ORCA Confusion, Long Lines at Downtown Transit Tunnel

It’s not confusing in the least. I bought not one, but two yesterday at the TVM in Pioneer Square station. E-purse, with $20 balances on both. Using it on the bus has been a breeze. I was a regular Metro user from 2001 to 2007, and ORCA has revolutionized bus travel for the better, at least in my experience.

I don’t understand what is so difficult or confusing about this. You walk up to the machine, push the ORCA button, select a monthly pass or e-purse, pay with a card or cash, collect your ORCA card and go on your way. It was a very simple transaction, and the TVMs were quite direct and helpful in laying out the transaction for me.

My advantage? Aside from keeping calm, maybe it was having been to Europe earlier this summer where these kinds of tap cards are common. Or maybe it was spending part of the 10 years living off and on in the SF Bay Area, using the much less user-friendly BART ticket terminals.

This isn’t a problem with ORCA, it is a problem with Seattle residents who are freaked out by change and cannot deal with it calmly, reasonably, or rationally. The ORCA pamphlet is likely as long as it is in order to try and explain everything in unnecessary detail to try and reassure these skittish types.

I try not to go in for the all too common Seattle-bashing one can sometimes find, but there’s nothing else to explain the patently absurd experience you wrote about in this post.

It’s not confusing in the least. I bought not one, but two yesterday at the TVM in Pioneer Square station. E-purse, with $20 balances on both. Using it on the bus has been a breeze. I was a regular Metro user from 2001 to 2007, and ORCA has revolutionized bus travel for the better, at least in my experience.

I don’t understand what is so difficult or confusing about this. You walk up to the machine, push the ORCA button, select a monthly pass or e-purse, pay with a card or cash, collect your ORCA card and go on your way. It was a very simple transaction, and the TVMs were quite direct and helpful in laying out the transaction for me.

My advantage? Aside from keeping calm, maybe it was having been to Europe earlier this summer where these kinds of tap cards are common. Or maybe it was spending part of the 10 years living off and on in the SF Bay Area, using the much less user-friendly BART ticket terminals.

This isn’t a problem with ORCA, it is a problem with Seattle residents who are freaked out by change and cannot deal with it calmly, reasonably, or rationally. The ORCA pamphlet is likely as long as it is in order to try and explain everything in unnecessary detail to try and reassure these skittish types.

I try not to go in for the all too common Seattle-bashing one can sometimes find, but there’s nothing else to explain the patently absurd experience you wrote about in this post.

Robert, your advantage is also that you are not mentally handicapped (except you sound a bit empathy-challenged). There is no way my daughter could have figured out the on-line forms, nor could she have figured out the explanations/instructions contained on either the ORCA website front page, or the METRO website front page on what to do with those forms. There are many more of you than her, but that doesn’t mean that she should be forgotten or confused unnecessarily by governmental agencies, or denigrated by those who find things quite easy.

Robert, your advantage is also that you are not mentally handicapped (except you sound a bit empathy-challenged). There is no way my daughter could have figured out the on-line forms, nor could she have figured out the explanations/instructions contained on either the ORCA website front page, or the METRO website front page on what to do with those forms. There are many more of you than her, but that doesn’t mean that she should be forgotten or confused unnecessarily by governmental agencies, or denigrated by those who find things quite easy.

You can’t fix stupid.

I’m not a frequent user of mass transit, but as soon as I heard about the changes – quite some time ago, definitely before mid-December – I ordered an ORCA card online. It was quick and easy to do via the website, and my card arrived in the mail within a few days.

Once I had my card, I returned to the website to activate it with funds. I’ve used it several times to travel between my place in Tacoma, downtown Seattle, and my girlfriend’s place on Queen Anne – transferring between three different systems, no problems.

This isn’t rocket science.

You can’t fix stupid.

I’m not a frequent user of mass transit, but as soon as I heard about the changes – quite some time ago, definitely before mid-December – I ordered an ORCA card online. It was quick and easy to do via the website, and my card arrived in the mail within a few days.

Once I had my card, I returned to the website to activate it with funds. I’ve used it several times to travel between my place in Tacoma, downtown Seattle, and my girlfriend’s place on Queen Anne – transferring between three different systems, no problems.

This isn’t rocket science.

What is the reasoning behind the 30 day expiration?

What is the reasoning behind the 30 day expiration?

Just got mine from the vending machine. Was a breeze. I felt sorry for the 75 or so folks in line.

Just got mine from the vending machine. Was a breeze. I felt sorry for the 75 or so folks in line.

Joe, because anyone who actually uses transit uses it at least every 30 days. If they don’t, it’s not their primary way to get around, and they’re certainly not reliant on it.

