Oh. Hell. No.

Created by the McGinn camp or a supporter?

Which is it? If the camp did it, he should apologize? If it was a supporter – that’s a different story. Should politicians apologize for what their supporters do? If that’s the case, when is Nickels going to apologize for the actions of his land developer supporters?

Created by the McGinn camp or a supporter?

Which is it? If the camp did it, he should apologize? If it was a supporter – that’s a different story. Should politicians apologize for what their supporters do? If that’s the case, when is Nickels going to apologize for the actions of his land developer supporters?

Sable – I thought you were a David Miller supporter?

If it was a supporter, his campaign should have taken it down immediately. I like the word fuck. I use it often. I do everything I can to get candidates to say the word fuck (so far, Rusty Williams has been the only one to really play into the game…). The word fuck has no place in the actual public discourse.

I know, this whole post isn’t about the word fuck, I’m just sayin’ is all.

If it was a supporter, his campaign should have taken it down immediately. I like the word fuck. I use it often. I do everything I can to get candidates to say the word fuck (so far, Rusty Williams has been the only one to really play into the game…). The word fuck has no place in the actual public discourse.

I know, this whole post isn’t about the word fuck, I’m just sayin’ is all.

Wait. You started this post with the assertion that there was a racial component to it. But, then, you didn’t outline the racial component. Please be explicit, as I don’t want to guess at your meaning before responding.

Wait. You started this post with the assertion that there was a racial component to it. But, then, you didn’t outline the racial component. Please be explicit, as I don’t want to guess at your meaning before responding.

I’m a McGinn supporter, but that poster is childish and condescending. If McGinn had anything to do with its creation and display he should explain himself. I’m guessing, however, that he didn’t.

I’m a McGinn supporter, but that poster is childish and condescending. If McGinn had anything to do with its creation and display he should explain himself. I’m guessing, however, that he didn’t.

Get over it.

Get over it.

I’m not the wonkiest of wonks, but I’m have followed this race very closely and didn’t hear about this 37th District incident. (And who was doing this raking? Sheesh.) Bobby was a great candidate who lost due mostly to a lack of name recognition. He’s friendly (VERY important), has a lot of life experience, and should consider running again.

That said, I’m sure most McGinn supporters have also never heard of Bobby Forch. If they even knew about this specific reference (the poster could be seen as a general statement), then indeed, that is screwed up.

I’m not the wonkiest of wonks, but I’m have followed this race very closely and didn’t hear about this 37th District incident. (And who was doing this raking? Sheesh.) Bobby was a great candidate who lost due mostly to a lack of name recognition. He’s friendly (VERY important), has a lot of life experience, and should consider running again.

That said, I’m sure most McGinn supporters have also never heard of Bobby Forch. If they even knew about this specific reference (the poster could be seen as a general statement), then indeed, that is screwed up.

first of all, it was a supporter, not the campaign. it was emailed to the person manning the projector and was put up in a moment of jubilation. second, i don’t think that it was a quote or reference to the forch-gate that you described. people use that phrase; it isn’t unique.

first of all, it was a supporter, not the campaign. it was emailed to the person manning the projector and was put up in a moment of jubilation. second, i don’t think that it was a quote or reference to the forch-gate that you described. people use that phrase; it isn’t unique.

Give me a break. I was at the 37th LD endorsement meeting. Were you? The person who said “don’t fuck this one up, seattle” was Cindi Laws. If anything, this poster is probably making fun of her.

Give me a break. I was at the 37th LD endorsement meeting. Were you? The person who said “don’t fuck this one up, seattle” was Cindi Laws. If anything, this poster is probably making fun of her.

I am a wonk, followed this election probably as closely as anyone, and never heard of the Bobby Forch incident at the 37th. I just searched the archives of Publicola and couldn’t find reference to it. I googled and couldn’t find reference to it. This post is the first time I’ve heard about it.

Can anyone point me to where I might read about the incident?

You just pulled race into this? What bullshit!

It’s funny because it wasn’t the first one. Whenever someone FUCKS UP, it opens them up for others to parody. Official or not, stop not having a sense of humor. Race and privilege has nothing to do with it.

If you want to disect it for humor or lack thereof,go for it. But don’t be weak and call an apple a vegetable to make a point.

Ah…Cindi said it?

I am a wonk, followed this election probably as closely as anyone, and never heard of the Bobby Forch incident at the 37th. I just searched the archives of Publicola and couldn’t find reference to it. I googled and couldn’t find reference to it. This post is the first time I’ve heard about it.

Can anyone point me to where I might read about the incident?

You just pulled race into this? What bullshit!

It’s funny because it wasn’t the first one. Whenever someone FUCKS UP, it opens them up for others to parody. Official or not, stop not having a sense of humor. Race and privilege has nothing to do with it.

If you want to disect it for humor or lack thereof,go for it. But don’t be weak and call an apple a vegetable to make a point.

Ah…Cindi said it?

Weird how perceptions differ among people …

I took this to mean Seattle shouldn’t fuck up by electing McGinn.

Weird how perceptions differ among people …

I took this to mean Seattle shouldn’t fuck up by electing McGinn.

Double standards…yes I think so. Truthfully for someone to say “Dont fuck this one up Seattle” I find it offensive…white, black, asian whatever race, creed, color, religion etc….

It comes down to responsibility and accountability!

White people tap their privilege more than R. Kelly taps underage ass! heeheeeheee
time!

Double standards…yes I think so. Truthfully for someone to say “Dont fuck this one up Seattle” I find it offensive…white, black, asian whatever race, creed, color, religion etc….

It comes down to responsibility and accountability!

White people tap their privilege more than R. Kelly taps underage ass! heeheeeheee
time!

I had not heard of the incident at the 37th, and after hearing about it, I interpret this poster as making fun of the original incident. It’s not classy, but it’s not a double standard at all. If McGinn or a supporter made a serious gaffe, I’m pretty sure that references to it from opponents of any race would be interpreted differently than making the same or a similar misstatement.

this is the dumbest post ever on publicola. i hang in political circles and have never heard this story. come to read the comments, it’s not even accurate.

I had not heard of the incident at the 37th, and after hearing about it, I interpret this poster as making fun of the original incident. It’s not classy, but it’s not a double standard at all. If McGinn or a supporter made a serious gaffe, I’m pretty sure that references to it from opponents of any race would be interpreted differently than making the same or a similar misstatement.

this is the dumbest post ever on publicola. i hang in political circles and have never heard this story. come to read the comments, it’s not even accurate.

Not to confuse this conversation any further (because I think it’s a stupid conversation in the first place), but I thought it might be a good idea to give a little context. Cindi got up at the 37th LD endorsement meeting and gave a short speech in favor of voting for Bobby Forch. The speech was basically a list of Black city council members up to this point ie “first there was A, then there was B, then there was C, then there was Richard McIver” (sorry, don’t know my council history enough). Then she said “Don’t fuck this one up, Seattle.” Personally, I wasn’t offended by her use of the word fuck (I agree with the commenter above. great word.) I was, however, offended that she was suggesting that I should vote for Forch on the basis of his race alone, and did not attempt at all to discuss his other qualifications for the job.

Not to confuse this conversation any further (because I think it’s a stupid conversation in the first place), but I thought it might be a good idea to give a little context. Cindi got up at the 37th LD endorsement meeting and gave a short speech in favor of voting for Bobby Forch. The speech was basically a list of Black city council members up to this point ie “first there was A, then there was B, then there was C, then there was Richard McIver” (sorry, don’t know my council history enough). Then she said “Don’t fuck this one up, Seattle.” Personally, I wasn’t offended by her use of the word fuck (I agree with the commenter above. great word.) I was, however, offended that she was suggesting that I should vote for Forch on the basis of his race alone, and did not attempt at all to discuss his other qualifications for the job.

Yes it was a 37th meeting/Forch reference.

