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TechNerd Interviews McGinn

This was originally posted at noon today.

[Editor's Note: From day one of his campaign for mayor, Mike McGinn has been talking about building a citywide broadband network.

At at time when voters are concerned about crime and the recession, many found McGinn's pitch a bit "yuppie."

However, McGinn has not backed away from this platform plank:

"Access to the Internet is access to the economy, access to the community, in some cases access to democracy, access to issues," McGinn told PubliCola's TechNerd this week in an in-depth interview about his broadband ideas. "It's an essential [piece of] infrastructure to compete in a world economy.”

We asked Glenn Fleishman, aka TechNerd, to grill McGinn about his high-tech agenda. Here’s Fleishman’s report.]

It’s odd that the Seattle mayoral candidate who has taken a sabbatical from a telecommunications job, Joe Mallahan, isn’t the one pushing a city-wide broadband plan. Instead, the ostensibly green office seeker, Mike McGinn, pumps the idea that everyone in the city deserves fiber to the door.

In an interview with TechNerd, McGinn leaned on the city’s 2005 recommendations for a city-wide buildout, and a 2007 feasibility study conducted by an outside firm. That study determined that just about $450 million raised in a revenue bond issue, where only proceeds from the service would go to bondholders, and a relatively low subscription rate by residents would allow successful reployment. A good hunk of costs were relative to each subscriber who wanted service, and not incurred until that subscriber was signed up.

The idea of fiber to every home would ensure universal high-speed broadband to anyone who wanted it (at a market price), as opposed to today’s situation in Seattle in which some neighborhoods and pieces of neighborhoods have a single provider or networks that can only achieve speeds considered fast 10 years ago. (Qwest service to my home near the Montlake Bridge was, earlier this year, typically 1 Mbps down. I had a similar rate from them in 1997. Comcast, for about the same price, brings me “up to 15 Mbps” service that I’ve often clocked at 25 Mbps.)

In a recent town hall meeting in Beacon Hill, McGinn said, “Several people were like, it’s crazy, I’m trying to do business here—I can’t do business because of our Internet connection.” Complaints are rife in that neighborhood especially, but you can easily find broadband holes all over the city, where neither cable nor DSL can offer decent speeds.

But is the fact that people can “only” get slow Internet connections enough to float $450 million in bonds, however financed? McGinn says that there are two separate reasons to push for universal availability. “Access to the Internet is access to the economy, access to the community, in some cases access to democracy, access to issues,” he says. But it’s also about the bottom line: “It’s an essential [piece of] infrastructure to compete in a world economy.”

Because the network would likely be built by Seattle City Light—just like Tacoma Power created its Click! mixed fiber and coaxial cable network—McGinn noted that there’s a potential for incorporating smart electric grid and meter technology for which federal stimulus funds could be available. “There are reasons for Seattle City Light to use a fiber-optic network to start building a smart network for homes,” he said.

Installing fiber-optic cabling to every customer who wants one is a bit of the holy grail of the broadband world. A single strand of glass cable can carry gigabits per second using expensive devices on either end. To the home, 50 to 100 Mbps is trivial, and far higher than the typically available rates over DSL or cable.

Fiber also allows the so-called “triple play”: One cable bringing high-quality broadband, video (high definition and multiple streams at once), and voice. And fiber is future proofed. Every year, the cost of adapters—ones that convert the optical pulses into locally networkable data—drops, and the speed that the same fiber strand can carry goes up. In lab testing, some researchers have pushed hundreds of gigabits per second over a strand. There will be a lot of room to grow a network faster only by upgrading equipment at the ends.

You won’t find many in the telecom world who think that fiber to the home (FTTH, as its known) is a bad idea. Rather, cost is the issue. While Verizon has been running FTTH in its markets, and is very happy with the resulting fees, return on investment, and customer loyalty. Verizon offers FTTH under the name FiOS; it’s available in some of the old GTE territory in Oregon and Washington that Verizon absorbed when it was created several years ago. Verizon spends as much as thousands of dollars per house to bring in fiber. (The Seattle feasiblity study puts the cost far lower, typically in the few-hundred dollar range, because of where utility poles and other infrastructure already exist.)

AT&T and Qwest have pursued a cheaper strategy called fiber to the node (FTTN). In this scenario, the companies run fiber close to clusters of houses, and then use advanced flavors of DSL over copper wire that work only over short distances to get far higher speeds. AT&T can bring 25 to 50 Mbps over these short runs, and it costs far less.