My comment here is basically the same: You can’t fix stupid. THAT SAID: It would be great if, say, Sound Transit, were to put a couple more sandwich boards up near that line to say “YES you can buy a monthly pass at a ticket vending machine, YES you can use your credit card” (etc).

Joe, because anyone who actually uses transit uses it at least every 30 days. If they don’t, it’s not their primary way to get around, and they’re certainly not reliant on it.

My comment here is basically the same: You can’t fix stupid. THAT SAID: It would be great if, say, Sound Transit, were to put a couple more sandwich boards up near that line to say “YES you can buy a monthly pass at a ticket vending machine, YES you can use your credit card” (etc).

Sorry but if you refuse to learn to use technology you are going to be disadvantaged. Those machine save money, something I am sure that most people in that line would accuse the government of wasting. Well spending thousands to hold everyones hand through a rather simple transition is a waste of money.

@2 Thats why we need to make sure that there are support systems in place for people with mental disabilities. Its much more efficient then expecting every organization like Metro to make sure everything is fully understandable by people with limited cognitive abilities.

If anything ORCA, with its simplified transfer system, ability to fund over the internet, and easy replacements when lost, are a great thing for the mentally disabled. You can give you daughter a card, show her how to tap it, and simply fund it once a month or year with a pass.

Metro has made this is as simple as possible.

Sorry but if you refuse to learn to use technology you are going to be disadvantaged. Those machine save money, something I am sure that most people in that line would accuse the government of wasting. Well spending thousands to hold everyones hand through a rather simple transition is a waste of money.

@2 Thats why we need to make sure that there are support systems in place for people with mental disabilities. Its much more efficient then expecting every organization like Metro to make sure everything is fully understandable by people with limited cognitive abilities.

If anything ORCA, with its simplified transfer system, ability to fund over the internet, and easy replacements when lost, are a great thing for the mentally disabled. You can give you daughter a card, show her how to tap it, and simply fund it once a month or year with a pass.

Metro has made this is as simple as possible.

@4 As far as I understand it the 30 days is only when you add new value. The value has to be uploaded to the card and the system will only store that info for 30 days. After you do that you can not use it for as long as you want.

@4 As far as I understand it the 30 days is only when you add new value. The value has to be uploaded to the card and the system will only store that info for 30 days. After you do that you can not use it for as long as you want.

I’m a regular bus rider and I think the new ORCA system *is* confusing at first encounter. The website is especially garbled with regard to terminology. They don’t prominently explain what an “e-purse” is (how contrarily gendered to not call it an e-wallet!). Worse is the conceptual confusion around the fact that it’s non-intuitive to add value in the form of a PugetPass to an ORCA card, since the PugetPass used to *be* the card. Would have been much easier to say ORCA *replaces* the PugetPass instead of making ORCA envelop the PugetPass.

I’m a regular bus rider and I think the new ORCA system *is* confusing at first encounter. The website is especially garbled with regard to terminology. They don’t prominently explain what an “e-purse” is (how contrarily gendered to not call it an e-wallet!). Worse is the conceptual confusion around the fact that it’s non-intuitive to add value in the form of a PugetPass to an ORCA card, since the PugetPass used to *be* the card. Would have been much easier to say ORCA *replaces* the PugetPass instead of making ORCA envelop the PugetPass.

…Would have also been nice if they added a sweetener to the e-purse transaction, say 11 fares for the price of 10 or a flat 10% discount or something like the MetroCard in NYC does. That would have spread out the transition over a longer period as bargain-hunters shop earlier. Going only punitive in the transition of course has bred resentment of the whole thing. Finally, the 24-hour lag between online purchase and live fare is also oddly slow for a “hi-tech” system.

…Would have also been nice if they added a sweetener to the e-purse transaction, say 11 fares for the price of 10 or a flat 10% discount or something like the MetroCard in NYC does. That would have spread out the transition over a longer period as bargain-hunters shop earlier. Going only punitive in the transition of course has bred resentment of the whole thing. Finally, the 24-hour lag between online purchase and live fare is also oddly slow for a “hi-tech” system.

Sam, I work with volunteers and technology every day. What you are seeing in these line is a concentration of Luddites who are more concerned with a spot in line than attempting to learn something new. Considering the area the station is in, there were probably several thousand orca users above and around you without these issues. You’re just taking pictures of the left side of the bell curve.

