Born Again Hippie

Oh, and the Seattle Head Tax got repealed yesterday by an 8-1 vote. Even STB, while lamenting the loss of income for worthwhile projects, has finally admitted what was obvious — the head tax as it was structured did little-to-nothing to change individual behavior.

Oh, and the Seattle Head Tax got repealed yesterday by an 8-1 vote. Even STB, while lamenting the loss of income for worthwhile projects, has finally admitted what was obvious — the head tax as it was structured did little-to-nothing to change individual behavior.

I’m glad to see the judge and Dow are bringing The High Fivin’ White Guys back.

I’m glad to see the judge and Dow are bringing The High Fivin’ White Guys back.

@1,

That actually happened earlier this month. Yesterday’s vote was procedural as part of the budget.

Erica had the news on November 12 when the council voted 8-1 to repeal the head tax:
http://publicola.net/?p=18617

@1,

That actually happened earlier this month. Yesterday’s vote was procedural as part of the budget.

Erica had the news on November 12 when the council voted 8-1 to repeal the head tax:
http://publicola.net/?p=18617

@3 – Makin’ me wait until 9:31 a.m. for MF is unacceptable!!! I just want to make that perfectly clear.

As for MF#2 – I really don’t see the big nasty with the proposed legislation from Burgess’ office. I haven’t read the fine print, but understand the gist of it. So long as there is language that gives specific boundaries. “near” is too subjective.

I get that some people think that this would banish panhandlers from downtown, but I disagree. Panhandling at the curbside is not cool. Panhandling next to ATM machines is really not cool, and there are not nearly enough to drive panhandlers out of downtown. And touching is a no no (but I think everyone agrees with that).

I guess my question – what is the benefit of not having restrictions on aggressive panhandling? What benefit does the city receive from panhandlers?

@4 Perhaps a cost/benefit analysis is not the way to approach issues of poverty, urban street life & civil liberties?

@4 Perhaps a cost/benefit analysis is not the way to approach issues of poverty, urban street life & civil liberties?

@5 -

well, I would disagree a bit. If I am being harassed by someone asking me for money, what about my rights to not be harassed.

But more to the point, would it not be in the overall best interest to have an attractive and safe downtown shopping area, with the ability to continue to attract people who want to spend their money here in Seattle? Street performers definitely add to that scene that we have in Seattle, however I would venture that the man standing on the corner of 5th and Pine, leaning against a wall with his ball cap out, does not. Granted, he wouldn’t be affected by this legislation (he’s away from the curb, not near any ATM machines, and quite the passive panhandler).

Increases in shopping mean more tax dollars which means more ability to actually provide services to people who need them.

Of course, there are also the issues that surround the McDonald’s downtown, but each issue has a different solution.

I just don’t see how aggressive panhandling is a civil liberty issue, but that’s just me.

@5 -

well, I would disagree a bit. If I am being harassed by someone asking me for money, what about my rights to not be harassed.

But more to the point, would it not be in the overall best interest to have an attractive and safe downtown shopping area, with the ability to continue to attract people who want to spend their money here in Seattle? Street performers definitely add to that scene that we have in Seattle, however I would venture that the man standing on the corner of 5th and Pine, leaning against a wall with his ball cap out, does not. Granted, he wouldn’t be affected by this legislation (he’s away from the curb, not near any ATM machines, and quite the passive panhandler).

Increases in shopping mean more tax dollars which means more ability to actually provide services to people who need them.

Of course, there are also the issues that surround the McDonald’s downtown, but each issue has a different solution.

I just don’t see how aggressive panhandling is a civil liberty issue, but that’s just me.

As many, many people have pointed out since Burgess floated this idea some time ago, there are laws already on the book that cover harassment when it extends beyond the protected zone of free speech. Certainly if you are physically acosted, there are laws covering that. Read Fox’s very detailed account of the non-necessity of anything further being enacted, if you haven’t been reading anything about this otherwise.

If you would like to be liable for arrest if you stop someone on the street and ask them something (for directions, whatever), then I guess you’d feel more laws are necessary. Think about it. If you’re answer is “But I’m not a panhandler!”, you’ve got more thinking to do.

As many, many people have pointed out since Burgess floated this idea some time ago, there are laws already on the book that cover harassment when it extends beyond the protected zone of free speech. Certainly if you are physically acosted, there are laws covering that. Read Fox’s very detailed account of the non-necessity of anything further being enacted, if you haven’t been reading anything about this otherwise.

If you would like to be liable for arrest if you stop someone on the street and ask them something (for directions, whatever), then I guess you’d feel more laws are necessary. Think about it. If you’re answer is “But I’m not a panhandler!”, you’ve got more thinking to do.

