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Founded in January 2009, PubliCola is a blog about Seattle written by journalists who are dedicated to non-partisan, original daily reporting that prioritizes a balanced approach to news. Started by longtime local editor and award-winning reporter Josh Feit, PubliCola is the first online-only news site in state history to get media credentials to cover the state capitol.

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The Surge

I’m just getting around to reading the text of President Obama’s big speech on Afghanistan, and I’m glad to see he addressed the Vietnam analogy.

He made three points to debunk the comparison:

There are those who suggest that Afghanistan is another Vietnam. They argue that it cannot be stabilized, and we’re better off cutting our losses and rapidly withdrawing. I believe this argument depends on a false reading of history. Unlike Vietnam, we are joined by a broad coalition of 43 nations that recognizes the legitimacy of our action. Unlike Vietnam, we are not facing a broad-based popular insurgency. And most importantly, unlike Vietnam, the American people were viciously attacked from Afghanistan, and remain a target for those same extremists who are plotting along its border. To abandon this area now — and to rely only on efforts against al Qaeda from a distance — would significantly hamper our ability to keep the pressure on al Qaeda, and create an unacceptable risk of additional attacks on our homeland and our allies.

Unfortunately, two of his arguments are off point. He says  a  “coalition … recognizes the legitimacy of our action,” and he says al Qaeda, a proven threat to America’s security, is in play. Those points speak to justness of our cause, but they don’t actually address the crux of the Vietnam analogy which is about battle conditions on the ground.

To that point, President Obama made one rejoinder: “Unlike Vietnam, we are not facing a broad-based popular insurgency.” On that score, Obama is absolutely right. Don’t you wonder why al Qaeda is sequestered off in the mountains and the Taliban relies on bullying fragile villages, while neither group—unlike North Vietnam and their VC support in the South—has a rebel network in the cities? (I’ve always found it ironic that Al Qaeda means “The Base” because really, they don’t seem to have one.)

But while President Obama’s analysis of the Taliban’s limp approval rating is correct, his plan for taking them on is backwards. If the extremists’ weakness is that they aren’t popular, let’s exploit that. The reason the Taliban isn’t popular is because they rely on brute force and intimidation. (The reason al Qaeda isn’t popular is because they’re totally nuts.)

Rather than sending tens of thousands of troops to out-bully the Taliban, let’s spend those billions of dollars ($30 billion for Obama’s surge) on infrastructure, economic development—building schools and hospitals.

A civic and economic surge will highlight the very thing that makes the Taliban and Qaeda unpopular: All they’ve got to offer is a sort of religious martial law. If we offer economic hope while the Taliban occasionally comes out of the hinterlands to attack and blow stuff up, their status will continue to decline.

The popular insurgency will be the one that’s building things, not blowing them up.




  • history buff

    Josh: What happened to this post? I left a long thoughtful response and it is gone. Did you remove the post and then repost?

  • history buff

    Josh: What happened to this post? I left a long thoughtful response and it is gone. Did you remove the post and then repost?

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    @1,

    Apologies. Our server crashed. Everything that went up on the site today was lost.

    This is a do-over.

    Sigh.

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    @1,

    Apologies. Our server crashed. Everything that went up on the site today was lost.

    This is a do-over.

    Sigh.

  • history buff

    Sorry that happened, Josh. I won’t rewrite, but in general I empathize with your position and Ben Franklin’s: “there was never a good war or a bad peace”. Obama is a great orator, but this Jesuit “Just War” concept is BS, better to admit he is caught in the evil corner of a war he didn’t start. Leaving isn’t a simple matter, look what happened in SE Asia after the US withdrew from Vietnam. Things got worse before they got better: millions died in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam.

  • history buff

    Sorry that happened, Josh. I won’t rewrite, but in general I empathize with your position and Ben Franklin’s: “there was never a good war or a bad peace”. Obama is a great orator, but this Jesuit “Just War” concept is BS, better to admit he is caught in the evil corner of a war he didn’t start. Leaving isn’t a simple matter, look what happened in SE Asia after the US withdrew from Vietnam. Things got worse before they got better: millions died in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam.

