Press Release Roundup: Bashing Boeing, Kinda.

You do not have a face made for teevee… Erica certainly doesn’t either.

End. These. Immediately.

Just painful.

You do not have a face made for teevee… Erica certainly doesn’t either.

End. These. Immediately.

Just painful.

Your faces are fine. Our faces probably aren’t great either. But we can’t HEAR your voices!

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Better than in the past (audio-wise). I really think y’all need a “Lav”(alier) mic if you’re going to keep doing this, though.

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATR3350-Omnidirectional-Condenser-Microphone%C3%82/dp/B002HJ9PTO/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1256781468&sr=1-25

Better than in the past (audio-wise). I really think y’all need a “Lav”(alier) mic if you’re going to keep doing this, though.

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATR3350-Omnidirectional-Condenser-Microphone%C3%82/dp/B002HJ9PTO/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1256781468&sr=1-25

@2

Speak for yourself. I’m effing beautiful!

@2

Speak for yourself. I’m effing beautiful!

what, the daily fax from the McGinn campaign didn’t come through for you to print it verbatim?

what, the daily fax from the McGinn campaign didn’t come through for you to print it verbatim?

Now, to the meat of it all -

While I, generally, am the last to ever speak ill of my labor brothers and sisters, this loss was mostly the fault of Boeing being greedy, and partially the fault of UAM trying to be UAW.

The last reports that I read indicated that Boeing would have taken a five year no-strike clause. While I agree that the two month strike is far from the main culprit in the 787 delay (I blame the outsourcing of so many parts, hence them not fitting when they got here), voting to go on strike before negotiations even begin is not a very positive way to start negotiations, IMO.

That being said, moving to a “right to work” state (that is such a bullshit phrase they use, I might add) is clearly an attempt to find cheap labor and increase profits. Will there be unions at this new plant, or will they bust any chance, as is easy to do in Southern states?

I do agree that Sen. Cantwell’s response was anemic, at best. And Sen. Brown gave a solid rebuke. How many more tax breaks and perks does Boeing want? They have the Boeing Freeway (as we call it in Snohomish County), massive tax cuts, all sorts of public transportation that heads straight to the plant…what else do they want? 100% tax exemptions?

Now, to the meat of it all -

While I, generally, am the last to ever speak ill of my labor brothers and sisters, this loss was mostly the fault of Boeing being greedy, and partially the fault of UAM trying to be UAW.

The last reports that I read indicated that Boeing would have taken a five year no-strike clause. While I agree that the two month strike is far from the main culprit in the 787 delay (I blame the outsourcing of so many parts, hence them not fitting when they got here), voting to go on strike before negotiations even begin is not a very positive way to start negotiations, IMO.

That being said, moving to a “right to work” state (that is such a bullshit phrase they use, I might add) is clearly an attempt to find cheap labor and increase profits. Will there be unions at this new plant, or will they bust any chance, as is easy to do in Southern states?

I do agree that Sen. Cantwell’s response was anemic, at best. And Sen. Brown gave a solid rebuke. How many more tax breaks and perks does Boeing want? They have the Boeing Freeway (as we call it in Snohomish County), massive tax cuts, all sorts of public transportation that heads straight to the plant…what else do they want? 100% tax exemptions?

@5 – McGinn is in the hole by 16% of what they’ve raised. They can’t afford a fax.

(and I know, Mallahan is also in the hole by 16% of what they’ve raised, due to future liabilities)

I actually got a mailer from the McGinn camp today. My ballot has been in for well over a week. Aren’t they ensuring that they’re not mailing to voters who have already voted?

@5 – McGinn is in the hole by 16% of what they’ve raised. They can’t afford a fax.

(and I know, Mallahan is also in the hole by 16% of what they’ve raised, due to future liabilities)

I actually got a mailer from the McGinn camp today. My ballot has been in for well over a week. Aren’t they ensuring that they’re not mailing to voters who have already voted?

