Re: Amanda Knox

Yeah…because the US legal system is so much better. Had this blonde white girl been a black man and the facts were the same then folks would not have given two tugs of a dead dogs dick more about the story.

Yeah…because the US legal system is so much better. Had this blonde white girl been a black man and the facts were the same then folks would not have given two tugs of a dead dogs dick more about the story.

@1

Injustice is injustice no matter the social context; the case against Amanda wasn’t worth much to begin with and they never proved anything conclusive about her role in the tragic circumstances during the extended show trial.

Let’s hope political influence can mitigate the sentence and bring her home where she belongs.

@1

Injustice is injustice no matter the social context; the case against Amanda wasn’t worth much to begin with and they never proved anything conclusive about her role in the tragic circumstances during the extended show trial.

Let’s hope political influence can mitigate the sentence and bring her home where she belongs.

I haven’t been following the trial carefully, so I cannot say much about the evidence in the case, but I am also concerned about some of the standards of justice that are apparently accepted in Italy, but would be rejected in most other civilized countries.

I haven’t been following the trial carefully, so I cannot say much about the evidence in the case, but I am also concerned about some of the standards of justice that are apparently accepted in Italy, but would be rejected in most other civilized countries.

@3 Maybe you shouldn’t be an accessory to murder in Italy then? Best case here she was being a fuck up college student who was too loaded to notice someone got killed in her house. Should she really be set free by political sway?

@3 Maybe you shouldn’t be an accessory to murder in Italy then? Best case here she was being a fuck up college student who was too loaded to notice someone got killed in her house. Should she really be set free by political sway?

@4… so if you’re drunk and passed out in the next room and someone ELSE commits a crime… you should go to jail? Um… want to think about that? Hey, I know, if you’re drving down a street and someone commits a crime EVERYONE NEARBY should be jailed!!

Meanwhile, back in the real world proximity doesn’t imply guilt.

@4… so if you’re drunk and passed out in the next room and someone ELSE commits a crime… you should go to jail? Um… want to think about that? Hey, I know, if you’re drving down a street and someone commits a crime EVERYONE NEARBY should be jailed!!

Meanwhile, back in the real world proximity doesn’t imply guilt.

What a joke – Italy looks a lot like a banana republic right now.

@5 so I suppose like most internet retard commenters you missed the part about the girl bleeding to death over multiple hours, and the ridicules reason why amanda claimed she knew nothing about it. Sorry my comment left out the last two years of news on the case, I sort of expected the audience to know something about it.

What a joke – Italy looks a lot like a banana republic right now.

@5 so I suppose like most internet retard commenters you missed the part about the girl bleeding to death over multiple hours, and the ridicules reason why amanda claimed she knew nothing about it. Sorry my comment left out the last two years of news on the case, I sort of expected the audience to know something about it.

wow I cannot believe the american’s media on this case, it appears to me they want her not guilty at all costs but the decision it’s not up to you.

The accuse of anti-americanism is totally ridiculous, Italy is not Yemen or Saudi Arabia, you americans should stop acting like victims of world’s conspiracy all the time, Italy has thousands of soldier both in Iraq and Afghanistan (and Timor Est, Israel, Egypt and so on), 20 milion americans have italian ancestors and last but not least Raffaele Sollecito has been found guilty too, he got the same years in jail as Amanda and he’s italian, so where is the antiamericanism?

That’s completely stupid, you don’t like the sentence and then you start with “They hate us”, how american is that uh?

what are you gonna do next? Put Italy in the axis of evil and then send invasion troops? I’m sure most americans would be ok with that!!

wow I cannot believe the american’s media on this case, it appears to me they want her not guilty at all costs but the decision it’s not up to you.

The accuse of anti-americanism is totally ridiculous, Italy is not Yemen or Saudi Arabia, you americans should stop acting like victims of world’s conspiracy all the time, Italy has thousands of soldier both in Iraq and Afghanistan (and Timor Est, Israel, Egypt and so on), 20 milion americans have italian ancestors and last but not least Raffaele Sollecito has been found guilty too, he got the same years in jail as Amanda and he’s italian, so where is the antiamericanism?

That’s completely stupid, you don’t like the sentence and then you start with “They hate us”, how american is that uh?

what are you gonna do next? Put Italy in the axis of evil and then send invasion troops? I’m sure most americans would be ok with that!!

@8 – what does any of that have to do with the case?

@7 – like most people without a point, you name call. You can’t argue Knox was passed out or asleep and then that she should have heard the other woman. Pick one. Note that bleeding to death in and of itself isn’t exactly noisy. I don’t mean to be flip here, but it would be perfectly possible to not know the woman was dying if you didn’t hear the initial attack.

@8 – what does any of that have to do with the case?

@7 – like most people without a point, you name call. You can’t argue Knox was passed out or asleep and then that she should have heard the other woman. Pick one. Note that bleeding to death in and of itself isn’t exactly noisy. I don’t mean to be flip here, but it would be perfectly possible to not know the woman was dying if you didn’t hear the initial attack.

I’m pretty sure she did it, guys. Her defense was very carefully crafted, and made her out to be someone she clearly is not. There’s a lot they’re trying to hide about her.

The Italian legal system isn’t as polished as the U.S. system and of course their case is going to look inconsistent compared to a U.S. case.

