Still No Living Wage Specifics from Mallahan

Some open and transparent campaign he has going.

Some open and transparent campaign he has going.

The theme of this campaign: reporter calls McGinn with a question, gets an answer with at least a modicum of specifics; reporter calls Mallahan with a question, still no (fill in the blank) specifics from Mallahan.

I think my husband (not very political) had the best quote of the election season while watching Saturday night’s debate, “Why is Mallahan even running for office? All he wants to do is manage all of the projects and programs that have already been decided on or our already moving forward (e.g. tunnel); he doesn’t have a single new idea or any sort of vision for our city! Seriously, if he’s so happy with the status quo then why is he even in the race?”

The theme of this campaign: reporter calls McGinn with a question, gets an answer with at least a modicum of specifics; reporter calls Mallahan with a question, still no (fill in the blank) specifics from Mallahan.

I think my husband (not very political) had the best quote of the election season while watching Saturday night’s debate, “Why is Mallahan even running for office? All he wants to do is manage all of the projects and programs that have already been decided on or our already moving forward (e.g. tunnel); he doesn’t have a single new idea or any sort of vision for our city! Seriously, if he’s so happy with the status quo then why is he even in the race?”

@2 -

Specifically – The Stranger or Publicola (a/k/a the Propaganda Arm of the McGinn campaign) call McGinn, get an answer straight away. How quick is his campaign to respond to people that voice (valid) concerns about him?

@3 – If you’re calling the Stranger or Publicola the “propaganda arm” of the McGinn campaign does that make the Seattle Times, the Seattle weekly and WSDOT the “propaganda arm” of the Mallahan campaign?

@3 – If you’re calling the Stranger or Publicola the “propaganda arm” of the McGinn campaign does that make the Seattle Times, the Seattle weekly and WSDOT the “propaganda arm” of the Mallahan campaign?

@3

Mike McGinn answered this himself in Saturday’s debate.

@3

Mike McGinn answered this himself in Saturday’s debate.

@Stacy

It seems like you have identified the reason why people like Mallahan so much. He really doesn’t have a very specific vision (if one at all) and says things like “I’ll learn as I go”. My theory: people are fawning over this after being so fed up with Nickel’s vision and it being crammed down our throats for eight years. I am not saying McGinn’s vision is any good, but I think it is pretty sad that people are so excited about someone who readily admits that he doesn’t really know that much about how the City runs, and will be figuring out things “as he goes”. Honestly, I don’t love our choices this time around and personally, I want to feel inspired by my next Mayor. Ideally I would like that individual to have a comprehensive social justice platform based on years of experience interfacing with government. But I guess I will just vote for the least offensive corporate white dude instead.

@Stacy

It seems like you have identified the reason why people like Mallahan so much. He really doesn’t have a very specific vision (if one at all) and says things like “I’ll learn as I go”. My theory: people are fawning over this after being so fed up with Nickel’s vision and it being crammed down our throats for eight years. I am not saying McGinn’s vision is any good, but I think it is pretty sad that people are so excited about someone who readily admits that he doesn’t really know that much about how the City runs, and will be figuring out things “as he goes”. Honestly, I don’t love our choices this time around and personally, I want to feel inspired by my next Mayor. Ideally I would like that individual to have a comprehensive social justice platform based on years of experience interfacing with government. But I guess I will just vote for the least offensive corporate white dude instead.

The only reference to a “living wage” I have seen so far has been in the SeattleWeekly, and it was only mentioned in context of jobs.

They don’t hear him say that as a public servant he hopes to use what he learned in business to increase the number of jobs that pay living wages and to use savings from more efficient city budgets and departments to enhance human services.

A TRANSIT-LOVING, CAR-HATING, BIKE-RIDING, PROGRESSIVE ENVIRONMENTALIST CASTS HER VOTE FOR MAYOR
by Judy Lightfoot

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/10/a_transit-loving_car-hating_bi.php

but I have not seen any policy papers

The only reference to a “living wage” I have seen so far has been in the SeattleWeekly, and it was only mentioned in context of jobs.

They don’t hear him say that as a public servant he hopes to use what he learned in business to increase the number of jobs that pay living wages and to use savings from more efficient city budgets and departments to enhance human services.

A TRANSIT-LOVING, CAR-HATING, BIKE-RIDING, PROGRESSIVE ENVIRONMENTALIST CASTS HER VOTE FOR MAYOR
by Judy Lightfoot

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/10/a_transit-loving_car-hating_bi.php

but I have not seen any policy papers

@4 No. But thanks for playing.

@4 No. But thanks for playing.

@2:

OMG, I just re-read what I wrote there. Propaganda is such a loaded word, and far from the truth with respect to Publicola. As I have stated before, and we all know, Josh and Erica have been just as hard hitting on McGinn as they have on Mallahan. I sometimes allow their endorsement and, even worse, some of the comments here haze my opinion. I will discipline myself later for this extraordinary lapse with respect to my mouth.

I still think that the Stranger need to get off of their knees.

@4 – I’ve found the Time has been particularly harsh on Mallahan, and actually feared they may throw their endorsement to McGinn. I don’t read the Weekly, and think that the WSDOT video release was quite odd, and shows that the viaduct should be torn down ASAP.

@5 – I do not recall hearing that answer. But I may have missed it.

@7 – there was a hypothetical question posed at the KCTS Debate along the lines of “if you could only do one thing in one term, what would it be?” McGinn said something along the lines of “make it so people trust the city government again”, and Mallahan said “make it so every person who wants a living wage job could have one”, or something like that.