Sam, I work with volunteers and technology every day. What you are seeing in these line is a concentration of Luddites who are more concerned with a spot in line than attempting to learn something new. Considering the area the station is in, there were probably several thousand orca users above and around you without these issues. You’re just taking pictures of the left side of the bell curve.

sadly, the ‘left side of the bell curve’ is half the population and most likely more than half of the transit users.

sadly, the ‘left side of the bell curve’ is half the population and most likely more than half of the transit users.

Keep in mind a lot of those people waiting in line may in fact be a bit different than you – not every person who rides Metro can afford to just toss $20 onto an Orca card like it’s a game. Many of those people may be people who ride using a reduced regional fare pass, or have other different fare arrangements than just a straight cash fare. I don’t disagree Seattleites can be a bit intransigent and even kind of stupid at times, but if you take the time to observe how people are actually paying their fares when they board or leave the bus, you’ll notice an awful lot of them have reduced fare cards. If you go to the Orca web site, things like reduced fare, elderly, etc. are special cases and are either not doable online, or require extra steps than just punching in a credit card.

Keep in mind a lot of those people waiting in line may in fact be a bit different than you – not every person who rides Metro can afford to just toss $20 onto an Orca card like it’s a game. Many of those people may be people who ride using a reduced regional fare pass, or have other different fare arrangements than just a straight cash fare. I don’t disagree Seattleites can be a bit intransigent and even kind of stupid at times, but if you take the time to observe how people are actually paying their fares when they board or leave the bus, you’ll notice an awful lot of them have reduced fare cards. If you go to the Orca web site, things like reduced fare, elderly, etc. are special cases and are either not doable online, or require extra steps than just punching in a credit card.

As a lifelong bus rider I’ve endured MANY changes in our transit system, both in bus service and how we pay for it.

I consider myself fairly well informed on our transit system, but acccording to some commenters, my misstep mentioned here puts me in the “stupid” category. I prefer uninformed thank you very much!

As a lifelong bus rider I’ve endured MANY changes in our transit system, both in bus service and how we pay for it.

I consider myself fairly well informed on our transit system, but acccording to some commenters, my misstep mentioned here puts me in the “stupid” category. I prefer uninformed thank you very much!

@4 – The card doesn’t actually expire, it just becomes inactive. Any balance you have on the e-purse switches to $0 online, but if you contact ORCA customer service, they’ll reactive the balance on your card. Might take a day or so, but you don’t lose out on an unused balance. Which is probably not very convenient for someone who uses mass transit on a daily basis, but if they let their cards go inactive after 30 days, then it probably isn’t a major issue. Hopefully.

And as a general note, I’m disappointed that you can’t use the ORCA card to cover the vehicle fare on board the ferry system. Learned that one the hard way the other weekend.

@4 – The card doesn’t actually expire, it just becomes inactive. Any balance you have on the e-purse switches to $0 online, but if you contact ORCA customer service, they’ll reactive the balance on your card. Might take a day or so, but you don’t lose out on an unused balance. Which is probably not very convenient for someone who uses mass transit on a daily basis, but if they let their cards go inactive after 30 days, then it probably isn’t a major issue. Hopefully.

And as a general note, I’m disappointed that you can’t use the ORCA card to cover the vehicle fare on board the ferry system. Learned that one the hard way the other weekend.

ORCA has been live for months. I bought a card at the kiosk myself months ago. There have been ORCA ads everywhere on the buses and trains. The only baffling part to me is that all the people in line waited until the last week of the year to take any action.

ORCA has been live for months. I bought a card at the kiosk myself months ago. There have been ORCA ads everywhere on the buses and trains. The only baffling part to me is that all the people in line waited until the last week of the year to take any action.

First off, ORCA’s still got serious problems. Personally, I generally use transit a couple of times per month. I’d really, really like to be able to throw twenty bucks on an ORCA card, throw my wallet on the reader, and refill when I’m getting low, but the thirty days thing is killer. I don’t always use the bus or train every thirty days.

This is a massive blown opportunity, because it could have made transit a lot easier for occasional users (not to mention free money for the transit agencies as that twenty bucks I put in sits in my account). Instead, I’ll still have to carry a wad of ones and quarters, because I’m not going to throw away money that won’t be there when I go to ride transit.

Second, and more important – OK, it’s confusing to people who aren’t very smart. That’s still a serious problem, because a lot of people, including people with mental disabilities, need to ride the bus to get around. Many of them use a reduced fare permit, and tying it to ORCA is a major change. Pamphlets don’t help when they can’t necessarily read or begin to understand what “RFID card with preloaded fare tied to your permit” means. You’ve also got older people who don’t understand even a supposedly completely intuitive interface on the vending machines. These people have gotten used to the current system, and now they’re having the rug pulled out from underneath them. Of course they’re going to get in line and ask questions, rather than working with an electronic system they don’t really understand. If you look at the picture, you’ll see that the Publicola demographic is rather underrepresented – but that’s only a small portion of the city’s population.

