Ouch

Hmmmmm. Well, Holmes did out perform Carr in the donations category.

This is a pretty important race – our strategy for prosecuting low-level misdemeanors and demanding that non-violent offenders get jail time is one of the reasons why were stuck on this jail issue. I don’t think we are really the kind of city that intended to end up building jails and closing schools. Sure wish we could get some real transparency and real dialogue going on our puritanical prosecutions.

Hmmmmm. Well, Holmes did out perform Carr in the donations category.

This is a pretty important race – our strategy for prosecuting low-level misdemeanors and demanding that non-violent offenders get jail time is one of the reasons why were stuck on this jail issue. I don’t think we are really the kind of city that intended to end up building jails and closing schools. Sure wish we could get some real transparency and real dialogue going on our puritanical prosecutions.

Interesting claim that the office is the 3rd-highest elected legal official. I assume numbers 1 & 2 are the AG and the King County Prosecutor. But my guess is that the prosecutors in other large counties (who handle felonies, as opposed to the City Attorney, who doesn’t) would take issue with that claim. Not to mention the elected Supreme Court Justices.

Interesting claim that the office is the 3rd-highest elected legal official. I assume numbers 1 & 2 are the AG and the King County Prosecutor. But my guess is that the prosecutors in other large counties (who handle felonies, as opposed to the City Attorney, who doesn’t) would take issue with that claim. Not to mention the elected Supreme Court Justices.

Gidge is right — there are two counties other than King that are larger than the city of Seattle, and one could argue that any prosecuting attorney job is more significant than any city attorney job. Prosecuting attorneys prosecute every type of offense, from parking tickets to capital murder. City attorneys only prosecute misdemeanors, an important job, but not the same thing as being responsible for prosecuting serious felonies.

I’d also note that Pflaumer’s endorsement is hardly an “ouch.” All she said is that Carr has more experience as a prosecutor (true) and that in her opinion the job requires prosecutorial experience (her opinion). Nothing negative about Holmes.

I have to disagree Scott.
Gidge is focusing on a gotchya that isn’t really relevant. What’s Gidge’s point? That Pflaumer’s bar should be lower for the job and so Holmes is actually qualified? Not a stunning defense. The fact remains—whether Pflaumer’s quote is hyperbole or not—she thinks the incumbent is better than her former colleague.

Sure her quote doesn’t attack Holmes, but did it need to? A centerpiece of Holmes’ campaign is that Carr did not take OPARB’s work seriously, and here—his former colleague from OPARB is endorsing Carr. I repeat: Ouch.

I have to disagree Scott.
Gidge is focusing on a gotchya that isn’t really relevant. What’s Gidge’s point? That Pflaumer’s bar should be lower for the job and so Holmes is actually qualified? Not a stunning defense. The fact remains—whether Pflaumer’s quote is hyperbole or not—she thinks the incumbent is better than her former colleague.

Sure her quote doesn’t attack Holmes, but did it need to? A centerpiece of Holmes’ campaign is that Carr did not take OPARB’s work seriously, and here—his former colleague from OPARB is endorsing Carr. I repeat: Ouch.

Hey, Josh!

@4

Are you reporting news or are you making it?

I had a few journalism classes, and may not understand the rules, but real news is news – not opinion. Eh?

Brandmarks are pretty important, and it is highly possible that I have misunderstood Publicolas brand. Would you care to articulate?

Hey, Josh!

@4

Are you reporting news or are you making it?

I had a few journalism classes, and may not understand the rules, but real news is news – not opinion. Eh?

Brandmarks are pretty important, and it is highly possible that I have misunderstood Publicolas brand. Would you care to articulate?

I think it’s necessary to clarify the difference between the OPA Director and the OPA Review Board. The OPA Director is a full time, salaried city employee, whereas the OPA Review Board is picked from the citizenry to represent the citizenry, and paid only a small monthly stipend, even though the time commitment was significant. Mr. Holmes’ stance is that Carr did not take the OPA Review Board seriously, even though they were supposed to be the citizen’s arm of the police oversight process. This stance is consistent with Pete Holmes’ campaign message of a City Attorney that puts the citizen’s interests first like a responsible elected official.

As for Ms. Pflaumer’s statement on the size of the City Attorney’s office, it is straight out of Carr’s stump speech which he has been using since before she endorsed him. Though I do agree with it, the Seattle City Attorney’s Office is incredibly important, and this race deserves more attention.