I am glad to see that there’s discussion about living wage jobs instead of just jobs. I hate the refrain “I’ll work to bring jobs to our region!” Shit, want jobs, open a wal-mart. Want living wage jobs? That’s a bit harder.

@2:

OMG, I just re-read what I wrote there. Propaganda is such a loaded word, and far from the truth with respect to Publicola. As I have stated before, and we all know, Josh and Erica have been just as hard hitting on McGinn as they have on Mallahan. I sometimes allow their endorsement and, even worse, some of the comments here haze my opinion. I will discipline myself later for this extraordinary lapse with respect to my mouth.

I still think that the Stranger need to get off of their knees.

@4 – I’ve found the Time has been particularly harsh on Mallahan, and actually feared they may throw their endorsement to McGinn. I don’t read the Weekly, and think that the WSDOT video release was quite odd, and shows that the viaduct should be torn down ASAP.

@5 – I do not recall hearing that answer. But I may have missed it.

@7 – there was a hypothetical question posed at the KCTS Debate along the lines of “if you could only do one thing in one term, what would it be?” McGinn said something along the lines of “make it so people trust the city government again”, and Mallahan said “make it so every person who wants a living wage job could have one”, or something like that.

I am glad to see that there’s discussion about living wage jobs instead of just jobs. I hate the refrain “I’ll work to bring jobs to our region!” Shit, want jobs, open a wal-mart. Want living wage jobs? That’s a bit harder.

Still no info from McGinn on how he is going to pay for all his transportation options.

Maybe they are too busy to talk to you? Since you are so pro-McGinn and all.

Still no info from McGinn on how he is going to pay for all his transportation options.

Maybe they are too busy to talk to you? Since you are so pro-McGinn and all.

One suspects puzzlement behind Mallahan’s refusal to get into it, suggesting he may have intended the plain meaning of the term, rather than the wonk meaning. And another lightning response from McGinn, who it seems has never met an issue he doesn’t plan to “take the lead on.”

One suspects puzzlement behind Mallahan’s refusal to get into it, suggesting he may have intended the plain meaning of the term, rather than the wonk meaning. And another lightning response from McGinn, who it seems has never met an issue he doesn’t plan to “take the lead on.”

@4, it’s not unusual for a news outlet to report on a press release or email it gets from a campaign. But normally, you would state the source of the information. For example, the Times this morning quoted McGinn implying a link between the release of viaduct video and a Mallahan supporter (Jarad Smith). My question is, did P-cola get that from McGinn or did McGinn get that from P-cola? Same with the poll numbers this morning. Immediately after the poll went public, P-cola posts the results. In a few minutes, the McGinn campaign starts an email attack on the pollster suggesting a sample size of 65 in Seattle. Then P-cola posts an “update/caveat” saying that there are a lot of questions about the poll and that it looks like the Seattle sample size was only 65.

Also, I think turning newstands into campaign signs for a candidate is basically an in-kind contribution. That’s what the Stranger did and they bragged about it. I’d say the same thing if they had put Dow, Susan, or Joe on the cover.

@4, it’s not unusual for a news outlet to report on a press release or email it gets from a campaign. But normally, you would state the source of the information. For example, the Times this morning quoted McGinn implying a link between the release of viaduct video and a Mallahan supporter (Jarad Smith). My question is, did P-cola get that from McGinn or did McGinn get that from P-cola? Same with the poll numbers this morning. Immediately after the poll went public, P-cola posts the results. In a few minutes, the McGinn campaign starts an email attack on the pollster suggesting a sample size of 65 in Seattle. Then P-cola posts an “update/caveat” saying that there are a lot of questions about the poll and that it looks like the Seattle sample size was only 65.

Also, I think turning newstands into campaign signs for a candidate is basically an in-kind contribution. That’s what the Stranger did and they bragged about it. I’d say the same thing if they had put Dow, Susan, or Joe on the cover.

@10 -

My understanding is that, for a large portion, he plans to use the money allocated from the State for the AWV replacement, even though the state has made clear they will not free that up for anything except an elevated structure or a tunnel. As for a second light-rail agency, he has said he’d put it up to a vote, and I’m assuming would have some plan for how to pay for it by that time.

Mallahan has called for the legislature to allow Seattle to implement an MVET to pay for more transpo projects. MVET’s are good.

@10 -

My understanding is that, for a large portion, he plans to use the money allocated from the State for the AWV replacement, even though the state has made clear they will not free that up for anything except an elevated structure or a tunnel. As for a second light-rail agency, he has said he’d put it up to a vote, and I’m assuming would have some plan for how to pay for it by that time.

Mallahan has called for the legislature to allow Seattle to implement an MVET to pay for more transpo projects. MVET’s are good.

@ 9 – good response, thanks.
@13 – Note that Mallahan wants to not increase the commercial parking tax to pay for the viaduct, while increasing the MVET. This means he wants to lower taxes on people who drive into Seattle to park, while raising taxes on people who live in Seattle; all to pay for the viaduct! Its like he’s running for the City Council of an eastside city. Also remember that the Governor was supposed to give King County MVET authority for increased transit service as part of the tunnel “deal”, yeah, that never happened. MVET’s are only good when they go for good transpo projects.

Gosh, it could be

“Still No Living Wage Specifics from McGinn”

except y’all can’t even pretend to do anything other than do a hatchet job on the next mayor.

Your earlier piece where you editroially inserted harsher comments within a McGinn quote attacking Mallahan still takes the cake, tho.