First off, ORCA’s still got serious problems. Personally, I generally use transit a couple of times per month. I’d really, really like to be able to throw twenty bucks on an ORCA card, throw my wallet on the reader, and refill when I’m getting low, but the thirty days thing is killer. I don’t always use the bus or train every thirty days.

This is a massive blown opportunity, because it could have made transit a lot easier for occasional users (not to mention free money for the transit agencies as that twenty bucks I put in sits in my account). Instead, I’ll still have to carry a wad of ones and quarters, because I’m not going to throw away money that won’t be there when I go to ride transit.

Second, and more important – OK, it’s confusing to people who aren’t very smart. That’s still a serious problem, because a lot of people, including people with mental disabilities, need to ride the bus to get around. Many of them use a reduced fare permit, and tying it to ORCA is a major change. Pamphlets don’t help when they can’t necessarily read or begin to understand what “RFID card with preloaded fare tied to your permit” means. You’ve also got older people who don’t understand even a supposedly completely intuitive interface on the vending machines. These people have gotten used to the current system, and now they’re having the rug pulled out from underneath them. Of course they’re going to get in line and ask questions, rather than working with an electronic system they don’t really understand. If you look at the picture, you’ll see that the Publicola demographic is rather underrepresented – but that’s only a small portion of the city’s population.

I could agree with previous commenters who say the public has a responsibility to be better informed, to not be scared of technology, to read the countless signs and notices and news articles around them about the impending changes, etc…

But I can’t help also pointing out that this kind of response from the public should be no surprise to a government agency — and Sound Transit has ALWAYS been terrible about making information readily and easily available to the public.

This rollout could be handled much better, and the website and technology could actually be better prepared for this transition.

It’s not, and Sound Transit isn’t; and no matter how “stupid” some people are, the finger should continue to be pointed directly at Sound Transit’s outreach team for dropping the ball on this one.

I could agree with previous commenters who say the public has a responsibility to be better informed, to not be scared of technology, to read the countless signs and notices and news articles around them about the impending changes, etc…

But I can’t help also pointing out that this kind of response from the public should be no surprise to a government agency — and Sound Transit has ALWAYS been terrible about making information readily and easily available to the public.

This rollout could be handled much better, and the website and technology could actually be better prepared for this transition.

It’s not, and Sound Transit isn’t; and no matter how “stupid” some people are, the finger should continue to be pointed directly at Sound Transit’s outreach team for dropping the ball on this one.

Sound Transit is still evolving. They really don’t understand public transit yet and they certainly don’t understand customer service yet. But, hopefully this will evolve. Earlier in Sound Transit’s history there was literally no reason to have or use an ORCA card. So, evolution comes slowly but it does come. Why we still have more than one transit agency really speaks to the lack of evolution of us – not the agencies themselves. If we really wanted transit service we would demand one system – period.

Sound Transit is still evolving. They really don’t understand public transit yet and they certainly don’t understand customer service yet. But, hopefully this will evolve. Earlier in Sound Transit’s history there was literally no reason to have or use an ORCA card. So, evolution comes slowly but it does come. Why we still have more than one transit agency really speaks to the lack of evolution of us – not the agencies themselves. If we really wanted transit service we would demand one system – period.

I’ve had my ORCA card for about two months & I love it but it is the least intuitive system of any major city I’ve lived in. I was just on the East Coast and was impressed all over again by how easy New York makes it to ride the subway. The card kiosks are simple, brightly colored and obvious. You have a range of options for paying. It’s fast. By contrast, while I’ve found ORCA easy to use, getting it set up / refilled is a pain in the ass. The website isn’t clear (and doesn’t appear to be optimized to work with Firefox). You have to go to Westlake to get immediate value added to your card. We are not the first city to move to a card system. Why is this so difficult?

@ 19: Excellent point re: needing just ONE transit system. Either Sound Transit or Metro but not individual agencies and certainly not an additional light rail agency for the City of Seattle. Again, New York did this ages ago. Unify the systems, improve the service. Like, why the hell doesn’t the Metro trip planner allow me to smoothly plan my bus / light rail commute?

I’ve had my ORCA card for about two months & I love it but it is the least intuitive system of any major city I’ve lived in. I was just on the East Coast and was impressed all over again by how easy New York makes it to ride the subway. The card kiosks are simple, brightly colored and obvious. You have a range of options for paying. It’s fast. By contrast, while I’ve found ORCA easy to use, getting it set up / refilled is a pain in the ass. The website isn’t clear (and doesn’t appear to be optimized to work with Firefox). You have to go to Westlake to get immediate value added to your card. We are not the first city to move to a card system. Why is this so difficult?

