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PubliCola was off and running. In June 2009, PubliCola hired another award-winning journalist, super-sourced Seattle city hall reporter Erica C. Barnett.

People were afraid that blogging would change journalism. Instead, we believe journalism can change blogging. Twenty-first century journalism may look and feel different, and yes Erica isn't afraid to get cranky, but we're committed to making sure online news still delivers independent, reliable, even-keeled coverage. And most of all, we're committed to making sure the coverage sparks honest civic debate.

Bringing you cola for the people, PubliCola is named after Publius Valerius PubliCola, the alias for the authors of the Federalist Papers—the original bloggers.

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Dear ORCA: You Are Not Worth an Extra $5 a Month

side_crank

UPDATE: OK, OK, it’s not technically $5 a month, unless you’re like me and lose your card all the time. But: It’s still five bucks, and that’s still too much to pay for such a spotty service, whether you’re paying it once a month, once a lifetime, or once a day. No other transit system I know of makes users pay an extra, non-refundable fee. Think I’m wrong? Please feel free to yell at me in the comments.

Local transit agencies, including King County Metro and Sound Transit, just announced that the ORCA (“One Regional Card for All”) card—a flimsy plastic card that can be bought from machines at light rail stations and the downtown transit tunnel—will soon cost transit users $5, on top of the cost of the fare loaded onto the card itself. That means that in addition to spending $2 for a one-way light-rail trip, transit users will have to hang onto their cards or spend $5 every time they get a new transit pass. (Metro, in contrast, doesn’t charge extra for its plastic passes).

-2

I’m a huge fan of ORCA—in theory. The idea that riders can use a single card to access every local transit agency is awesome, badly needed, and long overdue. However: The system doesn’t work well enough yet to justify charging an extra five bucks for the “privilege” of using plastic instead of cash (particularly given that light rail already costs more than the bus). Moreover, given that riders will no longer be able to use paper transfers between agencies (e.g., Metro buses and light rail trains) starting in January, using ORCA soon won’t be optional.

The problems with ORCA go way beyond minor technical glitches.

For example: In two months of riding light rail from my home in Southeast Seattle to my office downtown and back, I’ve encountered multiple broken ORCA readers (e.g. the one pictured above, which was down for more than a week); ticket vending machines that either featured black screens or informed me, after taking my money, that they had encountered a “problem with production”; card readers on buses that refused to accept my card; and generally useless customer service any time I’ve tried to get assistance. (When I lost my ORCA card this month, for example, a customer-service rep directed me to the web site, which directed me to the number I had just called, where I was told—after spending half an hour on hold—there was nothing they could do. Thanks, ORCA!)

Moreover, given that the new system will penalize riders who only have cash (no more transfers means you pay full fare again every time you get onto a new bus or train, potentially doubling or quadrupling a round-trip fare), tourists and those without five bucks to spare will be disproportionately impacted by the fee.

Additionally, many users have reported that they purchased ORCA cards online in advance, only to find out that the agency had deactivated their cards because they hadn’t used them in 30 days.

I like the fact that Sound Transit et al are forcing everybody onto the same universal system—really, I do. One regional system is, in theory, far more sensible and efficient than the multitude of different agency fares, passes, and transfers that currently exist. However, it’s insulting to suggest that riders who are already paying higher fares should have to pay extra surcharge for the privilege of using a service that hasn’t proven its worth.


  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ John Jensen

    I think ORCA has a handful of serious service problems as well as many customer service problems, but it is highly misleading to say that the card costs $5 a month as you do in your headline.

    That’s like saying buying a re-usable grocery bag costs you an extra $2 every trip to the store. Being able to re-use a single card for years is green and common sense. Peer systems around the world with “smart” technology like this do charge for new cards.

    We should definitely encourage people to be green and re-use existing cards where possible. Think of all the wasted paper and plastic that goes toward transfers and PugetPasses.

    None of this negates from the pretty annoying operational problems with ORCA. When it’s not working it’s not the biggest deal from a consumer’s perspective — you can save money — but a transit agency should obviously collect its fares. Much worse is the customer support, I agree.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ John Jensen

    I think ORCA has a handful of serious service problems as well as many customer service problems, but it is highly misleading to say that the card costs $5 a month as you do in your headline.

    That’s like saying buying a re-usable grocery bag costs you an extra $2 every trip to the store. Being able to re-use a single card for years is green and common sense. Peer systems around the world with “smart” technology like this do charge for new cards.

    We should definitely encourage people to be green and re-use existing cards where possible. Think of all the wasted paper and plastic that goes toward transfers and PugetPasses.

    None of this negates from the pretty annoying operational problems with ORCA. When it’s not working it’s not the biggest deal from a consumer’s perspective — you can save money — but a transit agency should obviously collect its fares. Much worse is the customer support, I agree.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com John Jensen

    I think ORCA has a handful of serious service problems as well as many customer service problems, but it is highly misleading to say that the card costs $5 a month as you do in your headline.

    That’s like saying buying a re-usable grocery bag costs you an extra $2 every trip to the store. Being able to re-use a single card for years is green and common sense. Peer systems around the world with “smart” technology like this do charge for new cards.

    We should definitely encourage people to be green and re-use existing cards where possible. Think of all the wasted paper and plastic that goes toward transfers and PugetPasses.

    None of this negates from the pretty annoying operational problems with ORCA. When it’s not working it’s not the biggest deal from a consumer’s perspective — you can save money — but a transit agency should obviously collect its fares. Much worse is the customer support, I agree.

  • Elliott

    This weekend, I was riding Link from Othello up to Downtown. A fellow train rider and I tried desperately to pay our fares before the train arrived, but since all the machines were broken, that was impossible. (I had also planned to refill my ORCA card, which for some reason takes a full day when you load it from home.)

    One of the ST police came onboard at the Mt. Baker station and finally asked me for my fare at the SODO station. I told him that all the machines at Othello were broken, so it was impossible for me to pay, despite the fact that I wanted to do so.

    He scolded me by asking why I hadn’t gotten off the train to pay my fare at the next stop. I told him that I was in a hurry to get downtown, so that hadn’t occurred to me, and that, besides, it wasn’t really my fault the machines were broken. I was informed that “Washington State Code says different.”

    He then told me we were going to get off at the next stop to “take care of your fare situation” and “have a talk.”

    Before we got off the train, I told him that I wasn’t the only one that had trouble at that station, and that there was another guy who couldn’t make it work. He glared at me and said “Yeah? Where is he?” And wouldn’t believe me until I pointed at the guy on the ID Station Platform, where he too had been pulled off the train.

    We proceeded up the escalators where I was written up in the officer’s book. Only after this ordeal did it occur to the officers to check with dispatch about the Othello machines, which were indeed broken.