Pay your dues to the teabagger movement yet? Your tactics are the same.

@ 9 – good response, thanks.
@13 – Note that Mallahan wants to not increase the commercial parking tax to pay for the viaduct, while increasing the MVET. This means he wants to lower taxes on people who drive into Seattle to park, while raising taxes on people who live in Seattle; all to pay for the viaduct! Its like he’s running for the City Council of an eastside city. Also remember that the Governor was supposed to give King County MVET authority for increased transit service as part of the tunnel “deal”, yeah, that never happened. MVET’s are only good when they go for good transpo projects.

Gosh, it could be

“Still No Living Wage Specifics from McGinn”

except y’all can’t even pretend to do anything other than do a hatchet job on the next mayor.

Your earlier piece where you editroially inserted harsher comments within a McGinn quote attacking Mallahan still takes the cake, tho.

Pay your dues to the teabagger movement yet? Your tactics are the same.

The only commitment Mallahan seems to be willing to make re: living wage ordinance is to be open to a “dialogue” about the issue. Not very promising…

The only commitment Mallahan seems to be willing to make re: living wage ordinance is to be open to a “dialogue” about the issue. Not very promising…

@14 re @13 -

and this kind of gets us into an ideological split between many people in this city – outsiders vs. insiders.

Me, I like the idea of lowering the parking tax. For one, I drive to work, and my employer, which is a small business, has to pay that much more for my parking. Lame.

Additionally, I think we should do everything we can to keep people coming to Seattle to shop (and get those sales tax dollars), as opposed to having them go to Bellevue with their fancy free parking.

I read one person, I think it was here, state something along the lines of “we don’t need suburban people with their car-centered lifestyles coming into Seattle anyways”, and I about shit myself.

We DO need those people. They come here, spend their money, and we get the sales taxes. We get the jobs (and retail jobs can be pretty well paying at some of the finer establishments). We get the busy streets, and the mixing of urban and suburban culture. Especially in hard economic times, we should do everything we can to get people in Shoreline to come to Seattle instead of Lynnwood or Bellevue to shop, dine, and catch a movie.

We are still superior on the live music and nightlife front, but I think we should be sucking the money out of these suburbanites as much as possible, and if that means lower overall parking rates to make them not want to go to Bellevue instead, I’m OK with that.

See. Ideological difference.

@14 re @13 -

and this kind of gets us into an ideological split between many people in this city – outsiders vs. insiders.

Me, I like the idea of lowering the parking tax. For one, I drive to work, and my employer, which is a small business, has to pay that much more for my parking. Lame.

Additionally, I think we should do everything we can to keep people coming to Seattle to shop (and get those sales tax dollars), as opposed to having them go to Bellevue with their fancy free parking.

I read one person, I think it was here, state something along the lines of “we don’t need suburban people with their car-centered lifestyles coming into Seattle anyways”, and I about shit myself.

We DO need those people. They come here, spend their money, and we get the sales taxes. We get the jobs (and retail jobs can be pretty well paying at some of the finer establishments). We get the busy streets, and the mixing of urban and suburban culture. Especially in hard economic times, we should do everything we can to get people in Shoreline to come to Seattle instead of Lynnwood or Bellevue to shop, dine, and catch a movie.

We are still superior on the live music and nightlife front, but I think we should be sucking the money out of these suburbanites as much as possible, and if that means lower overall parking rates to make them not want to go to Bellevue instead, I’m OK with that.

See. Ideological difference.

In his defense, I don’t think Mallahan knew the actual meaning of “living wage” when he said it. He probably just thought it sounded good right then.

I doubt Mallahan’s big money corporate backers would like the idea of Seattle taking this on, so if Mallahan has since learned the actual meaning behind what he said, he needs to dodge this one until after the election.

In his defense, I don’t think Mallahan knew the actual meaning of “living wage” when he said it. He probably just thought it sounded good right then.

I doubt Mallahan’s big money corporate backers would like the idea of Seattle taking this on, so if Mallahan has since learned the actual meaning behind what he said, he needs to dodge this one until after the election.

McGinn, as usual, provides a non answer as a real answer, and Publicola lets him off the hook for his flim flam. He supports the concept in other places, just like employers who are progressive support unions at other places. McGinn will “take the lead on exploring living wage ordinances”. That is not the same as “I will support and propose a living wage ordinance”. He won’t say that because small and large businesses would bolt from his support. The living wage ordinance is a pretty standard concept, and is not an amorphus concept.

This makes McGinn a liarbut because he does it while blowing some of you folks, you look past it.

I have been “exploring” voting for McGinn. But that doesn’t mean I will.

McGinn, as usual, provides a non answer as a real answer, and Publicola lets him off the hook for his flim flam. He supports the concept in other places, just like employers who are progressive support unions at other places. McGinn will “take the lead on exploring living wage ordinances”. That is not the same as “I will support and propose a living wage ordinance”. He won’t say that because small and large businesses would bolt from his support. The living wage ordinance is a pretty standard concept, and is not an amorphus concept.

This makes McGinn a liarbut because he does it while blowing some of you folks, you look past it.

I have been “exploring” voting for McGinn. But that doesn’t mean I will.

@12: It came from a McGinn press release, just like most of the “Just In!” stories here about McGinn.

@19, it’s not even what McGinn was quoted as saying on Friday, which was “As the mayor, I will explore that option.”

@18

yeah, an Alinsky trained community organizer (IAF) doesn’t know about the “living wage” campaign

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

You Kewl Kool Aid Kids r so funny!