@7: Can they actually do that? That’s kind of creepy. And…can they actually do that? Are the ballots already listed by voter at the Elections Office? Why would the Elections Office bother to let campaigns know who’s voted?

@7: Can they actually do that? That’s kind of creepy. And…can they actually do that? Are the ballots already listed by voter at the Elections Office? Why would the Elections Office bother to let campaigns know who’s voted?

That they can. I’m not sure exactly who is told (I believe it’s through Vote Builder), but who voted is public record, and with the internet and technology, that information is available immediately.

It’s actually a very good thing, because it allows campaigns to be more efficient and more focused in their efforts, and saves people who already voted from getting phone calls and junk mail (in theory). It also makes it, in theory, cheaper to run a campaign, and much easier on volunteers.

That they can. I’m not sure exactly who is told (I believe it’s through Vote Builder), but who voted is public record, and with the internet and technology, that information is available immediately.

It’s actually a very good thing, because it allows campaigns to be more efficient and more focused in their efforts, and saves people who already voted from getting phone calls and junk mail (in theory). It also makes it, in theory, cheaper to run a campaign, and much easier on volunteers.

Sorry guys, Rosy The Riveter can be easily replaced by anyone with a high school diploma.

Sorry guys, Rosy The Riveter can be easily replaced by anyone with a high school diploma.

I don’t think they’re outlining who has submitted ballots for the 2009 General yet at the Sec State website, because they can’t know until they begin counting the ballots, which they won’t do until Election Day. I checked my registration and abllot log just in case, and they haven’t noted my ballot yet even though I sent it last week.

So no, I don’t think the McGinn campaign can know yet who has and hasn’t voted.

I don’t think they’re outlining who has submitted ballots for the 2009 General yet at the Sec State website, because they can’t know until they begin counting the ballots, which they won’t do until Election Day. I checked my registration and abllot log just in case, and they haven’t noted my ballot yet even though I sent it last week.

So no, I don’t think the McGinn campaign can know yet who has and hasn’t voted.

This is the second line. It will be interesting to see if customers develop a preference.

This is the second line. It will be interesting to see if customers develop a preference.

@11

It’s the County that shares the numbers. And once they receive the ballot, they check the signature. If it matches, they scan it, take out the ballot, and put it aside for counting later. That scan=BAM, immediate knowledge. I don’t know how well coordinated King County is with the Secretary of State.

@11

It’s the County that shares the numbers. And once they receive the ballot, they check the signature. If it matches, they scan it, take out the ballot, and put it aside for counting later. That scan=BAM, immediate knowledge. I don’t know how well coordinated King County is with the Secretary of State.

pls pls pls no more just-video. I’d rather read, thank you!

pls pls pls no more just-video. I’d rather read, thank you!

Anyone hear Gregiore on the radio? Ouch. Shrill, angry, bitter, and… ineffective.

Anyone hear Gregiore on the radio? Ouch. Shrill, angry, bitter, and… ineffective.

MM @ 13 — Sorta true, and candidates rely on these “matchbacks” to target and reduce their late junk mail and robocall investments … BUT matchbacks include only ballots that have been processed — NOT the sacks and trays of inbound mail piled up in backlog at King County Elections. (I hear it’s running late, which would be consistent with the pitifully low numbers of “returned ballots” – from the process count – reported by Elections to date in this cycle.)

MM @ 13 — Sorta true, and candidates rely on these “matchbacks” to target and reduce their late junk mail and robocall investments … BUT matchbacks include only ballots that have been processed — NOT the sacks and trays of inbound mail piled up in backlog at King County Elections. (I hear it’s running late, which would be consistent with the pitifully low numbers of “returned ballots” – from the process count – reported by Elections to date in this cycle.)

@10
You obviously have no idea what goes into assembling a modern large jet aircraft. It requires extremely skilled labor and a lot of training. Furthermore when a program gets into the weeds like the 787 you need the old experienced hands to get things back on track.