I think it’s necessary to clarify the difference between the OPA Director and the OPA Review Board. The OPA Director is a full time, salaried city employee, whereas the OPA Review Board is picked from the citizenry to represent the citizenry, and paid only a small monthly stipend, even though the time commitment was significant. Mr. Holmes’ stance is that Carr did not take the OPA Review Board seriously, even though they were supposed to be the citizen’s arm of the police oversight process. This stance is consistent with Pete Holmes’ campaign message of a City Attorney that puts the citizen’s interests first like a responsible elected official.

As for Ms. Pflaumer’s statement on the size of the City Attorney’s office, it is straight out of Carr’s stump speech which he has been using since before she endorsed him. Though I do agree with it, the Seattle City Attorney’s Office is incredibly important, and this race deserves more attention.

BikeChick,

I think there’s room for both just-the-facts-ma’am reporting and opinion at PubliCola. (By the way, it’s not clear to me if you’re flummoxed by my original post or by my comment.)

I do think Pflaumer and Carroll’s Carr endorsements are packed with meaning, and I think it was helpful to give the readers that context.

The debate about Objectivity vs. Subjectivity is an ongoing discussion in journalism.

I like the debate, but I’m not hung up on what constitutes “real news.” For example, so what if your journalism prof decides it’s not “real news” to explain the significance of Pflaumer’s endorsement.

Even if it’s not “real news,” it’s still a problem for Holmes’ campaign. And I think people read PubliCola because they want the skinny on local politics.

BikeChick,

I think there’s room for both just-the-facts-ma’am reporting and opinion at PubliCola. (By the way, it’s not clear to me if you’re flummoxed by my original post or by my comment.)

I do think Pflaumer and Carroll’s Carr endorsements are packed with meaning, and I think it was helpful to give the readers that context.

The debate about Objectivity vs. Subjectivity is an ongoing discussion in journalism.

I like the debate, but I’m not hung up on what constitutes “real news.” For example, so what if your journalism prof decides it’s not “real news” to explain the significance of Pflaumer’s endorsement.

Even if it’s not “real news,” it’s still a problem for Holmes’ campaign. And I think people read PubliCola because they want the skinny on local politics.

@7

Josh,

I like the debate, too. And I’d like to see more about the actual issues in this race. This and the port race are actually very important and undercovered.

As far as Pflaumer is concerned, somebody pointed out above that the Director is a paid position. Which means it’s on her resume. It’s clear that having the ability to get your next job, based on recommendations is pretty important.

Another question to ponder is when did the endorsements happen (old news really) and what’s with the the timing of the press release? You didn’t cover the bit about Holmes out fundraising Carr by double. Why?

Now, the real question is: who is going to actually talk about misdemeanor prosecution that fills up our jails, busts our budget (jails instead of schools) and is the antithesis of a progressive city?

Who is going to do in-depth reporting into WHY the oversight board couldn’t get what they needed to go their job? Police accountability actually makes the police safer, in addition to the public… ..and… ..wait for it….. …saves a bunch of money in lawsuits and payouts and the like.

Yet, we are actually spending legal money to make transparency harder. From the attorney client changes to the the Sunshine gig.

Not flummoxed, btw, just think that there’s substantive issues to cover and that’s good for public discourse.

The gotcha’s ginned up by the opposition that we race to post keep us so busy that it’s easy to lose focus on the real important issue.

The point is: watching the horserace is fun. But a blow by blow of well-timed press releases(designed to distract) means we watch the whole race with ever learning WHY one candidate is winning and without asking WHETHER they should win.

I check Publicola daily, if not more. There’s a place for the “early news”. I like it and I value it. However, when even an outsider like me can figure out that the endorsements have been on websites for a while, I question the rush to publish over the quality of the reporting.

Just sayin’.

@7

Josh,

I like the debate, too. And I’d like to see more about the actual issues in this race. This and the port race are actually very important and undercovered.

As far as Pflaumer is concerned, somebody pointed out above that the Director is a paid position. Which means it’s on her resume. It’s clear that having the ability to get your next job, based on recommendations is pretty important.

Another question to ponder is when did the endorsements happen (old news really) and what’s with the the timing of the press release? You didn’t cover the bit about Holmes out fundraising Carr by double. Why?

Now, the real question is: who is going to actually talk about misdemeanor prosecution that fills up our jails, busts our budget (jails instead of schools) and is the antithesis of a progressive city?

Who is going to do in-depth reporting into WHY the oversight board couldn’t get what they needed to go their job? Police accountability actually makes the police safer, in addition to the public… ..and… ..wait for it….. …saves a bunch of money in lawsuits and payouts and the like.