@12: It came from a McGinn press release, just like most of the “Just In!” stories here about McGinn.

@19, it’s not even what McGinn was quoted as saying on Friday, which was “As the mayor, I will explore that option.”

@18

yeah, an Alinsky trained community organizer (IAF) doesn’t know about the “living wage” campaign

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

You Kewl Kool Aid Kids r so funny!

@22 yes it would be ironic for an actual trained community organizer not to know, but…

@22 yes it would be ironic for an actual trained community organizer not to know, but…

The poll sample size was 400 (PI)

Mallahan saying “living wage” has turned into some imagined topic for Publicola (I watched the video, you are making a hellofa lot more out of what he said than anybody could possibly read between any lines).

Closed systems of taxation for Seattle are wishful thinking, is not possible. People commute in to work. If people from Bellevue want to drive here for a Storm/Seahawk/Mariners/Siff/SAM/whatever and dump their wealth here, good for us. It can lower our local taxes and help build our infrastructure.

I’m curious exactly what everyone here thinks a mayor can do to promote living wages? How are living wage ordinances enforced? My understanding is that they have more to do with contract workers with the city, and have little to no effect on private businesses within a city, which are subject to State or Federal law re: minimum wages.

Should there be a tax break for living wages? What would be defined as a living wage? The median wage? If everyone made that, then the median wage would go up. Gods and clods.

I think that it’s good for the City to only contract with prevailing wage contractors (primarily because that’s another way of saying union workers, and Labor=good), but beyond that, it’s a matter of economic and transportation positions that encourage good jobs to come here. We need more Russell Investments in Seattle. We don’t need Wal-Mart workers making $43k/year.

The poll sample size was 400 (PI)

Mallahan saying “living wage” has turned into some imagined topic for Publicola (I watched the video, you are making a hellofa lot more out of what he said than anybody could possibly read between any lines).

Closed systems of taxation for Seattle are wishful thinking, is not possible. People commute in to work. If people from Bellevue want to drive here for a Storm/Seahawk/Mariners/Siff/SAM/whatever and dump their wealth here, good for us. It can lower our local taxes and help build our infrastructure.

I’m curious exactly what everyone here thinks a mayor can do to promote living wages? How are living wage ordinances enforced? My understanding is that they have more to do with contract workers with the city, and have little to no effect on private businesses within a city, which are subject to State or Federal law re: minimum wages.

Should there be a tax break for living wages? What would be defined as a living wage? The median wage? If everyone made that, then the median wage would go up. Gods and clods.

I think that it’s good for the City to only contract with prevailing wage contractors (primarily because that’s another way of saying union workers, and Labor=good), but beyond that, it’s a matter of economic and transportation positions that encourage good jobs to come here. We need more Russell Investments in Seattle. We don’t need Wal-Mart workers making $43k/year.

@22, knowing about it, and having Publicola imagine that is what he said are two completely different things.
You may be laughing at the wrong person/group.

I think Publicola is doing a great job to expose the specail interest conisparicy on the people of Seattle.

Since i started reading publicola i became more addicted to it.

You guys doing a great job. keep on holding the progressive values of our city

@22, knowing about it, and having Publicola imagine that is what he said are two completely different things.
You may be laughing at the wrong person/group.

I think Publicola is doing a great job to expose the specail interest conisparicy on the people of Seattle.

Since i started reading publicola i became more addicted to it.

You guys doing a great job. keep on holding the progressive values of our city

@26 – I think that guy is on crack.

@27 – stop sucking up to Josh and Erica.

@26 – I think that guy is on crack.

@27 – stop sucking up to Josh and Erica.

@25, Santa Fe is an example
http://www.santafenm.gov/FAQ.ASPx?QID=303

@25, Santa Fe is an example
http://www.santafenm.gov/FAQ.ASPx?QID=303

@29

Okay, so municipalities can do it. The next question – what’s considered a living wage? Their minimum wage is equivalent to $20,488/year. Would Seattle require a minimum wage of $10/hr? $9/hr? What’s the State minimum wage right now, anyway?

And what about people that work for commissions, or get tips, do they revert to the State minimum, or is it the same as the city minimum?

@29

Okay, so municipalities can do it. The next question – what’s considered a living wage? Their minimum wage is equivalent to $20,488/year. Would Seattle require a minimum wage of $10/hr? $9/hr? What’s the State minimum wage right now, anyway?

And what about people that work for commissions, or get tips, do they revert to the State minimum, or is it the same as the city minimum?

@23, the question is not he does not know, but why is Publicola imagining that he was referring to the movement.

Josh wondered, now it is being spun up into some other thing I like to call bullshit. not to get too technical, but that is the term for this conundrum.

@23, the question is not he does not know, but why is Publicola imagining that he was referring to the movement.

Josh wondered, now it is being spun up into some other thing I like to call bullshit. not to get too technical, but that is the term for this conundrum.

@30, that is proof you do not read what Josh writes (j/k).

Mallahan said: “That every citizen of Seattle who chooses to have a job has a job and that that jobe be a living wage job.”

http://publicola.net/?p=16908

A “living wage” is subjective. Most of what I have seen, or read (not much on this) is a wage that allows you to live without some kind of public assistance. That looks like a minimum description, from what I have seen. Up from there you get into a family definition, how many workers in the family, etc.

Worker classifications, how many hours worked, and do kids working after school need a living wage, a a couple repeating questions.
Total compensation is up in the air right now with the healthcare legislation.

