know. And btw good luck selling your condo now!”

    IOW scare the shit out of everyone, I mean, be transparent do the math and get all the finances on the table.

    And another little study by city attorney might help, too. Are bonds issued under a illegal law, illegal ab initio and thus anyone who buys them can’t count on getting paid….as in WPPSS litigation, when wall st. got screwed big time?

    Might be neato if the city attorney of the city supposedly guaranteeing cost overruns opined….it won’t.

    Even if he was all judicious and fair and said the issue “presents doubt”….this is fatal to bonding this project.

    Remember when there are overruns the contractor needs to be paid or else the tunnel is half finished. Wonder what the bond rating impact on the State would be if this project is half finished….resting as it does on a probably illegal finance scheme.

  • DeBT Tunnel?

    mcginn needs to have city finance team study and quantify all DBT overrun risks under various scenarios. Start by consdiering a 100% overrun and household that and tell us the annual tax hit. Then limit it to properties within half a mile of the DBT, and then print up little notices. Dear Condo owner in Lower Quenn Ann: your share of a 1005 cost overrun will be $19,000. Just thought you’d want to know. And btw good luck selling your condo now!”

    IOW scare the shit out of everyone, I mean, be transparent do the math and get all the finances on the table.

    And another little study by city attorney might help, too. Are bonds issued under a illegal law, illegal ab initio and thus anyone who buys them can’t count on getting paid….as in WPPSS litigation, when wall st. got screwed big time?

    Might be neato if the city attorney of the city supposedly guaranteeing cost overruns opined….it won’t.

    Even if he was all judicious and fair and said the issue “presents doubt”….this is fatal to bonding this project.

    Remember when there are overruns the contractor needs to be paid or else the tunnel is half finished. Wonder what the bond rating impact on the State would be if this project is half finished….resting as it does on a probably illegal finance scheme.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    http://publicola.net/?p=16697

    2 months later, it is still crap, classic crap.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    http://publicola.net/?p=16697

    2 months later, it is still crap, classic crap.

  • http://www.joeszilagyi.com/ Joe Szilagyi

    Could a large group of city property owners file a class action lawsuit of some sort of stop the city residents from being on the hook for the cost overruns?

  • http://www.joeszilagyi.com Joe Szilagyi

    Could a large group of city property owners file a class action lawsuit of some sort of stop the city residents from being on the hook for the cost overruns?

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    Btw, @1, the tunnel construction portion estimate is 900 million. There is 166 million in escallation, 400 million in tolling, and another 400 million in tolling.
    The short answer on the tunnel portion is 0.

    The sea wall, we are on the hook either way.
    City street improvements, in any plan, we are on the hook for, either way.

    The state is only oblgated to its highway replacement. Whatever else the city chooses to do beyond that is the city’s responsibility.
    Take McGinn’s surface option, except for the I-5 and actual boulevard, all of the rest of it Seattle is on the hook for, including cost overruns.

    If the state “saved” any money on its highway from the surface option then that saved money would go to other state roads outside of Seattle.
    There is no McGinn divertion of savings, it is not his to divert.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    Btw, @1, the tunnel construction portion estimate is 900 million. There is 166 million in escallation, 400 million in tolling, and another 400 million in tolling.
    The short answer on the tunnel portion is 0.

    The sea wall, we are on the hook either way.
    City street improvements, in any plan, we are on the hook for, either way.

    The state is only oblgated to its highway replacement. Whatever else the city chooses to do beyond that is the city’s responsibility.
    Take McGinn’s surface option, except for the I-5 and actual boulevard, all of the rest of it Seattle is on the hook for, including cost overruns.

    If the state “saved” any money on its highway from the surface option then that saved money would go to other state roads outside of Seattle.
    There is no McGinn divertion of savings, it is not his to divert.

  • beef

    still. classic cola is a lame piece to provide filler. we don;t need it.

  • beef

    still. classic cola is a lame piece to provide filler. we don;t need it.