@ 19: Excellent point re: needing just ONE transit system. Either Sound Transit or Metro but not individual agencies and certainly not an additional light rail agency for the City of Seattle. Again, New York did this ages ago. Unify the systems, improve the service. Like, why the hell doesn’t the Metro trip planner allow me to smoothly plan my bus / light rail commute?

I think the ORCA contract is handled by Metro, not SoundTransit, though of course it works for all the local transit agencies.

This article mentions “ORCA contract administrator Candace Carlson” having a press conference in King County’s King Street Center:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009079033_orca18m0.html

All my interactions have been with KC Metro personnel. The website just says “ORCA is a collaborative regional fare system.”

I think the ORCA contract is handled by Metro, not SoundTransit, though of course it works for all the local transit agencies.

This article mentions “ORCA contract administrator Candace Carlson” having a press conference in King County’s King Street Center:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009079033_orca18m0.html

All my interactions have been with KC Metro personnel. The website just says “ORCA is a collaborative regional fare system.”

There are actually people, who after they pay their rent and bills, don’t even have enough money for an iphone or broadband in their condo! They don’t have jobs where the boss buys them a bus pass or lets them surf all day on the net. They don’t even have a computer station at work. If they’re lucky, they have a station to change into the uniform.

They might not even have credit card and have to buy their bus pass with actual cash at the window. Cash they might have to get from a payday loan store. Let’s not get into how the ORCA system is about a 25% increase over the Puget Pass for a daily rider.

How dare they spoil the five minutes it takes an entitled hipster techie to cross Westlake station with their mere presence! Why can’t they stay invisible like they do when they clean our offices and prepare our food!

There are actually people, who after they pay their rent and bills, don’t even have enough money for an iphone or broadband in their condo! They don’t have jobs where the boss buys them a bus pass or lets them surf all day on the net. They don’t even have a computer station at work. If they’re lucky, they have a station to change into the uniform.

They might not even have credit card and have to buy their bus pass with actual cash at the window. Cash they might have to get from a payday loan store. Let’s not get into how the ORCA system is about a 25% increase over the Puget Pass for a daily rider.

How dare they spoil the five minutes it takes an entitled hipster techie to cross Westlake station with their mere presence! Why can’t they stay invisible like they do when they clean our offices and prepare our food!

Metro must have assumed Sound Transit would provide signage. Sound Transit must have assumed Metro would provide signage. (It’s the same problem as all the bus stop changes at the airport, which require a hike to figure out.)

When someone is at the front of a line, they are not going to give up their hour investment to save five minutes on the advice of some plain-clothes person who is obviously not a Metro or ST employee. That’s common sense.

This is just one more of those examples of laziness on the part of ST/Metro management. So, these folks didn’t read the press release. So, these people didn’t check the website. So, these people didn’t look all over the mezanine to check for vending machines that were not advertised.

Sound Transit has “ambassadors” standing around at various stations. They can afford to send one of them to help out at the Metro customer service station directing people to the vending machines as appropriate.

It is not the people in line who are stupid.

It is the managers who don’t know how to change the loudspearker messages in the bus tunnel (e.g. “The following buses have been re-routed to the surface…”), who don’t know how to send word to light rail stations when a derailment has curtailed service, and who can’t get their act together to find a person to staff the third window at the customer service station, or just to direct people from the line to the TVMs as appropriate, who are looking like they just don’t give a d…

Metro must have assumed Sound Transit would provide signage. Sound Transit must have assumed Metro would provide signage. (It’s the same problem as all the bus stop changes at the airport, which require a hike to figure out.)

When someone is at the front of a line, they are not going to give up their hour investment to save five minutes on the advice of some plain-clothes person who is obviously not a Metro or ST employee. That’s common sense.

This is just one more of those examples of laziness on the part of ST/Metro management. So, these folks didn’t read the press release. So, these people didn’t check the website. So, these people didn’t look all over the mezanine to check for vending machines that were not advertised.

Sound Transit has “ambassadors” standing around at various stations. They can afford to send one of them to help out at the Metro customer service station directing people to the vending machines as appropriate.

It is not the people in line who are stupid.

It is the managers who don’t know how to change the loudspearker messages in the bus tunnel (e.g. “The following buses have been re-routed to the surface…”), who don’t know how to send word to light rail stations when a derailment has curtailed service, and who can’t get their act together to find a person to staff the third window at the customer service station, or just to direct people from the line to the TVMs as appropriate, who are looking like they just don’t give a d…

There’ve been about 5 posts on here with the word “stupid” in them. A couple others also make comments about older people.