Think about the fact that McGinn’s hook up with the Mike O’Brien team to get out the vote, and O’Brien was is the same race as….Forch.

Exactly.

Yes it was a 37th meeting/Forch reference.

Think about the fact that McGinn’s hook up with the Mike O’Brien team to get out the vote, and O’Brien was is the same race as….Forch.

Exactly.

I think I appreciate this as a double-standard, and perhaps even a racialized one at that. But the idea that the word fuck is verboten from supporter’s speech is absurd in 2009, and that applies to all candidates. So yes, it’s true that the mystery wonks who trashed Forch for having a supporter who says “fuck” in a semi-official capacity (and I too heard zero of this) should also to maintain consistency by trashing McGinn for having a supporter who says “fuck” in a similarly semi-official capacity. But it’s also true that this is a ridiculous thing to trash anyone for in the first place.

In the end, I simply don’t believe that existence of the word fuck is honestly offensive to anybody involved in urban politics outside of Utah. No, it shouldn’t show up on mailpieces and yard signs, but nobody should be scolded for it popping up in casual contexts.

Yes, the double-standard should be reversed — by the wonky wonks who scolded Forch apologizing.

I think I appreciate this as a double-standard, and perhaps even a racialized one at that. But the idea that the word fuck is verboten from supporter’s speech is absurd in 2009, and that applies to all candidates. So yes, it’s true that the mystery wonks who trashed Forch for having a supporter who says “fuck” in a semi-official capacity (and I too heard zero of this) should also to maintain consistency by trashing McGinn for having a supporter who says “fuck” in a similarly semi-official capacity. But it’s also true that this is a ridiculous thing to trash anyone for in the first place.

In the end, I simply don’t believe that existence of the word fuck is honestly offensive to anybody involved in urban politics outside of Utah. No, it shouldn’t show up on mailpieces and yard signs, but nobody should be scolded for it popping up in casual contexts.

Yes, the double-standard should be reversed — by the wonky wonks who scolded Forch apologizing.

I agree with #16. This is a really stupid post and lowers my opinion of the site. I too have never heard of the story and my guess is most in the room hadn’t either. Regardless, it’s such an incredibly stupid post to have associated with your name.

I agree with #16. This is a really stupid post and lowers my opinion of the site. I too have never heard of the story and my guess is most in the room hadn’t either. Regardless, it’s such an incredibly stupid post to have associated with your name.

@18 -

A much more obvious connection between McGinn and O’Brien is that they both ran the same Sierra Club office at one point.

Also, I was actually in the McGinn office the first time that image showed up. I don’t think any one else posting here was. The words “Bobby Forch” or “37th District” were never uttered. I actually took it to be an allusion to some of the less politically correct, supporter-created Obama posters.

It’s very easy to make up an explanation for what we see and fill it in with our experiences. Humans are really good at that. What we’re really bad at is stepping back to realize that there may be other explanations, and that some of our assumptions are just plain wrong (read any usability book for confirmation of this fairly basic psychological precept).

This was lighthearted, irreverent humor, used to build up internal morale. It’s out in the world now because people liked it. It’s a complex series of events that neither McGinn or the supporter who created it could – or should – be blamed for.

And, as several people have pointed out, if you’re offended/afraid of the word “fuck”, I paraphrase George Carlin: There are two nobs on the radio. One controls the volume, and the other changes the station.

@18 -

A much more obvious connection between McGinn and O’Brien is that they both ran the same Sierra Club office at one point.

Also, I was actually in the McGinn office the first time that image showed up. I don’t think any one else posting here was. The words “Bobby Forch” or “37th District” were never uttered. I actually took it to be an allusion to some of the less politically correct, supporter-created Obama posters.

It’s very easy to make up an explanation for what we see and fill it in with our experiences. Humans are really good at that. What we’re really bad at is stepping back to realize that there may be other explanations, and that some of our assumptions are just plain wrong (read any usability book for confirmation of this fairly basic psychological precept).

This was lighthearted, irreverent humor, used to build up internal morale. It’s out in the world now because people liked it. It’s a complex series of events that neither McGinn or the supporter who created it could – or should – be blamed for.

And, as several people have pointed out, if you’re offended/afraid of the word “fuck”, I paraphrase George Carlin: There are two nobs on the radio. One controls the volume, and the other changes the station.

16 & 20:

So do you seek out only those stories that tell you about that which you already knew? Thus discrediting those that tell you something new? Are you REALLY that plugged in?

really?

Do you and your friends practice those soooooSeattle consensus valued above neural sheathing type comfortable conversations, all in smiley faced bobble-headed agreement?

16 & 20:

So do you seek out only those stories that tell you about that which you already knew? Thus discrediting those that tell you something new? Are you REALLY that plugged in?

really?

Do you and your friends practice those soooooSeattle consensus valued above neural sheathing type comfortable conversations, all in smiley faced bobble-headed agreement?

Pure unadulterated garbage on many levels. Congrats, Publicola.

Pure unadulterated garbage on many levels. Congrats, Publicola.

Forch and his campaign (he lost badly last night, btw, coming in fifth place) were raked over the coals for this incident. It was played up in all political circles as a major nail in his coffin. Any time a person said “Bobby Forch,” it was followed up by someone else saying “did you hear what happened at the 37th?!”

Sable…I’m still waiting for any verification of this.

As I said above, I’ve done extensive searching on this story, and haven’t found reference to it anywhere. Now, I just went to your blog to look for it, and didn’t find it there either.

Can you back up your assertions here?

Forch and his campaign (he lost badly last night, btw, coming in fifth place) were raked over the coals for this incident. It was played up in all political circles as a major nail in his coffin. Any time a person said “Bobby Forch,” it was followed up by someone else saying “did you hear what happened at the 37th?!”

Sable…I’m still waiting for any verification of this.

As I said above, I’ve done extensive searching on this story, and haven’t found reference to it anywhere. Now, I just went to your blog to look for it, and didn’t find it there either.

Can you back up your assertions here?

I feel like I’ve been following this election fairly closely, but I hadn’t heard about the Forch incident.

That said, yeah, if someone raised a big stink over that and not this, it’s stupid-ass-stupid.

I feel like I’ve been following this election fairly closely, but I hadn’t heard about the Forch incident.

That said, yeah, if someone raised a big stink over that and not this, it’s stupid-ass-stupid.

Soulnerd writes very well. I’ll be happy to read whatever she has to say on issues that turn out to be actual issues.

If I saw that poster and had been at the 37th to hear Laws/Forch says what she/he said (and which is it? Surely someone knows!), I’d simply think the poster was saying that we can’t fuck up the chance to get Nickels out. And I hope we don’t.

Soulnerd writes very well. I’ll be happy to read whatever she has to say on issues that turn out to be actual issues.

If I saw that poster and had been at the 37th to hear Laws/Forch says what she/he said (and which is it? Surely someone knows!), I’d simply think the poster was saying that we can’t fuck up the chance to get Nickels out. And I hope we don’t.

This is a silly, frivolous and, it seems, spiteful post that detracts from the quality of the actual, serious, content on this site.

Publicola can host this sort of garbage if they want, but the “nerds” posts are noticeably less good and less interesting than the other content on this site. They should be posted on diaries or something dkos style and promoted when they are actually good or worth reading. This isn’t. Bobby Forch didn’t get “raked over the coals” for this, and if he had, it probably wouldn’t have hurt him to have people actually notice him. No double standard here, just a candidate that lost. And a supporter that wants someone else to blame.

This is a silly, frivolous and, it seems, spiteful post that detracts from the quality of the actual, serious, content on this site.

Publicola can host this sort of garbage if they want, but the “nerds” posts are noticeably less good and less interesting than the other content on this site. They should be posted on diaries or something dkos style and promoted when they are actually good or worth reading. This isn’t. Bobby Forch didn’t get “raked over the coals” for this, and if he had, it probably wouldn’t have hurt him to have people actually notice him. No double standard here, just a candidate that lost. And a supporter that wants someone else to blame.