  • Perfect Voter

    Still haven’t seen any credible scenario whereby the state can lawfully command that Seattle create an LID to assess area property owners to cover the state’s financial responsibility for overruns on a state highway project managed by the state DOT.

    As I’ve said before, the City is a third party in relationship to the state DOT and their tunnel contractor.

    Mandating City payment for cost overruns would relieve the state of its responsibility to prudently manage its tunnel contract. It’s asking, begging in fact, for trouble.

  • Perfect Voter

    Still haven’t seen any credible scenario whereby the state can lawfully command that Seattle create an LID to assess area property owners to cover the state’s financial responsibility for overruns on a state highway project managed by the state DOT.

    As I’ve said before, the City is a third party in relationship to the state DOT and their tunnel contractor.

    Mandating City payment for cost overruns would relieve the state of its responsibility to prudently manage its tunnel contract. It’s asking, begging in fact, for trouble.

  • Mukasey is a Tyrant

    First time poster here.

    How do we KNOW the state believes the costs WSDOT will incur would exceed that $2.8 billion? Because the legislature put that amount in the new statute it enacted last April as a cap on the state’s responsibility, and then put benefited Seattle property owners on the hook for the balance.

    If WSDOT thought its lowball previous estimates were any good, then two things would have happened by now. The legislature wouldn’t have capped the state’s exposure to the costs at $2.8 billion, and WSDOT would have provided the legislature and the governor with the updated cost estimates already. RCW 47.01.450(3) requires that WSDOT “shall provide updated cost estimates for construction of the bored tunnel and also for the full Alaskan Way viaduct replacement project to the legislature and governor by January 1, 2010.”

    @6 – You and “Law Nerd” are full of the same BS.

    The LID isn’t one that the city would form, the Port of Seattle would form it. The Clibborn amendment was introduced at the behest of Frank Chopp. It is authorization from the legislature for a local government like the Port of Seattle to use LID revenues. If the Port of Seattle commissioners formed a LID by resolution under their existing authority (RCW 53.08.050) they could use the language of the Clibborn amendment to impose unlimited amounts of LID assessments on certain Seattle property owners to cover whatever costs WSDOT can manage to rack up in excess of $2.8 billion. No public vote would be needed (the commissioners could form the LID and start the assessments via a resolution).

    That is the financing scheme now in place. Frank Chopp wanted it that way. Unless that part of the statute is changed, all the property owners with higher values the assessor says are attributable to the tunnel and the Mercer St. improvements would be on the hook for any LID assessments the Port imposes to cover WSDOT’s costs in excess of $2.8 billion.

    Note to Josh and Erica. “Law Nerd” is an asshole – he lies. Supposedly he is a lawyer who works for a bid downtown firm. The FACT that he won’t let his name be used, or his firm’s name be used, means only one thing – he’s a liar. If he was doing something other than spreading BS he would use his name. When lawyers want to lie they say they’re lawyers and don’t use their names. Law Nerd’s column about the Clibborn amendment’s significance was designed to mislead – he went off on how the state couldn’t force a TAX on Seattle property owners only. He’s right on that point, but that point has absolutely nothing to do with the significance of the Clibborn amendment. That part of the new statute relates to the spending of LID revenues by a local government. You are being used as a platform for spreading disinformation by Law Nerd (and tools like @6, but you should expect garbage from meaningless screen names).

  • Mukasey is a Tyrant

    First time poster here.

    How do we KNOW the state believes the costs WSDOT will incur would exceed that $2.8 billion? Because the legislature put that amount in the new statute it enacted last April as a cap on the state’s responsibility, and then put benefited Seattle property owners on the hook for the balance.

    If WSDOT thought its lowball previous estimates were any good, then two things would have happened by now. The legislature wouldn’t have capped the state’s exposure to the costs at $2.8 billion, and WSDOT would have provided the legislature and the governor with the updated cost estimates already. RCW 47.01.450(3) requires that WSDOT “shall provide updated cost estimates for construction of the bored tunnel and also for the full Alaskan Way viaduct replacement project to the legislature and governor by January 1, 2010.”