@30, that is proof you do not read what Josh writes (j/k).

Mallahan said: “That every citizen of Seattle who chooses to have a job has a job and that that jobe be a living wage job.”

http://publicola.net/?p=16908

A “living wage” is subjective. Most of what I have seen, or read (not much on this) is a wage that allows you to live without some kind of public assistance. That looks like a minimum description, from what I have seen. Up from there you get into a family definition, how many workers in the family, etc.

Worker classifications, how many hours worked, and do kids working after school need a living wage, a a couple repeating questions.
Total compensation is up in the air right now with the healthcare legislation.

My living wage starts out to be $75.00 an hour.

Seriously, how does Mallahan believe he can pull “living wage” off as a campaign promise/debate?

The guy’s campaign is, what, $90,000 in the red!

Unbelievable!

My living wage starts out to be $75.00 an hour.

Seriously, how does Mallahan believe he can pull “living wage” off as a campaign promise/debate?

The guy’s campaign is, what, $90,000 in the red!

Unbelievable!

The IAF orgs (in Western Washington, it’s Sound Alliance) do not necessiarly emphasize living-wage jobs. The training consists of how to activate the members of an institution (congregation, organization, labor union, whatever) and then they individually decide what issue they’re going to work on. The IAFs are not the usual type of organize-around-an-issue model. The “training” can consist of 6 hours; that could indeed be the training that Mallahan talks about. 6 hours of IAF training, then go out and work with a group. There is a specific, much more intensive training for actual organizers. I’d say it was unlikely he took that type.

The election is one week away. Just how realistic is it to expect candidates to delve into issues and come up with detailed answers? If we haven’t heard them by now, we won’t in the next week.

The IAF orgs (in Western Washington, it’s Sound Alliance) do not necessiarly emphasize living-wage jobs. The training consists of how to activate the members of an institution (congregation, organization, labor union, whatever) and then they individually decide what issue they’re going to work on. The IAFs are not the usual type of organize-around-an-issue model. The “training” can consist of 6 hours; that could indeed be the training that Mallahan talks about. 6 hours of IAF training, then go out and work with a group. There is a specific, much more intensive training for actual organizers. I’d say it was unlikely he took that type.

The election is one week away. Just how realistic is it to expect candidates to delve into issues and come up with detailed answers? If we haven’t heard them by now, we won’t in the next week.

@32 -

I read everything that Josh writes. And, FTR, I was actually at the debate when that line was uttered (and it reinforced my hatred of hypothetical questions).

The point I’m getting at is just what you said – what do we consider to be “living wage”? Do people with children have a different minimum wage standard than single individuals, who can live off of considerably less?

I guess my feeling is that the best way to obtain employment with a livable wage is to obtain the requisite information to obtain such employment. If that can’t be done, then how much does an individual really need to survive in our housing market?

@32 -

I read everything that Josh writes. And, FTR, I was actually at the debate when that line was uttered (and it reinforced my hatred of hypothetical questions).

The point I’m getting at is just what you said – what do we consider to be “living wage”? Do people with children have a different minimum wage standard than single individuals, who can live off of considerably less?

I guess my feeling is that the best way to obtain employment with a livable wage is to obtain the requisite information to obtain such employment. If that can’t be done, then how much does an individual really need to survive in our housing market?

Man, I love election season – when the home town comes out for their candidate no matter what they say or don’t say. Did you read McGinn’s quote : “McGinn called right back to say he supports the concept of living wage ordinances around the country and that as mayor he would take the lead on exploring living wage ordinances for Seattle” Okay the guy supports the idea, as long as he doesn’t have to figure out a way to pay for it. Sorry, but for someone who claims they know so much about how the City works you would think McGinn would know that 5 City Council votes will “take the lead on exploring living wage ordinances for Seattle”. What’s worse – Mallahan saying nothing or McGinn blowing campaign smoke up you _ss ? I’ll leave that to the home team to decide.

Man, I love election season – when the home town comes out for their candidate no matter what they say or don’t say. Did you read McGinn’s quote : “McGinn called right back to say he supports the concept of living wage ordinances around the country and that as mayor he would take the lead on exploring living wage ordinances for Seattle” Okay the guy supports the idea, as long as he doesn’t have to figure out a way to pay for it. Sorry, but for someone who claims they know so much about how the City works you would think McGinn would know that 5 City Council votes will “take the lead on exploring living wage ordinances for Seattle”. What’s worse – Mallahan saying nothing or McGinn blowing campaign smoke up you _ss ? I’ll leave that to the home team to decide.

To be fair, it takes more than information or education. Job markets are competitive even when job opportunities are rich, and often the selection process for a position, once you screen for qualifications and hold interviews, is largely capricious and arbitrary. A lot of people can do everything right in every application and interview in today’s job market and still not get a job because each time they lose out to one of several other qualified candidates for some random, even whimsical reason they have absolutely no control over.

Not that I would know, of course ;/

To be fair, it takes more than information or education. Job markets are competitive even when job opportunities are rich, and often the selection process for a position, once you screen for qualifications and hold interviews, is largely capricious and arbitrary. A lot of people can do everything right in every application and interview in today’s job market and still not get a job because each time they lose out to one of several other qualified candidates for some random, even whimsical reason they have absolutely no control over.