This sticker is obviously a jab at that utterly ridiculous statement of Cindy Law’s (one of many, many utterly ridiculous statements she’s fond of making) and not Bobby Forch himself. Cindy Law is WHITE. She may have been standing up for Bobby Forch, but the jab was at her, not him. Get over it. This is just silly.

This sticker is obviously a jab at that utterly ridiculous statement of Cindy Law’s (one of many, many utterly ridiculous statements she’s fond of making) and not Bobby Forch himself. Cindy Law is WHITE. She may have been standing up for Bobby Forch, but the jab was at her, not him. Get over it. This is just silly.

If you didn’t hear what happened in the 37th you aren’t plugged in. You need to rely less on blogs and posts and more on attending events or speaking to people who have. This event happened, it was outlandish and it damaged the Forch campaign a great deal. The poster was a directly associated with the original quote. #16 and #20 please either stop living in a deep dark cave where only your opinions echo back to you of the walls or move to another city.

If you didn’t hear what happened in the 37th you aren’t plugged in. You need to rely less on blogs and posts and more on attending events or speaking to people who have. This event happened, it was outlandish and it damaged the Forch campaign a great deal. The poster was a directly associated with the original quote. #16 and #20 please either stop living in a deep dark cave where only your opinions echo back to you of the walls or move to another city.

McGinn’s not willing to go one on one with me or a lot of us. The wonks are still voting for him, however.

That said, the contexts of the two statements were dramatically different, not because of race but because of who made each statement, how it was made and where it was made. Oh, and Forch was definitely a huge underdog going in given the support bases of several opponents (including the urbanist core backing O’Brien). That didn’t exactly cost him anything: He was a long shot to make it to November as it was.

And yes, I voted for Forch.

McGinn’s not willing to go one on one with me or a lot of us. The wonks are still voting for him, however.

That said, the contexts of the two statements were dramatically different, not because of race but because of who made each statement, how it was made and where it was made. Oh, and Forch was definitely a huge underdog going in given the support bases of several opponents (including the urbanist core backing O’Brien). That didn’t exactly cost him anything: He was a long shot to make it to November as it was.

And yes, I voted for Forch.

i do not think it’s funny and no you are not seeing thing’s or reading into something that isn’t there …i agree with you on this one…in fact the poster (no matter who did it) is insulting to all people who live in seattle !!! and why ? i will tell you why ..like it’s our fault seattle is fucked up !! i don’t think it’s funny , and you are right WHITE men/women do try to use the advantage of being white to do ignorant things all the time and they are no better then anyone else!! i hate double standards ! i hate them because it’s not only a race issue but also a gender issue . white men get paid more for the same job a white woman does and and it just get’s worse from there ..what does this or any other double standard say to our children who we tell you can do anything ? do we really have to add only if you are white ? i say no !!! and a double HELL NO !!! anyway thank you for letting me comment and please keep pointing out all you see !!

i do not think it’s funny and no you are not seeing thing’s or reading into something that isn’t there …i agree with you on this one…in fact the poster (no matter who did it) is insulting to all people who live in seattle !!! and why ? i will tell you why ..like it’s our fault seattle is fucked up !! i don’t think it’s funny , and you are right WHITE men/women do try to use the advantage of being white to do ignorant things all the time and they are no better then anyone else!! i hate double standards ! i hate them because it’s not only a race issue but also a gender issue . white men get paid more for the same job a white woman does and and it just get’s worse from there ..what does this or any other double standard say to our children who we tell you can do anything ? do we really have to add only if you are white ? i say no !!! and a double HELL NO !!! anyway thank you for letting me comment and please keep pointing out all you see !!

I was there at the 37th. Cindi Laws stood up and declared that Sam Smith “begat” Sherry Harris, and Sherry Harris begat John Manning, and John Manning begat Richard McGiver, and therefore, “Don’t fuck this one up, Seattle” … what?

I never heard her name the candidate she was stumping for, never knew who it was until today. (Thought it might have been a Donaldson pitch.) I retold the story many times, but it was always a “there goes Cindi again” story, never a Bobby Forch story.

And yes, in this context I think the McGinn “poster” is hilarious as victory party material – though it would have been totally out of place in a serious context such as an appeal for a District party organization endorsement.

That said, and while I part company with SoulNerd on some fundamental perspectives (such as the very existence of the “race card”), she’s playing her role here and speaking from a community perspective that she does very well.

I was there at the 37th. Cindi Laws stood up and declared that Sam Smith “begat” Sherry Harris, and Sherry Harris begat John Manning, and John Manning begat Richard McGiver, and therefore, “Don’t fuck this one up, Seattle” … what?

I never heard her name the candidate she was stumping for, never knew who it was until today. (Thought it might have been a Donaldson pitch.) I retold the story many times, but it was always a “there goes Cindi again” story, never a Bobby Forch story.

And yes, in this context I think the McGinn “poster” is hilarious as victory party material – though it would have been totally out of place in a serious context such as an appeal for a District party organization endorsement.

That said, and while I part company with SoulNerd on some fundamental perspectives (such as the very existence of the “race card”), she’s playing her role here and speaking from a community perspective that she does very well.

So, RonK…did anyone rake Bobby Forch over the coals at the 37th LD?

So, RonK…did anyone rake Bobby Forch over the coals at the 37th LD?

Yes, Cindi said it.
Yes, McGinn’s camp knew about.
Yes, the image was created by one of his insiders.

There are those who have class. And there are those who are an ass. Enough said.

Yes, Cindi said it.
Yes, McGinn’s camp knew about.
Yes, the image was created by one of his insiders.

There are those who have class. And there are those who are an ass. Enough said.

Oh please!

Bobby had nothing to do with the fact that Cindi is bat-shit crazy. The incident (which did in fact lose Bobby enough votes to lose the endorsement) reflected badly on Cindi and her lack of political savvy, classlessness and general stupidity. I certainly didn’t refect badly on Bobby.

He’s a great candidate.

But, you really need to back up this assertion that Bobby was raked over the coals. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, that I heard the story from relayed Bobby as innocent in the debacle and a sympathetic figure – and Cindi as, well, you know, Cindi.

Oh please!

Bobby had nothing to do with the fact that Cindi is bat-shit crazy. The incident (which did in fact lose Bobby enough votes to lose the endorsement) reflected badly on Cindi and her lack of political savvy, classlessness and general stupidity. I certainly didn’t refect badly on Bobby.

He’s a great candidate.

But, you really need to back up this assertion that Bobby was raked over the coals. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, that I heard the story from relayed Bobby as innocent in the debacle and a sympathetic figure – and Cindi as, well, you know, Cindi.

@36 – You know not of what you speak. Those are three isolated facts, and they don’t prove a damn thing. They don’t even necessarily lead to the conclusion that you come to.

@36 – You know not of what you speak. Those are three isolated facts, and they don’t prove a damn thing. They don’t even necessarily lead to the conclusion that you come to.

Welcome to Publicola, SoulNerd. I’m glad you’re here, because there was way too much levity and mirth going on at Publicola. I’m thrilled that they’ve finally hired a joyless, humorless Nerd with a poison pen.

Cindi Laws’ original comment was racist in and of itself, as it called for Forch to be endorsed because he was running for “the black seat”. This McGinn mock-up might be a nerdy, wonky, insidery reference to that loon, or it could be a goofy, volunteer-made joke meant to raise spirits on election day. Either way it’s funny.

Your post is petty and mean. Go find something real to be upset about, then come back to us.

Welcome to Publicola, SoulNerd. I’m glad you’re here, because there was way too much levity and mirth going on at Publicola. I’m thrilled that they’ve finally hired a joyless, humorless Nerd with a poison pen.