I’m pretty sure she did it, guys. Her defense was very carefully crafted, and made her out to be someone she clearly is not. There’s a lot they’re trying to hide about her.

The Italian legal system isn’t as polished as the U.S. system and of course their case is going to look inconsistent compared to a U.S. case.

@5 @7 @9Amanda has repeated stated she was at her BF’s apartment the night of the murder. Not sleeping or passed out in the next room…

Bottom Line:
There is ZERO physical evidence implicating Amanda or her boyfriend. On the other hand, the neighborhood drug dealer and habitual home invade admits to being there and his DNA is ALL OVER Merideth Kercher’s room.

Two Theories:

Rudy Guede, a convicted home invader and drug dealer to the kids that live below Amanda and Merideth, breaks in, robs, rapes, and kills Merideth Kercer.

OR

The prosecutor’s theory: (I am not embellishing, this is what his theory is)
Amanda and her BF are part of a secret satanical cult that has been committing murders throughout Italy for the cultivation of human body parts for the resurrecting of the anti-christ. The prosecutor knows this because he is in contact with a woman who channels a dead priest whom tells her who the members of this secret cult are.

There is cell phone evidence that completely clears Amanda and her BF but the international media just don’t want to listen to those facts. The story will now when the story shifts from her being a sex crazed diabolic killer to a wrongfully imprisoned innocent.

@5 @7 @9Amanda has repeated stated she was at her BF’s apartment the night of the murder. Not sleeping or passed out in the next room…

Bottom Line:
There is ZERO physical evidence implicating Amanda or her boyfriend. On the other hand, the neighborhood drug dealer and habitual home invade admits to being there and his DNA is ALL OVER Merideth Kercher’s room.

Two Theories:

Rudy Guede, a convicted home invader and drug dealer to the kids that live below Amanda and Merideth, breaks in, robs, rapes, and kills Merideth Kercer.

OR

The prosecutor’s theory: (I am not embellishing, this is what his theory is)
Amanda and her BF are part of a secret satanical cult that has been committing murders throughout Italy for the cultivation of human body parts for the resurrecting of the anti-christ. The prosecutor knows this because he is in contact with a woman who channels a dead priest whom tells her who the members of this secret cult are.

There is cell phone evidence that completely clears Amanda and her BF but the international media just don’t want to listen to those facts. The story will now when the story shifts from her being a sex crazed diabolic killer to a wrongfully imprisoned innocent.

@10 What are they trying to hide? It’s not an issue of character. It’s motive and opportunity plus evidence linking to the crime scense.

No motive, no opportunity, no evidence = didn’t do it

@10 What are they trying to hide? It’s not an issue of character. It’s motive and opportunity plus evidence linking to the crime scense.

No motive, no opportunity, no evidence = didn’t do it

@11 What? Could you provide a link or something?

@11 What? Could you provide a link or something?

Furthermore, Cantwell’s statement speaks to the railroading in this case. We know that our US Senator wouldn’t be going out on a limb with out the facts on her side.

Furthermore, Cantwell’s statement speaks to the railroading in this case. We know that our US Senator wouldn’t be going out on a limb with out the facts on her side.

11. The media, UW and interests working with the media have a lot to gain from springing Knox, as capitulation to a murder conviction would damage the rep of UW’s foreign exchange programs.

Likewise, what motive do the Italians have in locking Knox up, Heavey? What do they gain from framing an exchange student for a murder? More so, what’s your incentive? You seem awfully invested in this story and this thread.

11. The media, UW and interests working with the media have a lot to gain from springing Knox, as capitulation to a murder conviction would damage the rep of UW’s foreign exchange programs.

Likewise, what motive do the Italians have in locking Knox up, Heavey? What do they gain from framing an exchange student for a murder? More so, what’s your incentive? You seem awfully invested in this story and this thread.

Also, Maria Cantwell is a partisan politician, and to say she would never go out on a limb and make anything up is laughable. She like any respected politician will cherry pick and twist any fact to support her argument.

Also, Maria Cantwell is a partisan politician, and to say she would never go out on a limb and make anything up is laughable. She like any respected politician will cherry pick and twist any fact to support her argument.

@ 11. Michael James Heavey

Also, I heard that Seattle is the Satanic Cult Capital
of the World which raised a little hellion like Foxy Knoxy.

@ 11. Michael James Heavey

Also, I heard that Seattle is the Satanic Cult Capital
of the World which raised a little hellion like Foxy Knoxy.

Whether the Italian justice is fair or not, it is their law. You can’t commit a crime in a foreign country and try to apply American justice. It doesn’t work that way. This young lady chose to be in Italy, she has to accept their laws.

Whether the Italian justice is fair or not, it is their law. You can’t commit a crime in a foreign country and try to apply American justice. It doesn’t work that way. This young lady chose to be in Italy, she has to accept their laws.

Oh for God’s sake!.. The girl’s DNA is mixed with the victims blood ALL OVER THE FRIGGIN HOUSE!.. And she confessed!..

I think it’s incredibly arrogant of some Americans to call into question a sovreign western country’s legal system, just because it was an American on trial (and eventually convicted)…

Besides, she did it..

Oh for God’s sake!.. The girl’s DNA is mixed with the victims blood ALL OVER THE FRIGGIN HOUSE!.. And she confessed!..