Comcast and other cable companies offer something like FTTN, in some cases having bought fiber years ago to neighborhood distribution points. But coaxial cables used originally for television can carry enormously more data than pairs of copper telephone wire, and at far greater distances without losing signal strength. It took until 2009, however, before Comcast and other cable companies were able to deploy a new standard that can offer speeds that match today’s fiber-based rates from Verizon.

Meanwhile, unrelated to these efforts, Clearwire, AT&T, and Verizon are building out wireless networks using fourth-generation (4G) technology that will allow somewhere between 4 and 10 Mbps downstream (and 1 to 4 Mbps upstream) when fully deployed. Clearwire’s Clear service will come to Seattle next year, an upgrade to its current low-speed offering; and AT&T and Verizon have plans that will bring its flavor to this market most likely by 2011.

So the question that needs to be asked is: Assuming that McGinn gets the nod in November as mayor, the city revises the plan, creates a bond issue, gets the money, and starts building the network—is that network still needed?

Won’t private enterprise just fill in the holes that exist today? If there’s a pocket full of money and a desire to spend it, like in Beacon Hill, doesn’t capitalism become a vacuum cleaner to suck that money away?

That part is hazy. Qwest currently has no interest in building out fiber to the home, and it’s had a very slow deployment of its neighborhood fiber. “Qwest doesn’t really appear to have the capacity to do it,” McGinn said. Telecom firms are all hurting, and Qwest is still suffering from disastrous leadership during the dotcom bubble and terrible decisions made in that period. The company is also the last major Baby Bell left standing that has no wireless phone business, and must rely on shrinking landline and long-distance revenue derived from a 14-state market that includes huge numbers of expensive-to-serve rural customers.

Comcast, while increasing its speeds and offering bundling deals, has an effective monopoly in the parts of Seattle it serves, because Qwest can’t match its speeds or services; Qwest doesn’t have its own video component of the triple play, but defers to a satellite TV partner. Comcast can only deploy service in the areas of town for which it has a franchise, too. Broadstripe serves the Central District, and it’s currently undergoing a reorganization via Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The company says it’s sped up its network this year.

That lack of competition “leaves an opening, the need to push it through,” McGinn said.

There have been many concerns raised about public entities, especially those with regulatory power over competitors–such as Seattle’s cable franchise board that controls access to public rights of way and facilities–entering the broadband market. But most of those concerns imply that the market will solve the problem. However, with no requirement for building out service to all customers, or having the same level of service available, an efficient market won’t provide universal coverage.

Public broadband relies, usually, on bondholders getting a specific rate of return rather than shareholders demanding higher rates. Thus, public networks can be designed to be available to every resident and business, even though on average the service recovers costs and ekes out a small return above that (for rainy days or to finance additional efforts).

In Lafayette, Louisiana, the city fought a multi-year battle against incumbent providers for the right to build its own fiber network. It won, and the FTTH network went live for the first phrase of the city–with about a fifth the households of Seattle–in February.

The reason for the fight wasn’t about the right to 500 channels, about low prices, or about the city wanting a piece of the action. It was about the city’s desire to have 21st century technology in place reaching every person, company, and institution.

In the end, the debate may wind up being something akin to the public option in healthcare. Many Seattle households lack coverage, get substandard coverage, or can’t afford coverage. Unlike healthcare, however, the city’s goal wouldn’t be to spend money, but to conserve money for both residents and itself—and piggyback some municipal purposes on top.

McGinn notes, “We have the capacity to do it and we should.” It might be a tough sell in this climate, and the feasibility study has a lot of variables that have changed in two years.

But look at Tacoma. In the mid-1990s, US West could take 18 months—18 months!—to provide a new phone line, and TCI had no interest in upgrading the infrastructure for cable and broadband in the city boundaries, focusing on wealthier suburbs. Does anyone think that the city would be what it is today had the Click! Network not transformed a developing nation infrastructure into what’s acknowledged as one of the most-wired cities in the country?


  • citizen

    It’s part of making the city livable and workable for all of us; part of his broader vision of livable urbanism. You have to provide transit, bike and ped improvements, you have to fix the schools, you have to have a good infrastructure for job creation and for everything living in a city means — more choices.

    this is the Jane Jacobs issue of the 21st Century. A rich menu of choices is what cities are about, and the public broadband notion supports that because it’s a gateway to everything else. Just like public transit and public schools.