    I refilled my card and headed back to the platform to wait more than 15 minutes for the next train, which was stuck behind a line of buses.

  • Elliott

    This weekend, I was riding Link from Othello up to Downtown. A fellow train rider and I tried desperately to pay our fares before the train arrived, but since all the machines were broken, that was impossible. (I had also planned to refill my ORCA card, which for some reason takes a full day when you load it from home.)

    One of the ST police came onboard at the Mt. Baker station and finally asked me for my fare at the SODO station. I told him that all the machines at Othello were broken, so it was impossible for me to pay, despite the fact that I wanted to do so.

    He scolded me by asking why I hadn’t gotten off the train to pay my fare at the next stop. I told him that I was in a hurry to get downtown, so that hadn’t occurred to me, and that, besides, it wasn’t really my fault the machines were broken. I was informed that “Washington State Code says different.”

    He then told me we were going to get off at the next stop to “take care of your fare situation” and “have a talk.”

    Before we got off the train, I told him that I wasn’t the only one that had trouble at that station, and that there was another guy who couldn’t make it work. He glared at me and said “Yeah? Where is he?” And wouldn’t believe me until I pointed at the guy on the ID Station Platform, where he too had been pulled off the train.

    We proceeded up the escalators where I was written up in the officer’s book. Only after this ordeal did it occur to the officers to check with dispatch about the Othello machines, which were indeed broken.

    I refilled my card and headed back to the platform to wait more than 15 minutes for the next train, which was stuck behind a line of buses.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ John Jensen

    It should also be clear that you can buy light rail passes with cash or a credit card — you don’t need an ORCA card to ride the train to a soccer game.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ John Jensen

    It should also be clear that you can buy light rail passes with cash or a credit card — you don’t need an ORCA card to ride the train to a soccer game.

  • Elliott

    This weekend, I was riding Link from Othello up to Downtown. A fellow train rider and I tried desperately to pay our fares before the train arrived, but since all the machines were broken, that was impossible. (I had also planned to refill my ORCA card, which for some reason takes a full day when you load it from home.)

    One of the ST police came onboard at the Mt. Baker station and finally asked me for my fare at the SODO station. I told him that all the machines at Othello were broken, so it was impossible for me to pay, despite the fact that I wanted to do so.

    He scolded me by asking why I hadn’t gotten off the train to pay my fare at the next stop. I told him that I was in a hurry to get downtown, so that hadn’t occurred to me, and that, besides, it wasn’t really my fault the machines were broken. I was informed that “Washington State Code says different.”

    He then told me we were going to get off at the next stop to “take care of your fare situation” and “have a talk.”

    Before we got off the train, I told him that I wasn’t the only one that had trouble at that station, and that there was another guy who couldn’t make it work. He glared at me and said “Yeah? Where is he?” And wouldn’t believe me until I pointed at the guy on the ID Station Platform, where he too had been pulled off the train.

    We proceeded up the escalators where I was written up in the officer’s book. Only after this ordeal did it occur to the officers to check with dispatch about the Othello machines, which were indeed broken.

    I refilled my card and headed back to the platform to wait more than 15 minutes for the next train, which was stuck behind a line of buses.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com John Jensen

    It should also be clear that you can buy light rail passes with cash or a credit card — you don’t need an ORCA card to ride the train to a soccer game.

  • http://gomezticator.livejournal.com/ Gomez

    Interesting timing. We all knew going in that ORCA cards would initially be free but after a while would cost $5 to get/replace. So why wait until now to get outraged?

  • http://gomezticator.livejournal.com/ Gomez

    Interesting timing. We all knew going in that ORCA cards would initially be free but after a while would cost $5 to get/replace. So why wait until now to get outraged?

  • http://gomezticator.livejournal.com Gomez

    Interesting timing. We all knew going in that ORCA cards would initially be free but after a while would cost $5 to get/replace. So why wait until now to get outraged?

  • lorax

    Where do you get $5 a month? Don’t you mean $5 a pass? It’s only $5 a month if you lose your card once a month.

  • lorax

    Where do you get $5 a month? Don’t you mean $5 a pass? It’s only $5 a month if you lose your card once a month.

  • lorax

    Where do you get $5 a month? Don’t you mean $5 a pass? It’s only $5 a month if you lose your card once a month.

  • Karwaki

    There is no reason the ORCA card should cost $60/year for administrative costs. At that price it would be as good as AMEX, and it certainly isn’t.

    This experiment with regional revenue sharing known as ORCA, whose vendor’s equipment still doesn’t work, should stop. Kill ORCA (the card, not the whale).

  • Karwaki

    There is no reason the ORCA card should cost $60/year for administrative costs. At that price it would be as good as AMEX, and it certainly isn’t.

    This experiment with regional revenue sharing known as ORCA, whose vendor’s equipment still doesn’t work, should stop. Kill ORCA (the card, not the whale).

  • Karwaki

    There is no reason the ORCA card should cost $60/year for administrative costs. At that price it would be as good as AMEX, and it certainly isn’t.

    This experiment with regional revenue sharing known as ORCA, whose vendor’s equipment still doesn’t work, should stop. Kill ORCA (the card, not the whale).

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    Yeah, I think this title is misleading as well. Why would ORCA cost you $5 a month? Why not $5 a week, or a day? This is like saying a pair of shoes costs you $20 a month because you like to throw them away. Don’t throw your shoes away every month, and you won’t have this problem. Do you throw your ID away, or your health insurance card? No.

    There are operational problems with ORCA, as John points out. That said, I’ve been using mine for two months now, and I haven’t experienced any of these problems. I have been giving $5 cards to friends to encourage them – and the only issue they’ve reported to me is not knowing that they have to tap the card after adding value online before it “shows up” – but if they were using it regularly, they’d never have to know that anyway.

    Sometimes a ticket vending machine is down. All ticket vending machine locations have more than one. If you’ve lost money in one, bring that up, it’ll get fixed. If one is stuck, wait until tomorrow, they’re being improved slowly to work those bugs out.

    No rider so far has had to pay a surcharge – and if you’re a regular rider, you have a lot of time to get your ORCA before you will ever have to pay – even a single time.

    If someone’s card is getting deactivated after not being used for 30 days, it sounds like they’re not exactly transit dependent, either.

    Multiple broken ORCA readers? Okay, I bet the one next to it isn’t broken. I’m pretty sure there isn’t a single station without four of them, and most have at least eight. They’re getting *less* broken over time – that’s why ORCA is still free, and why paper transfers are accepted until the end of the year.