I think it’s incredibly arrogant of some Americans to call into question a sovreign western country’s legal system, just because it was an American on trial (and eventually convicted)…

Besides, she did it..

Back to our country and our justice system(s). Texas just executed a 44-year-old developmentally-disabled man. Texas has executed at least 24 people in 2009, so far. In our state, “illegal” immigrants are being held in the Tacoma detention center; they must hire their own lawyers and they are not protected by the same laws which protect you. Some have been there long periods of time while their families have no support. Our military system has not shown itself to be just when it operates in other countries, such as Iraq.

We have no right to be righteous about Italy, or any other country.

Back to our country and our justice system(s). Texas just executed a 44-year-old developmentally-disabled man. Texas has executed at least 24 people in 2009, so far. In our state, “illegal” immigrants are being held in the Tacoma detention center; they must hire their own lawyers and they are not protected by the same laws which protect you. Some have been there long periods of time while their families have no support. Our military system has not shown itself to be just when it operates in other countries, such as Iraq.

We have no right to be righteous about Italy, or any other country.

@19 Her DNA was found in the common bathroom but not one fingerprint or DNA trace from her or her BF in the brutally bloody crime scene of the bedroom.

@19 Her confession was properly thrown out by the Italian supreme court, because she was beaten and denied legal counsel. Mind you that the Italian authorities used the same interrogation tactics that they used to break Italian mobsters on a 20 year old girl.

No system is perfect by any means. But in this case the Italian system completely failed.

@19 Her DNA was found in the common bathroom but not one fingerprint or DNA trace from her or her BF in the brutally bloody crime scene of the bedroom.

@19 Her confession was properly thrown out by the Italian supreme court, because she was beaten and denied legal counsel. Mind you that the Italian authorities used the same interrogation tactics that they used to break Italian mobsters on a 20 year old girl.

No system is perfect by any means. But in this case the Italian system completely failed.

@21: Hearsay on the alleged beatings by the Italian police. I have read countless incidents of American policemen beating and/or arresting young girls, it is not attributable solely to the Italian justice system.

As for unreliable DNA on the murder weapon, it’s a pity, but society has managed to try criminal cases without fancy lab work for most of the 2oth century.

I don’t think anyone indirectly (ah, armchair detectives!) involved in the case should be making pronouncements of either Knox’s innocence or guilt. The media on either side of the Atlantic is not known for impartiality and complete veracity. Nevertheless, I would expect Americans to respect the sovereignty and institutions of other countries as we would be obligated to do the same if we committed a crime in the US (itself hardly a bastion of truth and justice). You have no right to demand or expect Knox’s release from an Italian prison, given that her case has gone through due, official process. Allowing Knox to appeal is enough, the world doesn’t need the US government stepping in, as in the Lt Smith fiasco in the RP.

Face it though, if Knox wasn’t a pretty All-American white girl, she wouldn’t be getting as much screen time and defensive posturing.

@21: Hearsay on the alleged beatings by the Italian police. I have read countless incidents of American policemen beating and/or arresting young girls, it is not attributable solely to the Italian justice system.

As for unreliable DNA on the murder weapon, it’s a pity, but society has managed to try criminal cases without fancy lab work for most of the 2oth century.

I don’t think anyone indirectly (ah, armchair detectives!) involved in the case should be making pronouncements of either Knox’s innocence or guilt. The media on either side of the Atlantic is not known for impartiality and complete veracity. Nevertheless, I would expect Americans to respect the sovereignty and institutions of other countries as we would be obligated to do the same if we committed a crime in the US (itself hardly a bastion of truth and justice). You have no right to demand or expect Knox’s release from an Italian prison, given that her case has gone through due, official process. Allowing Knox to appeal is enough, the world doesn’t need the US government stepping in, as in the Lt Smith fiasco in the RP.

Face it though, if Knox wasn’t a pretty All-American white girl, she wouldn’t be getting as much screen time and defensive posturing.

Nepotism never ceases to amaze me. Just because the prosecution’s story is based on fantasy, the the forensic evidence collection was shoddy, and jurors aren’t sequestered from biased news coverage doesn’t mean she DIDN’T do it. Do none of you remember the OJ trial?

Nepotism never ceases to amaze me. Just because the prosecution’s story is based on fantasy, the the forensic evidence collection was shoddy, and jurors aren’t sequestered from biased news coverage doesn’t mean she DIDN’T do it. Do none of you remember the OJ trial?

The prosecutor in this case seems to have a thing for wild conspiracy theories and particularly satanic cults. He is currently being tried for his misconduct in another murder investigation.

In addition, on the surface there seem to be some real problems with chain of custody on the forensic evidence.

Furthermore there is the issue that upper-middle class female American college students don’t generally go around murdering their roommates even if they go a bit wild and get into drugs and promiscuous sex once they’re away from hom. Which isn’t to say it doesn’t sometimes happen but such cases are extremely rare.

I suspect had this case been tried in any country following a “reasonable doubt” standard Knox would have been acquitted.

The prosecutor in this case seems to have a thing for wild conspiracy theories and particularly satanic cults. He is currently being tried for his misconduct in another murder investigation.

In addition, on the surface there seem to be some real problems with chain of custody on the forensic evidence.