  • citizen

    It’s part of making the city livable and workable for all of us; part of his broader vision of livable urbanism. You have to provide transit, bike and ped improvements, you have to fix the schools, you have to have a good infrastructure for job creation and for everything living in a city means — more choices.

    this is the Jane Jacobs issue of the 21st Century. A rich menu of choices is what cities are about, and the public broadband notion supports that because it’s a gateway to everything else. Just like public transit and public schools.

  • insider baseball

    Why so much coverage on the mayor’s race and so much less coverage on the KC Exec race?

    Are you assuming that your readers are all progressive dems? Fuse recently sent out a poll to their members stating that both Mayor candidates have progressives that strongly support their guy and strongly oppose the other guy. I guess we are just assuming Publicola readers are ALL supporting Dow? I am not saying you don’t cover the race…just seems like WAAAYYYYYY more coverage on Mayor’s race.

    Oh, and are there any city council races? Are we just assuming Licata, Bagshaw and O’Brien are going to win? That seems to be the conventional wisdom. Is that why so little coverage?

    I guess whenever you throw something out about either mayor candidate you instantly have 30 plus comments.

  • insider baseball

    Why so much coverage on the mayor’s race and so much less coverage on the KC Exec race?

    Are you assuming that your readers are all progressive dems? Fuse recently sent out a poll to their members stating that both Mayor candidates have progressives that strongly support their guy and strongly oppose the other guy. I guess we are just assuming Publicola readers are ALL supporting Dow? I am not saying you don’t cover the race…just seems like WAAAYYYYYY more coverage on Mayor’s race.

    Oh, and are there any city council races? Are we just assuming Licata, Bagshaw and O’Brien are going to win? That seems to be the conventional wisdom. Is that why so little coverage?

    I guess whenever you throw something out about either mayor candidate you instantly have 30 plus comments.

  • johnmocha

    Has anyone added up the cost of all the promises that McGinn is making? How are we going really going to pay for all his largess? While I’m glad to get rid of Nickels I’m concerned that – if elected – McGinn will drive out any reasonable taxpayer and drive Seattle into the abyss.

    While I agree that infrastructure is core to driving business opportunity and a long term tax base McGinn doesn’t tie his spending to creation of good jobs, rather it seems tied to getting votes.

    That said, if this does happen, start on the Southend where opportunity is wanting.

  • johnmocha

    Has anyone added up the cost of all the promises that McGinn is making? How are we going really going to pay for all his largess? While I’m glad to get rid of Nickels I’m concerned that – if elected – McGinn will drive out any reasonable taxpayer and drive Seattle into the abyss.

    While I agree that infrastructure is core to driving business opportunity and a long term tax base McGinn doesn’t tie his spending to creation of good jobs, rather it seems tied to getting votes.

    That said, if this does happen, start on the Southend where opportunity is wanting.

  • Ryno

    McGinn’s promises add up to less than the cost of the tunnel, if that’s what you’re getting at. And this one would pay for itself… entirely funded by those that sign up for municipal internet, no tax dollars required.

  • Ryno

    McGinn’s promises add up to less than the cost of the tunnel, if that’s what you’re getting at. And this one would pay for itself… entirely funded by those that sign up for municipal internet, no tax dollars required.

  • Chris Stefan

    A public broadband network to every corner of the city not only provides a service residents and businesses can use but offers a benefit to the city and other public entities.

    The city can use the network to connect every city owned facility and office including libraries and neighborhood service centers. The network can be used not just for reading City Light meters but water meters as well. The network can be used to connect traffic cameras and traffic lights to a central traffic management system.

    Excess capacity on the network could be leased to the School District, King County, Port of Seattle, Sound Transit, and State of Washington as well.

  • Chris Stefan

    A public broadband network to every corner of the city not only provides a service residents and businesses can use but offers a benefit to the city and other public entities.

    The city can use the network to connect every city owned facility and office including libraries and neighborhood service centers. The network can be used not just for reading City Light meters but water meters as well. The network can be used to connect traffic cameras and traffic lights to a central traffic management system.

    Excess capacity on the network could be leased to the School District, King County, Port of Seattle, Sound Transit, and State of Washington as well.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr.Baker

    Muni internet is nothing new, the answers and issues are just flavored and detailed slightly differently.