    If you want to get fixes made, don’t go over the top in your reporting, it just makes you look bad.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    Yeah, I think this title is misleading as well. Why would ORCA cost you $5 a month? Why not $5 a week, or a day? This is like saying a pair of shoes costs you $20 a month because you like to throw them away. Don’t throw your shoes away every month, and you won’t have this problem. Do you throw your ID away, or your health insurance card? No.

    There are operational problems with ORCA, as John points out. That said, I’ve been using mine for two months now, and I haven’t experienced any of these problems. I have been giving $5 cards to friends to encourage them – and the only issue they’ve reported to me is not knowing that they have to tap the card after adding value online before it “shows up” – but if they were using it regularly, they’d never have to know that anyway.

    Sometimes a ticket vending machine is down. All ticket vending machine locations have more than one. If you’ve lost money in one, bring that up, it’ll get fixed. If one is stuck, wait until tomorrow, they’re being improved slowly to work those bugs out.

    No rider so far has had to pay a surcharge – and if you’re a regular rider, you have a lot of time to get your ORCA before you will ever have to pay – even a single time.

    If someone’s card is getting deactivated after not being used for 30 days, it sounds like they’re not exactly transit dependent, either.

    Multiple broken ORCA readers? Okay, I bet the one next to it isn’t broken. I’m pretty sure there isn’t a single station without four of them, and most have at least eight. They’re getting *less* broken over time – that’s why ORCA is still free, and why paper transfers are accepted until the end of the year.

    If you want to get fixes made, don’t go over the top in your reporting, it just makes you look bad.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Ben Schiendelman

    Yeah, I think this title is misleading as well. Why would ORCA cost you $5 a month? Why not $5 a week, or a day? This is like saying a pair of shoes costs you $20 a month because you like to throw them away. Don’t throw your shoes away every month, and you won’t have this problem. Do you throw your ID away, or your health insurance card? No.

    There are operational problems with ORCA, as John points out. That said, I’ve been using mine for two months now, and I haven’t experienced any of these problems. I have been giving $5 cards to friends to encourage them – and the only issue they’ve reported to me is not knowing that they have to tap the card after adding value online before it “shows up” – but if they were using it regularly, they’d never have to know that anyway.

    Sometimes a ticket vending machine is down. All ticket vending machine locations have more than one. If you’ve lost money in one, bring that up, it’ll get fixed. If one is stuck, wait until tomorrow, they’re being improved slowly to work those bugs out.

    No rider so far has had to pay a surcharge – and if you’re a regular rider, you have a lot of time to get your ORCA before you will ever have to pay – even a single time.

    If someone’s card is getting deactivated after not being used for 30 days, it sounds like they’re not exactly transit dependent, either.

    Multiple broken ORCA readers? Okay, I bet the one next to it isn’t broken. I’m pretty sure there isn’t a single station without four of them, and most have at least eight. They’re getting *less* broken over time – that’s why ORCA is still free, and why paper transfers are accepted until the end of the year.

    If you want to get fixes made, don’t go over the top in your reporting, it just makes you look bad.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    Karwaki, Erica’s poor reporting has confused you. ORCA is free. It doesn’t cost anything per month. She’s suggesting that she’ll lose the card once a month after the one time, $5 per card fee is instituted.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Ben Schiendelman

    Karwaki, Erica’s poor reporting has confused you. ORCA is free. It doesn’t cost anything per month. She’s suggesting that she’ll lose the card once a month after the one time, $5 per card fee is instituted.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    And this “just announced” crap is bogus as well, Erica. That’s been plainly stated for months. It’s been there since ORCA launched on the website and on most paperwork that references ORCA.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    And this “just announced” crap is bogus as well, Erica. That’s been plainly stated for months. It’s been there since ORCA launched on the website and on most paperwork that references ORCA.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Ben Schiendelman

    And this “just announced” crap is bogus as well, Erica. That’s been plainly stated for months. It’s been there since ORCA launched on the website and on most paperwork that references ORCA.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Adam Parast

    The international experience with smart cards is that they have so many problems because they are treated like IT projects when they really should be treated like accounting projects. Accounting projects have to be 100% accurate while IT don’t . That last 5% is where all the problems arise.

    Additionally agencies often fail to make a compelling case for why users should switch to the new smart card system. While I think compared to many international examples Seattle has a good reason to switch to a single smart card systems just take a look at the reasons for ORCA given on the old ocra is coming website.

    -More accurate ridership data for funding and service planning,
    -Better revenue data and the ability for daily regional revenue reconciliation,
    -Reduces the cost and employee time of producing and selling fare media,
    -Faster, easier boarding and customer service without the hassle of multiple transfers or passes,
    -Additional transportation systems to join in the future.

    Only one bullet point that the user actually cares about, everything else only useful for the transit provider. One possible way of making ORCA more relevant for users would be to market it as “always your cheapest ticket”. And by that I mean it. In London their smart card system ensures that you always get the best deal possible. That could be a combination of weekly or monthly passes in additional to e-purse.

    I wrote all about this a while ago here on STB.

    Until customer service issues (I have personally had a hard time with the website) are fixed people are going to resist switching.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Adam Parast

    The international experience with smart cards is that they have so many problems because they are treated like IT projects when they really should be treated like accounting projects. Accounting projects have to be 100% accurate while IT don’t . That last 5% is where all the problems arise.

    Additionally agencies often fail to make a compelling case for why users should switch to the new smart card system. While I think compared to many international examples Seattle has a good reason to switch to a single smart card systems just take a look at the reasons for ORCA given on the old ocra is coming website.

    -More accurate ridership data for funding and service planning,
    -Better revenue data and the ability for daily regional revenue reconciliation,
    -Reduces the cost and employee time of producing and selling fare media,
    -Faster, easier boarding and customer service without the hassle of multiple transfers or passes,
    -Additional transportation systems to join in the future.

    Only one bullet point that the user actually cares about, everything else only useful for the transit provider. One possible way of making ORCA more relevant for users would be to market it as “always your cheapest ticket”. And by that I mean it. In London their smart card system ensures that you always get the best deal possible. That could be a combination of weekly or monthly passes in additional to e-purse.

    I wrote all about this a while ago here on STB.

    Until customer service issues (I have personally had a hard time with the website) are fixed people are going to resist switching.

  • SoSea Resident

    While we’re being cranky South Enders, I want to rant about the new 39/34 route schedule. They seem to have moved extra runs to 5AM-7AM and 3PM-5PM, every 10-15 minutes. After 7AM or 5PM, normal commuting hours, its 30-40 min between runs. Are other light rail feeder routes similar? They wonder why people still ride the 7?