    @6 – You and “Law Nerd” are full of the same BS.

    The LID isn’t one that the city would form, the Port of Seattle would form it. The Clibborn amendment was introduced at the behest of Frank Chopp. It is authorization from the legislature for a local government like the Port of Seattle to use LID revenues. If the Port of Seattle commissioners formed a LID by resolution under their existing authority (RCW 53.08.050) they could use the language of the Clibborn amendment to impose unlimited amounts of LID assessments on certain Seattle property owners to cover whatever costs WSDOT can manage to rack up in excess of $2.8 billion. No public vote would be needed (the commissioners could form the LID and start the assessments via a resolution).

    That is the financing scheme now in place. Frank Chopp wanted it that way. Unless that part of the statute is changed, all the property owners with higher values the assessor says are attributable to the tunnel and the Mercer St. improvements would be on the hook for any LID assessments the Port imposes to cover WSDOT’s costs in excess of $2.8 billion.

    Note to Josh and Erica. “Law Nerd” is an asshole – he lies. Supposedly he is a lawyer who works for a bid downtown firm. The FACT that he won’t let his name be used, or his firm’s name be used, means only one thing – he’s a liar. If he was doing something other than spreading BS he would use his name. When lawyers want to lie they say they’re lawyers and don’t use their names. Law Nerd’s column about the Clibborn amendment’s significance was designed to mislead – he went off on how the state couldn’t force a TAX on Seattle property owners only. He’s right on that point, but that point has absolutely nothing to do with the significance of the Clibborn amendment. That part of the new statute relates to the spending of LID revenues by a local government. You are being used as a platform for spreading disinformation by Law Nerd (and tools like @6, but you should expect garbage from meaningless screen names).

  • vlado

    Erica, conspiracy theories are fun, but if there ever was a “fix” it was against the tunnel. Every time it was brought up as an option during the stakeholder process, it was discredited and marginalized by the project team. It wasn’t until the very end of the process, when the surface option proved to be unworkable, and Frank Chopp brought his elevated behemoth to the table, was the bored tunnel accurately evaluated. You interpret that late process as a “fix”, but in reality it was part of an effort to (at long last) honestly look at the tunnel.

    As for the idea that engineering firms conspired to benefit themselves (directly and through Cascadia), I would suggest that you do a little research on the services that those firms offer. They offer services related to any and all of the options offered, not just tunneling. In fact, transportation funding spent anywhere, on any project in Washington requires engineering services. Since transportation funds can only be spent for that purpose, it is simple enough to conclude that the money will go to engineering firms regardless of what it is spent on.

  • vlado

    Erica, conspiracy theories are fun, but if there ever was a “fix” it was against the tunnel. Every time it was brought up as an option during the stakeholder process, it was discredited and marginalized by the project team. It wasn’t until the very end of the process, when the surface option proved to be unworkable, and Frank Chopp brought his elevated behemoth to the table, was the bored tunnel accurately evaluated. You interpret that late process as a “fix”, but in reality it was part of an effort to (at long last) honestly look at the tunnel.

    As for the idea that engineering firms conspired to benefit themselves (directly and through Cascadia), I would suggest that you do a little research on the services that those firms offer. They offer services related to any and all of the options offered, not just tunneling. In fact, transportation funding spent anywhere, on any project in Washington requires engineering services. Since transportation funds can only be spent for that purpose, it is simple enough to conclude that the money will go to engineering firms regardless of what it is spent on.

  • The Deep Debt Tunnel

    baker man:

    yoa’re recylcing a lie: “there will be no overruns.”

    LEt’s start with your numbers. Say, it’s a 900 million tunnel project. The way projects around here go, you have to assume a potential 100% overrun.

    And in this case it’s so underground, really, we have no idea. And we can’t even build a 17 foot tunnel for brightwater.

    Any how…

    take the billion dollars and divide it by the number of property owners YOU say will have to bear the overrun burden. Is it only 10,000 close in? Quite a large hit. Is it 250,000 all over Seattle? Dilutes the hit but you get one angry citizenry.