    Won’t private enterprise just fill in the holes that exist today?

    The answer was no 20 years ago in Texas rural, it is today, and will be no tomorrow.

    Over the past couple years, whenever I had to write a paper for one of my COM classes, I would return to this subject.

    I understand the desire to string line, and I think that is the better long term solution, I had thought that the ISP could be a function of the Seattle Public Library, and not some commercial business. The library is one of the few government entities that has a vested interest in information management, and had demonstrated desire and ability to protect civil liberties.
    Line already runs through the city, through the library. Libraries are public information nodes already serving thousands of citizens pulp and internet use.
    And, at some point the public online persona will get split into two, private/public, but that is a different issue and potential byproduct of turning a service into a public universal utility. (your house numbers are not personal identification, neither is address and zip)

    Anyway, excellent story, and you might want to mention how much Comcast is paying Seattle, and when the contract ends.

  • sarah68

    “The idea of fiber to every home would ensure universal high-speed broadband to anyone who wanted it (at a market price), as opposed to today’s situation in Seattle in which some neighborhoods and pieces of neighborhoods have a single provider or networks that can only achieve speeds considered fast 10 years ago.”

    Wow, and for only $450 million. Of course, people would be paying MARKET RATE for it. But we know that everyone can afford that, right? And that’s on the top of the list of what Seattle needs — not housing, not human services, not streets fixed?

    “A rich menu of choices” is not what a city is about. A city is a place where people with choices and WITHOUT choices live, and a good city enables the latter to live a little better. High-speed broadband in every home won’t make a difference to those who don’t have a home.

  • sarah68

    “The idea of fiber to every home would ensure universal high-speed broadband to anyone who wanted it (at a market price), as opposed to today’s situation in Seattle in which some neighborhoods and pieces of neighborhoods have a single provider or networks that can only achieve speeds considered fast 10 years ago.”

    Wow, and for only $450 million. Of course, people would be paying MARKET RATE for it. But we know that everyone can afford that, right? And that’s on the top of the list of what Seattle needs — not housing, not human services, not streets fixed?

    “A rich menu of choices” is not what a city is about. A city is a place where people with choices and WITHOUT choices live, and a good city enables the latter to live a little better. High-speed broadband in every home won’t make a difference to those who don’t have a home.

  • Chris Stefan

    @7 “Cheap public power in every home won’t make a difference to those who don’t have a home.”

    And yet we have City Light.

  • Chris Stefan

    @7 “Cheap public power in every home won’t make a difference to those who don’t have a home.”

    And yet we have City Light.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @7: It’s not $450 million precisely. The funding mechanism that I allude to from the feasibility study recommended selling revenue bonds that would be paid only out of revenue from the service. Bondholders get a slightly higher rate of return for these bonds, as opposed to ones backed by the municipality. The finances are more closely examined, one hopes.

    Of course, if the project foundered and bondholders weren’t being paid, the city might have to intervene (a moral hazard), and that’s an entirely different long argument for and against.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @7: It’s not $450 million precisely. The funding mechanism that I allude to from the feasibility study recommended selling revenue bonds that would be paid only out of revenue from the service. Bondholders get a slightly higher rate of return for these bonds, as opposed to ones backed by the municipality. The finances are more closely examined, one hopes.

    Of course, if the project foundered and bondholders weren’t being paid, the city might have to intervene (a moral hazard), and that’s an entirely different long argument for and against.

  • sarah68

    @8: You’re comparing electricity to high-speed broadband? How, in terms of necessity? Not really.

  • sarah68

    @8: You’re comparing electricity to high-speed broadband? How, in terms of necessity? Not really.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr.Baker

    More tech workers, engineers, not driving.

    The Brookline MA muni-wifi is an interesting story, as well. They started out just wanting better cell phone service, and ended up with a mesh network.

    http://www.brooklinema.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=275&Itemid=242
    I see they have updated their web page.

    Comcast and Qwerst fight this all the time, and one of the few court accepted reasons for muni communications has been public safety, and education. That is why I go back to the library. It is a shared public service competing with commercial book sellers.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr.Baker

    More tech workers, engineers, not driving.

    The Brookline MA muni-wifi is an interesting story, as well. They started out just wanting better cell phone service, and ended up with a mesh network.

    http://www.brooklinema.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=275&Itemid=242
    I see they have updated their web page.