I’m older, but I’m not stupid and I’m not a Luddite. My daughter’s autistic, not stupid. It’s a communication handicap — get it? She needs clear communications to understand things. There are quite a number of people who have mental/communication handicaps and they almost all have reduced-fare passes. They don’t all have mothers to help them, and in this case the fairly-bright, no-communications-handicap mother couldn’t get it either.

The on-line forms at ORCA and METRO are unuseable for reduced-fare situations. I called the phone numbers three times and was put on hold for more than 5 minutes each time. I posted an on-line question and was not replied to. I went to where my daughter usually gets her METRO card sticker and they didn’t know. What the fuck.

The lack of empathy displayed on here for everyone who isn’t a 28-year-old techno-twit is appalling. Someday, you guys will get old. You may already be on your way to stupid. And God help you at that point if no one else will, and with your attitudes, I don’t know who would want to.

There’ve been about 5 posts on here with the word “stupid” in them. A couple others also make comments about older people.

I’m older, but I’m not stupid and I’m not a Luddite. My daughter’s autistic, not stupid. It’s a communication handicap — get it? She needs clear communications to understand things. There are quite a number of people who have mental/communication handicaps and they almost all have reduced-fare passes. They don’t all have mothers to help them, and in this case the fairly-bright, no-communications-handicap mother couldn’t get it either.

The on-line forms at ORCA and METRO are unuseable for reduced-fare situations. I called the phone numbers three times and was put on hold for more than 5 minutes each time. I posted an on-line question and was not replied to. I went to where my daughter usually gets her METRO card sticker and they didn’t know. What the fuck.

The lack of empathy displayed on here for everyone who isn’t a 28-year-old techno-twit is appalling. Someday, you guys will get old. You may already be on your way to stupid. And God help you at that point if no one else will, and with your attitudes, I don’t know who would want to.

@22, Actually, ORCA will save users money if they transfer between systems, as they will now receive a paid fare transfer from system to system.

The folks getting screwed are those who continue to pay cash (often low-income or seniors) who will have to pay full fare each time they transfer between systems.

@22, Actually, ORCA will save users money if they transfer between systems, as they will now receive a paid fare transfer from system to system.

The folks getting screwed are those who continue to pay cash (often low-income or seniors) who will have to pay full fare each time they transfer between systems.

Back in the snowstorm of ’08, I tried calling Metro customer service several times. Each time, the menus led back around in a circle to the original message. I eventually had to take a cab to the airport because nobody from Metro or ST bothered to come down to the tunnel and tell everyone the buses were no longer going through the tunnel, and I had no time left to wait for the bus on 3rd Ave.

A little investment in having enough people to answer the phone at customer service should pay for itself in added fare revenue. Just a thought.

Back in the snowstorm of ’08, I tried calling Metro customer service several times. Each time, the menus led back around in a circle to the original message. I eventually had to take a cab to the airport because nobody from Metro or ST bothered to come down to the tunnel and tell everyone the buses were no longer going through the tunnel, and I had no time left to wait for the bus on 3rd Ave.

A little investment in having enough people to answer the phone at customer service should pay for itself in added fare revenue. Just a thought.

The tunnel belongs to METRO not SOUNDTRANSIT…get METRO to ALLOW Soundtransit to have sandwhich boards or signs pointing towards the TVMS for the people in lines wanting to buy tickets would be a plus. Better signage would help…so maybe MEtro should allow the fellow transit agency to help the public…

The tunnel belongs to METRO not SOUNDTRANSIT…get METRO to ALLOW Soundtransit to have sandwhich boards or signs pointing towards the TVMS for the people in lines wanting to buy tickets would be a plus. Better signage would help…so maybe MEtro should allow the fellow transit agency to help the public…

@22
Puget Passes work the same with ORCA as they always have, there is no price increase. Perhaps you are confusing the ability to load a stored value on the card (epurse) with the ability to load a pass?

@22
Puget Passes work the same with ORCA as they always have, there is no price increase. Perhaps you are confusing the ability to load a stored value on the card (epurse) with the ability to load a pass?

The ORCA website is horrible and hard to use, even for transit geeks who work in the technology field. If ST/Metro hired an outside firm to do it they really need to fire them and get a better company with a good resume of doing similar sorts of sites. If it was in-house they really need to hire someone from outside who understands how to do these things right.