Furthermore there is the issue that upper-middle class female American college students don’t generally go around murdering their roommates even if they go a bit wild and get into drugs and promiscuous sex once they’re away from hom. Which isn’t to say it doesn’t sometimes happen but such cases are extremely rare.

I suspect had this case been tried in any country following a “reasonable doubt” standard Knox would have been acquitted.

This is a truly bizarre conversation. @22, 24, 20, et al.: try to hold two different thoughts in your head at once. (1) The American justice system is deeply flawed and has many an injustice. (2) The Italian justice system is also deeply flawed, and appears to have worked an injustice in this case, as Michael James Heavey said.

@23: Italian law has the presumption of innocence just as we do. The lack of evidence, I suppose, doesn’t mean she didn’t do it; but it does mean that she isn’t legally guilty.

@22: “Hearsay” doesn’t mean what you think it means. Really, please shut up and sit down; you’re making a fool of yourself.

This is a truly bizarre conversation. @22, 24, 20, et al.: try to hold two different thoughts in your head at once. (1) The American justice system is deeply flawed and has many an injustice. (2) The Italian justice system is also deeply flawed, and appears to have worked an injustice in this case, as Michael James Heavey said.

@23: Italian law has the presumption of innocence just as we do. The lack of evidence, I suppose, doesn’t mean she didn’t do it; but it does mean that she isn’t legally guilty.

@22: “Hearsay” doesn’t mean what you think it means. Really, please shut up and sit down; you’re making a fool of yourself.

Knowing only what I have read in the Seattle papers I really don’t feel sufficiently informed to comment on Knox’s guilt or innocence, however a couple of things do jump out at me. Where did her family get the advice that they should spend these many months belittling the Italian justice system? That was just plain dumb. Insulting the court in Italy is just as dumb as insulting the court in the US. Secondly, did no one tell them to have Amanda spiffed up for court appearances and to knock of the whistling, sighing and other antics. It may be trite, but showing up in court in old jeans and sweatshirts and goofing off does not impress many Americans involved in the legal system here and certainly not the more fashion aware Italians.

Many comments have been made about the Italian justice system but most other Western Countries regard the American Justice System as barbaric because of the death penalty, the extremely high proportion of our population that is incarcerated and the very high rate of incarceration of blacks. Remember it was only two or three months ago that the Governor of Texas went ahead with an execution even though exculpating DNA had been produced. That was major news overseas.

Finally, Italy has convicted a number of American CIA agents in absentia for illegal renditions of people in Italy. When Italy asked the US to produce the defendants we refused. I suspect the Italian Foreign Ministry and Justice Officials will have a very choice response for Hillary Clinton and Maria Cantwell when they demand Amanda Knox’s release.

Knowing only what I have read in the Seattle papers I really don’t feel sufficiently informed to comment on Knox’s guilt or innocence, however a couple of things do jump out at me. Where did her family get the advice that they should spend these many months belittling the Italian justice system? That was just plain dumb. Insulting the court in Italy is just as dumb as insulting the court in the US. Secondly, did no one tell them to have Amanda spiffed up for court appearances and to knock of the whistling, sighing and other antics. It may be trite, but showing up in court in old jeans and sweatshirts and goofing off does not impress many Americans involved in the legal system here and certainly not the more fashion aware Italians.

Many comments have been made about the Italian justice system but most other Western Countries regard the American Justice System as barbaric because of the death penalty, the extremely high proportion of our population that is incarcerated and the very high rate of incarceration of blacks. Remember it was only two or three months ago that the Governor of Texas went ahead with an execution even though exculpating DNA had been produced. That was major news overseas.

Finally, Italy has convicted a number of American CIA agents in absentia for illegal renditions of people in Italy. When Italy asked the US to produce the defendants we refused. I suspect the Italian Foreign Ministry and Justice Officials will have a very choice response for Hillary Clinton and Maria Cantwell when they demand Amanda Knox’s release.

@26, where do you get the idea that the Knox family has been “belittling the Italian justice system”? Is the Italian justice system coextensive with one unethical prosecutor? Is our system inseparable from Mike Nifong?

@26, where do you get the idea that the Knox family has been “belittling the Italian justice system”? Is the Italian justice system coextensive with one unethical prosecutor? Is our system inseparable from Mike Nifong?

@27 “Knox’s families and her supporters have long sought to cast doubt on the Italian justice system, contending the prosecution’s case largely rested on character assassination.” By ALESSANDRA RIZZO AND MARTA FALCONI ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITERS Dec. 5, 2009.

Not only have they been belittling the Italian justice system they have been notified by the authorities that they may face charges in Italy for defaming the justice system. That may not make sense to you and me, but this trial is there and what we think isn’t really relevant to securing the release of their daughter.

Agreed that prosecutor may not only be unethical but is probably nuts. That said, if they family wants to help their daughter they should not be inflaming the Italian public and the judiciary. The Italian press has not been as bad as the British Tabloids on this case, but if you check the Italian press you will see that the Italians are pissed at Knox’s family.

@27 “Knox’s families and her supporters have long sought to cast doubt on the Italian justice system, contending the prosecution’s case largely rested on character assassination.” By ALESSANDRA RIZZO AND MARTA FALCONI ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITERS Dec. 5, 2009.