    Comcast and Qwerst fight this all the time, and one of the few court accepted reasons for muni communications has been public safety, and education. That is why I go back to the library. It is a shared public service competing with commercial book sellers.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr.Baker

    City code says you have to have electricity.

    A Utility is an opinion shared by many, agreed to for the common good.
    Public school, garbage collection, etc.
    One utility is more important than another, clean water, power, but no less a utility.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr.Baker

    City code says you have to have electricity.

    A Utility is an opinion shared by many, agreed to for the common good.
    Public school, garbage collection, etc.
    One utility is more important than another, clean water, power, but no less a utility.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    Re @7, @8, and later: One of the points worth debating, that’s usually co-opted by telecom paid thinktanks, is whether Internet service should be a utility. Can the average kid or adult manage to compete in the local economy without it? Can kids keep up in school today cut off most of the day from vast wells of information?

    Or is it all extra? Is this really about bringing 500 or 5,000,000 channels of TV to the home, and the Internet is purely entertainment, too?

  • Glenn Fleishman

    Re @7, @8, and later: One of the points worth debating, that’s usually co-opted by telecom paid thinktanks, is whether Internet service should be a utility. Can the average kid or adult manage to compete in the local economy without it? Can kids keep up in school today cut off most of the day from vast wells of information?

    Or is it all extra? Is this really about bringing 500 or 5,000,000 channels of TV to the home, and the Internet is purely entertainment, too?

  • Chris Stefan

    @10
    Broadband access is no less important today than the telephone was 75 years ago. In addition to electrifying rural America the REA brought telephone service as well.

  • Chris Stefan

    @10
    Broadband access is no less important today than the telephone was 75 years ago. In addition to electrifying rural America the REA brought telephone service as well.

  • http://beaconhill.seattle.wa.us/ BHJason

    Broadstripe did increase their speeds earlier this year, but the only time you could take advantage of it was between 4 and 6am. Check out these download speed graphs:

    http://bit.ly/iSloj

    After reporting this issue to them and attempting to follow up on it, they appear to have rolled back their internet speeds to the old levels; this has had only a small effect on the actual achievable download rates however.

  • http://beaconhill.seattle.wa.us BHJason

    Broadstripe did increase their speeds earlier this year, but the only time you could take advantage of it was between 4 and 6am. Check out these download speed graphs:

    http://bit.ly/iSloj

    After reporting this issue to them and attempting to follow up on it, they appear to have rolled back their internet speeds to the old levels; this has had only a small effect on the actual achievable download rates however.

  • McGinn will cost you big $$$

    @4

    $ 500 million for transit
    $ 450 million for broadband
    +$2,200 million ($2.2 billion) for street option)
    =======
    $3,150 in new taxes proposed by McGinn

    Anyone who says McGinn is the candidate in favor of a more affordable Seattle is flat out wrong. He is a disaster except for the limosine greens (who have made their coin and could care less whether SE Seattle moves to Federal Way) and the sycophantic new urbanists looking for patronage jobs in his administration.

    You could argue $450M in broadband will be paid for by fees, but the market has taught us you can’t just build fiber house by house. You have to wire whole sections, upsell the area, and then install the last few feet to the door. The IDEA may be that bondholders get paid by revenue, but Seattle taxpayers will be legally on the hook. Odd, that’s one of his arguments against the tunnel.

    The street option is not only bad for our city’s #1 tourist attraction (Pike Place Market), the waterfront, and our economy it is bad for our pocketbooks. No way will the state kick in $2.3B for a street option, so Seattle will need to foot the remainder of the $3.5B the street option will cost by itself.

    Anti-tax people who voted for McGinn and O’Brien got fleeced.

  • McGinn will cost you big $$$

    @4

    $ 500 million for transit
    $ 450 million for broadband
    +$2,200 million ($2.2 billion) for street option)
    =======
    $3,150 in new taxes proposed by McGinn

    Anyone who says McGinn is the candidate in favor of a more affordable Seattle is flat out wrong. He is a disaster except for the limosine greens (who have made their coin and could care less whether SE Seattle moves to Federal Way) and the sycophantic new urbanists looking for patronage jobs in his administration.

    You could argue $450M in broadband will be paid for by fees, but the market has taught us you can’t just build fiber house by house. You have to wire whole sections, upsell the area, and then install the last few feet to the door. The IDEA may be that bondholders get paid by revenue, but Seattle taxpayers will be legally on the hook. Odd, that’s one of his arguments against the tunnel.