  • SoSea Resident

    While we’re being cranky South Enders, I want to rant about the new 39/34 route schedule. They seem to have moved extra runs to 5AM-7AM and 3PM-5PM, every 10-15 minutes. After 7AM or 5PM, normal commuting hours, its 30-40 min between runs. Are other light rail feeder routes similar? They wonder why people still ride the 7?

  • SoSea Resident

    While we’re being cranky South Enders, I want to rant about the new 39/34 route schedule. They seem to have moved extra runs to 5AM-7AM and 3PM-5PM, every 10-15 minutes. After 7AM or 5PM, normal commuting hours, its 30-40 min between runs. Are other light rail feeder routes similar? They wonder why people still ride the 7?

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com/ joshuadf

    So… how about someone just fix the ORCA problems?

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com/ joshuadf

    So… how about someone just fix the ORCA problems?

  • http://joshuadf.blogspot.com joshuadf

    So… how about someone just fix the ORCA problems?

  • JoshMahar

    $5 or not, there are many reasons why using an ORCA is inhibiting. For example, when I was unsure on a weekend whether I was going to take 3 trips or not, I could save two transfers and then trade them in with $.50 for an all day pass. Not so with an ORCA. Also, drivers can be more lenient with a transfer. If the bus is late they can still take your expired transfer or the OWL can kick in an hour or two early if a driver is feeling nice. Again, not so with ORCA. Finally, with ORCA you run the risk of getting charged extra if the system is a bit glitchy and its a huge hassle to get that money back. But when you pay with cash you know exactly how much youre giving.

    I agree with Adam P. that for people to switch to ORCA there needs to be some kind of actual incentive. Some reason why its actually better than just paying cash because at the moment this certainly not the case.

  • JoshMahar

    $5 or not, there are many reasons why using an ORCA is inhibiting. For example, when I was unsure on a weekend whether I was going to take 3 trips or not, I could save two transfers and then trade them in with $.50 for an all day pass. Not so with an ORCA. Also, drivers can be more lenient with a transfer. If the bus is late they can still take your expired transfer or the OWL can kick in an hour or two early if a driver is feeling nice. Again, not so with ORCA. Finally, with ORCA you run the risk of getting charged extra if the system is a bit glitchy and its a huge hassle to get that money back. But when you pay with cash you know exactly how much youre giving.

    I agree with Adam P. that for people to switch to ORCA there needs to be some kind of actual incentive. Some reason why its actually better than just paying cash because at the moment this certainly not the case.

  • JoshMahar

    $5 or not, there are many reasons why using an ORCA is inhibiting. For example, when I was unsure on a weekend whether I was going to take 3 trips or not, I could save two transfers and then trade them in with $.50 for an all day pass. Not so with an ORCA. Also, drivers can be more lenient with a transfer. If the bus is late they can still take your expired transfer or the OWL can kick in an hour or two early if a driver is feeling nice. Again, not so with ORCA. Finally, with ORCA you run the risk of getting charged extra if the system is a bit glitchy and its a huge hassle to get that money back. But when you pay with cash you know exactly how much youre giving.

    I agree with Adam P. that for people to switch to ORCA there needs to be some kind of actual incentive. Some reason why its actually better than just paying cash because at the moment this certainly not the case.

  • Andrew Smith

    I ride Link and the bus each day and I have had problems with orca exactly once, and that was when it first started.

    And as others pointed out, the $5 a month thing is a complete fabrication.

    I think this time the “c” is for crap.

  • Andrew Smith

    I ride Link and the bus each day and I have had problems with orca exactly once, and that was when it first started.

    And as others pointed out, the $5 a month thing is a complete fabrication.

    I think this time the “c” is for crap.

  • Andrew Smith

    I ride Link and the bus each day and I have had problems with orca exactly once, and that was when it first started.

    And as others pointed out, the $5 a month thing is a complete fabrication.

    I think this time the “c” is for crap.

  • Jason

    Goodness, Ms. Barnett. Where on earth did you get the idea Orca costs $5/month? Change the hed already.

  • Jason

    Goodness, Ms. Barnett. Where on earth did you get the idea Orca costs $5/month? Change the hed already.

  • Jason

    Goodness, Ms. Barnett. Where on earth did you get the idea Orca costs $5/month? Change the hed already.

  • disappointed

    No more transfers?! For some reason I was under the impression that if you were using ‘E-purse’ on ORCA it was able to tell when you were transferring bus to bus. I guess I thought all the machines were hooked up to some external server. According to the ORCA website you get a two hour time period for transfers. http://www.orcacard.com/ERG-Seattle/p2_002.do?m=42&i=kb.transfer
    Is this incorrect?

  • disappointed

    No more transfers?! For some reason I was under the impression that if you were using ‘E-purse’ on ORCA it was able to tell when you were transferring bus to bus. I guess I thought all the machines were hooked up to some external server. According to the ORCA website you get a two hour time period for transfers. http://www.orcacard.com/ERG-Seattle/p2_002.do?m=42&i=kb.transfer
    Is this incorrect?

  • Zach

    I second John Jensen’s comment. At the moment, your first ORCA card is free. This introductory period will end soon, and there will be a $5 fee for a new card, or a replacement.

    New passes or credit can be loaded onto the card at any time, so you won’t need a new card until your old one physically wears out or is lost. The ORCA website states that the “flimsy” cards last about 5 years — just tap your whole wallet against the reader, and you’ll reduce the wear and tear.

    If you still think the $5 fee every five years is unfair, remember the features you get with ORCA: faster boarding, easier transfers, autoloads, and recovery if your card is lost or stolen, among others.

  • Zach

    I second John Jensen’s comment. At the moment, your first ORCA card is free. This introductory period will end soon, and there will be a $5 fee for a new card, or a replacement.

    New passes or credit can be loaded onto the card at any time, so you won’t need a new card until your old one physically wears out or is lost. The ORCA website states that the “flimsy” cards last about 5 years — just tap your whole wallet against the reader, and you’ll reduce the wear and tear.

    If you still think the $5 fee every five years is unfair, remember the features you get with ORCA: faster boarding, easier transfers, autoloads, and recovery if your card is lost or stolen, among others.

  • Zach

    I second John Jensen’s comment. At the moment, your first ORCA card is free. This introductory period will end soon, and there will be a $5 fee for a new card, or a replacement.

    New passes or credit can be loaded onto the card at any time, so you won’t need a new card until your old one physically wears out or is lost. The ORCA website states that the “flimsy” cards last about 5 years — just tap your whole wallet against the reader, and you’ll reduce the wear and tear.

    If you still think the $5 fee every five years is unfair, remember the features you get with ORCA: faster boarding, easier transfers, autoloads, and recovery if your card is lost or stolen, among others.