Not only have they been belittling the Italian justice system they have been notified by the authorities that they may face charges in Italy for defaming the justice system. That may not make sense to you and me, but this trial is there and what we think isn’t really relevant to securing the release of their daughter.

Agreed that prosecutor may not only be unethical but is probably nuts. That said, if they family wants to help their daughter they should not be inflaming the Italian public and the judiciary. The Italian press has not been as bad as the British Tabloids on this case, but if you check the Italian press you will see that the Italians are pissed at Knox’s family.

We are not the triers of fact. We wouldn’t be if this crime was committed in this country, right in our city, because we’re not the jury and (if the case was a “bench” trial where the judge tries it) we’re not the judge. Does anyone get what that means? It means we don’t decide guilt or innocence.

Someone is guilty if a lawful trier of fact decides they are. Under law, that’s the only way they can be termed guilty, unless you happen to have been on the scene and actually viewed the crime being committed, and had extremely good vision, knew the person committing the crime and could identify they afterward, and were of sound mind and body and perfect memory. Do any of you fit that description?

We are not the triers of fact. We wouldn’t be if this crime was committed in this country, right in our city, because we’re not the jury and (if the case was a “bench” trial where the judge tries it) we’re not the judge. Does anyone get what that means? It means we don’t decide guilt or innocence.

Someone is guilty if a lawful trier of fact decides they are. Under law, that’s the only way they can be termed guilty, unless you happen to have been on the scene and actually viewed the crime being committed, and had extremely good vision, knew the person committing the crime and could identify they afterward, and were of sound mind and body and perfect memory. Do any of you fit that description?

@29

So is this discussion fundamentally illegitimate? Can a trier of fact not be questioned? (If so, how do you explain that little thing we call habeas?) What’s your point?

@29

So is this discussion fundamentally illegitimate? Can a trier of fact not be questioned? (If so, how do you explain that little thing we call habeas?) What’s your point?

21. Here’s a neat question or three: Why did she go back to Italy if this was by all accounts a brutal and unfair process? Why did she change her story so much? Why didn’t she flat out deny having anything to do with it if she’s innocent? How do you explain her erratic behavior? I could go on and on. There are so many twists not just to the accounts in the case, but in how the case is covered and the popular perceptions being perpetuated on an otherwise ignorant public, such as the notion that this girl is actually the second coming of Amelie and would never hurt a fly.

It must be noted that 95% of the howling comes from people who knew little or nothing or had little or nothing to say about this case until she was sentenced. How many of the skeptics are bleeding hearts who seems to believe that virtually every tried suspect in a high profile case is an innocent case of mistaken identity?

21. Here’s a neat question or three: Why did she go back to Italy if this was by all accounts a brutal and unfair process? Why did she change her story so much? Why didn’t she flat out deny having anything to do with it if she’s innocent? How do you explain her erratic behavior? I could go on and on. There are so many twists not just to the accounts in the case, but in how the case is covered and the popular perceptions being perpetuated on an otherwise ignorant public, such as the notion that this girl is actually the second coming of Amelie and would never hurt a fly.

It must be noted that 95% of the howling comes from people who knew little or nothing or had little or nothing to say about this case until she was sentenced. How many of the skeptics are bleeding hearts who seems to believe that virtually every tried suspect in a high profile case is an innocent case of mistaken identity?

Also, one question: Why are people clamoring that Amanda Knox was framed and calling for her freedom, but not that of Rudy Guede, who also claims he was framed and was railroaded into prison by the Italian system? Because she is a white girl from Washington and he’s a black man from the Ivory Coast?

Also, one question: Why are people clamoring that Amanda Knox was framed and calling for her freedom, but not that of Rudy Guede, who also claims he was framed and was railroaded into prison by the Italian system? Because she is a white girl from Washington and he’s a black man from the Ivory Coast?

@29: The “trier of fact” is the person or people who make the decision at a trial. Yes, they can be questioned afterward, but their decision can’t be changed. What the guilty person can do is appeal through the court system. That’s different in every country.

This discussion isn’t illegitimate; no discussion is. But it’s basically useless. The trial’s been held in Italy. Whatever appeal is made will be decided upon by Italy, not us. Perhaps the Italian court system or Berlusconi or whoever will be influenced by Cantwell, but I’ll bet they won’t, because they’d be going against their own system of law and Italians would (rightfully) say, “You let the Americans push you around!”

@29: The “trier of fact” is the person or people who make the decision at a trial. Yes, they can be questioned afterward, but their decision can’t be changed. What the guilty person can do is appeal through the court system. That’s different in every country.

This discussion isn’t illegitimate; no discussion is. But it’s basically useless. The trial’s been held in Italy. Whatever appeal is made will be decided upon by Italy, not us. Perhaps the Italian court system or Berlusconi or whoever will be influenced by Cantwell, but I’ll bet they won’t, because they’d be going against their own system of law and Italians would (rightfully) say, “You let the Americans push you around!”

If Knox was dark skinned and had cornrows, do you think anyone in the media, or even here, would be fawning as much? Yet the idea that a young, white, pretty, US born and bred woman can be guilty of murder is so novel…if same cries, whines, and acts confused, we are all conviced of innocence, when we weren’t even there in the courtroom. Our justice system put innocent people to death, even with DNA evidence to the contrary, and somehow we have a right to bitch about Italy?