Cindi Laws’ original comment was racist in and of itself, as it called for Forch to be endorsed because he was running for “the black seat”. This McGinn mock-up might be a nerdy, wonky, insidery reference to that loon, or it could be a goofy, volunteer-made joke meant to raise spirits on election day. Either way it’s funny.

Your post is petty and mean. Go find something real to be upset about, then come back to us.

Timothy @ 35 — I did not hear any comment at Forch’s expense, either there or afterward … but I did not hear everything everyone said there, or anywhere else forever after.

It’s only fair to credit SoulNerd with presenting as a competent witness to what SHE hears, which may have diverge from what you or I hear, which is one of the reasons she’s here.

That said, the 37th was only one of several Seattle districts, and Forch is currently running 5th in his bracket, and the first time is not always the charm.

“Don’t fuck this up.”

What an unusual formulation, Never heard anyone use that before. So it first appeared at a campaign event for a black candidate. And now it’s appeared at a white candidate’s campaign. Hmmmm, yep clearly a double standard and most likely racism. Those awful white people are at it again.

I heard that all white people are required to meditate five minutes everyday on new ways to hold the black man down. Apparently they are running out of ideas if this is the best they can come up with these days.

Timothy @ 35 — I did not hear any comment at Forch’s expense, either there or afterward … but I did not hear everything everyone said there, or anywhere else forever after.

It’s only fair to credit SoulNerd with presenting as a competent witness to what SHE hears, which may have diverge from what you or I hear, which is one of the reasons she’s here.

That said, the 37th was only one of several Seattle districts, and Forch is currently running 5th in his bracket, and the first time is not always the charm.

“Don’t fuck this up.”

What an unusual formulation, Never heard anyone use that before. So it first appeared at a campaign event for a black candidate. And now it’s appeared at a white candidate’s campaign. Hmmmm, yep clearly a double standard and most likely racism. Those awful white people are at it again.

I heard that all white people are required to meditate five minutes everyday on new ways to hold the black man down. Apparently they are running out of ideas if this is the best they can come up with these days.

I am confounded by the lack of aim in this conversation. Sable’s point was not to say “this and that thing happened” and see if you all knew about it. It was to present the question of whether or not it was appropriate (or in the least, genteel) for (the winning) candidate in the night’s joust to be seen guffawing it up over the submarine job the very same language did on Forch’s campaign. She even says (for those of you that get confused by the tweety birds and stars in your eyes after someone uses the R word) that she is NOT calling anyone a racist. She is simply asking you to consider if it was “time-out” behavior for Forch, why was it just “being rowdy” for McGinn?

I am confounded by the lack of aim in this conversation. Sable’s point was not to say “this and that thing happened” and see if you all knew about it. It was to present the question of whether or not it was appropriate (or in the least, genteel) for (the winning) candidate in the night’s joust to be seen guffawing it up over the submarine job the very same language did on Forch’s campaign. She even says (for those of you that get confused by the tweety birds and stars in your eyes after someone uses the R word) that she is NOT calling anyone a racist. She is simply asking you to consider if it was “time-out” behavior for Forch, why was it just “being rowdy” for McGinn?

I could rattle off countless examples of how a Black person does something and receives one kind of treatment, and yet a White person does the same thing, and the treatment they receive is completely different-…

You ever ride public transit? You ever observe how passengers react when a group of black people sit in the back of the bus and loudly toss around the words “nigga” and “Motherfucka” and so on? They are intimidated. They put their heads down and mind their own business.

Now imagine white people doing that. Yeah, I see your point. The treatment they would receive would be “completely different” wouldn’t it?

Maybe, just maybe, everything bad thing that happens to black people isn’t the result of racism or white privilege. Maybe some of it is just bad luck-or life.

Ok. I’ll go now. It’s not polite to state the obvious in a liberal forum.

I could rattle off countless examples of how a Black person does something and receives one kind of treatment, and yet a White person does the same thing, and the treatment they receive is completely different-…

You ever ride public transit? You ever observe how passengers react when a group of black people sit in the back of the bus and loudly toss around the words “nigga” and “Motherfucka” and so on? They are intimidated. They put their heads down and mind their own business.

Now imagine white people doing that. Yeah, I see your point. The treatment they would receive would be “completely different” wouldn’t it?

Maybe, just maybe, everything bad thing that happens to black people isn’t the result of racism or white privilege. Maybe some of it is just bad luck-or life.

Ok. I’ll go now. It’s not polite to state the obvious in a liberal forum.

Or maybe they’re just so happy to be in the back.

Voluntarily.

Or maybe they’re just so happy to be in the back.

Voluntarily.

Opps. One more.

the submarine job the very same language did on Forch’s campaign.

I see no evidence of that.

She may have not charged racism i=using the word racism but she charged racism using the terms double standards and whit privilege.

I agree that double standards, white privilege and racism (to be redundant) do exist. But I disagree, as I wrote above, that it is responsible for every bad thing that happens to black people. The use of the term “don’t fuck this up” by someone other than the candidate at a forum he happens to be at seems to me to be virtually meaningless to the outcome of a campaign.

Opps. One more.

the submarine job the very same language did on Forch’s campaign.

I see no evidence of that.

She may have not charged racism i=using the word racism but she charged racism using the terms double standards and whit privilege.

I agree that double standards, white privilege and racism (to be redundant) do exist. But I disagree, as I wrote above, that it is responsible for every bad thing that happens to black people. The use of the term “don’t fuck this up” by someone other than the candidate at a forum he happens to be at seems to me to be virtually meaningless to the outcome of a campaign.

He said. She said. People say/do stupid things sometimes. Maybe a double standard is being applied, but:

Is this really worth this much analysis and discussion?

/yeah, I’m contributing, too

He said. She said. People say/do stupid things sometimes. Maybe a double standard is being applied, but:

Is this really worth this much analysis and discussion?

/yeah, I’m contributing, too

ahow–i have a republican wife, so i think i have plenty of uncomfortable conversations in my house.

the connection made in the original post is dubious. extremely dubious.

i think the message was aimed at getting nickels out and you’d really have to search hard for a nit to pick if you made the connection SoulNerd did. thus is the failure of a site with no editor in chief keeping dumb rants off the site.

ahow–i have a republican wife, so i think i have plenty of uncomfortable conversations in my house.

the connection made in the original post is dubious. extremely dubious.

i think the message was aimed at getting nickels out and you’d really have to search hard for a nit to pick if you made the connection SoulNerd did. thus is the failure of a site with no editor in chief keeping dumb rants off the site.

ZZZZZZZ. This post was silly, off-base and tiresome. Talk about manufacturing an issue. Given all that’s happening in city politics, I hope you can come up with something more relevant to focus on.

ZZZZZZZ. This post was silly, off-base and tiresome. Talk about manufacturing an issue. Given all that’s happening in city politics, I hope you can come up with something more relevant to focus on.

Lets all comment on the asanine post, drive up readership and garuntee this sort of crap in the future!

Lets all comment on the asanine post, drive up readership and garuntee this sort of crap in the future!

The comments say it all, about race.

1) Minimize it, call it “pulling the card”
2) Declare that the incident never happened re” 37th

It’s not the original story that brings it out. It’s the response by McGinn supporters. That is how race works in Seattle. “WE’re all good and liberal, we’re beyond that, so quit whining”. Total Bullshit. I’m with SOULNERD on this.

The comments say it all, about race.

1) Minimize it, call it “pulling the card”
2) Declare that the incident never happened re” 37th

It’s not the original story that brings it out. It’s the response by McGinn supporters. That is how race works in Seattle. “WE’re all good and liberal, we’re beyond that, so quit whining”. Total Bullshit. I’m with SOULNERD on this.

I am black voter who ventured out to meet all of the position 8 council candidates, and though I didn’t attend the 37th (not my district) I had heard of the unfortunate remark by Ms. Laws. A stretch perhaps to say it cost him the primary, but altogether a stupid mistake.