Yet, we are actually spending legal money to make transparency harder. From the attorney client changes to the the Sunshine gig.

Not flummoxed, btw, just think that there’s substantive issues to cover and that’s good for public discourse.

The gotcha’s ginned up by the opposition that we race to post keep us so busy that it’s easy to lose focus on the real important issue.

The point is: watching the horserace is fun. But a blow by blow of well-timed press releases(designed to distract) means we watch the whole race with ever learning WHY one candidate is winning and without asking WHETHER they should win.

I check Publicola daily, if not more. There’s a place for the “early news”. I like it and I value it. However, when even an outsider like me can figure out that the endorsements have been on websites for a while, I question the rush to publish over the quality of the reporting.

Just sayin’.

Based on the principle of experience, incumbents would always win and never be accountable for their performance.

Anyway I’m not so worried about this. Now if Shelly Seacrest endorsed Carr, that would not be good.

Based on the principle of experience, incumbents would always win and never be accountable for their performance.

Anyway I’m not so worried about this. Now if Shelly Seacrest endorsed Carr, that would not be good.

@Trevor

Spot on.

Here’s a refresher in case anyone needs to catch up on your Seacrest reference:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/8400932.html

Recent radio interview; http://kbcs.fm/site/PageServer?pagename=oneworldreport_20080612

Patterson article http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=237677

Affidavid on the Patterson video http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/05/09/2003699735.pdf

@Trevor

Spot on.

Here’s a refresher in case anyone needs to catch up on your Seacrest reference:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/8400932.html

Recent radio interview; http://kbcs.fm/site/PageServer?pagename=oneworldreport_20080612

Patterson article http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=237677

Affidavid on the Patterson video http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/05/09/2003699735.pdf

@trevor

{{Based on the principle of experience, incumbents would always win and never be accountable for their performance.}}

True, especially relevant here as Carr had only a brief stint with prosecutorial experience that was over a decade old when he took office. Specifically RICO, mob stuff. Do we have much of that here?

He was a “commercial attorney” then.

@trevor

{{Based on the principle of experience, incumbents would always win and never be accountable for their performance.}}

True, especially relevant here as Carr had only a brief stint with prosecutorial experience that was over a decade old when he took office. Specifically RICO, mob stuff. Do we have much of that here?

He was a “commercial attorney” then.

Josh,
You’re right that my comment wasn’t really relevant to the debate. I just made it when I was in a particularly snarky mood. I’m pretty sure that I’m not the only commenter to post a somewhat off-topic comment on a blog.

I don’t think that Pflaumer’s bar should be lowered and I agree that the endorsement is an interesting development. To be honest, I’m not thrilled about either candidate right now, and my comment wasn’t meant to support or undercut Pflaumer’s endorsement. Pflaumer’s characterization of the office does over-inflate the importance of the Seattle City Attorney, although it is still certainly an important office and we should expect just as much out of that office.

It is important, however, for people to realize what the City Attorney’s office does, and where our money goes. I would like to see someone with more criminal law experience enter the race to shine a light on some of the draconian approaches Carr’s had to crimes like marijuana possession and enforcing night club cases.

Josh,
You’re right that my comment wasn’t really relevant to the debate. I just made it when I was in a particularly snarky mood. I’m pretty sure that I’m not the only commenter to post a somewhat off-topic comment on a blog.

I don’t think that Pflaumer’s bar should be lowered and I agree that the endorsement is an interesting development. To be honest, I’m not thrilled about either candidate right now, and my comment wasn’t meant to support or undercut Pflaumer’s endorsement. Pflaumer’s characterization of the office does over-inflate the importance of the Seattle City Attorney, although it is still certainly an important office and we should expect just as much out of that office.

It is important, however, for people to realize what the City Attorney’s office does, and where our money goes. I would like to see someone with more criminal law experience enter the race to shine a light on some of the draconian approaches Carr’s had to crimes like marijuana possession and enforcing night club cases.

Gidge is right — there are two counties other than King that are larger than the city of Seattle, and one could argue that any prosecuting attorney job is more significant than any city attorney job. Prosecuting attorneys prosecute every type of offense, from parking tickets to capital murder. City attorneys only prosecute misdemeanors, an important job, but not the same thing as being responsible for prosecuting serious felonies.

I'd also note that Pflaumer's endorsement is hardly an “ouch.” All she said is that Carr has more experience as a prosecutor (true) and that in her opinion the job requires prosecutorial experience (her opinion). Nothing negative about Holmes.