    The street option is not only bad for our city’s #1 tourist attraction (Pike Place Market), the waterfront, and our economy it is bad for our pocketbooks. No way will the state kick in $2.3B for a street option, so Seattle will need to foot the remainder of the $3.5B the street option will cost by itself.

    Anti-tax people who voted for McGinn and O’Brien got fleeced.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @16: “You could argue $450M in broadband will be paid for by fees…”

    Or you could read the article above, and see that what’s proposed is selling revenue bonds which wouldn’t involve general funds or a tax increase at all. (Using the bond authority does, of course, reduce the ability to raise money in the future in some cases.)

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @16: “You could argue $450M in broadband will be paid for by fees…”

    Or you could read the article above, and see that what’s proposed is selling revenue bonds which wouldn’t involve general funds or a tax increase at all. (Using the bond authority does, of course, reduce the ability to raise money in the future in some cases.)

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com/ joshuadf

    Click! and other examples actually ARE the electric system–it’s more or less the smart grid infrastructure being build out with capacity to also offer broadband. To me this is an extremely minor campaign issue, but a complete no-brainer given we’ve got City Light.

    Oh, and Glenn, you know better: WiMax isn’t the same as 4G.

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com joshuadf

    Click! and other examples actually ARE the electric system–it’s more or less the smart grid infrastructure being build out with capacity to also offer broadband. To me this is an extremely minor campaign issue, but a complete no-brainer given we’ve got City Light.

    Oh, and Glenn, you know better: WiMax isn’t the same as 4G.

  • Mr. Skeptical

    Here’s what I don’t get. Lots of people moan that City services suck, and the public sector is incompetent. SDOT with the snowstorms and basic road construction. City Light with streetlights. etc. etc.

    Yet they think the City can run a really great ISP?

    Where is this optimism coming from?

  • Mr. Skeptical

    Here’s what I don’t get. Lots of people moan that City services suck, and the public sector is incompetent. SDOT with the snowstorms and basic road construction. City Light with streetlights. etc. etc.

    Yet they think the City can run a really great ISP?

    Where is this optimism coming from?

  • sarah68

    I realize my comments are so low-tech they’re Luddite, but regardless:

    @13: You say “Can kids keep up in school today cut off most of the day from vast wells of information?”

    Well, there are teachers there, and there are books. Just as there has always been. Or are we planning on dispensing with teachers and textbooks?

    What the kids are usually doing when they get home from school (or at school on lunch) is Facebook, ad infinitum. Vast wells of information, ha.

  • sarah68

    I realize my comments are so low-tech they’re Luddite, but regardless:

    @13: You say “Can kids keep up in school today cut off most of the day from vast wells of information?”

    Well, there are teachers there, and there are books. Just as there has always been. Or are we planning on dispensing with teachers and textbooks?

    What the kids are usually doing when they get home from school (or at school on lunch) is Facebook, ad infinitum. Vast wells of information, ha.

  • Melissa Jonas

    @20 Glenn’s point in #13 hits what is important to me about this conversation. The digital divide is creating the equivalent of a wrong side of the tracks: the wired vs the unwired. Not having internet at home is a sign of being poor and means you will not be competitive with your peers.

    Not having a Facebook account makes you an outcast. Maybe it’s shallow, but that’s how kids are–shallow. Social media is only growing, and we are only going to become more identified with the sites we visit (like Publicola).

    Creating an internet service utility means making a commitment that all families will have access to what has become a primary necessity for success. Every kid who graduates from high school should be able to look online for jobs, complete an online application, search the news, etc. They’re not going to learn this from books, or solely from teachers and computer labs. They need to practice at home.

    They also need supervised opportunities to practice basic internet safety: don’t click on the flashing bunny, don’t give a stranger your home address–all the stuff we learn by observation and practice.

    I don’t think a broadband utility is even close to a #1 priority for the next year, but it is an important social justice issue. It’s also very “yuppie”–home based professionals that rely on the internet will choose to live in neighborhoods with good internet access. Southeast Seattle does not–and we have fewer upper middle class professionals buying homes and making purchases in our neighborhoods because of it.

  • Melissa Jonas

    @20 Glenn’s point in #13 hits what is important to me about this conversation. The digital divide is creating the equivalent of a wrong side of the tracks: the wired vs the unwired. Not having internet at home is a sign of being poor and means you will not be competitive with your peers.