Along the lines of Gomez @31 and RonK @34, this brother doesn’t see a double standard with the McGinn mock poster. Mr. Forch’s paid advisor attempted to argue her client’s race entitled him the 37th’s endorsement by virtue of the ethinic legacy of past council members for that seat.

I beg your pardon?

What if Mr. Forch was white vying for a seat previously occupied by white candidates? There’s your real double standard… Sable should have been outraged back then.

Since we elect council members city wide and not by a geographic districts (which may represent multiethnic communities) the entitlement argument by Laws was weak to begin with. Besides a comparison to two council members who were accussed of domestic violence while in office…. uh, let’s not go there.

That a McGinn campaign worker/volunteer made a mock poster using the same remark with his candidate’s photo is something else entirely given the context. Was it even distributed with the McGinn’s consent? It was, and is, a joke for those who follow the inside baseball.

oh, and tikka @37 sorry, but who a candidate hires to represent you does reflect upon you, rightly or wrongly. This is especially true in political circles; isn’t the deputy mayor provided as evidence that Mayor Nickels is overly aggressive?

I wish Bobby Forch well and I hope he considers running again.

I am black voter who ventured out to meet all of the position 8 council candidates, and though I didn’t attend the 37th (not my district) I had heard of the unfortunate remark by Ms. Laws. A stretch perhaps to say it cost him the primary, but altogether a stupid mistake.

Along the lines of Gomez @31 and RonK @34, this brother doesn’t see a double standard with the McGinn mock poster. Mr. Forch’s paid advisor attempted to argue her client’s race entitled him the 37th’s endorsement by virtue of the ethinic legacy of past council members for that seat.

I beg your pardon?

What if Mr. Forch was white vying for a seat previously occupied by white candidates? There’s your real double standard… Sable should have been outraged back then.

Since we elect council members city wide and not by a geographic districts (which may represent multiethnic communities) the entitlement argument by Laws was weak to begin with. Besides a comparison to two council members who were accussed of domestic violence while in office…. uh, let’s not go there.

That a McGinn campaign worker/volunteer made a mock poster using the same remark with his candidate’s photo is something else entirely given the context. Was it even distributed with the McGinn’s consent? It was, and is, a joke for those who follow the inside baseball.

oh, and tikka @37 sorry, but who a candidate hires to represent you does reflect upon you, rightly or wrongly. This is especially true in political circles; isn’t the deputy mayor provided as evidence that Mayor Nickels is overly aggressive?

I wish Bobby Forch well and I hope he considers running again.

Why were comments deleted? And, which comments were deleted?

Why were comments deleted? And, which comments were deleted?

This specific situation does not do the overall issue any justice. There are a million different ways people could have interpreted Forch’s 37th District mishap and McGinn’s Campaign Celebration banner.

I agree with Sable that there is a double standard that is so covert in Seattle and everywhere else its sickening! White folks walk around like everything is peachy keen, because it is, for them!

And yes, you know why those young black folks use the “n” word and act out on the bus and other forms of public transportation. Because they have been completely ignored and forgotten about in this so called liberal progressive city! Maybe if we treated them like real human beings and didnt take their actions and comments personally we would get somewhere!

And yes I take the bus, every single day! And yes I am a black woman who is pretty much living a very cush life. But I think the solution to healing communities is making sure we hold ourselves accountable for our own thoughts and actions and not blaming black youth for the problems of our city!

I hope that Sable does some better work on finding situations that would better define what she is getting at in her post. That “White Privilege” is alive and well, unfortunately this was not the right scenario to explain how white privilege works in this society.

Fight the Power!

This specific situation does not do the overall issue any justice. There are a million different ways people could have interpreted Forch’s 37th District mishap and McGinn’s Campaign Celebration banner.

I agree with Sable that there is a double standard that is so covert in Seattle and everywhere else its sickening! White folks walk around like everything is peachy keen, because it is, for them!

And yes, you know why those young black folks use the “n” word and act out on the bus and other forms of public transportation. Because they have been completely ignored and forgotten about in this so called liberal progressive city! Maybe if we treated them like real human beings and didnt take their actions and comments personally we would get somewhere!

And yes I take the bus, every single day! And yes I am a black woman who is pretty much living a very cush life. But I think the solution to healing communities is making sure we hold ourselves accountable for our own thoughts and actions and not blaming black youth for the problems of our city!

I hope that Sable does some better work on finding situations that would better define what she is getting at in her post. That “White Privilege” is alive and well, unfortunately this was not the right scenario to explain how white privilege works in this society.

Fight the Power!

Clearly, “don’t fuck this up, seattle” couldn’t possibly mean anything else, not “don’t let this opportunity pass you by” or “get out and vote” or any other pro-McGinn message.

As to appropriate or not… I don’t see “paid for by Mike McGinn” or any other indicator that it’s an official message endorsed by the campaign on that image, which based on the URL, looks like it’s in someone’s email (presumably the volunteer running the projector).

I don’t recall anyone freaking out when these came out:

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/obama_rocket_man_fuck_yeah4.jpg
http://www.abandonmythology.com/files/page0_blog_entry205-obama-i-got-this.jpg

What a stupid post. If this is the kind of manufactured non-issue that Publicola’s going to be spending their time on, I’ll be elsewhere.

Clearly, “don’t fuck this up, seattle” couldn’t possibly mean anything else, not “don’t let this opportunity pass you by” or “get out and vote” or any other pro-McGinn message.

As to appropriate or not… I don’t see “paid for by Mike McGinn” or any other indicator that it’s an official message endorsed by the campaign on that image, which based on the URL, looks like it’s in someone’s email (presumably the volunteer running the projector).

I don’t recall anyone freaking out when these came out:

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/obama_rocket_man_fuck_yeah4.jpg
http://www.abandonmythology.com/files/page0_blog_entry205-obama-i-got-this.jpg

What a stupid post. If this is the kind of manufactured non-issue that Publicola’s going to be spending their time on, I’ll be elsewhere.

Maybe one day publicola will be a real news site for Seattle politics. Until then lets discuss this fascinating insightful post.

Maybe one day publicola will be a real news site for Seattle politics. Until then lets discuss this fascinating insightful post.

Soulnerd — What is your connection to the Mallahan campaign?

Soulnerd — What is your connection to the Mallahan campaign?

SoulNerd hits the nail on the head. The lack of aghast politicos clamoring to mock the McGinn campaign for their insensitivity and ineptitude shows a clear double standard.

Mike O’Brien and Mike McGinn basically have the same campaign, their volunteers overlap almost entirely. The supporter (“volunteer”) who made that sign had to be aware of Cindi Laws’ comments regarding O’Brien opponent Bobby Forch. Ignorance is not a plausible defense here.

@Timothy, Stephanie, et al:

Within the few weeks after the comments were made at the 37th LD I heard them discussed over a dozen times. People laughed and laughed about it (mostly at Cindi Laws being dumb), debated the necessity or craziness of Position 8 being “the black seat”, and that issue/conversation sucked all of the oxygen from anything else Bobby Forch’s campaign tried to do for weeks. I heard these conversations at several LD meetings, community forums, the Politico’s mixer, Candidate Survivor, and random gatherings of the politically obsessed. If you didn’t get wind of this before today then you either a) didn’t attend any events, b) didn’t engage in discussion about the Pos 8 race, c) stood in a corner and creepily stared at hot people and didn’t talk to anyone. I could call 50 people right now who heard of the comments and discussed them in some form or fashion weeks ago. If you missed that nugget of scuttlebutt, it was because you didn’t seek information beyond published media sources like Publicola.

SoulNerd hits the nail on the head. The lack of aghast politicos clamoring to mock the McGinn campaign for their insensitivity and ineptitude shows a clear double standard.