Not that I would know, of course ;/

At the YWCA Mayoral Forum, Mallahan defined living wage jobs as $12/hr for an individual and $15/hr for a member of a family.

http://www.vimeo.com/7110708

At the YWCA Mayoral Forum, Mallahan defined living wage jobs as $12/hr for an individual and $15/hr for a member of a family.

http://www.vimeo.com/7110708

@37 -

Oh, believe you me, I definitely understand that. I would say that today’s market should not be considered normal by any stretch of the imagination. My partner, very well qualified in his field, along with solid education, has been unemployed for quite sometime because his field is so competitive. Hell, my field (law) is hurting something fierce, with fewer lawyers retiring, and all sorts of new lawyers coming out of school, and taking paralegal (what I do) jobs, and screwing over my market.

But, in a normal market, when there’s job growth, education is a key component.

But back to the point. Lisa indicates that a living wage for her is $75/hr. That’s just silly. I would think that a single person could, and should, be able to live off of $9/hr. Yeah, they won’t get the sweetest shoes, and they won’t get to go out all the time, but if they make their own food, have a roommate (or live in a smaller apartment), they should be just fine. Hell, if they get on a wait list, they can get into a sweet public housing unit for hella cheap in about a year.

But that’s me. I’ve had the luxury of living, as a single parent with no state subsidies, on not much more than $30k per year, and managed to handle it just fine.

I suppose we then get into the question of “living”. Are we talking about being able to pay rent, utility bills, a phone bill, and groceries, or should we be adding in internet, cable/satellite, a cell phone, going out to clubs, booze, concerts, restaurants, etc.

–>m

@37 -

Oh, believe you me, I definitely understand that. I would say that today’s market should not be considered normal by any stretch of the imagination. My partner, very well qualified in his field, along with solid education, has been unemployed for quite sometime because his field is so competitive. Hell, my field (law) is hurting something fierce, with fewer lawyers retiring, and all sorts of new lawyers coming out of school, and taking paralegal (what I do) jobs, and screwing over my market.

But, in a normal market, when there’s job growth, education is a key component.

But back to the point. Lisa indicates that a living wage for her is $75/hr. That’s just silly. I would think that a single person could, and should, be able to live off of $9/hr. Yeah, they won’t get the sweetest shoes, and they won’t get to go out all the time, but if they make their own food, have a roommate (or live in a smaller apartment), they should be just fine. Hell, if they get on a wait list, they can get into a sweet public housing unit for hella cheap in about a year.

But that’s me. I’ve had the luxury of living, as a single parent with no state subsidies, on not much more than $30k per year, and managed to handle it just fine.

I suppose we then get into the question of “living”. Are we talking about being able to pay rent, utility bills, a phone bill, and groceries, or should we be adding in internet, cable/satellite, a cell phone, going out to clubs, booze, concerts, restaurants, etc.

–>m

A living wage is calculated according to what it costs to adequately cover living costs in a particular community. That doesn’t mean that Lisa can define it for her as being $75/hour (perhaps she was joking). It includes what you need to make in order to pay for transportation, food, childcare, utilities, and pay no more than 1/3 of your income for housing. Currently, a family of three in Seattle (two-bedroom apartment) would need to make a fulltime salary of approx. $19/hour. Two fulltime workers making minimum wage would not make it.

Prof. Dana Pearce of UW Social Work recently came out with a new Self-Sufficiency Standard for Washington State. It’s the best gauge of what’s needed for a living wage.

http://www.selfsufficiencystandard.org/docs/FINAL_WA09%20Press%20Release.pdf

A living wage is calculated according to what it costs to adequately cover living costs in a particular community. That doesn’t mean that Lisa can define it for her as being $75/hour (perhaps she was joking). It includes what you need to make in order to pay for transportation, food, childcare, utilities, and pay no more than 1/3 of your income for housing. Currently, a family of three in Seattle (two-bedroom apartment) would need to make a fulltime salary of approx. $19/hour. Two fulltime workers making minimum wage would not make it.

Prof. Dana Pearce of UW Social Work recently came out with a new Self-Sufficiency Standard for Washington State. It’s the best gauge of what’s needed for a living wage.

http://www.selfsufficiencystandard.org/docs/FINAL_WA09%20Press%20Release.pdf

Sarah68:

That is an excellent study, and brings up one very important issue that needs the federal government to make some changes – the poverty level.

It is completely out of whack that the poverty level in Seattle is the same as the poverty level in Fargo. Completely different places that cannot be compared on any level, yet we have the exact same poverty level. This is a disparity that should and needs to be fixed by the feds. Of course, people like Kent Conrad would never want that to happen, because it would affect various federal programs to his state by diverting more of those funds to larger states with real urban areas.

That being said, the study is focused on a single parent with one school-aged and one preschool-aged child. I’m curious to know if it is inclusive of state or city subsidization programs for child care, child support, or other government assistance available to people up to the 300% poverty line. Or, for that matter, public subsidized housing, etc.

Granted, these have their own issues. Subsidized housing through SHA and CHHIP come with one to two year waits, and the Seattle childcare subsidy comes with a 12-18 month wait (even longer now, I’m sure). Plus the issue with many child care providers having limited slots for DSHS and City subsidized childcare (although there are some places, such as Community Day School Association, that refuse to put limits).

Finally, the health care aspect. Again, Washington is really on the forefront of this, with great programs for children in need. But ultimately, we need comprehensive health care reform. Single payer is still a ways out, but if we can just get this goddamn public option out there, then that will be extraordinarily helpful.

But, back to the point – I think what we need to hear from both candidates (or, at this point, the Mayor-elect, whoever that will be), is what are they going to do to protect funding for childcare subsidies, or expand them (not by wages, but just the total amount), to make this city more livable.