If Knox was dark skinned and had cornrows, do you think anyone in the media, or even here, would be fawning as much? Yet the idea that a young, white, pretty, US born and bred woman can be guilty of murder is so novel…if same cries, whines, and acts confused, we are all conviced of innocence, when we weren’t even there in the courtroom. Our justice system put innocent people to death, even with DNA evidence to the contrary, and somehow we have a right to bitch about Italy?

I think Cantwell is doing a disservice by focusing on the Italian justice system rather than the specific facts of the case. The issues she raised with the trial can stand on their own: attacking the Italian justice system itself is unnecessary and counter-productive. Italians can arguably claim that there are many ways in which the US system is flawed. This type of “we are better / no , we are better” argument is distracting and ultimately damaging to Cantwell’s implied goal of getting Amanda released from prison and back in Seattle. Instead, making the case based strictly on the evidence and using a more neutral tone, like “the Italian court has made a mistake” would be more effective.

I think Cantwell is doing a disservice by focusing on the Italian justice system rather than the specific facts of the case. The issues she raised with the trial can stand on their own: attacking the Italian justice system itself is unnecessary and counter-productive. Italians can arguably claim that there are many ways in which the US system is flawed. This type of “we are better / no , we are better” argument is distracting and ultimately damaging to Cantwell’s implied goal of getting Amanda released from prison and back in Seattle. Instead, making the case based strictly on the evidence and using a more neutral tone, like “the Italian court has made a mistake” would be more effective.

Every thing I learn about Cantwell, the less I like about her.

What an idiot.

When will she join the Clemmons family and feel their pain?

Every thing I learn about Cantwell, the less I like about her.

What an idiot.

When will she join the Clemmons family and feel their pain?

The family’s talking points from the start of this ordeal stressed the importance of honoring the Italian system. The charges of slander brought by the same insane prosecutor stem from one incident in back February.

@Gomez Again Amanda stressed for 16 hours that she indeed spent the night at her BF’s apartment. The authorities told her that they knew she was lying and the repeated hit her in the back in the head telling her they were going to help jar her memory. They were interrogating her in Italian and English and denied her counsel. @545 AM (again after 16 hrs) they asked her to envision herself being in the apartment when it happened. The authorities took her comments out of context and released them to the media and her fate was sealed then.

No physical evidence was in the murder scene from Amanda or her boyfriend. The alleged murder weapon neither match an imprint stain from the victims bed nor with the types of wounds she sustained. Meanwhile the assailant who’s DNA, bloody fingerprints, and a history of burglary fled to Germany the night after the murder.

There is plenty of arm chairing in this case. I encourage everyone interested in the case to watch 48 hours most recent episode that aired this Saturday. It is titled American Girl|Italian Murder. CBS News has closely followed this case and give an great overview of the actual facts entered into evidence.

The family’s talking points from the start of this ordeal stressed the importance of honoring the Italian system. The charges of slander brought by the same insane prosecutor stem from one incident in back February.

@Gomez Again Amanda stressed for 16 hours that she indeed spent the night at her BF’s apartment. The authorities told her that they knew she was lying and the repeated hit her in the back in the head telling her they were going to help jar her memory. They were interrogating her in Italian and English and denied her counsel. @545 AM (again after 16 hrs) they asked her to envision herself being in the apartment when it happened. The authorities took her comments out of context and released them to the media and her fate was sealed then.

No physical evidence was in the murder scene from Amanda or her boyfriend. The alleged murder weapon neither match an imprint stain from the victims bed nor with the types of wounds she sustained. Meanwhile the assailant who’s DNA, bloody fingerprints, and a history of burglary fled to Germany the night after the murder.

There is plenty of arm chairing in this case. I encourage everyone interested in the case to watch 48 hours most recent episode that aired this Saturday. It is titled American Girl|Italian Murder. CBS News has closely followed this case and give an great overview of the actual facts entered into evidence.

In case not everyone knows, Michael James Heavey is a King County Superior Court Judge. He and attorney Anne Bremner have assisted in Knox’s defense. Bremner is a legal analyst for Fox News, among other outlets.

In case not everyone knows, Michael James Heavey is a King County Superior Court Judge. He and attorney Anne Bremner have assisted in Knox’s defense. Bremner is a legal analyst for Fox News, among other outlets.

@Sarah68

You are correct except this is his son Michael James Heavey. Michael John Heavey is a KC Superior Court Judge and is assisting the Knox family. However, he does not read publicola.

@Sarah68

You are correct except this is his son Michael James Heavey. Michael John Heavey is a KC Superior Court Judge and is assisting the Knox family. However, he does not read publicola.

@26,

Are we the only country that disproportionately jails blacks? What is the rate of incarceration of blacks in Europe compared to their numbers in the population? Say, for example in France, Britain or Italy?

@26,

Are we the only country that disproportionately jails blacks? What is the rate of incarceration of blacks in Europe compared to their numbers in the population? Say, for example in France, Britain or Italy?

Mr. Heavey: Sorry for the generational mistake in my identification.

I’m wondering why you did not let us know immediately what connection your family had with the case — i.e., that you had inside information. I’m also wondering if it’s appropriate for you to be disclosing facts that your father and other legal help have discovered and hope to use in an appeal, whether legal or diplomatic. Although on the internet, I guess nothing’s inappropriate anymore.