Mike O’Brien and Mike McGinn basically have the same campaign, their volunteers overlap almost entirely. The supporter (“volunteer”) who made that sign had to be aware of Cindi Laws’ comments regarding O’Brien opponent Bobby Forch. Ignorance is not a plausible defense here.

@Timothy, Stephanie, et al:

Within the few weeks after the comments were made at the 37th LD I heard them discussed over a dozen times. People laughed and laughed about it (mostly at Cindi Laws being dumb), debated the necessity or craziness of Position 8 being “the black seat”, and that issue/conversation sucked all of the oxygen from anything else Bobby Forch’s campaign tried to do for weeks. I heard these conversations at several LD meetings, community forums, the Politico’s mixer, Candidate Survivor, and random gatherings of the politically obsessed. If you didn’t get wind of this before today then you either a) didn’t attend any events, b) didn’t engage in discussion about the Pos 8 race, c) stood in a corner and creepily stared at hot people and didn’t talk to anyone. I could call 50 people right now who heard of the comments and discussed them in some form or fashion weeks ago. If you missed that nugget of scuttlebutt, it was because you didn’t seek information beyond published media sources like Publicola.

Man, Mallahan supporters are really mean. Yikes.

Man, Mallahan supporters are really mean. Yikes.

Lovin’ the McGinn astroturf on Publicola the last couple weeks.

Lovin’ the McGinn astroturf on Publicola the last couple weeks.

Hey Ian @ 55:

Just curious — How many LD district meetings and community forums and “discussions” where people stand around in corners have you attended in the past few weeks? And on whose behalf?

Hey Ian @ 55:

Just curious — How many LD district meetings and community forums and “discussions” where people stand around in corners have you attended in the past few weeks? And on whose behalf?

@55: Dude, unless I’m volunteering or working for a specific primary candidate, I only go to my own million-year, 101-degree LD meeting (the 43rd). Otherwise, I go to nearly everything else, including all the meetings you mentioned in your list, where I’m known to stand creepily in the corner and stare at people

See you on the trail in the General: Go, Richard Conlin 2009!

@55: Dude, unless I’m volunteering or working for a specific primary candidate, I only go to my own million-year, 101-degree LD meeting (the 43rd). Otherwise, I go to nearly everything else, including all the meetings you mentioned in your list, where I’m known to stand creepily in the corner and stare at people

See you on the trail in the General: Go, Richard Conlin 2009!

Ian–

your post is bogus on one major count–your suggestion that any of these political events have “hot” people at them. i attended several you described and so no hot people, and I didn’t hear mention of the Laws comment either.

Ian–

your post is bogus on one major count–your suggestion that any of these political events have “hot” people at them. i attended several you described and so no hot people, and I didn’t hear mention of the Laws comment either.

@58 I’ve attended 2-3 dozen political events in the last month. I don’t work for anything having to do with the mayoral or city council races.

@59 David Ginsberg is going to give him a good fight! It will be fun to watch.

@60 Aren’t you the person who asked to sign Dorsol’s chest after Candidate Survivor?

@58 I’ve attended 2-3 dozen political events in the last month. I don’t work for anything having to do with the mayoral or city council races.

@59 David Ginsberg is going to give him a good fight! It will be fun to watch.

@60 Aren’t you the person who asked to sign Dorsol’s chest after Candidate Survivor?

It seems to me, that the majority of the people objecting to this post are missing the point entirely. It isn’t so much that McGinn dare use profanity whilst campaigning, it’s that Bobby was treated differently when one of his supporters used the same exact phrase.

The number of people on here that just don’t get it is surprising to me.

One other thing that I find interesting, is how many people spend time out of their day to comment on what they have referred to as “the dumbest post ever on publicola”.

Interesting.

It seems to me, that the majority of the people objecting to this post are missing the point entirely. It isn’t so much that McGinn dare use profanity whilst campaigning, it’s that Bobby was treated differently when one of his supporters used the same exact phrase.

The number of people on here that just don’t get it is surprising to me.

One other thing that I find interesting, is how many people spend time out of their day to comment on what they have referred to as “the dumbest post ever on publicola”.

Interesting.

Can someone please direct me to evidence of the much-cited shitstorm?

Can someone please direct me to evidence of the much-cited shitstorm?

No, grizzlybear, even assuming there was any “raking over the coals” of Forch (by some undefined group of Seattle political insiders whose identities the reader is left to guess), it was most likely just political wonkery by local politicos — would have applied to any candidate, just happened to be Forch who had a laughably (or sadly, depending on one’s perspective) bad spokesperson at the 37th.

SoulNerd does not make any sort of convincing argument that Forch’s race had anything to do with any comment circulating among a few local insiders about statements at a LD meeting, much less that the whole episode would have been different if Forch weren’t black.

Yeah, perhaps a “clever” McGinn supporter made light of Cindi Laws via this unofficial poster. But it is SoulNerd who is painting with broad strokes and inflammatory claims of white privilege and racial insensitivity that apparently apply to a mayoral candidate — and apparently ALL his supporters.

On her own blog, she compared the McGinn campaign to the McCain campaign, where she rather ironically criticized McGinn’s apparent tactic of “guilt by association.” (Odd that this entire post is basically a guilt by association smear job.) Thus, her credibility is already suspect, and there is no “point” here other than to throw shit.

I didn’t vote for Forch, but I hope he runs again. I’d like to see him on the Council or in some other elected local office — just don’t let a loose cannon like Laws speak on your behalf next time.

No, grizzlybear, even assuming there was any “raking over the coals” of Forch (by some undefined group of Seattle political insiders whose identities the reader is left to guess), it was most likely just political wonkery by local politicos — would have applied to any candidate, just happened to be Forch who had a laughably (or sadly, depending on one’s perspective) bad spokesperson at the 37th.

SoulNerd does not make any sort of convincing argument that Forch’s race had anything to do with any comment circulating among a few local insiders about statements at a LD meeting, much less that the whole episode would have been different if Forch weren’t black.

Yeah, perhaps a “clever” McGinn supporter made light of Cindi Laws via this unofficial poster. But it is SoulNerd who is painting with broad strokes and inflammatory claims of white privilege and racial insensitivity that apparently apply to a mayoral candidate — and apparently ALL his supporters.

On her own blog, she compared the McGinn campaign to the McCain campaign, where she rather ironically criticized McGinn’s apparent tactic of “guilt by association.” (Odd that this entire post is basically a guilt by association smear job.) Thus, her credibility is already suspect, and there is no “point” here other than to throw shit.

I didn’t vote for Forch, but I hope he runs again. I’d like to see him on the Council or in some other elected local office — just don’t let a loose cannon like Laws speak on your behalf next time.

Emerald, you still don’t get it. She specifically stated that she was NOT accusing McGinn of racism, but rather she is frustrated with the fact that people respond to Mike differently than they do to Bobby. What she is saying is that the fact that Mike can get away with things that Bobby cannot, is in fact, white privilege.

Mike isn’t being accused of using this maliciously, but he still benefits.

Emerald, you still don’t get it. She specifically stated that she was NOT accusing McGinn of racism, but rather she is frustrated with the fact that people respond to Mike differently than they do to Bobby. What she is saying is that the fact that Mike can get away with things that Bobby cannot, is in fact, white privilege.

Mike isn’t being accused of using this maliciously, but he still benefits.

No, grizzlybear, I do get it. Sheesh, I give up –

No, grizzlybear, I do get it. Sheesh, I give up –

Also, how about some context:

The Forch incident happened at an LD endorsement meeting.

The McGinn incident happened at a celebratory party in a bar.

I think McGinn may have drank a beer last night, too. Does that mean Forch should get a pass if he was seen quaffing a cold one at the endorsement meeting?

Still waiting on corroboration of the alleged coal raking.

Also, how about some context:

The Forch incident happened at an LD endorsement meeting.

The McGinn incident happened at a celebratory party in a bar.

I think McGinn may have drank a beer last night, too. Does that mean Forch should get a pass if he was seen quaffing a cold one at the endorsement meeting?