5. Poverty does not necessarily produce the conditions that lead a person to panhandle.

Urban street life does not necessarily entail panhandling.

Using ‘civil liberties’ as a blanket term oversimiplfies the urban panhandling dilemma.

5. Poverty does not necessarily produce the conditions that lead a person to panhandle.

Urban street life does not necessarily entail panhandling.

Using ‘civil liberties’ as a blanket term oversimiplfies the urban panhandling dilemma.

When Stamper publicly apologizes with no qualification to the individuals who caught the brunt of his cops’ beating and gassing and imprisonment and the rest, then he’ll get some props. Until then, his “progressivism” runs shallow.

When Stamper publicly apologizes with no qualification to the individuals who caught the brunt of his cops’ beating and gassing and imprisonment and the rest, then he’ll get some props. Until then, his “progressivism” runs shallow.

Its a huge breath of fresh air to see Constantine focusing his efforts inwards. King county as a agency stuck in a forward thrust rut. After 40 years of piecemeal changes the county needs some good TLC. The county needs to pass off duties that cities can do bester while taking a more prominent role in those things that cities (and the state) simply aren’t doing or aren’t doing right.

What is most exiting though is his commitment to strategic planning. I can’t remember the last time I heard someone at king county utter the word “strategic” let along exercise it.

“Our blueprint for reform will take shape under the umbrella of the countywide strategic plan that I helped institute as part of my focus on performance-based governance.”

This just makes me giddy.

Its a huge breath of fresh air to see Constantine focusing his efforts inwards. King county as a agency stuck in a forward thrust rut. After 40 years of piecemeal changes the county needs some good TLC. The county needs to pass off duties that cities can do bester while taking a more prominent role in those things that cities (and the state) simply aren’t doing or aren’t doing right.

What is most exiting though is his commitment to strategic planning. I can’t remember the last time I heard someone at king county utter the word “strategic” let along exercise it.

“Our blueprint for reform will take shape under the umbrella of the countywide strategic plan that I helped institute as part of my focus on performance-based governance.”

This just makes me giddy.

It’s a huge breath of fresh air to see Constantine focusing his efforts inwards. King county as an agency is stuck in a forward thrust rut. After 40 years of piecemeal changes the county needs some good TLC. It needs to pass off duties that cities can do better while taking a more prominent role in those things that cities, and the state, simply aren’t doing or aren’t doing right.

What is most exiting though is his commitment to strategic planning. I can’t remember the last time I heard someone at king county utter the word “strategic” let along exercise it.

“Our blueprint for reform will take shape under the umbrella of the countywide strategic plan that I helped institute as part of my focus on performance-based governance.”

This just makes me giddy.

P.S. Don’t use an iPhone to comment on blogs. It’s really hard to proof read.

It’s a huge breath of fresh air to see Constantine focusing his efforts inwards. King county as an agency is stuck in a forward thrust rut. After 40 years of piecemeal changes the county needs some good TLC. It needs to pass off duties that cities can do better while taking a more prominent role in those things that cities, and the state, simply aren’t doing or aren’t doing right.

What is most exiting though is his commitment to strategic planning. I can’t remember the last time I heard someone at king county utter the word “strategic” let along exercise it.

“Our blueprint for reform will take shape under the umbrella of the countywide strategic plan that I helped institute as part of my focus on performance-based governance.”

This just makes me giddy.

P.S. Don’t use an iPhone to comment on blogs. It’s really hard to proof read.

The idea that panhandling in general makes someone feel unsafe is more the product of the psychology of the person feeling unsafe than the panhandling.

Threats & aggressive behavior are already — and ought to be — illegal. But not even the Downtown Seattle Association has been able to document that “aggressive panhandling” is particularly widespread, no matter how much it apparently haunts Tim Burgess’s nightmares. (That guy used to be a cop and *this* is what scares him? Strange.)

But just asking for a quarter? That ought be a criminal offense?

Because poverty impacts commerce?

Really?

The idea that panhandling in general makes someone feel unsafe is more the product of the psychology of the person feeling unsafe than the panhandling.

Threats & aggressive behavior are already — and ought to be — illegal. But not even the Downtown Seattle Association has been able to document that “aggressive panhandling” is particularly widespread, no matter how much it apparently haunts Tim Burgess’s nightmares. (That guy used to be a cop and *this* is what scares him? Strange.)

But just asking for a quarter? That ought be a criminal offense?

Because poverty impacts commerce?

Really?

@2–the judge in the photo is Judge Richard Jones (formerly a KC judge, but now on the federal bench). Not so much a white guy.