    Because we all just lost 25% and we don’t want any new assessment on our property whether it’s $3000 or $10,000 or $30,000 or $100,000. We. Do. Not. Want. It.

    There is NO group of property owners out there saying “please please let’s find out what the potential risk is because we’d love to be on the hook!!”

    show us your math.

    And btw…..the port ain’t gonna impose this kind of tax, we would march down to their lush waterfront boondoggle offices and physically toss them in the water.

  • The Deep Debt Tunnel

    baker man:

    yoa’re recylcing a lie: “there will be no overruns.”

    LEt’s start with your numbers. Say, it’s a 900 million tunnel project. The way projects around here go, you have to assume a potential 100% overrun.

    And in this case it’s so underground, really, we have no idea. And we can’t even build a 17 foot tunnel for brightwater.

    Any how…

    take the billion dollars and divide it by the number of property owners YOU say will have to bear the overrun burden. Is it only 10,000 close in? Quite a large hit. Is it 250,000 all over Seattle? Dilutes the hit but you get one angry citizenry.

    Because we all just lost 25% and we don’t want any new assessment on our property whether it’s $3000 or $10,000 or $30,000 or $100,000. We. Do. Not. Want. It.

    There is NO group of property owners out there saying “please please let’s find out what the potential risk is because we’d love to be on the hook!!”

    show us your math.

    And btw…..the port ain’t gonna impose this kind of tax, we would march down to their lush waterfront boondoggle offices and physically toss them in the water.

  • Sean

    the port ain’t gonna impose this kind of tax, we would march down to their lush waterfront boondoggle offices and physically toss them in the water.

    No, you wouldn’t. You’re a Seattlite. You would continue sitting in your chair, drinking herbal tea and whining into your keyboard, and then you’d pay whatever the King Co. Assessor (a former Port Commissioner) tells you to pay.

  • Sean

    the port ain’t gonna impose this kind of tax, we would march down to their lush waterfront boondoggle offices and physically toss them in the water.

    No, you wouldn’t. You’re a Seattlite. You would continue sitting in your chair, drinking herbal tea and whining into your keyboard, and then you’d pay whatever the King Co. Assessor (a former Port Commissioner) tells you to pay.

  • Wells

    It should be noted the Journal article that Bruce Agnew from Cascadia/Discovery Impstitute penned in October 2007, advocated Deep-bore “twin-tunnels”, each 35′-40′ in diameter. WSDOT studies on this idea concluded its cost was highest of all tunnel options. The single 52′ diameter Deep-bore tunnel idea did not emerge until December of 2008 with virtually no formal study. Studies now suggest it’s a terrible idea.

    The best tunnel option is WSDOT’s Scenario ‘G’ 4-lane Cut/cover. Handles traffic best, simplifies the Mercer project, keeps traffic off Alaskan Way and Mercer, creates the strongest seawall and most stable Alaskan Way surface, most construction jobs, costs less, gives Seattle a much deserved spanking by digging up the wah-wah waterfront even though the construction process is manageable. Pats Greggy’s head for “Tunnelite” idea. Happy new year.

  • Wells

    It should be noted the Journal article that Bruce Agnew from Cascadia/Discovery Impstitute penned in October 2007, advocated Deep-bore “twin-tunnels”, each 35′-40′ in diameter. WSDOT studies on this idea concluded its cost was highest of all tunnel options. The single 52′ diameter Deep-bore tunnel idea did not emerge until December of 2008 with virtually no formal study. Studies now suggest it’s a terrible idea.

    The best tunnel option is WSDOT’s Scenario ‘G’ 4-lane Cut/cover. Handles traffic best, simplifies the Mercer project, keeps traffic off Alaskan Way and Mercer, creates the strongest seawall and most stable Alaskan Way surface, most construction jobs, costs less, gives Seattle a much deserved spanking by digging up the wah-wah waterfront even though the construction process is manageable. Pats Greggy’s head for “Tunnelite” idea. Happy new year.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    @9, cost overruns have yet to be projected, or actualized.
    And this is what I had written, “tunnel construction portion estimate is 900 million”.