  • Chris Stefan

    @13
    I’m not entirely sure the needs of someone who was just using ORCA as a stored value card have been fully thought out. A majority of ORCA users I know or who I’ve spoke to buy a pass every month and only use the e-purse to pay for companion riders or fare upgrades.

  • Chris Stefan

    @13
    I’m not entirely sure the needs of someone who was just using ORCA as a stored value card have been fully thought out. A majority of ORCA users I know or who I’ve spoke to buy a pass every month and only use the e-purse to pay for companion riders or fare upgrades.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    disappointed:
    Yes, e-purse transactions transfer for two hours.

    You know, Erica, if you lose your pass so often, where was the post about the new $96 PugetPass whenever you lost one? With ORCA, if you lose it, you can keep the monthly pass and just pay a replacement fee. With the old PugetPass, you were out of luck and had to buy a new one. If anything, this is a benefit to those who lose their passes.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Ben Schiendelman

    disappointed:
    Yes, e-purse transactions transfer for two hours.

    You know, Erica, if you lose your pass so often, where was the post about the new $96 PugetPass whenever you lost one? With ORCA, if you lose it, you can keep the monthly pass and just pay a replacement fee. With the old PugetPass, you were out of luck and had to buy a new one. If anything, this is a benefit to those who lose their passes.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    Chris and Josh: Paper transfers will continue to work for Metro past the end of the year. If you’re making three trips, it’s probably Metro, so if you want that leniency from Metro drivers or the upgrade to an all day pass, just keep doing what you’re doing – this doesn’t affect you.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Ben Schiendelman

    Chris and Josh: Paper transfers will continue to work for Metro past the end of the year. If you’re making three trips, it’s probably Metro, so if you want that leniency from Metro drivers or the upgrade to an all day pass, just keep doing what you’re doing – this doesn’t affect you.

  • http://www.seattletransitblog.com/ Eric

    @disappointed – Your impression was correct: ORCA keeps track of your last payment and automatically handles transfers. I do this all the time and it’s wonderful.

    One of ORCA’s top features is that you’re only out $5 if you lose your pass. A $4.75 12-month PugetPass (no longer available) cost over $1,000! This is a lot of money… not to mention many people rely on their employers to subsidize the cost.

  • http://www.seattletransitblog.com/ Eric

    @disappointed – Your impression was correct: ORCA keeps track of your last payment and automatically handles transfers. I do this all the time and it’s wonderful.

    One of ORCA’s top features is that you’re only out $5 if you lose your pass. A $4.75 12-month PugetPass (no longer available) cost over $1,000! This is a lot of money… not to mention many people rely on their employers to subsidize the cost.

  • http://www.seattletransitblog.com/ Eric

    @disappointed – Your impression was correct: ORCA keeps track of your last payment and automatically handles transfers. I do this all the time and it’s wonderful.

    One of ORCA’s top features is that you’re only out $5 if you lose your pass. A $4.75 12-month PugetPass (no longer available) cost over $1,000! This is a lot of money… not to mention many people rely on their employers to subsidize the cost.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    Erica: Other pass systems like ORCA also charge a fee. Oyster, for instance, charges 3 pounds as a deposit, or 5 pounds at a TVM.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ Ben Schiendelman

    Erica: Other pass systems like ORCA also charge a fee. Oyster, for instance, charges 3 pounds as a deposit, or 5 pounds at a TVM.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com Ben Schiendelman

    Erica: Other pass systems like ORCA also charge a fee. Oyster, for instance, charges 3 pounds as a deposit, or 5 pounds at a TVM.

  • Andrew Smith

    for the update:

    Oyster in London charges £3.
    Octopus in Hong Kong costs HK $50.
    Suica in Tokyo costs ¥500.
    The Chicago Card costs $5.

    etc.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if New York’s Metro card is in fact the only one of these that doesn’t charge…

  • Andrew Smith

    for the update:

    Oyster in London charges £3.
    Octopus in Hong Kong costs HK $50.
    Suica in Tokyo costs ¥500.
    The Chicago Card costs $5.

    etc.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if New York’s Metro card is in fact the only one of these that doesn’t charge…

  • Andrew Smith

    for the update:

    Oyster in London charges £3.
    Octopus in Hong Kong costs HK $50.
    Suica in Tokyo costs ¥500.
    The Chicago Card costs $5.

    etc.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if New York’s Metro card is in fact the only one of these that doesn’t charge…

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ John Jensen

    WMATA in DC charges $5 for its smart card. I think some of these systems have non-smart card passes though.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com/ John Jensen

    WMATA in DC charges $5 for its smart card. I think some of these systems have non-smart card passes though.

  • http://seattletransitblog.com John Jensen

    WMATA in DC charges $5 for its smart card. I think some of these systems have non-smart card passes though.

  • Marco

    “C” is more aptly for “confused” or “confounded” Erica. The cards are still free right now—plenty of time for agencies to get the equipment fixed (I won’t pay $5 for a box full of bugs and glitches). It’s also $5 one time, not every month.

    And no, you don’t pay $5 for your Metro pass because it doesn’t have a computer chip, it can’t be used on ferries, it can’t be used in Kitsap County, and if you lose THAT flimsy piece of plastic you’re SOL.

    By all means, ECB, “Crank” away, but get the basic facts straight before you get righteously indignant.

  • Marco

    “C” is more aptly for “confused” or “confounded” Erica. The cards are still free right now—plenty of time for agencies to get the equipment fixed (I won’t pay $5 for a box full of bugs and glitches). It’s also $5 one time, not every month.

    And no, you don’t pay $5 for your Metro pass because it doesn’t have a computer chip, it can’t be used on ferries, it can’t be used in Kitsap County, and if you lose THAT flimsy piece of plastic you’re SOL.

    By all means, ECB, “Crank” away, but get the basic facts straight before you get righteously indignant.

  • Marco

    “C” is more aptly for “confused” or “confounded” Erica. The cards are still free right now—plenty of time for agencies to get the equipment fixed (I won’t pay $5 for a box full of bugs and glitches). It’s also $5 one time, not every month.

    And no, you don’t pay $5 for your Metro pass because it doesn’t have a computer chip, it can’t be used on ferries, it can’t be used in Kitsap County, and if you lose THAT flimsy piece of plastic you’re SOL.

    By all means, ECB, “Crank” away, but get the basic facts straight before you get righteously indignant.

  • Chris Stefan

    @25
    Not to mention you are far less likely to lose your ORCA card because you don’t need to take it out of your wallet so often. Just slap your wallet against the reader.

  • Chris Stefan

    @25
    Not to mention you are far less likely to lose your ORCA card because you don’t need to take it out of your wallet so often. Just slap your wallet against the reader.