  • Commentator

    It turns out other countries actually did participate in Vietnam along with the US. Wikipedia mentions Korea had 320,000 soldiers who were involved for a one year tour of duty, with 5,000 dead (compared to some 58,000 US soldier deaths). Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines also sent soldiers.

    This is not “43 countries” but I bet most of the 43 countries are sending non combat troops.

    Here’s the Wikipedia article.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Other_countries.27_involvement

  • Commentator

    It turns out other countries actually did participate in Vietnam along with the US. Wikipedia mentions Korea had 320,000 soldiers who were involved for a one year tour of duty, with 5,000 dead (compared to some 58,000 US soldier deaths). Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines also sent soldiers.

    This is not “43 countries” but I bet most of the 43 countries are sending non combat troops.

    Here’s the Wikipedia article.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Other_countries.27_involvement

  • eddiew

    off point question: for mostly fiscal reasons, I wonder why the US keeps larger armies in Germany and Japan? Can we afford it any longer?

  • eddiew

    off point question: for mostly fiscal reasons, I wonder why the US keeps larger armies in Germany and Japan? Can we afford it any longer?

  • war is like rail; sometimes it

    @3, please review history of ww2 and the Civil War…

    The just war concept is valid; Nazi Germany, Japan in ww@ and ending slavery in our own Civil War being examples of times and places where civil disobedience would not have worked, and where force was both moral and effective (in that it secured a just resolution of a growing evil and did NOT lead to endless cycle of violence….at least, I am not aware of any backlash from Germany and Japanthat will lead to ww3, are you? They seem to have “gotten it” they were wrong.)

    But means is another question. When we have Pakistan as a place where Al Q. Force is good for smashing armies, taking land, then you can rebuild a nation if you put in a few million troops and billions of dollars, as we did after ww2.

    But hey, that’s not what we’re doing in Afghanistan. The problem isn’t it’s not like Vietnam, the problem is what we are doing isn’t like prior successful uses of force.

    One way to realize this is look at Pakistan….we iknow Al Q. is there, right? OBL, too.

    We don’t seem to think we have to put an American troop on every mountaintop there, do we?

    And Al Q. surely can plan attacks from Wajiristan, as well as Munich, Zurich, Manchester and freaking Montclair, NJ, too, right?
    We gonna occupy all of them?

    this whole war is the answer to terrorism is bogus to begin with as our intell agencies had the goods to prevent 9-11 and blew it.

    Occupying Afgh. just lets Al Q. recruit more for their bases in Pakistan and heck, in Manchester, England, no?

  • war is like rail; sometimes it works, sometimes not!

    @3, please review history of ww2 and the Civil War…

    The just war concept is valid; Nazi Germany, Japan in ww@ and ending slavery in our own Civil War being examples of times and places where civil disobedience would not have worked, and where force was both moral and effective (in that it secured a just resolution of a growing evil and did NOT lead to endless cycle of violence….at least, I am not aware of any backlash from Germany and Japanthat will lead to ww3, are you? They seem to have “gotten it” they were wrong.)

    But means is another question. When we have Pakistan as a place where Al Q. Force is good for smashing armies, taking land, then you can rebuild a nation if you put in a few million troops and billions of dollars, as we did after ww2.

    But hey, that’s not what we’re doing in Afghanistan. The problem isn’t it’s not like Vietnam, the problem is what we are doing isn’t like prior successful uses of force.

    One way to realize this is look at Pakistan….we iknow Al Q. is there, right? OBL, too.

    We don’t seem to think we have to put an American troop on every mountaintop there, do we?

    And Al Q. surely can plan attacks from Wajiristan, as well as Munich, Zurich, Manchester and freaking Montclair, NJ, too, right?
    We gonna occupy all of them?

    this whole war is the answer to terrorism is bogus to begin with as our intell agencies had the goods to prevent 9-11 and blew it.

    Occupying Afgh. just lets Al Q. recruit more for their bases in Pakistan and heck, in Manchester, England, no?

  • T.Chen

    @6,

    Agreed. Obama’s speech was good and I agree with the principles, but the application to Afghanistan just doesn’t hold up for many of the reasons you articulate.