Still waiting on corroboration of the alleged coal raking.

Well… this was a waste of my time. Sable is worked up about a non-issue. I wish I could agree this had something to do with white privileged, but I don’t see the connection.

Thanks, Sable, for inspiring my wife to yell about how she’s done reading your blog and maybe Publicola as well for writing garbage like this.

BTW – where I can get a higher resolution version of that picture?

Well… this was a waste of my time. Sable is worked up about a non-issue. I wish I could agree this had something to do with white privileged, but I don’t see the connection.

Thanks, Sable, for inspiring my wife to yell about how she’s done reading your blog and maybe Publicola as well for writing garbage like this.

BTW – where I can get a higher resolution version of that picture?

@65 Grizzly Bear…

Who, specifically, is treating Bobby Forch and Mike McGinn differently?

@65 Grizzly Bear…

Who, specifically, is treating Bobby Forch and Mike McGinn differently?

I haven’t read the comments but I’m pretty sure based on the gayness of the McGinn volunteers, this was a reference to RuPaul’s Drag Race, because it was a catchphrase of the show.

See, anyone can make groundless accusations!

I haven’t read the comments but I’m pretty sure based on the gayness of the McGinn volunteers, this was a reference to RuPaul’s Drag Race, because it was a catchphrase of the show.

See, anyone can make groundless accusations!

Sable, I’ve read a few of your blog posts and this is the second one that’s made me question your racial hyper-awareness.

I think you should really be more careful to not create issues that were not there, especially before you actually know what you’re talking about.

In my opinion, you have a flawed perception of of when race/white privilege actually comes into play. As a black male, I can almost assure you that your rants are doing more harm than good.

First, since what you’re saying truly sounds silly.. and the people who you want to get the message brush it off as such. Second, the people who agree with you are being guided in the wrong direction, also.

And anger and confrontational tone doesn’t help either.

I’m asking you, please.. for the benefit of everyone… dont make anymore blog posts.

Sable, I’ve read a few of your blog posts and this is the second one that’s made me question your racial hyper-awareness.

I think you should really be more careful to not create issues that were not there, especially before you actually know what you’re talking about.

In my opinion, you have a flawed perception of of when race/white privilege actually comes into play. As a black male, I can almost assure you that your rants are doing more harm than good.

First, since what you’re saying truly sounds silly.. and the people who you want to get the message brush it off as such. Second, the people who agree with you are being guided in the wrong direction, also.

And anger and confrontational tone doesn’t help either.

I’m asking you, please.. for the benefit of everyone… dont make anymore blog posts.

And yes, you know why those young black folks use the “n” word and act out on the bus and other forms of public transportation. Because they have been completely ignored and forgotten about in this so called liberal progressive city! Maybe if we treated them like real human beings and didnt take their actions and comments personally we would get somewhere!

I think it was Malcolm X who made the point that people who hold blacks to a lesser standard than others are racists.

It’s simple: people act and dress in the manner of the type of person they want others to perceive them to be. If you dress like a thug and walk and talk like a thug you will be perceived as a thug. If you don’t want to be perceived as a profane thug don’t dress and act like one.

Racism and double standards and white privilege do exist. And some stereotypes are earned by those being stereotyped.

And getting back to this essay sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sable is talking big picture, mentality of the public at-large type stuff; some people are thinking small picture, McGinn/O’Brien supporter not thinking two steps ahead type stuff.

@Emerald, “this entire post is basically a guilt by association smear job.” Yes, but not on the McGinn campaign. On the culture and racial double standard of the public at-large.

Sable is talking big picture, mentality of the public at-large type stuff; some people are thinking small picture, McGinn/O’Brien supporter not thinking two steps ahead type stuff.

@63 Are you saying that myself and dozens upon dozens of other people mass-hallucinated our conversations on the Bobby Forch topic? Or does eyewitness testimony not hold water with you? You sound like the kid who got picked last at recess. Just because you weren’t part of the discussion doesn’t mean we require a stenographer’s transcript to prove it happened.

@68 Such a waste of your time that you chose to spend additional time and become the 68th commenter? We’re approaching the record for comments on a Publicola post. I think it’s 77, but I could be wrong.

@ Timothy and Still waiting, are you surprised none of the community activists, political professionals, candidates or their staff, or elected officials will go on record saying they laughed at Cindi Laws? That sounds naive.

And yes, you know why those young black folks use the “n” word and act out on the bus and other forms of public transportation. Because they have been completely ignored and forgotten about in this so called liberal progressive city! Maybe if we treated them like real human beings and didnt take their actions and comments personally we would get somewhere!

I think it was Malcolm X who made the point that people who hold blacks to a lesser standard than others are racists.

It’s simple: people act and dress in the manner of the type of person they want others to perceive them to be. If you dress like a thug and walk and talk like a thug you will be perceived as a thug. If you don’t want to be perceived as a profane thug don’t dress and act like one.

Racism and double standards and white privilege do exist. And some stereotypes are earned by those being stereotyped.

And getting back to this essay sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sable is talking big picture, mentality of the public at-large type stuff; some people are thinking small picture, McGinn/O’Brien supporter not thinking two steps ahead type stuff.

@Emerald, “this entire post is basically a guilt by association smear job.” Yes, but not on the McGinn campaign. On the culture and racial double standard of the public at-large.

Sable is talking big picture, mentality of the public at-large type stuff; some people are thinking small picture, McGinn/O’Brien supporter not thinking two steps ahead type stuff.

@63 Are you saying that myself and dozens upon dozens of other people mass-hallucinated our conversations on the Bobby Forch topic? Or does eyewitness testimony not hold water with you? You sound like the kid who got picked last at recess. Just because you weren’t part of the discussion doesn’t mean we require a stenographer’s transcript to prove it happened.

@68 Such a waste of your time that you chose to spend additional time and become the 68th commenter? We’re approaching the record for comments on a Publicola post. I think it’s 77, but I could be wrong.

@ Timothy and Still waiting, are you surprised none of the community activists, political professionals, candidates or their staff, or elected officials will go on record saying they laughed at Cindi Laws? That sounds naive.

I am a minority and agree that there are definitely double standards in society, which I have personally experienced. That said, I don’t think this is such a scenario.

Throwing an F-bomb at an official meeting to promote a candidate in seeking an endorsement is inappropriate and classless. (And I agree with the other folks who’ve said it’s more of a testimony about the person who said it rather than the candidate.)

Saying “Don’t fuck this up” on, say, a bumper sticker is funny. Is it a little edgier than the typical campaign material? Sure, but I welcome that.

If someone from McGinn’s camp had used the same phrase in a meeting seeking an endorsement and gotten a different response, that WOULD be a double standard (clearly). But these are two situations that differ enough that I strongly disagree with SoulNerd on this one. (But please keep raising these issues — as another minority, I’ve definitely experienced some not right treatment due explicitly to my race.)

I am a minority and agree that there are definitely double standards in society, which I have personally experienced. That said, I don’t think this is such a scenario.

Throwing an F-bomb at an official meeting to promote a candidate in seeking an endorsement is inappropriate and classless. (And I agree with the other folks who’ve said it’s more of a testimony about the person who said it rather than the candidate.)

Saying “Don’t fuck this up” on, say, a bumper sticker is funny. Is it a little edgier than the typical campaign material? Sure, but I welcome that.

If someone from McGinn’s camp had used the same phrase in a meeting seeking an endorsement and gotten a different response, that WOULD be a double standard (clearly). But these are two situations that differ enough that I strongly disagree with SoulNerd on this one. (But please keep raising these issues — as another minority, I’ve definitely experienced some not right treatment due explicitly to my race.)

WOW! I just read ALL of those comments (I usually have to stop somewhere around 20).

I’m impressed by the fact that the batshit-crazy level is very low in comparison to most anything else. I think this is a credit to Publicola and its readers.