  • Chris Stefan

    @25
    Not to mention you are far less likely to lose your ORCA card because you don’t need to take it out of your wallet so often. Just slap your wallet against the reader.

  • Guest

    Hey Josh & Erica, will deliberately misleading or error filled reporting be the norm for publicola as a method of boosting comments?

    You post some inflammatory crap with misinformation and then your readers ask you to change it. Great way to build hits and comments!

    I mean you could “technically” say that Erica’s correction is a correction. However much like the statement that, “it’s still five bucks”, I say your reporting is still wrong. Not technically wrong of course, just misleading inflamatory crap.

    So is your non-correction just a way to stir up, us the readers, who were hoping for better from Publicola?

    I bet there are a better ways of getting further participation from your readers in the comment section than that. To further quote Erica, “Think I’m wrong? Please feel free to yell at me in the comments.”

  • Guest

    Hey Josh & Erica, will deliberately misleading or error filled reporting be the norm for publicola as a method of boosting comments?

    You post some inflammatory crap with misinformation and then your readers ask you to change it. Great way to build hits and comments!

    I mean you could “technically” say that Erica’s correction is a correction. However much like the statement that, “it’s still five bucks”, I say your reporting is still wrong. Not technically wrong of course, just misleading inflamatory crap.

    So is your non-correction just a way to stir up, us the readers, who were hoping for better from Publicola?

    I bet there are a better ways of getting further participation from your readers in the comment section than that. To further quote Erica, “Think I’m wrong? Please feel free to yell at me in the comments.”

  • Matthew Stubbs

    Hey Josh & Erica, will deliberately misleading or error filled reporting be the norm for publicola as a method of boosting comments?

    You post some inflammatory crap with misinformation and then your readers ask you to change it. Great way to build hits and comments!

    I mean you could “technically” say that Erica’s correction is a correction. However much like the statement that, “it’s still five bucks”, I say your reporting is still wrong. Not technically wrong of course, just misleading inflamatory crap.

    So is your non-correction just a way to stir up, us the readers, who were hoping for better from Publicola?

    I bet there are a better ways of getting further participation from your readers in the comment section than that. To further quote Erica, “Think I’m wrong? Please feel free to yell at me in the comments.”

  • wrong again

    Erica, this is also wrong: “(particularly given that light rail already costs more than the bus).” Link and Metro base fares are the same, $1.75. Top fares are the same, $2.50.

    Here are Link fares: http://www.soundtransit.org/x8343.xml

    Here are KCM fares: http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/fare/fare-info.html#fare_matrix

    And while we’re on the topic of fact-checking, the $5 fee to purchase an ORCA card isn’t tied to light rail or Sound Transit exclusively. It’s a regional system governed by a coalition of agencies that allows customers to access ALL services. It’s $5 whether you’re riding Link or Everett Transit or the Kingston ferry.

  • wrong again

    Erica, this is also wrong: “(particularly given that light rail already costs more than the bus).” Link and Metro base fares are the same, $1.75. Top fares are the same, $2.50.

    Here are Link fares: http://www.soundtransit.org/x8343.xml

    Here are KCM fares: http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/fare/fare-info.html#fare_matrix

    And while we’re on the topic of fact-checking, the $5 fee to purchase an ORCA card isn’t tied to light rail or Sound Transit exclusively. It’s a regional system governed by a coalition of agencies that allows customers to access ALL services. It’s $5 whether you’re riding Link or Everett Transit or the Kingston ferry.

  • wrong again

    Erica, this is also wrong: “(particularly given that light rail already costs more than the bus).” Link and Metro base fares are the same, $1.75. Top fares are the same, $2.50.

    Here are Link fares: http://www.soundtransit.org/x8343.xml

    Here are KCM fares: http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/fare/fare-info.html#fare_matrix

    And while we’re on the topic of fact-checking, the $5 fee to purchase an ORCA card isn’t tied to light rail or Sound Transit exclusively. It’s a regional system governed by a coalition of agencies that allows customers to access ALL services. It’s $5 whether you’re riding Link or Everett Transit or the Kingston ferry.

  • Matt the Engineer

    Is this where I post ORCA complaints?

    Complaint #1:
    I ordered a card for two of my nieces, to encourage them to come down and visit me on the bus. I added $10 to each card. But then I found out that in order for ORCA cards to work with children’s rates you need to bring the card along with a student’s school ID or birth certificate to one of the two ORCA locations downtown. This is far from convenient, and it’s been about three months without my being able to coordinate this (they live up in Bothell). Despite being initially excited, neither has taken the bus yet. One of them has lost their card.

    Complaint #2:
    ORCA can’t be used with “commuter checks” – the things employers give employees when they want to subsidize their transit commute. Apparently there’s no way to keep people from putting money on with commuter checks then taking their money out in cash.

    Benefit #1:
    On the other hand, it’s nice to get free rides when the ORCA reader fails. Metro apparently sometimes doesn’t want my money.

  • Matt the Engineer

    Is this where I post ORCA complaints?

    Complaint #1:
    I ordered a card for two of my nieces, to encourage them to come down and visit me on the bus. I added $10 to each card. But then I found out that in order for ORCA cards to work with children’s rates you need to bring the card along with a student’s school ID or birth certificate to one of the two ORCA locations downtown. This is far from convenient, and it’s been about three months without my being able to coordinate this (they live up in Bothell). Despite being initially excited, neither has taken the bus yet. One of them has lost their card.

    Complaint #2:
    ORCA can’t be used with “commuter checks” – the things employers give employees when they want to subsidize their transit commute. Apparently there’s no way to keep people from putting money on with commuter checks then taking their money out in cash.

    Benefit #1:
    On the other hand, it’s nice to get free rides when the ORCA reader fails. Metro apparently sometimes doesn’t want my money.

  • Matt the Engineer

    Is this where I post ORCA complaints?

    Complaint #1:
    I ordered a card for two of my nieces, to encourage them to come down and visit me on the bus. I added $10 to each card. But then I found out that in order for ORCA cards to work with children’s rates you need to bring the card along with a student’s school ID or birth certificate to one of the two ORCA locations downtown. This is far from convenient, and it’s been about three months without my being able to coordinate this (they live up in Bothell). Despite being initially excited, neither has taken the bus yet. One of them has lost their card.

    Complaint #2:
    ORCA can’t be used with “commuter checks” – the things employers give employees when they want to subsidize their transit commute. Apparently there’s no way to keep people from putting money on with commuter checks then taking their money out in cash.

    Benefit #1:
    On the other hand, it’s nice to get free rides when the ORCA reader fails. Metro apparently sometimes doesn’t want my money.