@10
You obviously have no idea what goes into assembling a modern large jet aircraft. It requires extremely skilled labor and a lot of training. Furthermore when a program gets into the weeds like the 787 you need the old experienced hands to get things back on track.

You really don’t, Chris.

Look, I think it’s a shame that WA is about to lose an entire portion of business, and I’m sure many of you are bent about it and all… but let’s not act like the group of hands in this region can produce any more than a group of hands down South. They’ll fly Boeing engineers and training personnel down South and get them up to speed. Every new challenge has a learning curve, and citing the learning curve as an argument against making the move doesn’t really fly here.

You really don’t, Chris.

Look, I think it’s a shame that WA is about to lose an entire portion of business, and I’m sure many of you are bent about it and all… but let’s not act like the group of hands in this region can produce any more than a group of hands down South. They’ll fly Boeing engineers and training personnel down South and get them up to speed. Every new challenge has a learning curve, and citing the learning curve as an argument against making the move doesn’t really fly here.

We don’t ask for much. It would take me much less time to read the press roundup than listen to irritatingly poorly produced videos. Give us the option of text!

We don’t ask for much. It would take me much less time to read the press roundup than listen to irritatingly poorly produced videos. Give us the option of text!

@16 – Technicalities. Processed, received

@6 – After reading more of the whole throw down, I would be interested to see everything that was in the ten year offer given up by the Machinists. Boeing stated that they weren’t interested in bargaining, they just wanted a best offer, and ten years wasn’t long enough for no strikes, and the compensation package offered up by the UAM was “too much” for Boeing to “be able” to build the second line in Everett.

What Boeing did not do was challenge the assertion by UAM that they made an offer, and Boeing never counter offered, and more or less went into hiding after they realized the Machinists were serious.

Boeing then, of course, blamed the business environment and infrastructure as the real reasons they moved…considering the amount of tax breaks Boeing receives, the way that L&I is structured to please Boeing, the way that Unemployment Insurance is structured to please Boeing, the fact that they get just about anything they want…

*meh*…the parts that have been coming out of the Charleston plant are glorified junk, anyway, from what I hear. Boeing has had a strong history of making and assembling planes here in Washington State. Their first mayor foray into “internationalizing” the effort (the 787) is horribly behind schedule, and rife with issues. And now they want to build a new plant and train a new workforce. Nice.

@16 – Technicalities. Processed, received

@6 – After reading more of the whole throw down, I would be interested to see everything that was in the ten year offer given up by the Machinists. Boeing stated that they weren’t interested in bargaining, they just wanted a best offer, and ten years wasn’t long enough for no strikes, and the compensation package offered up by the UAM was “too much” for Boeing to “be able” to build the second line in Everett.

What Boeing did not do was challenge the assertion by UAM that they made an offer, and Boeing never counter offered, and more or less went into hiding after they realized the Machinists were serious.

Boeing then, of course, blamed the business environment and infrastructure as the real reasons they moved…considering the amount of tax breaks Boeing receives, the way that L&I is structured to please Boeing, the way that Unemployment Insurance is structured to please Boeing, the fact that they get just about anything they want…

*meh*…the parts that have been coming out of the Charleston plant are glorified junk, anyway, from what I hear. Boeing has had a strong history of making and assembling planes here in Washington State. Their first mayor foray into “internationalizing” the effort (the 787) is horribly behind schedule, and rife with issues. And now they want to build a new plant and train a new workforce. Nice.

The current management of Boeing is not in the airplane building business. It is in the cash extraction business. Fulfilling customer demands for quality and timely delivery are entirely secondary to grabbing the cash. If you want to know Boeing’s future, read the NYTimes article on the Simmons Mattress Factory from two weeks ago or anything about how current Boeing management ran McDonnell-Douglas.