Many other details of ORCA have been mishandled. There aren’t nearly enough locations where you can buy ORCA and load a value. At the very least there should have been a ORCA vending machine at every major transit center in the region. Furthermore the communications have been poorly handled. For example most people don’t know you can buy an ORCA card at a LINK or Sounder TVM.

A better approach would have been to mail an ORCA card with $5 loaded on it to every residential address in King, Kitsap, Pierce, and Snohomish Counties. Include some clearly written matterials explaining what the card is, how to use it, and how to load cash and passes on it.

The ORCA website is horrible and hard to use, even for transit geeks who work in the technology field. If ST/Metro hired an outside firm to do it they really need to fire them and get a better company with a good resume of doing similar sorts of sites. If it was in-house they really need to hire someone from outside who understands how to do these things right.

Many other details of ORCA have been mishandled. There aren’t nearly enough locations where you can buy ORCA and load a value. At the very least there should have been a ORCA vending machine at every major transit center in the region. Furthermore the communications have been poorly handled. For example most people don’t know you can buy an ORCA card at a LINK or Sounder TVM.

A better approach would have been to mail an ORCA card with $5 loaded on it to every residential address in King, Kitsap, Pierce, and Snohomish Counties. Include some clearly written matterials explaining what the card is, how to use it, and how to load cash and passes on it.

Why is that everyone wants something for free…

Why is that everyone wants something for free…

@28 -
If there is a way for individuals to load a pass at a set monthly price as you are implying, Sound Transit is sure making it hard to find.

Before when I purchased a $72 Puget Pass, at two $2 peak rides weekdays and some $1.75 weekend/off peak rides, my pass was paid off around the 20th of every month. Now I’ll have add another $20+ on ORCA to make it though the whole month. I’ll probably put a hundred on the card and I personally can afford non-commute/non-essential rides if I go over. However many people will stay home or drive for non-required trips.

I know for people who only ride the bus 10-15 times a month, the ORCA is a convenience and they pay what they use, Puget Passes didn’t make sense for them. For people who rely on the bus daily and buy their own passes it is a price increase.

@28 -
If there is a way for individuals to load a pass at a set monthly price as you are implying, Sound Transit is sure making it hard to find.

Before when I purchased a $72 Puget Pass, at two $2 peak rides weekdays and some $1.75 weekend/off peak rides, my pass was paid off around the 20th of every month. Now I’ll have add another $20+ on ORCA to make it though the whole month. I’ll probably put a hundred on the card and I personally can afford non-commute/non-essential rides if I go over. However many people will stay home or drive for non-required trips.

I know for people who only ride the bus 10-15 times a month, the ORCA is a convenience and they pay what they use, Puget Passes didn’t make sense for them. For people who rely on the bus daily and buy their own passes it is a price increase.

People who drive and pay to park their car are paying more than they would if they would just take the bus but some people can’t give up their car. GET an ORCA card…it really isn’t as hard as what people are saying, the website is not hard to use. Load some cash on the epurse, or a pass and a retail outlet, online or a TVM. Don’t be so hard headed and stubborn people get out from under your rock and “get on board”

People who drive and pay to park their car are paying more than they would if they would just take the bus but some people can’t give up their car. GET an ORCA card…it really isn’t as hard as what people are saying, the website is not hard to use. Load some cash on the epurse, or a pass and a retail outlet, online or a TVM. Don’t be so hard headed and stubborn people get out from under your rock and “get on board”

For one, I like the ORCA system, and have had no problems with it since I started using it 6 months ago.
But, unpublished information that needs to be highlighted:

@@ If you use a reduced fare permit (Senior or Disabled) you need to convert the permit to an ORCA card by physically going to the Customer Service Center – bus tunnel, Jackson street, or Freighthouse square (Pierce transit). I converted mine (Senior) in Tacoma, took all of 2 minutes.

@@The 30 day posting is only for the first time a card is used or when money is posted to the E-Purse. This is a complicated process but trust me here. So if you load money on line and don’t use the card for the next 30 days you’ll get bit. But just contact Orca Customer Service — email works — for activation.

@@The only place to transfer from a Link train to a bus in the tunnel is at the International Station. Its the only one with Orca readers on the northbound platform. The other stations require you to go to the mezzanine level. This is a serious challenge if you have tight connection and is, IMHO, an ADA compliance issue. It also isn’t mentioned in any instructions that I’ve seen.

Otherwise, I use the card for travel in the city (I have an annual senior pass for metro) and trips to, for example, Tacoma and simply tap the card. I don’t need to fumble with money or figure out the complex rules about how much to pay. The reader tells me if the pass is used or if the E-purse is accessed and what my current balance is. The card stays in my wallet (no fumbling, no dumping credit cards on the floor. What isn’t to like?