  • shabadoo

    @28: It costs $2.00 to travel from anywhere along MLK to downtown on the train, and $1.75 on the bus, during off-peak hours.

    Link does cost more for many common rides.

  • shabadoo

    @28: It costs $2.00 to travel from anywhere along MLK to downtown on the train, and $1.75 on the bus, during off-peak hours.

    Link does cost more for many common rides.

  • shabadoo

    @28: It costs $2.00 to travel from anywhere along MLK to downtown on the train, and $1.75 on the bus, during off-peak hours.

    Link does cost more for many common rides.

  • Andreas

    The best part about the $5 fee is what happens when your card is stolen, as my mother’s was a few weeks ago. First, while she was able to cancel her lost card online, she had no way to order a replacement card, as her credit/debit cards had been stolen and had to be cancelled as well. Of course, at the moment ORCA cards are free, but the online system wasn’t able to figure that out, and in order to get a replacement, she had to talk to a service rep.

    Even better than that, though, was the fact that despite the fact that the ORCA website told her that her card had been cancelled as soon as it was reported stolen, it took over three days for the card to actually be cancelled. In the meantime, the folks who had stolen her purse continued to use up her e-purse. Attempts to get a refund from ORCA for the funds used between when ORCA said the card was cancelled and when it actually was cancelled have thus far been completely unsucessful.

    It should also be noted that most other comparable systems, e.g. London’s Oyster Card, charge folks a deposit, not a fee, for the card, and said deposit, along with all funds on the card, can be refunded in full at any time. ORCA not only charges $5 for the card, but there’s a $10 “administrative refund fee” should you ever want to close your account.

    This system isn’t groundbreaking. It exists in quite a few places around the world. And yet somehow our transit agencies managed to find a way to break it. Brilliant.

  • Andreas

    The best part about the $5 fee is what happens when your card is stolen, as my mother’s was a few weeks ago. First, while she was able to cancel her lost card online, she had no way to order a replacement card, as her credit/debit cards had been stolen and had to be cancelled as well. Of course, at the moment ORCA cards are free, but the online system wasn’t able to figure that out, and in order to get a replacement, she had to talk to a service rep.

    Even better than that, though, was the fact that despite the fact that the ORCA website told her that her card had been cancelled as soon as it was reported stolen, it took over three days for the card to actually be cancelled. In the meantime, the folks who had stolen her purse continued to use up her e-purse. Attempts to get a refund from ORCA for the funds used between when ORCA said the card was cancelled and when it actually was cancelled have thus far been completely unsucessful.

    It should also be noted that most other comparable systems, e.g. London’s Oyster Card, charge folks a deposit, not a fee, for the card, and said deposit, along with all funds on the card, can be refunded in full at any time. ORCA not only charges $5 for the card, but there’s a $10 “administrative refund fee” should you ever want to close your account.

    This system isn’t groundbreaking. It exists in quite a few places around the world. And yet somehow our transit agencies managed to find a way to break it. Brilliant.

  • Andreas

    The best part about the $5 fee is what happens when your card is stolen, as my mother’s was a few weeks ago. First, while she was able to cancel her lost card online, she had no way to order a replacement card, as her credit/debit cards had been stolen and had to be cancelled as well. Of course, at the moment ORCA cards are free, but the online system wasn’t able to figure that out, and in order to get a replacement, she had to talk to a service rep.

    Even better than that, though, was the fact that despite the fact that the ORCA website told her that her card had been cancelled as soon as it was reported stolen, it took over three days for the card to actually be cancelled. In the meantime, the folks who had stolen her purse continued to use up her e-purse. Attempts to get a refund from ORCA for the funds used between when ORCA said the card was cancelled and when it actually was cancelled have thus far been completely unsucessful.

    It should also be noted that most other comparable systems, e.g. London’s Oyster Card, charge folks a deposit, not a fee, for the card, and said deposit, along with all funds on the card, can be refunded in full at any time. ORCA not only charges $5 for the card, but there’s a $10 “administrative refund fee” should you ever want to close your account.

    This system isn’t groundbreaking. It exists in quite a few places around the world. And yet somehow our transit agencies managed to find a way to break it. Brilliant.

  • TroyJmorris

    I don’t think it’s surprising that the Metro Passes don’t cost money as it’s buying unlimited in bulk.

    If you want the conviencence of not carrying cash and losing your property, you got the penalty of $5/card.

    Don’t like it, carry cash. Transfers, cash and paper will never go away, nor will they be penalized in our lifetime.

    It’s technically illegal to offer goods or services and not accept cash. But good luck explaining that to airlines.

  • TroyJmorris

    I don’t think it’s surprising that the Metro Passes don’t cost money as it’s buying unlimited in bulk.

    If you want the conviencence of not carrying cash and losing your property, you got the penalty of $5/card.

    Don’t like it, carry cash. Transfers, cash and paper will never go away, nor will they be penalized in our lifetime.

    It’s technically illegal to offer goods or services and not accept cash. But good luck explaining that to airlines.

  • TroyJmorris

    I don’t think it’s surprising that the Metro Passes don’t cost money as it’s buying unlimited in bulk.

    If you want the conviencence of not carrying cash and losing your property, you got the penalty of $5/card.

    Don’t like it, carry cash. Transfers, cash and paper will never go away, nor will they be penalized in our lifetime.

    It’s technically illegal to offer goods or services and not accept cash. But good luck explaining that to airlines.

  • jwalseth

    Every ORCA card has a unique digital signature, that’s the only way it can work. So of course it is a more expensive than the bus pass which is basically printed. If ORCAs were free, people would get one, load it, use it up, misplace it, get another. Result being the city would be awash in dubious ORCA cards. Considering all that $5 seems low.
    Advice for losers of cards. Get a retracting cord thingy, attach firmly to pack or belt, attach ORCA –this is why I have not lost mine.
    As far as the readers not working, I have simply been waved onto the bus by the driver in that circumstance.

  • jwalseth

    Every ORCA card has a unique digital signature, that’s the only way it can work. So of course it is a more expensive than the bus pass which is basically printed. If ORCAs were free, people would get one, load it, use it up, misplace it, get another. Result being the city would be awash in dubious ORCA cards. Considering all that $5 seems low.
    Advice for losers of cards. Get a retracting cord thingy, attach firmly to pack or belt, attach ORCA –this is why I have not lost mine.
    As far as the readers not working, I have simply been waved onto the bus by the driver in that circumstance.

  • jwalseth

    Every ORCA card has a unique digital signature, that’s the only way it can work. So of course it is a more expensive than the bus pass which is basically printed. If ORCAs were free, people would get one, load it, use it up, misplace it, get another. Result being the city would be awash in dubious ORCA cards. Considering all that $5 seems low.
    Advice for losers of cards. Get a retracting cord thingy, attach firmly to pack or belt, attach ORCA –this is why I have not lost mine.
    As far as the readers not working, I have simply been waved onto the bus by the driver in that circumstance.