Also a credit to Publicola: trying to bring some diversity to the table, which is pretty lacking in Seattle politics.

However… SoulNerd…. next time try coming up with something …. real? There must be a whole host of other things you could talk about.

ps: I think this story may have been tweeted and am just shy of “wonk enough to go check”.

WOW! I just read ALL of those comments (I usually have to stop somewhere around 20).

I’m impressed by the fact that the batshit-crazy level is very low in comparison to most anything else. I think this is a credit to Publicola and its readers.

Also a credit to Publicola: trying to bring some diversity to the table, which is pretty lacking in Seattle politics.

However… SoulNerd…. next time try coming up with something …. real? There must be a whole host of other things you could talk about.

ps: I think this story may have been tweeted and am just shy of “wonk enough to go check”.

I read Soulnerd’s post to be an observation about how white privilege works. It is clear that this poster will not tarnish McGinn’s reputation. It is not a big deal for a liberal white guy to toss around the f-word, or for it to show up on a political poster. It is not a big deal for a candidate like McGinn to appear a little shaggy, a little messy, perhaps a tad too casual. I was looking at Bobby Forch at a tedious party last night, and admired his impeccable grooming and attire. Three piece suit,tie, perfect hair cut. He looked great, as usual. Very sharp. And he looked WAY too warm. Uncomfortably warm, in the poorly ventilated west side of Twist.
But he would not have shown up at such an event in anything less formal, it just wouldn’t happen.
I have observed that most black people in the public eye, particularly people from Bobby’s generation, hold themselves to a very high standard of style, grooming and comportment. White people, not just white politicians, have the privilege of dressing and behaving far more casually than black people,and endure far less scrutiny and are less often eyed with suspicion for being sloppy with dress, behavior or vocabulary.

I read Soulnerd’s post to be an observation about how white privilege works. It is clear that this poster will not tarnish McGinn’s reputation. It is not a big deal for a liberal white guy to toss around the f-word, or for it to show up on a political poster. It is not a big deal for a candidate like McGinn to appear a little shaggy, a little messy, perhaps a tad too casual. I was looking at Bobby Forch at a tedious party last night, and admired his impeccable grooming and attire. Three piece suit,tie, perfect hair cut. He looked great, as usual. Very sharp. And he looked WAY too warm. Uncomfortably warm, in the poorly ventilated west side of Twist.
But he would not have shown up at such an event in anything less formal, it just wouldn’t happen.
I have observed that most black people in the public eye, particularly people from Bobby’s generation, hold themselves to a very high standard of style, grooming and comportment. White people, not just white politicians, have the privilege of dressing and behaving far more casually than black people,and endure far less scrutiny and are less often eyed with suspicion for being sloppy with dress, behavior or vocabulary.

I think that this ties the record.

And this breaks it!

I think that this ties the record.

And this breaks it!

77. I think that this ties the record. 78. And this breaks it!

windbag assisted

77. I think that this ties the record. 78. And this breaks it!

windbag assisted

round it off at 80

round it off at 80

Hmm. I’m not sure if this mistaken insistence and intent for creating an illusion to some kind of “double standard” or for creating the reality that McGinn or his (white?) followers were, “taking advantage of their White privilege” is the smartest call..

Now, where’s that kid who got eaten by the wolf, let’s see if he has an opinion on this point…

Hmm. I’m not sure if this mistaken insistence and intent for creating an illusion to some kind of “double standard” or for creating the reality that McGinn or his (white?) followers were, “taking advantage of their White privilege” is the smartest call..

Now, where’s that kid who got eaten by the wolf, let’s see if he has an opinion on this point…

What a waste of server space.

What a waste of server space.

I don’t know anything about this controversy. That said…

I liked Bobby Forch’s stump speech to the 46 LD Dems. A lot of people were impressed.

I hope Forch runs for office again. I like who he is and what he’s about.

He, and other new candidates, need to recognize that many endorsements and support are locked up long before the endorsement meeting(s).

To his credit, I’m told that Forch has mingled at other 46 LD functions; the effort was noticed and appreciated.

I don’t know anything about this controversy. That said…

I liked Bobby Forch’s stump speech to the 46 LD Dems. A lot of people were impressed.

I hope Forch runs for office again. I like who he is and what he’s about.

He, and other new candidates, need to recognize that many endorsements and support are locked up long before the endorsement meeting(s).

To his credit, I’m told that Forch has mingled at other 46 LD functions; the effort was noticed and appreciated.

@ Ian @ 74:

@Emerald, “this entire post is basically a guilt by association smear job.” Yes, but not on the McGinn campaign. On the culture and racial double standard of the public at-large.

Sable is talking big picture, mentality of the public at-large type stuff; some people are thinking small picture, McGinn/O’Brien supporter not thinking two steps ahead type stuff.

Here’s my response: Did you actually read the post? I’ll quote for you because, based on your response, I doubt that you have read it:

I’m calling out the McGinn campaign for taking advantage of their White privilege.

…

In the midst of the mildly drunken revelry, one of PubliCola’s ElectionNerds pulls out his super cool phone and shows me the picture of McGinn you see here—created and posted by the McGinn camp or a McGinn supporter. Either way, it was shown at his event for all to see, and no one from his camp acted to pull it down.

…

Were ya’ll McGinners so twisted (that’s hoodspeak for “drunk”) that you really thought no one else would take a critical look at that?

Why is it okay for the McGinn camp to do that?

…

He should apologize for it.

…

So, Mr. McGinn … Here I am.

Ian, try a little bit harder next time when defending crap like this.

@ Ian @ 74:

@Emerald, “this entire post is basically a guilt by association smear job.” Yes, but not on the McGinn campaign. On the culture and racial double standard of the public at-large.

Sable is talking big picture, mentality of the public at-large type stuff; some people are thinking small picture, McGinn/O’Brien supporter not thinking two steps ahead type stuff.

Here’s my response: Did you actually read the post? I’ll quote for you because, based on your response, I doubt that you have read it:

I’m calling out the McGinn campaign for taking advantage of their White privilege.

…

In the midst of the mildly drunken revelry, one of PubliCola’s ElectionNerds pulls out his super cool phone and shows me the picture of McGinn you see here—created and posted by the McGinn camp or a McGinn supporter. Either way, it was shown at his event for all to see, and no one from his camp acted to pull it down.

…

Were ya’ll McGinners so twisted (that’s hoodspeak for “drunk”) that you really thought no one else would take a critical look at that?

Why is it okay for the McGinn camp to do that?

…

He should apologize for it.

…

So, Mr. McGinn … Here I am.

Ian, try a little bit harder next time when defending crap like this.

@82

Do you mean like, say, comment #82?

@82

Do you mean like, say, comment #82?

@84 You’re cherry-picking quotes. I could do the same. You’re missing the two-pronged argument in the article. Don’t dismiss half of SoulNerd’s post to feed your misplaced outrage.

@84 You’re cherry-picking quotes. I could do the same. You’re missing the two-pronged argument in the article. Don’t dismiss half of SoulNerd’s post to feed your misplaced outrage.

Ian,

You could do the same, but don’t, curiously. The second part of the two-pronged argument you claim is just you and other commenters bravely connecting dots that SoulNerd scatters around haphazardly, thereby constructing an argument with no basis on the facts of this situation.

I’m sure there’s a meaningful commentary on white privilege somewhere — it’s most definitely not here. This post is utter nonsense.

Cheers, Emerald

Ian,

You could do the same, but don’t, curiously. The second part of the two-pronged argument you claim is just you and other commenters bravely connecting dots that SoulNerd scatters around haphazardly, thereby constructing an argument with no basis on the facts of this situation.

I’m sure there’s a meaningful commentary on white privilege somewhere — it’s most definitely not here. This post is utter nonsense.

Cheers, Emerald

Sable – I thought you were a David Miller supporter?