Side issue: Not all US juries are sequestered. The jury in the WahMee murder case was not sequestered.

Mr. Heavey: Sorry for the generational mistake in my identification.

I’m wondering why you did not let us know immediately what connection your family had with the case — i.e., that you had inside information. I’m also wondering if it’s appropriate for you to be disclosing facts that your father and other legal help have discovered and hope to use in an appeal, whether legal or diplomatic. Although on the internet, I guess nothing’s inappropriate anymore.

Side issue: Not all US juries are sequestered. The jury in the WahMee murder case was not sequestered.

Sorry folks, I think she’s guilty. The judicial system in Italy is as good as anywhere; the evidence was solid and abundant. I think the US and the NW in particular has been viewing the trial through a biased, local press. We have been spoon fed “evidence” from press releases by a PR firm and the defense which is much easier than sending a reporter to sit the trial in Italy. And don’t overlook our American, collective assumption that cute, white, American girls are always innocent.

Sorry folks, I think she’s guilty. The judicial system in Italy is as good as anywhere; the evidence was solid and abundant. I think the US and the NW in particular has been viewing the trial through a biased, local press. We have been spoon fed “evidence” from press releases by a PR firm and the defense which is much easier than sending a reporter to sit the trial in Italy. And don’t overlook our American, collective assumption that cute, white, American girls are always innocent.

They have no evidence against Amanda. What do they have, fingerprints on a knife. She could have used it to cut anything else. And, the real murderer said she wasn’t there, and then he said she was. There is no DNA evidence and the little that is there is tainted. There was no sequestering of the jury so the sensationalized details in the case were allowed to influence the final outcome.

They have no evidence against Amanda. What do they have, fingerprints on a knife. She could have used it to cut anything else. And, the real murderer said she wasn’t there, and then he said she was. There is no DNA evidence and the little that is there is tainted. There was no sequestering of the jury so the sensationalized details in the case were allowed to influence the final outcome.

Funny how white americans always critisize black americans for using the race card, but are always quick to use the anti-american card, and see no problem with it. I am american and with the conficting stories she told and her attempt blame an innocent business owner for the crime. tells me there is something not right here. She’s also a self-admitting illegal drug user.

Funny how white americans always critisize black americans for using the race card, but are always quick to use the anti-american card, and see no problem with it. I am american and with the conficting stories she told and her attempt blame an innocent business owner for the crime. tells me there is something not right here. She’s also a self-admitting illegal drug user.

@Sarah68
As a regular visitor to Publicola, I am aware that you regularly offer substantive commentary. To respond, I intentionally gave my full name (where my commentators use creative handles) as a form of disclosure to my proximity to the case. Furthermore, I am not offering any inside information.

@Sarah68
As a regular visitor to Publicola, I am aware that you regularly offer substantive commentary. To respond, I intentionally gave my full name (where my commentators use creative handles) as a form of disclosure to my proximity to the case. Furthermore, I am not offering any inside information.

@44,

What’s so funny about this situation? And how do you know the same people complaining about “race cards” are the same ones concerned about anti-Americanism? Further, is there not racism in the US? Is there not anti-Americanism in the world? They both are fair points in many instances.

Oh, and what does being an illegal drug user have to do with whether she’s guilty of murder or not? That’s the sort of prejudicial fact that is typically excluded from the evidence shown to juries for this very reason that you demonstrate so well with your post.

@44,

What’s so funny about this situation? And how do you know the same people complaining about “race cards” are the same ones concerned about anti-Americanism? Further, is there not racism in the US? Is there not anti-Americanism in the world? They both are fair points in many instances.

Oh, and what does being an illegal drug user have to do with whether she’s guilty of murder or not? That’s the sort of prejudicial fact that is typically excluded from the evidence shown to juries for this very reason that you demonstrate so well with your post.

Sarah68: “In case not everyone knows, Michael James Heavey is a King County Superior Court Judge. He and attorney Anne Bremner have assisted in Knox’s defense. Bremner is a legal analyst for Fox News, among other outlets.”

Even if you’re actually his son, Heavey, you’re clearly operating under an obvious bias, and with information that was cultivated and disseminated with an obvious bias. That matters.

Sarah68: “In case not everyone knows, Michael James Heavey is a King County Superior Court Judge. He and attorney Anne Bremner have assisted in Knox’s defense. Bremner is a legal analyst for Fox News, among other outlets.”

Even if you’re actually his son, Heavey, you’re clearly operating under an obvious bias, and with information that was cultivated and disseminated with an obvious bias. That matters.

And I had to google you, Mr. Heavey, because I recognized Heavey as being the name of a judge. Probably no one else had that knowledge. You didn’t identify yourself as being the son of one of the family’s advisors. If you are indeed such, I wonder if your father would like you talking about it on-line.

And I had to google you, Mr. Heavey, because I recognized Heavey as being the name of a judge. Probably no one else had that knowledge. You didn’t identify yourself as being the son of one of the family’s advisors. If you are indeed such, I wonder if your father would like you talking about it on-line.

@46 “Funny”, as defined by most dictonaries also means: curious, fishy or strange. The fact that this woman murdered a woman is not funny in the humorous sense. further, there IS anti-americanism in the world as a matter of fact there is anti-everything to some degree on earth. Just because there is anti-americanism in the world doesn’t mean that it applies here. Because someone is an illegal drug user does not mean that they are a murderer, but drug users have a higher propensity to commit crime and I have no sympathy for them as you seem to.