Also, when it comes time to make cuts, what will be first to go? We need to have safe neighborhoods and libraries, and I think it would be good to turn over a lot of the smaller parks over to neighborhood councils to do volunteer cleaning and mowing of as a better way to save money while protecting very important programs that are good for families (after all, a family can check out a DVD for a movie night from a library, but a small green space with a bench does little for the family.

Finally, we need to encourage businesses to come to Seattle, and have solid transportation alternatives so people can get to work without a car. We also should look into adding incentives for grocery stores to open up shop in under-served neighborhoods. This creates good jobs, and provides alternatives to over-priced, high-fat, high-sugar, high-sodium foods.

So yes, wages are important, but there’s a lot of other things to look at to ensure that we have a livable city, while not having to create an unsustainable minimum wage.

IMO, at least.

Sarah68:

That is an excellent study, and brings up one very important issue that needs the federal government to make some changes – the poverty level.

It is completely out of whack that the poverty level in Seattle is the same as the poverty level in Fargo. Completely different places that cannot be compared on any level, yet we have the exact same poverty level. This is a disparity that should and needs to be fixed by the feds. Of course, people like Kent Conrad would never want that to happen, because it would affect various federal programs to his state by diverting more of those funds to larger states with real urban areas.

That being said, the study is focused on a single parent with one school-aged and one preschool-aged child. I’m curious to know if it is inclusive of state or city subsidization programs for child care, child support, or other government assistance available to people up to the 300% poverty line. Or, for that matter, public subsidized housing, etc.

Granted, these have their own issues. Subsidized housing through SHA and CHHIP come with one to two year waits, and the Seattle childcare subsidy comes with a 12-18 month wait (even longer now, I’m sure). Plus the issue with many child care providers having limited slots for DSHS and City subsidized childcare (although there are some places, such as Community Day School Association, that refuse to put limits).

Finally, the health care aspect. Again, Washington is really on the forefront of this, with great programs for children in need. But ultimately, we need comprehensive health care reform. Single payer is still a ways out, but if we can just get this goddamn public option out there, then that will be extraordinarily helpful.

But, back to the point – I think what we need to hear from both candidates (or, at this point, the Mayor-elect, whoever that will be), is what are they going to do to protect funding for childcare subsidies, or expand them (not by wages, but just the total amount), to make this city more livable.

Also, when it comes time to make cuts, what will be first to go? We need to have safe neighborhoods and libraries, and I think it would be good to turn over a lot of the smaller parks over to neighborhood councils to do volunteer cleaning and mowing of as a better way to save money while protecting very important programs that are good for families (after all, a family can check out a DVD for a movie night from a library, but a small green space with a bench does little for the family.

Finally, we need to encourage businesses to come to Seattle, and have solid transportation alternatives so people can get to work without a car. We also should look into adding incentives for grocery stores to open up shop in under-served neighborhoods. This creates good jobs, and provides alternatives to over-priced, high-fat, high-sugar, high-sodium foods.

So yes, wages are important, but there’s a lot of other things to look at to ensure that we have a livable city, while not having to create an unsustainable minimum wage.

IMO, at least.

@22:

an Alinsky trained community organizer

So this question keeps coming up. If Mallahan really did get trained, what the hell has he done with it? Did he do anything with it in Chicago? And why is there absolutely no trace of Alinsky methodology in his campaign? Does he not believe in it? Or not know how to use it? Will he practice it as mayor?

Odd, that McGinn’s campaign actually seems to bear more resemblance to a community organization effort than the trained organizer’s.

@22:

an Alinsky trained community organizer

So this question keeps coming up. If Mallahan really did get trained, what the hell has he done with it? Did he do anything with it in Chicago? And why is there absolutely no trace of Alinsky methodology in his campaign? Does he not believe in it? Or not know how to use it? Will he practice it as mayor?

Odd, that McGinn’s campaign actually seems to bear more resemblance to a community organization effort than the trained organizer’s.

He said the other day in my hearing that he worked as an organizer in Chicago, but it wasn’t a situation where we could challenge him. He was visiting neighborhood services for homeless people and I just didn’t want to pin him down in that setting.

Which makes me complicit in not getting good information, I guess.

He said the other day in my hearing that he worked as an organizer in Chicago, but it wasn’t a situation where we could challenge him. He was visiting neighborhood services for homeless people and I just didn’t want to pin him down in that setting.

Which makes me complicit in not getting good information, I guess.

Michael M: The self-sufficiency study is based on the family having to pay for stuff in a normal manner — i.e., no public benefits are factored in.

The FPL is so horribly low (basically $10K/yr for one person and $18K/yr for 3 people) that it’s criminal that it is used as a gauge for benefits. And the FPL is based on the need for food only, so it’s artificially even lower. The cost of housing (which differs in all areas of the country) is NOT factored into the FPL.

Michael M: The self-sufficiency study is based on the family having to pay for stuff in a normal manner — i.e., no public benefits are factored in.

The FPL is so horribly low (basically $10K/yr for one person and $18K/yr for 3 people) that it’s criminal that it is used as a gauge for benefits. And the FPL is based on the need for food only, so it’s artificially even lower. The cost of housing (which differs in all areas of the country) is NOT factored into the FPL.

@42 That’s because McGinn is an actual community organizer – he doesn’t have to keep saying it to make it true. He has about 15 years organizing experience in Seattle alone and he is excellent.