  • T.Chen

    @6,

    Agreed. Obama’s speech was good and I agree with the principles, but the application to Afghanistan just doesn’t hold up for many of the reasons you articulate.

  • Michael G

    Technically you are right from a military perspective, the fact that Afghanistan was the source of the World Trade Center attacks is not all that relevant for the conduct of the war. But it is relevant from a political perspective. Americans lost sight of what they were fighting for in Vietnam, and for many the abstract geopolitical theories didn’t matter when friends and family members were coming home in boxes. In order for the conduct of the Afghanistan War to be successful, President Obama needs to be successful both militarily and in domestic opinion. Also, in order to maintain political support among the Democratic base, there needs to be the perception that the Afghanistan War has widespread international approval.

    I’m with you on reconstruction, and I imagine that if reconstruction has been the focus from 2001, Coalition forces would have mostly packed up by now. But there remains the fact that the Taliban continues to launch brazen attacks on the Afghan people, and this requires a military response. Also, more ground forces in Afghanistan allows the Coalition to rely less heavily on air power, which tends to cause even more civilian casualties.

    Other issues not mentioned in this post, but that I would want to make sure are mentioned, are how to respond to the appalling corruption of the Afghan central government and what is going on with the Pakistan side of the border.

  • Michael G

    Technically you are right from a military perspective, the fact that Afghanistan was the source of the World Trade Center attacks is not all that relevant for the conduct of the war. But it is relevant from a political perspective. Americans lost sight of what they were fighting for in Vietnam, and for many the abstract geopolitical theories didn’t matter when friends and family members were coming home in boxes. In order for the conduct of the Afghanistan War to be successful, President Obama needs to be successful both militarily and in domestic opinion. Also, in order to maintain political support among the Democratic base, there needs to be the perception that the Afghanistan War has widespread international approval.

    I’m with you on reconstruction, and I imagine that if reconstruction has been the focus from 2001, Coalition forces would have mostly packed up by now. But there remains the fact that the Taliban continues to launch brazen attacks on the Afghan people, and this requires a military response. Also, more ground forces in Afghanistan allows the Coalition to rely less heavily on air power, which tends to cause even more civilian casualties.

    Other issues not mentioned in this post, but that I would want to make sure are mentioned, are how to respond to the appalling corruption of the Afghan central government and what is going on with the Pakistan side of the border.

  • Puzzled

    If you are going to cite history as precedent for current action, at least get your history right. The same thing was said of the Viet Cong: “A civic and economic surge will highlight the very thing that makes the Taliban and Qaeda unpopular… If we offer economic hope while the Taliban occasionally comes out of the hinterlands to attack and blow stuff up, their status will continue to decline.” The indigenous supporters of the Viet Cong, and the Viet Cong themselves, were a hell of a lot more indigenous than American GI’s, and the same can be said of the Taliban. That’s why we supported some of the same people in their fight against the Russians, that we’re fighting now. You say, “The popular insurgency will be the one that’s building things, not blowing them up.” So why is the primary focus of the American effort on destruction, and not construction? Viet Nam is great for comparison with Afghanistan and Iraq, but only to the extent that, with the grace of God, Obama will learn from LBJ’s mistakes and not repeat them.

  • Puzzled

    If you are going to cite history as precedent for current action, at least get your history right. The same thing was said of the Viet Cong: “A civic and economic surge will highlight the very thing that makes the Taliban and Qaeda unpopular… If we offer economic hope while the Taliban occasionally comes out of the hinterlands to attack and blow stuff up, their status will continue to decline.” The indigenous supporters of the Viet Cong, and the Viet Cong themselves, were a hell of a lot more indigenous than American GI’s, and the same can be said of the Taliban. That’s why we supported some of the same people in their fight against the Russians, that we’re fighting now. You say, “The popular insurgency will be the one that’s building things, not blowing them up.” So why is the primary focus of the American effort on destruction, and not construction? Viet Nam is great for comparison with Afghanistan and Iraq, but only to the extent that, with the grace of God, Obama will learn from LBJ’s mistakes and not repeat them.