For one, I like the ORCA system, and have had no problems with it since I started using it 6 months ago.
But, unpublished information that needs to be highlighted:

@@ If you use a reduced fare permit (Senior or Disabled) you need to convert the permit to an ORCA card by physically going to the Customer Service Center – bus tunnel, Jackson street, or Freighthouse square (Pierce transit). I converted mine (Senior) in Tacoma, took all of 2 minutes.

@@The 30 day posting is only for the first time a card is used or when money is posted to the E-Purse. This is a complicated process but trust me here. So if you load money on line and don’t use the card for the next 30 days you’ll get bit. But just contact Orca Customer Service — email works — for activation.

@@The only place to transfer from a Link train to a bus in the tunnel is at the International Station. Its the only one with Orca readers on the northbound platform. The other stations require you to go to the mezzanine level. This is a serious challenge if you have tight connection and is, IMHO, an ADA compliance issue. It also isn’t mentioned in any instructions that I’ve seen.

Otherwise, I use the card for travel in the city (I have an annual senior pass for metro) and trips to, for example, Tacoma and simply tap the card. I don’t need to fumble with money or figure out the complex rules about how much to pay. The reader tells me if the pass is used or if the E-purse is accessed and what my current balance is. The card stays in my wallet (no fumbling, no dumping credit cards on the floor. What isn’t to like?

Garrison,
I transferred from Link to Bus in the Tunnel at University Street. I didn’t tap off the train, just got on the bus, and tapped off the bus at my final destination. It figured out the correct fare.

BTW, the 30 day thing comes from the fact that all the buses have to carry around the ENTIRE ORCA DATABASE to validate the cards (no wireless/radio interface beyond the bus barn). So they have to have a way to cull the list of unused cards

Garrison,
I transferred from Link to Bus in the Tunnel at University Street. I didn’t tap off the train, just got on the bus, and tapped off the bus at my final destination. It figured out the correct fare.

BTW, the 30 day thing comes from the fact that all the buses have to carry around the ENTIRE ORCA DATABASE to validate the cards (no wireless/radio interface beyond the bus barn). So they have to have a way to cull the list of unused cards

@31 — Buy your $72 PugetPass and load it onto your ORCA card. The card holds value two ways — either e-purse, or a monthly pass.

I buy my monthly PugetPass by mail, so I got switched to ORCA back this summer. If you think this month’s rollout was botched, be glad you weren’t one of the guinea pigs who got to alpha test the customer service system, before this month’s beta testing.

It might just be ready for launch by summer.

@31 — Buy your $72 PugetPass and load it onto your ORCA card. The card holds value two ways — either e-purse, or a monthly pass.

I buy my monthly PugetPass by mail, so I got switched to ORCA back this summer. If you think this month’s rollout was botched, be glad you weren’t one of the guinea pigs who got to alpha test the customer service system, before this month’s beta testing.

It might just be ready for launch by summer.

I ride my bike most of the time. Sometimes I either have to use the bus to get home or just decide to use the bus. Imagine my excitement when I heard about the ORCA card! Instead of carrying around money, I could just slip a card into my wallet and then use it when I needed it, no problem!

Then, imagine my disappointment when I learn that I can’t do that. Totally stupid!

@34
How much data is that per card? An ID number and a few bits describing dollar amount or monthly pass information?

Drive space is pretty cheap these days. A 500GB hard drive is less than $70 retail. That could probably hold the data of a lot of cards, and I bet they could be had for significantly less than that when purchased in bulk. Or, as I suspect, do those card readers come with a pre-installed hard drive that is difficult if not impossible to replace? A hard-drive that has a woefully inadequate capacity?

I ride my bike most of the time. Sometimes I either have to use the bus to get home or just decide to use the bus. Imagine my excitement when I heard about the ORCA card! Instead of carrying around money, I could just slip a card into my wallet and then use it when I needed it, no problem!

Then, imagine my disappointment when I learn that I can’t do that. Totally stupid!

@34
How much data is that per card? An ID number and a few bits describing dollar amount or monthly pass information?

Drive space is pretty cheap these days. A 500GB hard drive is less than $70 retail. That could probably hold the data of a lot of cards, and I bet they could be had for significantly less than that when purchased in bulk. Or, as I suspect, do those card readers come with a pre-installed hard drive that is difficult if not impossible to replace? A hard-drive that has a woefully inadequate capacity?

@36, How are you unable to get an ORCA, load money onto the e-purse, and use it on those infrequent times when you need it?

@36, How are you unable to get an ORCA, load money onto the e-purse, and use it on those infrequent times when you need it?