@46 “Funny”, as defined by most dictonaries also means: curious, fishy or strange. The fact that this woman murdered a woman is not funny in the humorous sense. further, there IS anti-americanism in the world as a matter of fact there is anti-everything to some degree on earth. Just because there is anti-americanism in the world doesn’t mean that it applies here. Because someone is an illegal drug user does not mean that they are a murderer, but drug users have a higher propensity to commit crime and I have no sympathy for them as you seem to.

I have been a male model most of my adult life and I really agree with holden caufield on this one. Whenever an American overseas does anything wrong the media here portrays them as an angel and people line up to play the anti-American card. However, when a minority uses racial bias as an excuse, everyone laughs it off. The evidence was there, I’m quite sure it was a difficult decision for the jury, but ultimately it was a very fair decision!

I have been a male model most of my adult life and I really agree with holden caufield on this one. Whenever an American overseas does anything wrong the media here portrays them as an angel and people line up to play the anti-American card. However, when a minority uses racial bias as an excuse, everyone laughs it off. The evidence was there, I’m quite sure it was a difficult decision for the jury, but ultimately it was a very fair decision!

The African did it obviously. You naive white liberal progressive white-guilt Seattle douches hate blonde girls and whites/yourselves so much that you can’t see the obvious even when it is right in front of your face. I hope the people who think Amanda did it and the people who have made anti-cop statements in the wake of the Clemmmons and Monford cop-killers ALL get violently attacked by the very black criminals you are always making excuses for and groveling to and coddling. You people are pathetic.

The African did it obviously. You naive white liberal progressive white-guilt Seattle douches hate blonde girls and whites/yourselves so much that you can’t see the obvious even when it is right in front of your face. I hope the people who think Amanda did it and the people who have made anti-cop statements in the wake of the Clemmmons and Monford cop-killers ALL get violently attacked by the very black criminals you are always making excuses for and groveling to and coddling. You people are pathetic.

I’ve professionally modeled for men’s magazines for over 10 years and I cannot believe that you just made that statement. I wouldn’t wish injury upon anyone, and I’m sure a sociopath like yourself that does such a thing is a great promoter for the police and justice in any society.

I’ve professionally modeled for men’s magazines for over 10 years and I cannot believe that you just made that statement. I wouldn’t wish injury upon anyone, and I’m sure a sociopath like yourself that does such a thing is a great promoter for the police and justice in any society.

“I’ve professionally modeled for men’s magazines for over 10 years”

What does that have to do with anything?

“I’ve professionally modeled for men’s magazines for over 10 years”

What does that have to do with anything?

“What does that have to do with anything?”

I’m not sure I understand your question – please do not be jealous, I encounter that quite often in my career and it’s always unseemly.

Just an an FYI, I list my profession so that people can understand my perspective. That’s all.

“What does that have to do with anything?”

I’m not sure I understand your question – please do not be jealous, I encounter that quite often in my career and it’s always unseemly.

Just an an FYI, I list my profession so that people can understand my perspective. That’s all.

That is just creepy and retarded, Martin

That is just creepy and retarded, Martin

@8 I honestly don’t know whether she is innocent or guilty, but what has been made clear is that the Italian judicial system is a complete joke. They make Mexico look like an organized utopia. The deplorable treatment of this case made it impossible to get what the modern world would consider a fair trial.

I am in firm agreement with @6 in saying that Italy is little better than a banana republic right now.

@8 I honestly don’t know whether she is innocent or guilty, but what has been made clear is that the Italian judicial system is a complete joke. They make Mexico look like an organized utopia. The deplorable treatment of this case made it impossible to get what the modern world would consider a fair trial.

I am in firm agreement with @6 in saying that Italy is little better than a banana republic right now.

56. You mean as told to us by a group of American interests looking to have Knox freed? Yeah, I totally believe their accounts are completely objective and unbiased.

56. You mean as told to us by a group of American interests looking to have Knox freed? Yeah, I totally believe their accounts are completely objective and unbiased.

You people all really need to stop watching CSI. DNA evidence isn’t the be all and end all of every single case. TV is warping our minds, and most Americans seem to dense to actually read accounts of this story that aren’t fed to them via the PR machine that Knox’s family employed.

She has lied about almost everything from day 1 of this case, and at this point the truth is so muddled nobody will ever know what happened……..I have a friend who is an attorney and he talks about this “CSI” effect all the time, people expect some huge smoking gun that says with 99.9% certainty the person is guilty because the DNA tells them so.

If they don’t get it, or expect it, they lose interest.

You people all really need to stop watching CSI. DNA evidence isn’t the be all and end all of every single case. TV is warping our minds, and most Americans seem to dense to actually read accounts of this story that aren’t fed to them via the PR machine that Knox’s family employed.

She has lied about almost everything from day 1 of this case, and at this point the truth is so muddled nobody will ever know what happened……..I have a friend who is an attorney and he talks about this “CSI” effect all the time, people expect some huge smoking gun that says with 99.9% certainty the person is guilty because the DNA tells them so.

If they don’t get it, or expect it, they lose interest.