  • http://gomezticator.livejournal.com/tag/2009+election Gomez

    IIRC, Democrats were making Vietnam parallels during Dubya’s Iraq troop surge.

    If you’re going to pull the same thing, you can’t really be surprised when people make the same attacks against you.

  • http://gomezticator.livejournal.com/tag/2009+election Gomez

    IIRC, Democrats were making Vietnam parallels during Dubya’s Iraq troop surge.

    If you’re going to pull the same thing, you can’t really be surprised when people make the same attacks against you.

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    @9,

    You write:

    You say, “The popular insurgency will be the one that’s building things, not blowing them up.” So why is the primary focus of the American effort on destruction, and not construction?

    Please re-read what I wrote.

    President Obama’s analysis of the Taliban’s limp approval rating is correct, his plan for taking them on is backwards…

    Rather than sending tens of thousands of troops to out-bully the Taliban, let’s spend those billions of dollars ($30 billion for Obama’s surge) on infrastructure, economic development—building schools and hospitals.

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    @9,

    You write:

    You say, “The popular insurgency will be the one that’s building things, not blowing them up.” So why is the primary focus of the American effort on destruction, and not construction?

    Please re-read what I wrote.

    President Obama’s analysis of the Taliban’s limp approval rating is correct, his plan for taking them on is backwards…

    Rather than sending tens of thousands of troops to out-bully the Taliban, let’s spend those billions of dollars ($30 billion for Obama’s surge) on infrastructure, economic development—building schools and hospitals.

  • SEN

    good points, Josh. I’m against the 30k troop surge in Afghanistan because of the Vietnam-like odds that the US won’t succeed this ground war, as you point out. If our mission is based on humanitarian “the Taliban (and al Quaeda) are bad guys because of what they’re doing to the Afghani people and it’s incumbent upon The Beacon of Democracy to do something about it” rationale, what up with the Beacon’s inaction on Darfur, etc.?

  • SEN

    good points, Josh. I’m against the 30k troop surge in Afghanistan because of the Vietnam-like odds that the US won’t succeed this ground war, as you point out. If our mission is based on humanitarian “the Taliban (and al Quaeda) are bad guys because of what they’re doing to the Afghani people and it’s incumbent upon The Beacon of Democracy to do something about it” rationale, what up with the Beacon’s inaction on Darfur, etc.?

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    SEN @12,

    Pretty meaty update on Darfur and Obama in this week’s Rolling Stone.

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    SEN @12,

    Pretty meaty update on Darfur and Obama in this week’s Rolling Stone.

  • http://bhaydenhome.blogspot.com/ Bernie

    Rather than sending tens of thousands of troops to out-bully the Taliban, let’s spend those billions of dollars ($30 billion for Obama’s surge) on infrastructure, economic development—building schools and hospitals.

    The problem with that idea is that you need the military to clear and hold an area before a school and hospital do any good. For years to come the only medical personnel that will be available to staff the hospitals and teach are foreigners. Nobody is going to go there if it’s a suicide mission. If the country is secure (and I’m not convinced it ever will be; never has been) then I think you’ll see an outflow of non-government aid to help with the schools and hospitals.

  • http://bhaydenhome.blogspot.com/ Bernie

    Rather than sending tens of thousands of troops to out-bully the Taliban, let’s spend those billions of dollars ($30 billion for Obama’s surge) on infrastructure, economic development—building schools and hospitals.

    The problem with that idea is that you need the military to clear and hold an area before a school and hospital do any good. For years to come the only medical personnel that will be available to staff the hospitals and teach are foreigners. Nobody is going to go there if it’s a suicide mission. If the country is secure (and I’m not convinced it ever will be; never has been) then I think you’ll see an outflow of non-government aid to help with the schools and hospitals.

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    @14,

    Agreed. I do think the civilian missions should have military protection. Not $30 billion worth, though.

    Yes, this is risky. And they will be attacked. …. That’s kinda the point, though.

  • http://publicola.net/ Josh Feit

    @14,

    Agreed. I do think the civilian missions should have military protection. Not $30 billion worth, though.

    Yes, this is risky. And they will be attacked. …. That’s kinda the point, though.