The state government of South Carolina has chosen to impoverish itself, providing at least $100 million cash to start. No offer by Washington or the unions was going to match that this fiscal quarter. Long term thinking about profitability or quality or customer service no longer exists at the Boeing boardrooms in Chicago. They’d rather grab that $100 million today rather than earn $100 billion over the next 10 years.

Boeing today is no better than the private prison corporations or Cabelas stores that extort small towns to give away millions for the possibility of a few minimum wage jobs.

The current management of Boeing is not in the airplane building business. It is in the cash extraction business. Fulfilling customer demands for quality and timely delivery are entirely secondary to grabbing the cash. If you want to know Boeing’s future, read the NYTimes article on the Simmons Mattress Factory from two weeks ago or anything about how current Boeing management ran McDonnell-Douglas.

The state government of South Carolina has chosen to impoverish itself, providing at least $100 million cash to start. No offer by Washington or the unions was going to match that this fiscal quarter. Long term thinking about profitability or quality or customer service no longer exists at the Boeing boardrooms in Chicago. They’d rather grab that $100 million today rather than earn $100 billion over the next 10 years.

Boeing today is no better than the private prison corporations or Cabelas stores that extort small towns to give away millions for the possibility of a few minimum wage jobs.

Good news for Airbus.

After the Boeing leadership completely screwed up the 787 via outsourcing (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06boeing.html) the management is at it again. Applying the same approach (which is penny-wise but pound foolish) after the previous attempt at saving a few nickels failed so miserably shows just how incompetent higher management is. As for Airbus, somehow their company manages to crank out planes (and profits) despite the fact that they make their planes in an area known for high wages and strong labor unions. I don’t know if I could work on the Boeing assembly line, but I feel confident that I could do a better job running the company (I graduated high school).

Good news for Airbus.

After the Boeing leadership completely screwed up the 787 via outsourcing (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06boeing.html) the management is at it again. Applying the same approach (which is penny-wise but pound foolish) after the previous attempt at saving a few nickels failed so miserably shows just how incompetent higher management is. As for Airbus, somehow their company manages to crank out planes (and profits) despite the fact that they make their planes in an area known for high wages and strong labor unions. I don’t know if I could work on the Boeing assembly line, but I feel confident that I could do a better job running the company (I graduated high school).

The current management of Boeing is not in the airplane building business. It is in the cash extraction business.

And it’s bad to lose the business of a company that acts like that because…?

The current management of Boeing is not in the airplane building business. It is in the cash extraction business.

And it’s bad to lose the business of a company that acts like that because…?

@18
The learning curve in aerospace is fairly steep. It takes several months of training before someone is even qualified for the simpler and more menial assembly steps. It takes much longer to be able to properly do QC or troubleshoot production problems.

I’m not arguing that eventually a workforce can be brought up to the skill needed. I am arguing that unlike a fast food restaurant you can’t just replace your entire workforce overnight.

@18
The learning curve in aerospace is fairly steep. It takes several months of training before someone is even qualified for the simpler and more menial assembly steps. It takes much longer to be able to properly do QC or troubleshoot production problems.

I’m not arguing that eventually a workforce can be brought up to the skill needed. I am arguing that unlike a fast food restaurant you can’t just replace your entire workforce overnight.

@23 Gomez, if you would like to live in a state where the government hands over 100s of millions of tax dollars in cash to a private company with no guarantee they will stay, you are free to move to South Carolina.

The rest of us would like to have industries that make their money by providing an actual product or service to customers.

@23 Gomez, if you would like to live in a state where the government hands over 100s of millions of tax dollars in cash to a private company with no guarantee they will stay, you are free to move to South Carolina.

The rest of us would like to have industries that make their money by providing an actual product or service to customers.

25. Okay. Then let Boeing leave and find another, more loyal industry to throw money at. Screw em. That’s my point.

25. Okay. Then let Boeing leave and find another, more loyal industry to throw money at. Screw em. That’s my point.

shoes steel cars computers shirts printers…they all moved to lowe cost producer states…and we all buy them!

yup we said the Japanese couldn’t build cars back in the 1960s.