    Not having a Facebook account makes you an outcast. Maybe it’s shallow, but that’s how kids are–shallow. Social media is only growing, and we are only going to become more identified with the sites we visit (like Publicola).

    Creating an internet service utility means making a commitment that all families will have access to what has become a primary necessity for success. Every kid who graduates from high school should be able to look online for jobs, complete an online application, search the news, etc. They’re not going to learn this from books, or solely from teachers and computer labs. They need to practice at home.

    They also need supervised opportunities to practice basic internet safety: don’t click on the flashing bunny, don’t give a stranger your home address–all the stuff we learn by observation and practice.

    I don’t think a broadband utility is even close to a #1 priority for the next year, but it is an important social justice issue. It’s also very “yuppie”–home based professionals that rely on the internet will choose to live in neighborhoods with good internet access. Southeast Seattle does not–and we have fewer upper middle class professionals buying homes and making purchases in our neighborhoods because of it.

  • MarkS

    Good article. Let me offer a discalimer up front. I am a Verizon employee.

    Verizon is currrently offering Fiber to the premises in selected areas of the Puget Sound region. If they can why can’t Qwest?

    With Seattle’s higher density it would cost them less.

    As the author also points out many wireless companies will be offering 4G soon (I believe Clearwire already does). This offers amazing Broadband speed, both data and video.

    In a nutshell a lot of changes are coming soon so McGinn’s $450 million proposal is probably unnecessary.

  • MarkS

    Good article. Let me offer a discalimer up front. I am a Verizon employee.

    Verizon is currrently offering Fiber to the premises in selected areas of the Puget Sound region. If they can why can’t Qwest?

    With Seattle’s higher density it would cost them less.

    As the author also points out many wireless companies will be offering 4G soon (I believe Clearwire already does). This offers amazing Broadband speed, both data and video.

    In a nutshell a lot of changes are coming soon so McGinn’s $450 million proposal is probably unnecessary.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @19: WiMax is 4G. It meets both the spirit and letter of 4G services. There’s been no dispute in the industry over whether it’s 4G, which is more of a rubric than a tech spec, anyway.

    @20: That’s why I pose that as a question. It seems to me that just from a functional standpoint, as Melissa in @21 points out (hello!), you can’t grow up today without excellent computer and Internet skills and expect to be employable in a decent job tomorrow.

    @22: I didn’t have room to note that Verizon is attempting to exit many of its landline markets, including the Northwest, selling off copper to companies that won’t have the resources to build fiber to the home.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @19: WiMax is 4G. It meets both the spirit and letter of 4G services. There’s been no dispute in the industry over whether it’s 4G, which is more of a rubric than a tech spec, anyway.

    @20: That’s why I pose that as a question. It seems to me that just from a functional standpoint, as Melissa in @21 points out (hello!), you can’t grow up today without excellent computer and Internet skills and expect to be employable in a decent job tomorrow.

    @22: I didn’t have room to note that Verizon is attempting to exit many of its landline markets, including the Northwest, selling off copper to companies that won’t have the resources to build fiber to the home.

  • kpt

    Nobody is mentioning the real reason that the telecoms oppose stuff like this – price pressure. Tacoma’s cable rates haven’t risen nearly as much as elsewhere – the difference is that there is a competing cable service (it just happens to run over fiber). Poor people buy cable just as much as rich people do. If they really can introduce competition not only in the cable and ISP markets, but also in the landline market with IP phones, and pay for it through a voluntary tax (user fee), I fail to see how that’s a bad thing for Seattleites (rich or poor).

    Are there better things we could be doing? Sure, but nobody’s saying we can only do one thing. If you believe the plan really can’t pay for itself, and thus will soak up tax dollars that can be used for, say, affordable housing, fine, attack that, and say why you think the self-financing of the bonds won’t work. But, there’s no other reason to think that issue and this one are related.

  • kpt

    Nobody is mentioning the real reason that the telecoms oppose stuff like this – price pressure. Tacoma’s cable rates haven’t risen nearly as much as elsewhere – the difference is that there is a competing cable service (it just happens to run over fiber). Poor people buy cable just as much as rich people do. If they really can introduce competition not only in the cable and ISP markets, but also in the landline market with IP phones, and pay for it through a voluntary tax (user fee), I fail to see how that’s a bad thing for Seattleites (rich or poor).