  • Andreas

    @TroyJmorris: Transfers, cash and paper will never go away, nor will they be penalized in our lifetime.

    Uh, actually paper transfers are going way at the end of this year, at which point the only way to not pay an entire new fare every time you go from one bus/train to another will be with ORCA.

  • Andreas

    @TroyJmorris: Transfers, cash and paper will never go away, nor will they be penalized in our lifetime.

    Uh, actually paper transfers are going way at the end of this year, at which point the only way to not pay an entire new fare every time you go from one bus/train to another will be with ORCA.

  • Andreas

    @TroyJmorris: Transfers, cash and paper will never go away, nor will they be penalized in our lifetime.

    Uh, actually paper transfers are going way at the end of this year, at which point the only way to not pay an entire new fare every time you go from one bus/train to another will be with ORCA.

  • Also Cranky

    Despite the convenience of using one card for all transit options in the region, there are several things about ORCA that I do not like.

    I do not want all of my trips tracked and stored (and, if the card is provided by an employer, available to them. I don’t lead an exciting life, but where I go in my off-time is none of their business.)

    What about seniors and people who get a reduced fare because of low income and disability? They’re only offering reduced fare passes on ORCAs now, so they have no choice but to be tracked.

    I’ve seen people acting as though the fact that you can just wave your purse or wallet near the reader (instead of having to remove the card) is a good thing. Um, you don’t see the inherent problem with this? Better go read the old Wired article about the guy who cloned a newer RFID-enabled US passport right through a guy’s coat.

    Looks like we’ll have to choose between privacy or paying 2, 3 or even 4x the fare once paper transfers are phased-out. I don’t think this is fair.

    Yeah- you can do what I and a few friends have been doing and collect as many ORCAs as possible while they are still free. Don’t register them, only add a few bucks to each one, and swap them with your friends every few weeks. (Yes- we are doing this.)

    Even if you don’t register the cards and only add funds in cash- if you board and exit at the same stops everyday, your patterns can be established.

    While I’ve nothing to hide, I do not like the idea of my every movement being tracked. Neither should you.

  • Also Cranky

    Despite the convenience of using one card for all transit options in the region, there are several things about ORCA that I do not like.

    I do not want all of my trips tracked and stored (and, if the card is provided by an employer, available to them. I don’t lead an exciting life, but where I go in my off-time is none of their business.)

    What about seniors and people who get a reduced fare because of low income and disability? They’re only offering reduced fare passes on ORCAs now, so they have no choice but to be tracked.

    I’ve seen people acting as though the fact that you can just wave your purse or wallet near the reader (instead of having to remove the card) is a good thing. Um, you don’t see the inherent problem with this? Better go read the old Wired article about the guy who cloned a newer RFID-enabled US passport right through a guy’s coat.

    Looks like we’ll have to choose between privacy or paying 2, 3 or even 4x the fare once paper transfers are phased-out. I don’t think this is fair.

    Yeah- you can do what I and a few friends have been doing and collect as many ORCAs as possible while they are still free. Don’t register them, only add a few bucks to each one, and swap them with your friends every few weeks. (Yes- we are doing this.)

    Even if you don’t register the cards and only add funds in cash- if you board and exit at the same stops everyday, your patterns can be established.

    While I’ve nothing to hide, I do not like the idea of my every movement being tracked. Neither should you.

  • Also Cranky

    Despite the convenience of using one card for all transit options in the region, there are several things about ORCA that I do not like.

    I do not want all of my trips tracked and stored (and, if the card is provided by an employer, available to them. I don’t lead an exciting life, but where I go in my off-time is none of their business.)

    What about seniors and people who get a reduced fare because of low income and disability? They’re only offering reduced fare passes on ORCAs now, so they have no choice but to be tracked.

    I’ve seen people acting as though the fact that you can just wave your purse or wallet near the reader (instead of having to remove the card) is a good thing. Um, you don’t see the inherent problem with this? Better go read the old Wired article about the guy who cloned a newer RFID-enabled US passport right through a guy’s coat.

    Looks like we’ll have to choose between privacy or paying 2, 3 or even 4x the fare once paper transfers are phased-out. I don’t think this is fair.

    Yeah- you can do what I and a few friends have been doing and collect as many ORCAs as possible while they are still free. Don’t register them, only add a few bucks to each one, and swap them with your friends every few weeks. (Yes- we are doing this.)

    Even if you don’t register the cards and only add funds in cash- if you board and exit at the same stops everyday, your patterns can be established.

    While I’ve nothing to hide, I do not like the idea of my every movement being tracked. Neither should you.

  • Chris

    So many comments from Ben Schiendelman. From the way he talks, he sounds like a rep from ORCA.

  • Chris

    So many comments from Ben Schiendelman. From the way he talks, he sounds like a rep from ORCA.

  • Chris

    So many comments from Ben Schiendelman. From the way he talks, he sounds like a rep from ORCA.

  • Shelby

    I just would like to get everyone’s opinion. Is the ORCA card better than the puget pass? If so, how?
    I like the fact that with the Puget Pass you can pay in cash so they don’t have any of your personal information. They can track that specific card but they don’t know who purchased it. You also get unlimited swipes with the Puget Pass. Also why are they doing away with the paper transfer?
    I would also have to agree with Chris that Ben Schiendelman sounds like a rep from ORCA. Not that that’s a bad thing just making an observation!!!

  • Shelby

    I just would like to get everyone’s opinion. Is the ORCA card better than the puget pass? If so, how?
    I like the fact that with the Puget Pass you can pay in cash so they don’t have any of your personal information. They can track that specific card but they don’t know who purchased it. You also get unlimited swipes with the Puget Pass. Also why are they doing away with the paper transfer?
    I would also have to agree with Chris that Ben Schiendelman sounds like a rep from ORCA. Not that that’s a bad thing just making an observation!!!

  • http://NA Shelby

    I just would like to get everyone’s opinion. Is the ORCA card better than the puget pass? If so, how?
    I like the fact that with the Puget Pass you can pay in cash so they don’t have any of your personal information. They can track that specific card but they don’t know who purchased it. You also get unlimited swipes with the Puget Pass. Also why are they doing away with the paper transfer?
    I would also have to agree with Chris that Ben Schiendelman sounds like a rep from ORCA. Not that that’s a bad thing just making an observation!!!

  • justin

    shelby in case you still don't know you can wear a wig and buy an orca card from a tvm with cash so you can have card not traced to you…