Look at Detroit now.

We benefitted from being lowe cost producer when USA took on more manufacturing and then beat UK….we benefitted when we were low cost producers of airplanes…our advantage in skilled labor is erodable and can disappear, other people can learn. Story of human history dudes.

shoes steel cars computers shirts printers…they all moved to lowe cost producer states…and we all buy them!

yup we said the Japanese couldn’t build cars back in the 1960s.

Look at Detroit now.

We benefitted from being lowe cost producer when USA took on more manufacturing and then beat UK….we benefitted when we were low cost producers of airplanes…our advantage in skilled labor is erodable and can disappear, other people can learn. Story of human history dudes.

The echo is painful. Get a good mike.

The echo is painful. Get a good mike.

I wonder if there will be a way to find out which airlines will buy the planes to be assembled in South Carolina so we could avoid those airlines. It’s one thing when badly made shoes or computers break down, but another thing when you’re 30K feet up in a plane with thousands of parts. Most plane failures are due to some little thing which connects to some other little thing but wasn’t screwed in tight enough. People who’ve worked on planes for years tend to know a bit more about all those little things. The ones who were hired out of a 7-11 and given two weeks’ training and paid one dollar more than at the 7-11 dont.

I wonder if there will be a way to find out which airlines will buy the planes to be assembled in South Carolina so we could avoid those airlines. It’s one thing when badly made shoes or computers break down, but another thing when you’re 30K feet up in a plane with thousands of parts. Most plane failures are due to some little thing which connects to some other little thing but wasn’t screwed in tight enough. People who’ve worked on planes for years tend to know a bit more about all those little things. The ones who were hired out of a 7-11 and given two weeks’ training and paid one dollar more than at the 7-11 dont.

Haha, you don’t even know much they’re going to get paid.

I’m pretty sure, however, it’s far more than $8-9 an hour. Airline construction, like auto construction in Detroit, is no small change.

Haha, you don’t even know much they’re going to get paid.

I’m pretty sure, however, it’s far more than $8-9 an hour. Airline construction, like auto construction in Detroit, is no small change.

Did everyone read Jon Talton’s articles about this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jontalton/2010155120_biztaltoncol29.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soundeconomywithjontalton/2010162070_learning_the_right_lessons_fro.html

Talton knows more about business then the author of this piece and everyone who has commented on this piece combined. He pretty much nailed it.

@reality: There is only one company in the world that can compete with Boeing (right now): Airbus. Airbus makes their planes in an area known for high wages and frequent strikes. Somehow Airbus manages to be successful. Boeing is trying to be the “low cost” airline builder. This has already cost them (see the New York Times article I cited above), and will really cost them when the Chinese enter the market. Boeing will probably do OK as long as we keep propping up the Military Industrial Complex, but expect them to start gradually losing the passenger jet market.

Did everyone read Jon Talton’s articles about this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jontalton/2010155120_biztaltoncol29.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soundeconomywithjontalton/2010162070_learning_the_right_lessons_fro.html

Talton knows more about business then the author of this piece and everyone who has commented on this piece combined. He pretty much nailed it.

@reality: There is only one company in the world that can compete with Boeing (right now): Airbus. Airbus makes their planes in an area known for high wages and frequent strikes. Somehow Airbus manages to be successful. Boeing is trying to be the “low cost” airline builder. This has already cost them (see the New York Times article I cited above), and will really cost them when the Chinese enter the market. Boeing will probably do OK as long as we keep propping up the Military Industrial Complex, but expect them to start gradually losing the passenger jet market.

Actually, some random dude on HA sums it up perfectly about the Boeing hysteria.

Actually, some random dude on HA sums it up perfectly about the Boeing hysteria.

Your faces are fine. Our faces probably aren't great either. But we can't HEAR your voices!

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