His ability to manage, organize and inspire have allowed his campaign to stay out of debt and keep up with Mallahan’s massively over-expensive campaign (Mallahan = $666,000 spent so far and still $106,000 in debt)

@42 That’s because McGinn is an actual community organizer – he doesn’t have to keep saying it to make it true. He has about 15 years organizing experience in Seattle alone and he is excellent.

His ability to manage, organize and inspire have allowed his campaign to stay out of debt and keep up with Mallahan’s massively over-expensive campaign (Mallahan = $666,000 spent so far and still $106,000 in debt)

Right now, folks, I’m skating by on less than $1100 a month, paying for a studio apartment and keeping all my bills current. But I’m also running a credit balance to cover additional expenses.

I’m an office temp living on my own. Two years ago, I would have considered $12 an hour substandard. But after having to cull all my excesses as the recession hit hard, I now find that $12 an hour actually wouldn’t be so bad. It wouldn’t be great, but it would cover my needs. According to the formula Sarah mentioned in #40, currently I’d only need about $24K-25K a year. Granted, I’m not all that materialistic, but provided affordable housing, someone else probably wouldn’t need much more than that.

So when someone says they absolutely need more than that amount, and they don’t have any kids, medical problems or other serious expenses, the first thing I think to ask is, “What are you spending your money on?” The two most obvious answers are either a) they live in an expensive apartment, which would inidcate that affordable housing is a bigger issue than a living wage ordinance or b) they own a motor vehicle, because they live far from town and have to drive so much because they don’t like transit.

Right now, folks, I’m skating by on less than $1100 a month, paying for a studio apartment and keeping all my bills current. But I’m also running a credit balance to cover additional expenses.

I’m an office temp living on my own. Two years ago, I would have considered $12 an hour substandard. But after having to cull all my excesses as the recession hit hard, I now find that $12 an hour actually wouldn’t be so bad. It wouldn’t be great, but it would cover my needs. According to the formula Sarah mentioned in #40, currently I’d only need about $24K-25K a year. Granted, I’m not all that materialistic, but provided affordable housing, someone else probably wouldn’t need much more than that.

So when someone says they absolutely need more than that amount, and they don’t have any kids, medical problems or other serious expenses, the first thing I think to ask is, “What are you spending your money on?” The two most obvious answers are either a) they live in an expensive apartment, which would inidcate that affordable housing is a bigger issue than a living wage ordinance or b) they own a motor vehicle, because they live far from town and have to drive so much because they don’t like transit.

@44 – Sarah68

So with that in mind (the study only factoring in what’s needed with no public assistance), we dive into the next thing, which is, aside from a living wage ordinance, what else can the city do to make the city more affordable for families. (I’m not going to touch the FPL issue any further, because I think we’re 100% in agreement there).

I personally believe that there has to be a happy balance. Passing a “living wage ordinance” is one thing, but making it too high, and there could be an adverse effect. Regardless of where the majority of jobs fit into the pay range in this city, having the stigma of being considered “anti-business” is not good for bringing businesses in.

And because the “living wage” is different for young and single baristas than it is for single mothers of two children as described in the report…

I guess the big question is what do you think the solution should be, and how should the solution be paid for?

@44 – Sarah68

So with that in mind (the study only factoring in what’s needed with no public assistance), we dive into the next thing, which is, aside from a living wage ordinance, what else can the city do to make the city more affordable for families. (I’m not going to touch the FPL issue any further, because I think we’re 100% in agreement there).

I personally believe that there has to be a happy balance. Passing a “living wage ordinance” is one thing, but making it too high, and there could be an adverse effect. Regardless of where the majority of jobs fit into the pay range in this city, having the stigma of being considered “anti-business” is not good for bringing businesses in.

And because the “living wage” is different for young and single baristas than it is for single mothers of two children as described in the report…

I guess the big question is what do you think the solution should be, and how should the solution be paid for?

@42

If you, are any of the other kewl kool aid kids for mcginn that dominate this site, had a clue you’d know –

one of the things IAF trains their people to do is take responsibility for themselves &, if so inclined, run for office.

But I’ll bet you’ve never heered of, or know anything about, IAF or Alinsky, do you?

@42

If you, are any of the other kewl kool aid kids for mcginn that dominate this site, had a clue you’d know –

one of the things IAF trains their people to do is take responsibility for themselves &, if so inclined, run for office.

But I’ll bet you’ve never heered of, or know anything about, IAF or Alinsky, do you?

@48: If you actually read/understood my post, you’d realize that I’m quite familiar w/Alinsky and IAF. Have a 40 year old, very well thumbed copy of Rules for Radicals on my bookshelf. My point clearly is that Mallahan’s campaign shows no traces of community organizing principles, which is quite odd.

@48: If you actually read/understood my post, you’d realize that I’m quite familiar w/Alinsky and IAF. Have a 40 year old, very well thumbed copy of Rules for Radicals on my bookshelf. My point clearly is that Mallahan’s campaign shows no traces of community organizing principles, which is quite odd.

@49

I find it’s just easier to ignore chicagoexpat. While he may think he’s helping the cause of my main man Mallahan, he’s doing more damage than I am. And that’s not good.

@49

I find it’s just easier to ignore chicagoexpat. While he may think he’s helping the cause of my main man Mallahan, he’s doing more damage than I am. And that’s not good.

@2 -

Specifically – The Stranger or Publicola (a/k/a the Propaganda Arm of the McGinn campaign) call McGinn, get an answer straight away. How quick is his campaign to respond to people that voice (valid) concerns about him?