    Here is the estimate, and see the estimate for the “construction” item, 944 million dollars.
    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/TunnelCostEstimate.htm

    The “lie” is saying that if you double that number that Seattle area residents the benefit from the tunnel are on the hook.
    What I see way too many people doing (Publicola being one) is taking the allotted money for all of the parts of the tunnel, including the escallation, and engineering, and doubling everything for shock value, or they have not looked at a project estimate before.

    How many times would you pay for “Right of Way” costs? Do you really think that would double in cost too?
    How about the “Risk” item already built into the estimate, 418 million?
    That’s right, there is another 418 million of fluff, add that to the other 400 million the legislature put on the estimate, and 400 million more in tolling if the tunnel portion goes over 2.4 billion.

    The lie is doubling every number you see, and claiming that every man, woman, and child in Seattle could be on the hook for it, like Mike McGinn did, like the poster at the top of the thread did.

    Do I think the construction portion will go over estimate?
    Oh, ya, no doubt in my mind. Will they consume the 418 in Risk? Maybe.
    Will they consume another (400+400) 800 million in tolling?
    No, even if it did, it would still be within the state’s budget for the tunnel portion of the entire project.

    What everybody has to understand is that the other stuff beyond state’s obligation (tunnel or big street+closing I-5 downtown exits) is that Seattle is on the hook for it. No matter what, the sea wall, and its cost overruns are ours. If you want a million more hours of busses, that’s ours.

    The current 4.2 billion dollar project, minus the 2.4 billion dollar number used for the tunnel, is all on Seattle (and a 300 million dollar LID from the Port).
    The surface option, minus the big street, and I-5 improvements, Seattle is on the hook for.
    Dragging this out for 4 more years, and then doing the surface option may not be too much cheaper for the citizens of Seattle.

    Happy New Year, Mike McGinn.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    @9, cost overruns have yet to be projected, or actualized.
    And this is what I had written, “tunnel construction portion estimate is 900 million”.

    Here is the estimate, and see the estimate for the “construction” item, 944 million dollars.
    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/TunnelCostEstimate.htm

    The “lie” is saying that if you double that number that Seattle area residents the benefit from the tunnel are on the hook.
    What I see way too many people doing (Publicola being one) is taking the allotted money for all of the parts of the tunnel, including the escallation, and engineering, and doubling everything for shock value, or they have not looked at a project estimate before.

    How many times would you pay for “Right of Way” costs? Do you really think that would double in cost too?
    How about the “Risk” item already built into the estimate, 418 million?
    That’s right, there is another 418 million of fluff, add that to the other 400 million the legislature put on the estimate, and 400 million more in tolling if the tunnel portion goes over 2.4 billion.

    The lie is doubling every number you see, and claiming that every man, woman, and child in Seattle could be on the hook for it, like Mike McGinn did, like the poster at the top of the thread did.

    Do I think the construction portion will go over estimate?
    Oh, ya, no doubt in my mind. Will they consume the 418 in Risk? Maybe.
    Will they consume another (400+400) 800 million in tolling?
    No, even if it did, it would still be within the state’s budget for the tunnel portion of the entire project.

    What everybody has to understand is that the other stuff beyond state’s obligation (tunnel or big street+closing I-5 downtown exits) is that Seattle is on the hook for it. No matter what, the sea wall, and its cost overruns are ours. If you want a million more hours of busses, that’s ours.

    The current 4.2 billion dollar project, minus the 2.4 billion dollar number used for the tunnel, is all on Seattle (and a 300 million dollar LID from the Port).
    The surface option, minus the big street, and I-5 improvements, Seattle is on the hook for.
    Dragging this out for 4 more years, and then doing the surface option may not be too much cheaper for the citizens of Seattle.

    Happy New Year, Mike McGinn.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    Studies now suggest it’s a terrible idea.

    Link?

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mr-Baker/150568099583 Mr.Baker

    Studies now suggest it’s a terrible idea.

    Link?