    Are there better things we could be doing? Sure, but nobody’s saying we can only do one thing. If you believe the plan really can’t pay for itself, and thus will soak up tax dollars that can be used for, say, affordable housing, fine, attack that, and say why you think the self-financing of the bonds won’t work. But, there’s no other reason to think that issue and this one are related.

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com/ joshuadf

    @19: The people who complain about City Light or Tacoma Power are the same ones who claim that Medicare and TVA are “failures.” These services are good (not perfect). By the way, in Tacoma Click! is just owns the infrastructure, you can choose any ISP you want (like Speakeasy DSL is in Seattle).

    @23: My mistake, I was getting it confused with LTE. I should know better.

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com joshuadf

    @19: The people who complain about City Light or Tacoma Power are the same ones who claim that Medicare and TVA are “failures.” These services are good (not perfect). By the way, in Tacoma Click! is just owns the infrastructure, you can choose any ISP you want (like Speakeasy DSL is in Seattle).

    @23: My mistake, I was getting it confused with LTE. I should know better.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @25: LTE is also 4G!

    Both LTE and WiMax use wide channels (10 MHz or greater), which allow higher bandwidth. (WiMax can use 5 MHz channels, too.) Both use OFDMA, a method of dividing up a channel into many subchannels which can be provisioned for different users and purposes upstream and downstream.

    This helps fight interference, improve signal reception, and deliver guaranteed amounts of bandwidth to particular users paying more for that privilege.

    It’s possible that WiMax and LTE will eventually become intercompatible, too, in some fashion, or merge into a single roadmap.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @25: LTE is also 4G!

    Both LTE and WiMax use wide channels (10 MHz or greater), which allow higher bandwidth. (WiMax can use 5 MHz channels, too.) Both use OFDMA, a method of dividing up a channel into many subchannels which can be provisioned for different users and purposes upstream and downstream.

    This helps fight interference, improve signal reception, and deliver guaranteed amounts of bandwidth to particular users paying more for that privilege.

    It’s possible that WiMax and LTE will eventually become intercompatible, too, in some fashion, or merge into a single roadmap.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @19: per Joshua in @25, Tacoma’s Click! is actually a great example (among many one can find) of a city utility (not the “city”) providing an effective, well-run service that increased competition. Click! wholesales its broadband, retails its cable TV.

    Many utilities (public and private) are completely competent, and able to run insanely complicated infrastructures that work reliably.

    In fact, many power companies already run networks across many or all of their major powerlines using fiber strung in the same places for monitoring and remote control and surveillance. Adding feeds to homes along existing power runs is not that big a deal (they have the trucks, people, expertise).

    If they wholesale to broadband firms, then the utilities don’t even have to gain expertise in being an Internet service provider. They just run the pipes.

  • Glenn Fleishman

    @19: per Joshua in @25, Tacoma’s Click! is actually a great example (among many one can find) of a city utility (not the “city”) providing an effective, well-run service that increased competition. Click! wholesales its broadband, retails its cable TV.

    Many utilities (public and private) are completely competent, and able to run insanely complicated infrastructures that work reliably.

    In fact, many power companies already run networks across many or all of their major powerlines using fiber strung in the same places for monitoring and remote control and surveillance. Adding feeds to homes along existing power runs is not that big a deal (they have the trucks, people, expertise).

    If they wholesale to broadband firms, then the utilities don’t even have to gain expertise in being an Internet service provider. They just run the pipes.

  • http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ Mr.Baker

    Muni internet is nothing new, the answers and issues are just flavored and detailed slightly differently.

    Won’t private enterprise just fill in the holes that exist today?

    The answer was no 20 years ago in Texas rural, it is today, and will be no tomorrow.

    Over the past couple years, whenever I had to write a paper for one of my COM classes, I would return to this subject.

    I understand the desire to string line, and I think that is the better long term solution, I had thought that the ISP could be a function of the Seattle Public Library, and not some commercial business. The library is one of the few government entities that has a vested interest in information management, and had demonstrated desire and ability to protect civil liberties.
    Line already runs through the city, through the library. Libraries are public information nodes already serving thousands of citizens pulp and internet use.
    And, at some point the public online persona will get split into two, private/public, but that is a different issue and potential byproduct of turning a service into a public universal utility. (your house numbers are not personal identification, neither is address and zip)

    Anyway, excellent story, and you might want to mention how much Comcast is paying Seattle, and when the contract ends.