@2–the judge in the photo is Judge Richard Jones (formerly a KC judge, but now on the federal bench). Not so much a white guy.

Meant to add that Judge Jones is Quincy Jones’ half-brother. I rest my case.

Meant to add that Judge Jones is Quincy Jones’ half-brother. I rest my case.

@6 While I agree that there needs to be a bar set for assaultive behavior on the part of anyone toward anyone, I am really sick and tired of people who would idealize about a downtown that is as beige as all of howling ex-burbia.

Sorry, poor people have a right to the city, too. That’s the opportunity that is provided by density. Deal with the underlying social and economic issues, but don’t push it out to ‘somewhere’ else because you have decided that living in a city is cool.

I have two photographs. One is of a panhandler at Skid Road in Seattle that my Dad took in the thirties. One is of a panhandler in Baltimore that I took in the 70s. Neither of us felt like we were in any danger for being exposed to ‘gasp’ people who were on the streets of a major US city. It is the truth and reality of cities in this country. If you MUST put a hip spin on it, call it part of the urban ambience. If you really want to fix it, deal with the underlying issues.

@6 While I agree that there needs to be a bar set for assaultive behavior on the part of anyone toward anyone, I am really sick and tired of people who would idealize about a downtown that is as beige as all of howling ex-burbia.

Sorry, poor people have a right to the city, too. That’s the opportunity that is provided by density. Deal with the underlying social and economic issues, but don’t push it out to ‘somewhere’ else because you have decided that living in a city is cool.

I have two photographs. One is of a panhandler at Skid Road in Seattle that my Dad took in the thirties. One is of a panhandler in Baltimore that I took in the 70s. Neither of us felt like we were in any danger for being exposed to ‘gasp’ people who were on the streets of a major US city. It is the truth and reality of cities in this country. If you MUST put a hip spin on it, call it part of the urban ambience. If you really want to fix it, deal with the underlying issues.

@12 and 15: Exactly.

The “dilemma of urban panhandling” is a made-up dilemma manufactured, generally, by merchants and their supporters in government. I’ve been asked for money downtown (and in neighborhoods) and it hasn’t affected my life, except to worry even more about those who are asking for money because they really need it. I either give or I don’t give. If you can’t make that decision, you must have great difficulty running the rest of your life.

@12 and 15: Exactly.

The “dilemma of urban panhandling” is a made-up dilemma manufactured, generally, by merchants and their supporters in government. I’ve been asked for money downtown (and in neighborhoods) and it hasn’t affected my life, except to worry even more about those who are asking for money because they really need it. I either give or I don’t give. If you can’t make that decision, you must have great difficulty running the rest of your life.

The question I have regarding the anti-panhandling statue is whether any kind of analysis has taken place to determine if it will withstand judicial review? As discussed, it seems vague and abitrary, which makes me wonder if it would be upheld. It would be interesting, as well as efficient, to hear if other cities have like statues and if they have stayed on the books.

The question I have regarding the anti-panhandling statue is whether any kind of analysis has taken place to determine if it will withstand judicial review? As discussed, it seems vague and abitrary, which makes me wonder if it would be upheld. It would be interesting, as well as efficient, to hear if other cities have like statues and if they have stayed on the books.

16. It’s not a made-up dilemma. Yes, the idea that it’s a nuisance is fabricated. But the true issue with panhandling is that a) many of the people asking for money simply turn it over for booze or drugs and b) it doesn’t really help those who put spare change to genuine use, since tomorrow they’re still going to be broke and/or homeless and asking you for change, and no one’s going to give them any actual help that will get them off the street… yourself included.

16. It’s not a made-up dilemma. Yes, the idea that it’s a nuisance is fabricated. But the true issue with panhandling is that a) many of the people asking for money simply turn it over for booze or drugs and b) it doesn’t really help those who put spare change to genuine use, since tomorrow they’re still going to be broke and/or homeless and asking you for change, and no one’s going to give them any actual help that will get them off the street… yourself included.

@3 – Makin' me wait until 9:31 a.m. for MF is unacceptable!!! I just want to make that perfectly clear.

As for MF#2 – I really don't see the big nasty with the proposed legislation from Burgess' office. I haven't read the fine print, but understand the gist of it. So long as there is language that gives specific boundaries. “near” is too subjective.

I get that some people think that this would banish panhandlers from downtown, but I disagree. Panhandling at the curbside is not cool. Panhandling next to ATM machines is really not cool, and there are not nearly enough to drive panhandlers out of downtown. And touching is a no no (but I think everyone agrees with that).

I guess my question – what is the benefit of not having restrictions on aggressive panhandling? What benefit does the city receive from panhandlers?